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About a Jugdral remake...


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16 minutes ago, Ignominious Defeat said:

I mean, Julius is haughty and childish, yes, but he is also Loptyr at this point. There's essentially no reason for him to spare Julia; he's the one that knows the threat Heim's bloodline can pose, as opposed to Manfroy who obviously sees the blue-haired boy reconquering the continent as the far bigger threat. In addition, to spare Julia without drawing the Dark Warlords' ire, one has to take the long way around to Velthomer, while Julia's both endangering herself and others, then take on three mages with Hel and Manfroy's Fenrir. He probably considered it unlikely one would even reach him before Julia died or caused serious damage; on the other hand, Loptyr had the privilege of being personally destroyed by Heim. It's mentioned in chapter 10 how Julius considers Heim's blood more of a threat than Seliph also iirc, so it's not entirely out of the blue. He's less of a brat in this game than Thracia, too, so it's not as inconsistent as it seems, at least within Genealogy. 

No, it's not inconsistent with Julius to want to see Julia dead, but it is very inconsistent for Manfroy. Throughout the game Manfroy has been an extremely shrewd and master manipulator. He has proven himself careful not to overextend himself nor act to hasty in seizing victory. Then, at the very end of the game, he makes this one massive blunder. Sure, it seems unlikely Seliph could have freed Julia, but it's still a possibility, so long as Naga blood exists, Loptyr can be killed, and Loptyr knows this, and, most importantly, he tells this to Manfroy and tries to kill Julia. Manfroy stops him, and Julius conditions him about keeping her alive (but proceeds to let him anyway, so even in the finished game Loptyr's dogmatic hatred of all things Naga isn't enough for him to actually kill her then and there). It's arrogant and foolish, and while Manfroy is definitely a monster, he has never shown himself to be arrogant. He goes against the caution of the guy he literally worships and gets completely screwed for it.

Now if the roles are reversed, we keep a shrewd and careful Manfroy, and also one that is remaining loyal to Loptyr by acting according to his strict instructions. While on Loptyr's side, we keep the Naga hatred (as enslaving her would be a great humiliation), keep something of the bratty personality (which while exasperated in subsequent materials, was still present in the original) and the sadistic pettyness that his at the core of Loptyr's character (as the whole reason he's doing this empire thing is that he just hates humans super hard, there's no tangible  benefit to him doing it).

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That's fair, but personally I see Manfroy as being far more concerned with Seliph, as per Chapter 10 after conquering Chronos and Rados:
 

Quote

Yurius:
“Hmph… Yeah, Diadora just sort of accepted the idea of being killed by her own son. But she did manage to muster enough power to save Yuria before I could finish her off. Yuria inherited the power of Lord Narga from Deirdre, not I. That’s why we must kill her… while we have the chance.”

Manfroy:
“But the Book of Narga is sealed up at Barhara… I cannot envision Lord Narga somehow residing within the girl, as well.”

Yurius:
“You just don’t get it, do you… The incarnate of Narga flows within the Heim’s royal blood. We must wipe every last one of them from the planet!”

Manfroy:
“Alright, then. I’ll have her executed at once, Your Highness.”

Yurius:
“Don’t you slip up, Manfroy. Alright, I need to head back to Barhara.”

Manfroy:
“I’ll place the entire sect behind holding the region. And I’ll see to it that we bring before you the corpse of Celice.”

Yurius:
“Celice… People refer to him as the Prince of Light…. and me the Prince of Darkness. They believe we both share the same mother somehow and that he is first in the line of succession to Grandbell’s throne! Only a fool would believe such nonsense.”

Manfroy:
“The consequences would be disastrous if he were allowed to live. We must kill him!”

Yurius:
“Yeah, well, he only inherits the power of Crusader Baldo… I’m not all too concerned about him, but you do as you please.”

Manfroy:
“Yes…”

Manfroy also doesn't realize that Julia has the key to unlocking the Book of Naga; for all he knows, it's impossible to recover even if things were to go as horribly wrong for him as they do in the game (what with him being killed and Julia living.) Without knowing that the circlet is the key, it might seem to him that Loptyr's reasonable caution (in our eyes) is simply paranoia, while ignoring what Manfroy perceives as the real threat; Seliph's ever-greater encroachment on the empire. (Remember, pre-Epilogue, the other Empire-controlled countries successfully rebelled, leaving only the majority of Grannvale under its control.) Under these circumstances, Manfroy's faith in Julius's judgment might be slightly shaken; however much he worships him, he can't deny that Seliph charging into Belhalla's general vicinity at the head of an army of holy warriors is a fair bit more troublesome than Julius apparently considers it to be.

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48 minutes ago, Ignominious Defeat said:

That's fair, but personally I see Manfroy as being far more concerned with Seliph, as per Chapter 10 after conquering Chronos and Rados:
 

Manfroy also doesn't realize that Julia has the key to unlocking the Book of Naga; for all he knows, it's impossible to recover even if things were to go as horribly wrong for him as they do in the game (what with him being killed and Julia living.) Without knowing that the circlet is the key, it might seem to him that Loptyr's reasonable caution (in our eyes) is simply paranoia, while ignoring what Manfroy perceives as the real threat; Seliph's ever-greater encroachment on the empire. (Remember, pre-Epilogue, the other Empire-controlled countries successfully rebelled, leaving only the majority of Grannvale under its control.) Under these circumstances, Manfroy's faith in Julius's judgment might be slightly shaken; however much he worships him, he can't deny that Seliph charging into Belhalla's general vicinity at the head of an army of holy warriors is a fair bit more troublesome than Julius apparently considers it to be.

One way or the other it comes down to the fact that keeping Julia alive is an arrogant move, and arrogance is not a trait of Manfroy (he's a smug bastard, but not arrogant) while it is a trait of Julis/Loptyr (he puts himself on the battlefield I'm Chapter 10 for no reason other than amusement). Even subsequent materials hold true to this with Manfroy being the one who wants to kill Cyas and not willing to see the city of Tara go unpunished in fear of what it might inspire others to do.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

One way or the other it comes down to the fact that keeping Julia alive is an arrogant move, and arrogance is not a trait of Manfroy (he's a smug bastard, but not arrogant) while it is a trait of Julis/Loptyr (he puts himself on the battlefield I'm Chapter 10 for no reason other than amusement). Even subsequent materials hold true to this with Manfroy being the one who wants to kill Cyas and not willing to see the city of Tara go unpunished in fear of what it might inspire others to do.

It's certainly out of character for Manfroy to do, yes. Thing is, it's also out of character for Julius; it's essentially a catch-22 created by Seliph's army being written into a corner due to Julia's kidnapping. Both, for different reasons, have strong motivations to have Julia dead; but in the end, the game has to be beatable if you don't have Seliph with a power ring, and writing either one of the two to make a slip-up like that has little story justification. In a remake, I'd like to possibly see more doubt expressed by Manfroy in Julius's judgment, especially towards the final chapter; that might provide the necessary motivation to keep Julia alive and brainwashed, as opposed to it coming out of nowhere in original Genealogy. (Of course, this would have to happen outside of Julius's presence; but since the FE4 villains love their monologues in the first place, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.)

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On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

First, the story, characters, script, and everything related. I really hope that they do not make many changes to the stories, including the details such as incest and child hunts mentioned. While some of these things could be altered without too large of an effect on the overall story, they still contributed to the mood or atmosphere of the story.

Well, that's true. It was because of these darker tones that I liked FE4 so much. Maybe they will keep them, as @Jotari mentioned, albeit without giving much of a hint about it.

On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

I also think that they will likely add in supports, which would help flesh out many characters and would be a nice addition to the love system already present. There are already quite a lot of character conversations with the chapters, but support conversations would really be nice, and seeing characters slowly grow closer through conversations would be quite an improvement to the love system that doesn't have much effect out of gameplay. 

Since Gaiden has them or some form of it, and because I think this remake would need them precisely because of the love system, I don't doubt there will be :lol:

On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

I don't think they'll make any major changes to the soundtrack, just increase the quality, maybe add some complexity or instruments here and there. 

I need that recruitment theeeme...!

On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

For example, to decrease the length of enemy phases, they could incorporate buttons to speed up or even skip the enemy phase like in other games, and/or implement a way for legions to move all at once. For instance, imagine a legion of 10+ dracoknights (or anything else) making a direct path for the player's units. Normally, you'd have to watch each individual unit move in the exact same path to get closer to your army. However, what if all the units in the legion could just all move as one legion, just all moving at once? I think ideas such as these would work well and could fix many issues without actually changing much or creating more issues.

Good idea, although I'm not sure about how it is for people in general who disliked the larger maps, but what a friend of mine hated about it was not how slow the dynamic of the units was or how many enemies were there, but simply the stress of having to do too much in a single chapter. I particulaly liked that, but well.

On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

Some people disliked the absence of a trading mechanic, however, including one would honestly break the game and devalue the usefulness of gold, inciting even more changes to fix the many new problems that that solution would create. I suppose there may be a way to make a trade mechanic work well, but I think the remake should stay without one; I think it simply makes more sense and does the game good leaving one out.

I think (or maybe just hope, haha) they'll leave it as is; improved or whatever but leave it there. Since it's a strategy game, I don't think it wrong to leave a mechanic that makes us strategize more, that's supposed to be what's fun about these games.

On 03/07/2018 at 1:50 AM, stevenpaul256 said:

I am also very against adding an avatar, no matter how relevant to the story, even if it were like Mark, because it simply would not fit into the story at all, and would only hinder it, in my opinion. Also, what impactful purpose would it serve to the gameplay, story, or anything at all?

The avatar is not needed at all, just a lot of fun! In my opinion, anyways :P: that's why I would like it.

Thank you for writing your expectations with that much detail, it was a very interesting read :lol: if you remember something else you'd like to share, I'd love to know!

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