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The DanMan

You're in charge of a Smash reboot and can only pick 20 fighters: who do you go with?

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In his Famitsu column that was published right after E3, Sakurai made mention of the choice they faced when it came to Ultimate: "We had a choice between completely overhauling the game systems and feel, or working off of what they had established in the last game, we ended up going with the latter. If we had gone with the former the roster would probably end up being ⅓ the size."

Coupled with certain statements made during Smash 4's pre-release ("we're at the upper limit of what's feasible" and "a change in direction may be needed"), I think it's fairly obvious that a Smash reboot of some kind has been considered and is an eventuality.

So, which 20 characters (about 1/3 of Smash 4's roster) would you pick to come back?

Please, try to not to be too biased and, more importantly, don't get too worked up over it. I personally think this is an interesting topic that could bring about interesting comparisons and discussion, but that because it involves Smash and character cuts I'm not so dumb to think that it will go perfectly smoothly. 

Anyways, here's what I've got as my picks:


1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Yoshi
4. Peach
5. Bowser
6. Link
7. Zelda
8. Ganondorf
9. Donkey Kong
10. Pac-Man
11. Kirby
12. Fox
13. Samus
14. Ridley
15. Pikachu
16. Lucario
17. Greninja
18. Marth
19. Villager
20. Inkling

>Retro characters have been eliminated entirely
>Captain Falcon, Kid Icarus, and Earthbound are gone entirely, due to nicheness and lack of current relevance (Sakurai himself said he had no plans for KI after Uprising, and the lack of news on any sort of follow-up over half a decade later IMO pretty much renders it a dead franchise)
>Only 3rd party character is Pac-Man, due to his iconic and timeless nature
>Mario has the most characters due to its nature as Nintendo's mascot series
>If I had one more spot, I'd include Meta Knight or D3 due to the series' consistent relevance and because Kirby looks lonely by himself there, but he was the sole rep from the series for two games so a sacrifice had to be made
>Similar deal as the above with Donkey Kong
>With his popularity and Metroid's current resurgence, there was no way I wouldn't have Ridley accompanying Samus
>Pokemon is free of genwunner pandering, having the mascot and two darkhorse picks from later gens
> Marth is the only FE character due to the lack of mass appeal and overall sales/legacy of other series
>Villager is included due to Animal Crossing's mass appeal and being a very unique joke character
>Inkling because Splatoon has cemented itself as a major franchise in the less than 5 years since its reveal, almost defying logic and belief
>Xenoblade, as much as it pains me, is entirely absent due to its lacking legacy and only recent popularity with 2


This was so hard for me that I flip-flopped between making the limit 20 or 25. Honestly, if it's too hard to do 20 then by all means make it 25; if I could make it 25, Robin, DeDeDe, Shulk, Captain Falcon, and Ness would be on my list.

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I'll give this a try, since I was actually kind of annoyed by the fact that everyone's coming back, as it feels shortsighted and like an easy way out of trying something new and interesting.

I'll organize the returning characters and/or newcomers by debut game.  I may change some of these later

Returning from the original game (Count: 9):

  • Mario (Mario)
  • Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong)
  • Link (The Legend of Zelda)
  • Samus (Metroid)
  • Yoshi (Yoshi)
  • Kirby (Kirby)
  • Fox (Star Fox)
  • Pikachu (Pokémon)
  • Luigi (Mario)

Returning from Melee (Count: 5):

  • Peach (Mario)
  • Bowser (Mario)
  • Zelda (The Legend of Zelda)
  • Marth (Fire Emblem)
  • Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda)

Returning from Brawl (Count: 1):

  • King Dedede (Kirby)

Returning from for Wii U/3DS (Count: 1):

  • Mega Man (Mega Man)

Returning from Ultimate (Count: 2):

  • Inkling (Splatoon)
  • Ridley (Metroid)

Newcomers (Count: 2):

  • Simon (Castlevania)
  • Jack Frost (Megami Tensei)*
    • Placeholder until I can think of something better

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9 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I'll give this a try, since I was actually kind of annoyed by the fact that everyone's coming back, as it feels shortsighted and like an easy way out of trying something new and interesting.

I don't have the quote on me, but I seem to recall Sakurai also saying that this would be the "last chance to do this"; really, you've basically got everybody in Smash already that isn't flavor of the month/really obscure. Ultimate feels like a compilation/one last sendoff before eventually diving into something new.

Honestly, as someone who had been excited over the thought of a Smash reboot/directional shift, having a roster this truncated would definitely be a tough pill to swallow-- and with it seemingly a when, not if, it makes me greater appreciate what we've got right now.

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57 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

So, which 20 characters (about 1/3 of Smash 4's roster) would you pick to come back?

Oh hey, this looks interesting...

58 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Please, try to not to be too biased

And like that you've lost me - I'm too tired of seeing Mario characters in this series to not be biased, and then we get to Pokemon...while it's easy enough for me to knock out my personal selection of 20 Fighters, I feel like you're not trying to get our personal top 20 Roster here.

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I'm glad that they at least considered to make fundamental changes to the game.

Anyway:

1. Mario
2. Yoshi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Donkey Kong
6. Kirby
7. King Dedede
8. Link
9. Pikachu
10. Fox
11. Marth
12. Inkling
13. Samus
14. Pit
15. Captain Falcon
16. Little Mac
17. Ness
18. Mewtwo
19. Villager
20. Wario / Megaman

I didn't really want to take it for granted that a guest character will make it in, which is why Wario and Megaman share the same spot.

Mario, Yoshi, Peach and Bowser. That's a lot of Mario but they are all quite distinct from each other. Not really talking about their fighting style, more like what kind of characters they are, what kind of energy they express, that kind of thing. It's also why I don't want to give franchises from cartoonish settings several representatives. They tend to feel relatively similar compared to using a character from an entirely different franchise.

Dedede comes along because he is a happy penguin with a giant hammer. Might sound like a silly reason but the point is that he has a very unique feel to him.

Captain Falcon, Ness, Little Mac and Pit stick around. I really don't see why it should in any way matter if their franchises were "dead". And Captain Falcon in particular is basically Smash's mascot.

 

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1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Yoshi
4. Peach
5. Bowser
6. Link
7. Zelda
8. Ganondorf
9. Donkey Kong
10. Sonic
11. Kirby
12. Fox
13. Samus
14. Captain Falcon
15. Pikachu
16. Lucario
17. Charizard
18. Marth
19. Falco
20. Inkling

I agreed with most of your choices but the bolded ones I've changed. 
 

Edited by Icelerate

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3 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

And like that you've lost me - I'm too tired of seeing Mario characters in this series to not be biased, and then we get to Pokemon...while it's easy enough for me to knock out my personal selection of 20 Fighters, I feel like you're not trying to get our personal top 20 Roster here.

I mean, you can choose who you want to an extent, but I'm also trying to keep things realistic here. Though really, I can't stop you from just doing what you want.

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20 Character reboot huh...This is what I would go with.

  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Bowser
  4. Yoshi
  5. DK
  6. Link
  7. Ganondorf
  8. Pikachu
  9. Mewtwo
  10. Lucario
  11. Samus
  12. Fox
  13. Marth
  14. Kirby
  15. Ness
  16. Captain Falcon
  17. Pit
  18. Shulk
  19. Villager
  20. Inklings

If it was twenty-five then Little Mac, Peach, Zelda, Robin, and another Kirby rep (either Meta Knight or King Dedede) would get added as well.

I excluded 3rd party characters because they would eat up too many limited slots.

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This is really hard, but also a good way to get thinking! I'm gonna use the upper limit of 25, and I think my 25 would be:

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Yoshi
5. Bowser
6. Donkey Kong
7. Link
8. Zelda
9. Ganondorf
10. Kirby
11. King Dedede
12. Pikachu
13. Fox
14. Samus
15. Captain Falcon
16. Ness
17. Ice Climbers
18. Duck Hunt
19. Marth
20. Lyn
21. Olimar
22. Villager
23. Inkling
24. Pit
25. Little Mac

There are no third-party characters, I feel like they'd want to focus solely on Nintendo in this case. Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Fire Emblem are the only series with multiple characters, and the only biased choice is Lyn. I've been wanting her for 10 years, dang it! Just add her already! If I hadn't chosen her, though, I'd have chosen either Mewtwo or Wario.

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On 6/25/2018 at 8:20 PM, The DanMan said:

Though really, I can't stop you from just doing what you want.

While that's true, I'd rather try to stay within the guidelines you suggested out of respect for you and your Topic. I guess I'll go ahead and put up a more realistic list but then follow with my own selections...

More Realistic:

Spoiler
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Peach
  • Yoshi
  • DK
  • Pikachu
  • Jigglypuff
  • Fox
  • Samus
  • Ridley
  • Ness
  • Kirby
  • Captain Falcon
  • Link
  • Zelda/Shiek
  • Marth
  • Robin
  • Mega Man
  • Pac-Man
  • Inklings

This is effectively the OG Smash Roster(since a fair majority of the fanbase explodes whenever you suggest removing one of the original 12) featuring 8 guest stars. Peach is included to pad the Mario Roster out since it is Mario after all(though I think a quarter of the roster is absolutely ridiculous for one franchise because let's be real, Yoshi and DK were Mario characters first). Ridley appears due to the ridiculous backlash they would receive if he were a one-game shot, plus to give Metroid the much-needed representation. Zelda is included because Link and Zelda go together, that's just how it works now, and I recombined Shiek with Zelda because to be realistic that's the only way Zelda will ever be a good character. Fire Emblem has become its own fairly competent franchise, meaning Marth snags a spot, and I chose to add Robin due to Awakening's fair amount of popularity and Robin's relative unique moveset. While I can't stand anything Splatoon-related in general, I must acknowledge that the games are very popular, even if I think that's weird, so Inklings. Mega Man and Pac-Man are included because one of the major things Sakurai stressed he was excited about in Sm4sh was that you could have them and Mario all together in one game, but other than that 3rd-Party characters have been trimmed as relative excess fat.

Personal Selections(Keep comments telling me I'm an idiot to yourself or to PMs):

Spoiler
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Pichu
  • Zelda
  • Ganondorf
  • Samus
  • Weavel
  • Ridley
  • Mega Man
  • Zero
  • Roy
  • Ike
  • Robin
  • Ryu
  • Jin Kazama
  • Akira
  • Palutena
  • Cloud
  • Wolf
  • Sora

Frankly, I think that a 20-man Roster with any franchise having more than three Fighters is ridiculous, kind of like how it's bullcrap that more than a fifth of Sm4sh is wasted on useless spaces like Rosalina or Koopalings. As such, the Mario lineup was butchered down to where I've felt it belonged for a while now: Just Mario and Luigi. Yes, it's an iconic franchise. Yes, he's 'Mr. Video Game himself'. But a fifth of the Roster used on Mario characters? Peach somehow suddenly able to defend herself? Bowser being...wait, he was always kind of lame as far as villains go, but the rest? That's nonsense. As for those wanting to argue in favor of Yoshi, DK, and Wario, I've never appreciated DK in this game EVER(seriously, screw the monkeys), and all three of those characters were Mario characters before they split off into their own franchises so I count them and consequently cut them in favor of alternate options.
I will admit, Pichu is nothing but bias. I have no defense. I have no arguments. PICHU FULL THROTTLE BOI
Given the choice between Zelda, Ganon, and Link, Ganon's the bad guy and Zelda has...well, I guess Sakurai fixed that in Ultimate, but sorry Link, since this is a personal choice Roster, not the realistic Roster, you're out.
Metroid could really use more reps, and I do appreciate the franchise more than it looks considering I almost never play the games, so I bumped it up to three. Samus is Samus, and until I'm proven otherwise I will continue under the assumption that Ridley is a good idea. I would really love to see the SA-X appear, but I'd also rather keep the Echo Fighters low if we're going only 20 total, and so I elected to go for one of the Hunters from Prime Hunters. While Sylux is the general go-to option for those pushing for more Metroid, I selected Weavel because he occupies an interesting position roughly halfway between the other two reps, a Bounty Hunter like Samus but a Space Pirate like Ridley. In addition - I assume most of you don't know this - Samus is the only Hunter with access to Morph Ball and Homing Missiles, meaning any other Hunter is forced to use a separate Dodge Roll, Down Special, and Side Special. Of the Hunters, Weavel's Halfturret is by far the most feasible Alt-Form to transfer into Smash, with only Spire coming close, and the Halfturret could easily be incorporated into the Up Special as well, furthering Weavel's uniqueness.
Mega Man is joined, not by his larger successor, X, but by X's own eventual semi-successor, Zero. While X could probably be transferred over easily enough, I feel he would be a bit too similar to Rock for my tastes, not to mention it would take away from Mega Legends, and thanks to his series Zero is at least as doable as X and much more unique - I actually have a potential moveset for him written on an OpenOffice doc.
With Fire Emblem, I wanted as much variety as possible and so didn't include Corrin. Given the choice between Marth, Roy, and Lucina, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who knows me that Roy took the first slot, followed by Ike 'cuz Ike's pretty sweet. I chose Robin over Corrin, but could honestly be convinced to go either way as I'm kind of neutral to both.
I really like the idea of fighting game cameos, hence Ryu, Jin, and Akira(note, though, that I kept it to three cameos in keeping with my general position on number of Fighters). The Fighters selected in particular aren't necessarily my personal choices - that would probably be Juri/Ibuki, Marshall Law, and Mei-Fang from Arcana Heart - but are there more because they're more basic characters within their own games and I am supposed to be at least partially taking other people into account here.
The next three - Cloud, Palutena, and Wolf - are Fighters who I happen to like and cover a fair spread in terms of game types, with Cloud covering RPGs, Palutena covering Shooters, and Wolf covering...Shooters? To heck with it, I like these guys, ok?
The last choice is Sora, who I could see honestly being an option for Ultimate due to KH3 being on the way, meaning Sora is pretty relevant and quite popular. There's also Smash Flash 2, so he has a fully-built Moveset already as well.

-BONUS FIVE ASSUMING LARGER CAST CHOICES-

  • Serina Leaf
  • Hitmonchan
  • Infernape
  • Custom Robo(Pick one)
  • Lloyd Irving

Ok, ok, I admit Pohatu and Lewa were mostly joking - while I have movesets for them designed, they're not my top choices. They've been replaced by picks that would probably take priority over them when it comes down to it. We'll go reverse order on this list since the last one was in order.
I don't have much of an attachment to the Tales Of series, but Lloyd is quite enjoyable in Smash Flash 2, enough to be very high on my list of potential Fighters, but not high enough to be included in a 20-Man Roster, only a 25-Man.
Custom Robo...poor, poor Custom Robo - a franchise that should have gone so much further than it did, what little mention it had in Brawl removed from Sm4sh. While any Robo could be selected, I would probably pick the Ray Series and have different Ray Models be Palette Swaps.
Frankly, I think it's odd that we're still dealing with Pikachu and Jiggs when there are so many Pokemon out there that could be much more fitting Fighters, and this definitely applies to Pokken as well - we got two Pikachu, Suicune, Braixen, and Chandelure over Infernape, Hitmonchan, and Hitmonlee? What the heck? I selected Hitmonchan over Hitmonlee due to Hitmonchan being easier to implement, since you can just make minor tweaks to Little Mac's moveset and be done, and I picked Infernape due to the interesting potential involved, plus MONKEY ON FIRE
Serina who? Much though I'll talk down about the bad decisions made with the game, I still liked Conception 2 enough to make movesets for Fuuko and Serina. Of the two, I prefer Fuuko, but I feel like Serina could be more interesting due to her kick-gun compared to Fuuko's twin pistols.

 

Edited by SoulWeaver
New Flavor: Explanation with a side of replacing Placeholder characters with my actual picks!

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  • Fox
  • Falco
  • Marth
  • Sheik
  • Jigglypuff
  • Peach
  • Ice Climbers
  • Captain Falcon
  • Pikachu
  • Samus
  • Dr.Mario
  • Yoshi
  • Luigi
  • Ganondorf
  • Mario
  • Young Link
  • Donkey Kong
  • Link
  • Mr.Game and Watch
  • Roy

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Interesting concept...

Mario series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi. All icons of video gaming. 5/20

Zelda series: Link, Zelda, Ganondorf. The core three of Nintendo's second (?) biggest franchise. 8/20

Pokemon series: Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario. The previous two are arguably the two most recognizable (as is Charizard but not everyone can make the cut!) and Lucario is in my mind the biggest post gen 1 Pokemon. 11/20

DK, Samus, Kirby, and Fox round out the iconic must haves. 15/20

Marth is definitely deserving as FE has grown in popularity quite a bit. Ness for the same reason and he serves as the retro character. 17/20

We need newer characters to round out this mostly classic roster so the last 3 spots go to Inkling, Villager, and Shulk. 20/20

If I could add 5 more, at this point in time, I'd choose Robin, Diddy, Sonic, Megaman, and Pac-Man.

Then launch the FE DLC pack with Ike, Lyn, Ephraim, Celica, and one of the FE16 protagonists 

Edited by Book Bro

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Mario

Luigi

Peach

Bowser

Link

Zelda/Sheik

Ganondorf

Pikachu

Pokemon Trainer

Mewtwo

Yoshi

DK

Fox

Kirby

Captain Falcon

Samus

Ridley

Pit

Marth

Ness

 

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I'm going to try to do this without considering any of the current Smash game rosters to this point; a full re-imagining, as though the others never existed. Let's rock:

  1. Mario - You simply can't have a Nintendo All-Stars game without Mr. Video Game himself.
  2. Bowser - Probably the most well-known video game villain.
  3. Donkey Kong - The original Mario villain and the star of his own major franchise.
  4. Link - Star of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.
  5. Zelda - It was her or Ganondorf. I chose Zelda because of how the human-form Ganondorf is not quite as common as the monster Ganon.
  6. Samus - One of the first female video game leads and arguably the most iconic.
  7. Yoshi - Struggled with this choice for feeling like a Mario subset series rather than its own, but ran out of other ideas anyway.
  8. Kirby - Star of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.
  9. Fox - Star of a significant Nintendo franchise.
  10. Pikachu - One of the most recognizable video game characters in general.
  11. Lucario - It was tough to pick between Lucario and Mewtwo, but I went with the former to get a Pokemon that isn't gen 1 in, and Lucario is almost certainly the most notable non-gen 1 Pokemon.
  12. Marth - Poster boy of a long-running Nintendo franchise that is more popular now than ever.
  13. Sonic - The only 3rd party character on this list. The history of Sonic and Nintendo is too much to not fit him in.
  14. Pikmin and Olimar - I almost didn't put Olimar in since the Pikmin themselves are what matter, but there's no feasible way to include them without the captain and the series deserves it.
  15. R.O.B. - I think at least one historical character makes sense, and R.O.B. is arguably the most important of them.
  16. Inkling - The amount of popularity and notoriety such a relatively new series has found makes this an obvious pick.
  17. Isabelle - Animal Crossing is a major franchise and Isabelle quickly became the face of it.
  18. Anna - Yes, this is biased. But at the same time, with such harsh limits, Anna can represent the franchise better than any other single character can after Marth. And I don't think it's wrong to give Fire Emblem two slots. And hey, I'm in charge.
  19. Takamaru - A retro rep, and a pretty popular character despite his game being Japan-only for a long time.
  20. Sophie - "Who?" I hear you thinking. This girl. Style Savvy is probably Nintendo's biggest franchise that has been left out of Smash almost entirely (all it has is a song in Smash 4), likely due to it appealing to a completely different audience than most of Nintendo's franchises. I'm including it because it deserves the recognition and it can help bring in some of that audience.

I limited it to two per franchise. I also was not fond of the idea of simply cutting the roster down, which is why I included four newcomers. Sure, you could argue my newcomers aren't the best choices, but Smash has covered so many bases at this point it's hard to get a significant newcomer that doesn't break my rule of two per franchise.

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Hmm, interesting idea. Let's see, my 20 pick would be:

Spoiler

1) Mario
2) Link
3) Pikachu
4) Kirby
5) Yoshi
6) Donkey Kong
7) Samus
8) Fox
9) Captain Falcon
10) Ness
11) Marth
12) Mr. Game & Watch
13) Little Mac
14) R.O.B.
15) Villager
16) Captain Olimar
17) Inkling
18) Shulk
19) Spring Man
20) Isaac

Explanations as follow:

Spoiler

As a general guideline, and considering this would be a reboot with a reduced cast in number, I went with one character per franchise. Yes, every one present. Most characters also are present due to "roles", as it were. I'll go in more detail as they come.

1-10) The debuting franchises. The veterans, top franchises or just highly recognizable. Can't stray too much here. It's a reboot, not a reset.

11) If I remember right, Marth was going to be in the original Smash. That plus how Fire Emblem has fared lately, not to mention, what it alrady had before Melee gave it international recognition. Yeah, we then had to face that U-shaped phase for the "Back to consoles" and "remakes" phase, but fortunately FE recovered. As it is, I'd lump it now in the previous ten in terms of category.

12-14) The retro category, each bring a little of everything of Nintendo's start in the video game business. G&M of course represents its handheld little games, which if I remember right were the first Nintendo ever did before the Game Boy was a thing. Little Mac would represent the arcade era. R.O.B as an accessory representation, but also for its role in making sure the NES would make it through the "Video Game Crash of 1983" when the Famicon was brought outside of Japan.

15-16) These guys are from series that debuting after the turn of the millenium. I'd consider it a semi-middle ground of sorts, between the new and old. At this point in time, the early 2000's can already be considered more distant that "recent", but can't be quite placed into the truly old series. So, these represent that part of history. There's on more pick here, but that one represents more something else. More on that later.

17-19) The recent and modern category. Pretty much. Spring Man also covers the newcomers category. Gotta have those as well, I'd say. Personally, I would've thought ARMS would've certainly gotten representation had the new Smash not have gone the "Bring back everybody" route, placing the actual number of newcomers in doubt.

20) This may sound out of left-field, and I'll admit this is where most of my bias went. Isaac from Golden Sun. Not entirely a newcomer to Smash, since he was an Assist Trophy in Brawl. He would represent a few things the way I'm doing this reboot. First, like Olimar and Villager, he comes from a series debuting in the early 2000's. Like Spring Man, he'd be a newcomer. His main point, however, would be the "Attempt to gain attention/popularity through Smash power" choice. Let's not forget, Smash as a series carries power. We are the proof. Where would FE be if Marth and Roy had not debuted in Melee? I can't say for sure, but its fate was certainly changed the moment they decided to not only add them to Smash, but keep them for the overseas release, since the original plan was for them to be Japan-only. So, Golden Sun. Kinda niche, just two games, ended with a sequel hook. Went years without a continuation. Finally a sequel happened, ended with another hook. Game unfortunately didn't do that well. No new games since. Issac was gone in Smash 4, I think the only AT that didn't returned. So, if Smash can help an old or unpopular or semi-obscure series out, I'd choose Golden Sun for this time around.

So yeah, that would be how I'd do it, more or less.

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The original 12 minus Jigglypuff. There won't ever be a smash game without these.

Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Ness, Captain Falcon, Luigi

Then we have the characters that have to be in to help represent the big franchises:

Zelda, Marth, Pit, Peach, Little Mac, Shulk, Inkling

Lastly, even though Sonic and Cloud aren't technically Nintendo characters, I think they've done more than enough to earn their place in the roster. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

While that's true, I'd rather try to stay within the guidelines you suggested out of respect for you and your Topic. I guess I'll go ahead and put up a more realistic list but then follow with my own selections...

More Realistic:

  Reveal hidden contents
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Peach
  • Yoshi
  • DK
  • Pikachu
  • Jigglypuff
  • Fox
  • Samus
  • Ridley
  • Ness
  • Kirby
  • Captain Falcon
  • Link
  • Zelda/Shiek
  • Marth
  • Robin
  • Mega Man
  • Pac-Man
  • Inklings

This is effectively the OG Smash Roster(since a fair majority of the fanbase explodes whenever you suggest removing one of the original 12) featuring 8 guest stars. Peach is included to pad the Mario Roster out since it is Mario after all(though I think a quarter of the roster is absolutely ridiculous for one franchise because let's be real, Yoshi and DK were Mario characters first). Ridley appears due to the ridiculous backlash they would receive if he were a one-game shot, plus to give Metroid the much-needed representation. Zelda is included because Link and Zelda go together, that's just how it works now, and I recombined Shiek with Zelda because to be realistic that's the only way Zelda will ever be a good character. Fire Emblem has become its own fairly competent franchise, meaning Marth snags a spot, and I chose to add Robin due to Awakening's fair amount of popularity and Robin's relative unique moveset. While I can't stand anything Splatoon-related in general, I must acknowledge that the games are very popular, even if I think that's weird, so Inklings. Mega Man and Pac-Man are included because one of the major things Sakurai stressed he was excited about in Sm4sh was that you could have them and Mario all together in one game, but other than that 3rd-Party characters have been trimmed as relative excess fat.

Personal Selections(Keep comments telling me I'm an idiot to yourself or to PMs):

  Reveal hidden contents
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Pichu
  • Zelda
  • Ganondorf
  • Samus
  • Weavel
  • Ridley
  • Mega Man
  • Zero
  • Roy
  • Ike
  • Robin
  • Ryu
  • Jin Kazama
  • Akira
  • Palutena
  • Cloud
  • Sora
  • Wolf

WILL EDIT EXPLANATION IN LATER 'CUZ I GOTTA RUN

-BONUS FIVE ASSUMING LARGER CAST CHOICES-

  • Serina Leaf
  • Pohatu Nuva(SHUT UP HATERS)
  • Infernape
  • Custom Robo(Pick one)
  • Lewa Nuva

 

 

It's nice to see all the variances/differences between what people would go with and is a big reason why I made this topic.

 

 

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cf8d6838bb49b846d04965dd3291b293.png

There were a few tough cuts to make like Jiggs and Ness, but I tried to go for something reasonably representative in both terms of history and sales. Mario could probably afford to lose either of Peach/Bowser to make way for a newer franchise rep like an Inkling or Shulk.

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My thinking is that charathers can have an importance to "smash" that outeweighs their franchise history. Much like decisions for Dynasty Warrior Rosters...

Mario -

Link -

Pikachu - Pokemon is a juggernaught, Down B spamming leeps pikachu alive ffor casual players even if tournament players can't use it without technical play.

Kirby - Kirby is dispropotionally big in Japan, and Smash was made by Hal labatory.

Captain Falcon - Falcon Puch keeps him in the game, obviously. The days of SoCal and his use by plaeyers like Scar might be behind, but he has overwhelming popularity.

Jigglypuff - Yes it was first put in due to easy programming and as a homage to its overly common use as filler in the Season 1 anime. But it's reputation for Wall of Pain and the risk reward of risk "rest"  is quite powerful. Regs-Fil-Amie even played Hungrybox onstage TWICE. Stays despite irrelevance for same reasons as C Falcon -.

Sheik / Fox / - Stay due to their melee infamy despite the semi clone stats of one of them. 

Marth - Stays due to Melee, "Ken combo" gets thrown around even for other charathers in other games due to his former glory. 

Samus - Samus would come in off of Metroid Prime 4... Kind of a shame since Zero Suit Samus would otherwise be the better sole Metroid represanttive due to normal Samus; bad height/weight combination, lack of players maining, and general unimportance to Smash history and ZSS being highly prominent in both 3 and 4's environment. 

Ness - A lot of his gameplay issues had been worked out in Smash 4, and while he remained a techncal charather due to his short range and the way PK thunder works... at least he became effective when people bothered to learn him. Does not  require a Mother 3 locaization annoucement to get into a "small smash" 

DK - A Classic still, Has smallish memetic presence due to "hoo-ha and cargo-throw shenangians. Kind of new player friendly compared to other heavyweights.

Diddy Kong - Started out hated, grown to be one of "the good guys" over time, especially with Smash 4 > Brawl Bannas and Patched down U-air.  I also feel that in his two game's he's the charather that's easiest to test the functions of a game with too much or too little shieldstun/hitstun, fufilling a testing role better than mario himself. 

Peach - Stays because she is one of the poster childs for a technical charather done right, and because at times Nintendo seems desperate to up its Female ratio.

Bowser -  Might sneak in because f wanting to make "heavyweight" it's own class.... the appeal is kind of lost on me, but whatever. 

Villager - Kind of a break out charather, would work fine for another round.

Inkling - Non vetern charather with a redeeming mecchanic in gameplay unlike Ridley who loooks like another underpowered heavyweight.

Megaman - Given tremendous appeal in his trailer, far more than other 3rd parties. Fought his way up from irrelevance over the course of Smash 4 patches until his once bad playstyle became decen. 

Sonic -  Charather developed awkardly. But eventually became noe of "the good guys" ... not so powerful that peple are forced to cheer against it's players, but not beyond hope of playing in a tournament either. ...  references an era and rivalry legendary t Nintendo history. 

Ubisoft charather - pref Rayman -  Given Nintendo's chumminess with Ubisoft over the last 2 years. 

 

Removed -

Yoshi - His Smash moveset has been an "easy to learn" variation of Mario from the begining but smash doesn't really need tutorail charathers sine it's already a very intuitive game. Other than Amsa he has neverr been very showy at tournaments either.

Zelda - While it would be nice to see her done right... being a technique charather has dragged her down time and again.

Retro Charathers - I like G&W personally, but IC/ROB/DHD, like most technical charathers in smash, aren't exactly attractive in their smash iterations and are mostly appreciated for their themeing or for the sake of representing the NES. Managing items or grapple mechanics isn't exactly GRADE A material unless they are particularly functional , eg Diddy, Peach. 

Gannondorf - The "King of disrespect" thing isn't nearly as big as people make it out to be, and he doesn't really have a memetic vicegrip the way Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff do... I feel like his "King of Evil" spin-off designation is also kind of wavering, despite SS and BotW tying in to his mythos. 

Snake/Rosalina/Bayonetta/Cloud - 3 are simply too easy to pick up, and 1 is too hard, all give other fighting game communties ammunitation to attack smash bros. 

Others - Mostly varaitions of the above .... Technical charathers that don't actually pay off once mastered, Minor charathers both in their own and with their Smash personality, and a few overly simple charathers. Most meme charathers disquailfied because Villager/Captain Falcon/Jigglypuff arer enough. 

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20 hours ago, The DanMan said:

Please, try to not to be too biased

Screw that!

Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, K.Rool, Link, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Ness, Ike, Robin, Inklings, Samus, Captain Falcon , Mr. Game & Watch and Phoenix Wright.

10 hours ago, AzureEclipse said:

Lastly, even though Sonic and Cloud aren't technically Nintendo characters, I think they've done more than enough to earn their place in the roster

I can agree with Sonic, seeing as he's had games on Nintendo consoles, but not Cloud.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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34 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I can agree with Sonic, seeing as he's had games on Nintendo consoles, but not Cloud.

Cloud was in one. Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories for the GBA (and its remake for the PS2, but the GBA version was first).

Truthfully, that wouldn't be enough. As it is, if SE was to provide a character for Smash, it'd be from FF, being their flagship series; and that being Cloud due to VII and its popularity/recognition. Too bad for the FF's that debuted in a Nintendo console, but they can't really measure up, except perhaps VI.

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Characters with a red border are unlockable.

 

Starting:

  • Mario
  • Donkey Kong
  • Link
  • Samus
  • Kirby
  • Fox
  • Pikachu
  • Ness
  • Captain Falcon
  • Marth
  • Pit
  • Villager
  • Inkling

 

Unlockable:

  • Luigi
  • Bowser
  • Yoshi
  • Zelda
  • King Dedede
  • Charizard
  • Robin

smol2.png

Edited by Denomon3144

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I have a friend from another website. He's a smart, interesting guy, so I wouldn't do him the disservice of inviting him to this forum, but he once said this of Super Smash brothers: "I hope they cut the roster in half." I don't know how interested he would be in seeing this sort of reboot, but I imagine it would be more up his alley than Ultimate.

Rather then choose the twenty characters I like most (for the most part) or who are the best representatives of Nintendo, I figured I'd pick the twenty which I think could offer the most unique gameplay styles; The unique traits possessed by some characters do make the original game's cast of twelve disproportionately charming. Of course, I don't know all that much about fighting games, Smash is the only one I'm really interested in and I'm not familiar with its competitive scene, so this list might not be great for its intended purpose, but hey, I tried.

Spoiler

1. Mario- He'd make a good choice for a "basic" character.

2. Ganondorf- The Ganon Canon cannot be left out. He hits you, you die. Admittedly, this is also in part due to personal favoritism and meme status.

3. Ridley- The aforementioned friend said that Ridley, rather than simply being too big, would have to be stripped of his defining attributes to fit the mold of a Smash Brother's character. Since this theoretical reboot doesn't have to worry about that as much, Ridley would a character who spends most of the match flying.

4. Mega Man- Pew pew, shoot people from a distance with tons of projectiles and whatever.

5. Donkey Kong- DK would be focused a lot on grabbing and stuff, utilizing his ability to carry opponents he grabs and, you know, whatever.

6. Lucario- Whether or not they keep the Rage mechanic, Lucario's aura is pretty cool. It might benefit him to have a few options to damage himself, even if it required a bit of a redesign for him so that the fighting style worked. Less important if Rage remains as a mechanic.

7. Captain Falcon- Runs up and kills you. I think the proper term is "rush down." He's the bees KNEES.

8. Snake- Use a variety of explosives to force the opponent where you want them.

9. Yoshi- No idea, but he's got a unique shield and jump so there's probably something you could do with that.

10. Little Mac- Runs up and kills you, but only on the ground. Very dodgy. Dance like a fly, bite like a big misquito, that sort of thing.

11. Sonic- Hit and run.

12. Shulk- Master Monado arts and do...something with that.

13. Ness- A mix of a focus on grabs and projectiles, using the latter to deal damage and set up for his grab, which isn't nearly as long range as Donkey Kong's. He's also got the weird recovery which I feel makes him a bit more unique, and it kind of a fun idea if it was made a legitimate combat option. I'd probably change PK Flash to Lucas' PK Freeze so he can freeze people and then combo them.

14. Link- Marth seemed to fast, Ike to slow, so Link is the sword/disjointed hitbox specialist. Combining the weapon with his variety of projectiles makes him another good spacing option, but different than Mega Man in that he can (and sometimes will want) to fight up close.

15. Mewtwo- Light weight, big power. A glass canon, as compared to the heavier iron Ganon Canon.

16. Samus- Should specialize in using her aerial attacks, not sure how I feel about having a 7th character with a bunch of projectiles but it's better than Jigglypuff as an air fighter. Unlike Ridley, who's always flying, Samus is based on the ground but her best attacks are all used in the air.

17. Rosalina and Luma- It's probably a better form of the "puppeteer" gimmick than the Ice Climbers since your puppet isn't always following you around as closely, though I'd like to see the Luma be more like Nana in that's it's difficulty to replace. It respawns fairly soon after being defeated as is.

18. Fox- Effectively the anti-projectile character due to his Reflector and also being one of the most enduring of Smash Characters, I can't imagine a competitive Smash Brothers tournament with no Fox. Using his Side B to close distances works for that too, I guess...

19. Marth- Included Marth anyway because I figure that the tipper and melee-only spacing was kinda neat.

20. Wario- I just like Wario so he's included. He's small and heavy and has good recovery though so his specialty is surviving. New special move: Eat garlic to reduce damage percentage.

Bayonetta is a 21st playable character but picking that one just punches you in the crotch so it doesn't really count.

 

Someone with a better understanding of fighting games and more time to put into thinking about this could probably come up with a better list with more diverse and thought out playing styles. They might even find a place for a Kirby character, or Cloud, or Pac-Man, which were all options I was considering but decided against because who cares? Robin, Palutena, and Inkling were also considerations but it said to pick twenty and twenty one I did.

With this reduced roster, it would be a great opportunity to have custom specials return, but this time you'd have at least one alternate for each move which is something completely   different.

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