Story changes in a Radiant Dawn remake?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I'd want the game to be more balanced in the characters, honestly.

Micaiah is all but overridden by Yune. Tormod vanishes for basically the whole game. Elincia, Geoffrey, Lucia, Brom, and Nephenee all drop off after having their own dedicated chapters in Part 2, and Part 2 is too short anyway. Sanaki is nonexistent. The Dawn Brigade is severely underdeveloped.

I'd want all of those characters to have more prominence, and lessen Ike's role considerably.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Modamy said:

I really don't find Ike's ending to be all that poorly handled and I thought it was established decently, but I was never certain if he actually left the Greil Mercenaries but

Scarlet-Haired Paladin – Titania

Titania remained second in command of the mercenaries. Once a year, she visited the graves of her fallen friends.

If Titania's ending is anything to go by, even if Ike leaves Tellius the Greil Mercs just go with him.

That ending just means Titania remained second in command. It's possible Mist or someone took control (I say Mist because of nepotism, Boyd actually seems the most likely candidate to me for some reason). Considering Soren's paired ending (and only his paired ending) makes explicit reference to the fact that he went with Ike, I think it likely the Griel Mercenaries didn't accompany him. His ending doesn't exclude the fact that he returned to visit the mercs on occasion though. It just says "he was never seen again." That obviously isn't literal because the people in the place where he vanished off to would see him. It just means he was never seen again in the public eye.

9 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

My biggest problem that I would like to see addressed is Ike and Mist's relationship, it seems like such a waste, especially given that mist is one of (if not) the best setup little sisters in the series.

I also think that establishing the blood pact better would be a good move to make as well, I think the best way would be in a PoR remake just to not have it suddenly pop out of nowhere.

finally give Ike a better ending or better establish why Ike is leaving, also give him an ending with mist, his ending sounds more like a mid life crisis death march to the top of mount everest, than a proper send off to a beloved character, as far as anyone knows the only thing outside of tellius is water that is it, these "lands unknown" sound more like they had another sequel planned where Ike found something and hijinks ensue, otherwise, he died at sea.

There's Hatari.

6 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Sounds like something Naruto (the series) would do. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Didn't aliens literally kidnap Hinata ? 

I agree we needed to see the LEA in part three. 

OT: The Apostle's Army crossing into Daein makes no sense. Make it so that Daein allows them to pass through after they request to pass through. Certain elements of the blood pact need better and more consistent explanation. Add support conversations that give more buildup into character endings such as Micaiah being Queen of Daein and Ike leaving Tellius. Give Micaiah some dialogue with Yune at the end when she talks with Ike in spirit form. Chapter 3-10 should be played from Elincia's perspective and it should be made clear that Crimea no longer needs to rely on Ike since that was the whole point of part two. Chapter 3-11 should be played from the Dawn Brigade's perspective because if Micaiah was on the other side of the bridge, why wasn't she in command? Instead they could make the GM playable against general Maeil if we needed to see a fanatical general. It should be explained that the reason Ike was chosen to kill Ashera is because Yune has an easier time blessing weaponry, especially one that's been blessed by Ashera herself. Furthermore, explicitly state that Ike is the strongest swordsmen which makes him the best candidate to finish Ashera instead of it being seen as unexplained favoritism to the main character (not even the true one). 

I liked the relationship between Micaiah and Sanaki. Mist and Ike were done fairly well in PoR but in RD that relationship felt kind of weak. 

I changed my mind about Ike's ending after seeing a custom made support conversation. It'd make sense that Ike doesn't want people constantly needing him to fix his problems and it's probably best for Tellius that way as well. He should make secret occasional visits to the Greil Mercenaries though. 

 

The whole gimmick of 3-11 is that it's a Path of Radiance chapter being played in reverse, you'd lost that gimmick if you played it as Daein. Plus it just wouldn't make sense as the Laguz Alliance has to win that conflict. It'd have to be a defend map (and would make for a pretty easy defend map at that) and we already have one of those nearby with 3-13 (and sort of the Elincia chapter prior). But speaking of that map, I'd replace the boss with a playable character, maybe Tauroneo or someone. It also reminds me that Micaiah should have autority stas. Doesn't really make sense that this random general devoted to her has two yet she has none.

5 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I'd want the game to be more balanced in the characters, honestly.

Micaiah is all but overridden by Yune. Tormod vanishes for basically the whole game. Elincia, Geoffrey, Lucia, Brom, and Nephenee all drop off after having their own dedicated chapters in Part 2, and Part 2 is too short anyway. Sanaki is nonexistent. The Dawn Brigade is severely underdeveloped.

I'd want all of those characters to have more prominence, and lessen Ike's role considerably.

Part 2 is as short as it needs to be. Adding more to it would detract rather than add. All it would be is filler.

[Icelerate]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The whole gimmick of 3-11 is that it's a Path of Radiance chapter being played in reverse, you'd lost that gimmick if you played it as Daein. Plus it just wouldn't make sense as the Laguz Alliance has to win that conflict. It'd have to be a defend map (and would make for a pretty easy defend map at that) and we already have one of those nearby with 3-13 (and sort of the Elincia chapter prior). But speaking of that map, I'd replace the boss with a playable character, maybe Tauroneo or someone. It also reminds me that Micaiah should have autority stas. Doesn't really make sense that this random general devoted to her has two yet she has none.

I think gameplay wise, playing it defensively would be more interesting. It would be easy due to the terrain advantage but you'd have to keep Ike and Tibarn at bay so using light runes effectively would be key to holding them off. You can't retreat too fast but you can't do so too slowly either. I think it has potential to be an interesting map because in most maps you're either advancing or just holding the line but in this one you have to use tactical retreats. You can use your own NPCs as pawns but by letting them die, you gain less BEXP. That's my idea. Story wise, I think what is going on with Daein is more interesting so 3-11 played from Ike's perspective wasn't that interesting. Sure we get to play as Micaiah right afterward but giving her more screen time before she learns about the blood pact but after she learns that Crimea and part of Begnion are now against them is needed since the tides of war have turned. 

[Modamy]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That ending just means Titania remained second in command. It's possible Mist or someone took control (I say Mist because of nepotism, Boyd actually seems the most likely candidate to me for some reason). Considering Soren's paired ending (and only his paired ending) makes explicit reference to the fact that he went with Ike, I think it likely the Griel Mercenaries didn't accompany him. His ending doesn't exclude the fact that he returned to visit the mercs on occasion though. It just says "he was never seen again." That obviously isn't literal because the people in the place where he vanished off to would see him. It just means he was never seen again in the public eye.

This back and forth has left me to realize that it wasn't that well developed of a point for his character. I suppose Ike's ending to me was left with enough ambiguity that it was just up to interpretation. I saw Ike as a warrior who enjoyed a battle up against a strong rival and since the greatest rival he ever had was dead it wouldn't be strange for him to leave. Anyway, this debate isn't exactly a hill I'm willing to die on so I've just conceded by this point.

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It also reminds me that Micaiah should have autority stas. Doesn't really make sense that this random general devoted to her has two yet she has none.

It always confused me how Micaiah, who supposedly has nearly fanatical followers, has less leadership stars than any other character used as a lord in the game.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Part 2 is as short as it needs to be. Adding more to it would detract rather than add. All it would be is filler.

I disagree entirely. No part is just filler if done right, and even then, filler is definitely not an automatic bad thing. Part 3 is already a bunch of bloated filler anyway, if any part of the game has claim to that...it's Part 3.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I disagree entirely. No part is just filler if done right, and even then, filler is definitely not an automatic bad thing. Part 3 is already a bunch of bloated filler anyway, if any part of the game has claim to that...it's Part 3.

No, filler is not inherently a bad thing, but it is a bad thing when the game already has forty+ chapters. There's nothing to be added to the story of part 2 by stringing it out longer. Like sure, you could have more protracted battles against Ludveck, but it's not going to develop any of the characters further or present the themes in any deeper way (and Part 2 in it's entirety, as well written as it is, is more filler than anything in Part 3, except maybe the rehashed swamp level where the Dawn Brigade fights the Liberation Army and absolutely nothing comes of it).

Edited July 3, 2018 by Jotari

[Icelerate]

I think it is part four prior to end game that is mostly fillers. Especially Ike's chapters. 

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I think it is part four prior to end game that is mostly fillers. Especially Ike's chapters. 

This is true in a lot of respects, nothing much happens in those chapters, particularly in Ike's case (Tibarn probably fairs best for relevance), but that's useful filler, as imagine how insanely rushed the finale would be if they just time skipped or warped straight to the tower of guidance. You'd barely have registered Yune as a concept or the two factions as allies and suddenly you're out the front door of the final boss. You also wouldn't have the Senators in Part 1 of the end game concluding the blood pact arc, as without the prior chapters to establish the Disciples of Order (or the time frame in which Ashera needs to decide to revive them). Part 2 doesn't really have these issues, yes, the entire thing is rather short, but it hits all the story beats it requires when it requires them. We establish Elincia's emotional state and situation in the first chapter, establish Ludveck's rising tide in the second, surreptitiously counter attack against him in the third, attempt to eliminated him in the fourth, but are feinted and fight a final battle in the fifth in which Elincia gains control of her kingdom and herself. Each step leads naturally to another and no more time nor development is needed. The only plot point I could see maybe needing expanding is Lucia's capture by Ludveck, but that wouldn't really do well as a chapter as she'd be your only unit. Though I guess that wasn't much of an issue for the Black Knight and Micaiah chapter in part 1. Lucia could go somewhere with someone else (Leanne maybe? Sword Master and Dancer chapter where you have to carefully make the most out of refreshing while still protecting the refresher, that could work, though it probably wouldn't make much sense plotwise) and get captured just at the end of the chapter while the companion escapes.

[Lost Impact]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This is true in a lot of respects, nothing much happens in those chapters, particularly in Ike's case (Tibarn probably fairs best for relevance), but that's useful filler, as imagine how insanely rushed the finale would be if they just time skipped or warped straight to the tower of guidance. You'd barely have registered Yune as a concept or the two factions as allies and suddenly you're out the front door of the final boss. You also wouldn't have the Senators in Part 1 of the end game concluding the blood pact arc, as without the prior chapters to establish the Disciples of Order (or the time frame in which Ashera needs to decide to revive them). Part 2 doesn't really have these issues, yes, the entire thing is rather short, but it hits all the story beats it requires when it requires them. We establish Elincia's emotional state and situation in the first chapter, establish Ludveck's rising tide in the second, surreptitiously counter attack against him in the third, attempt to eliminated him in the fourth, but are feinted and fight a final battle in the fifth in which Elincia gains control of her kingdom and herself. Each step leads naturally to another and no more time nor development is needed. The only plot point I could see maybe needing expanding is Lucia's capture by Ludveck, but that wouldn't really do well as a chapter as she'd be your only unit. Though I guess that wasn't much of an issue for the Black Knight and Micaiah chapter in part 1. Lucia could go somewhere with someone else (Leanne maybe? Sword Master and Dancer chapter where you have to carefully make the most out of refreshing while still protecting the refresher, that could work, though it probably wouldn't make much sense plotwise) and get captured just at the end of the chapter while the companion escapes.

They could shorten it to one chapter per team and have more time in the Tower of Guidance since more character interactions were needed there. Ike and Micaiah barely talk to each other! Nothing happens in the Prologue of Part 4, or 4-1. Even 4-2 isn't that relevant to the plot since Valtome could easily just have been a tower boss anyway. 

Also, anyone else find it odd that in Chapter 4-3 (Distortions), the Black Knight tells Micaiah that he'll be back for her and never does come back? Wonder if it was cut from the Japanese version or mistranslated or something. Either way it's a bit odd. Would have liked more conversations between characters before the Tower, at base, too.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Lost Impact said:

They could shorten it to one chapter per team and have more time in the Tower of Guidance since more character interactions were needed there. Ike and Micaiah barely talk to each other! Nothing happens in the Prologue of Part 4, or 4-1. Even 4-2 isn't that relevant to the plot since Valtome could easily just have been a tower boss anyway. 

Also, anyone else find it odd that in Chapter 4-3 (Distortions), the Black Knight tells Micaiah that he'll be back for her and never does come back? Wonder if it was cut from the Japanese version or mistranslated or something. Either way it's a bit odd. Would have liked more conversations between characters before the Tower, at base, too.

I don't think adding more chapters in the tower would do much, but I absolutely think there should have been a chapter where they reunite and capture the capital together, instead of Caineghis just one shotting the entirety of the order off screen.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Part 4 are just grinding chapters (in a very bad way). Only 4-5 has a justified plot. Adding and making Oliver even playable - who's an utter garbage unit btw - is just fanservice. 

Endgame's chapters are poorly designed gameplaywise imo (done in 1-2 turns) except for E-3 because of Deghinsea and E-5 because of actual pretty damn great design for a final map in FE which happens rarely enough.

 

As for the actual question give more details about the bloodpact and get rid of the Ashera can't be killed by Yune thing. Of course Micaiah should be able to kill Ashera since its HER game, not Ike's. He had enough spotlight in FE9 already.

[Eden Agleam]

Since Radiant Dawn is my favorite Fire Emblem game, I've thought long about what I would do to improve Radiant Dawn's story. A lot of what I would do revolves around refocusing the Parts to emphasize more or less about certain characters or plot lines. 

Part 1

• Define Sothe more beyond being Micaiah's weird son/lover. I can't really say much more about him other than he's an orphan who was raised by Micaiah, idolizes Ike, and has doesn't really do much for the plot. One thing RD could take from SoV is letting certain characters interact more with the plot. While Sothe talks a lot, he doesn't say much, if that makes sense. Maybe this is just me. 
• Give Pelleas more focus. For who is supposed to be Daein's king, he isn't very important. And to some level, this is good, as it emphasizes the fanatic devotion towards Micaiah. However, it also leaves Pelleas a bit forgettable, and when his sacrifice comes up, it's hard to care too much. Use his time in Part 1 to develop what he feels he, as a king, should do, and build a genuine relationship between him and Micaiah. And with Almehda as well. You could even have him become playable in Endgame with little issue. 
• Use the base conversations to develop the Dawn Brigade more. I really want to care about them, even a little bit. Especialy characters like Fiona, who are tied to the Four Riders, and Nolan, who is cool. 

Overall, Part 1 is pretty strong story wise, with the game difficulty assisting to build the oppressive, underdog-esque storyline. It just fails in building the basis for the later parts, but I would call that more of a problem with Part 3. 

 

Part 2

• Why are all of the Begnion characters here? They don't need to be here, they shouldn't be here, leave. Marcia, Astrid, Makalov, and Danved should be in Begnion, because it doesn't make much sense why they are in Crimea. Without them, Part 2 could have about the same amount of members as Part 1 (Elincia, Leanne, Nealuchi, Haar, Brom, Nephennee, Heather, Lucia, Mordecai, Lethe, Geoffrey, Kieran, Calill, Largo, Bastian, Volke). Of course, not all of these characters would be playable (Bastian/Volke aren't) but Largo could be added back in. I actually don't mind Haar here though, since he's more free-spirited and not united with anyone really. 
• The overall storyline is good, and Elincia's arc is solid, but it doesn't feel very connected to the main plot, which is fine, but it could be better. One of the senators (Valtome?) could very easily be allied with Ludveck to establish a Begnion-supporting ruler in Crimea. It wouldn't change too much, and would still allow Elincia to go through her arc. 
• Use 2-P through 2-2 to build the feeling of turmoil in Crimea. Especially 2-1, which just teases the idea. 
• 2-3, without the Begnion characters, only has Geoffrey, Kieran, Calill, and Largo, so Geofffrey's assault feels more daunting. Gameplay may be adjusted accordingly. 
• After Elincia accepts Lucia's fate, have Bastian/Volke come in to the rescue, with the Royal Knights. I feel like this allows Lucia's rescue to feel more in Crimea's hands, and less thanks to Ike appearing in. I don't know, maybe this is just me. 

I really like Part 2, but I want it to be a bit tighter and to remove the Begnion characters, to allow them elsewhere. 

 

Part 3

• Okay, so idea: cut out some of the filler Greil Mercenary chapters, and give them to Sanaki. Lemme explain. Sanaki, having heard word of her Senate's actions, along with Sephiran's imprisonment, voices her objections. The Senate, while she speaks, vows to stop. Later that night, Sanaki is in her bedroom, when suddenly a stranger appears and he tells her that the Senate plans on capturing/assassinating her and using her as a martyr to further theiur goals. They must escape, and reach Gallia to assert to the Laguz Royals that she is not accepting this. In her chapters, the other Begnion characters come along, because that makes sense. It also lets Sanaki be a fourth and final lord, and completes the color alignment that I like so much (Ike - Blue Flame, Elincia - Yellow Flame, Sanaki - Red Flame, Micaiah - White Flame/Dawn). 
• Ike's chapters are fine, if not a bit boring. Hopefully, by cutting down on some of Ike's more filer-y chapters, we can make the sections feel swifter. 
• Micaiah's chapters are good. If anything, I would just continue developing her relationship with Pelleas. Also, introduce the Blood Pact with more defined terms. I don;t think it is a bad plot point in concept, but in execution, it is used to explain away certain  motives. Give it defined limits and powers, so it can be accepted as a legitimate tactic. 
• Have Pelleas's sacrifice be possible on the first playthrough. By that, I mean, have the choice be sacrifice him or not. And depending on your choice you get Pelleas or Almehda as a playable character. Of course, also change the situation to make the choice important as well. 

My changes are more dramatic in Part 3, but Part 3 is also super long. 

 

I don't feel like doing Part 4, but most people have the same idea of changes for Part 4. Give Micaiah and Yune seperate screen times, etc. 

[Lost Impact]

One of the ideas I had was scrapping part 2 entirely and instead make a part 4 (since part 3 is now part 2 and part 4 is now part 3) about Micaiah becoming the Queen of Daein and struggling with her role. I wrote a whole description of what I wanted to happen in it once: 

Also since I wrote this I decided the villain is Alder who escaped from near death in 1-9 for revenge against Micaiah. Warning, this is quite long, but I'd be interested to hear opinions on it. 
 

Quote

The story begins with Micaiah's coronation, taking place shortly after the events of the main game. Whoever you paired her up with (either Sothe, Pelleas, Zelgius, Nolan, Edward or Leonardo, would also have a few lines, mostly the same kind of thing (similar to how there would be different lines for whoever you paired up Chrom with in Awakening, except they would get more dialogue), although a few differences, for example Pelleas/Zelgius thanking Micaiah for saving them during the events of the game (in this version of the game similar to Pelleas and Sephiran, Zelgius can be saved as well. You would be given the option to prevent Ike from killing Zelgius (Micaiah could do this by standing in between them after the fight (Ike wouldn't kill her because she hosts Yune) or by healing him like with Sephiran). I made this change partly because I ship Zelgius/Micaiah and partly because I thought Zelgius' death was very forced and it was out of character for Micaiah to just watch and not do anything). Nolan/Edward/Leonardo would say something about how far the Dawn Brigade has come and it's all thanks to her, then all the other Dawn Brigade members would become members of Micaiah's court. Finally, Sothe would also say some lines about how far the Dawn Brigade has come, but also how he would always protect Micaiah and how he'll try to stay with her for as long as he can. If Pelleas died, then Micaiah would say something about that in her speech and the Dawn Brigade members would talk briefly about the events of Part 3 and their thoughts on Pelleas, If Zelgius died, then Edward would say to Micaiah about how he intends to train more and become Daein's new Black Knight. I considered paired endings with other characters than the ones I listed, like Soren and Ike as I know those are both popular pairings, however I don't think Soren would forgive Micaiah nor want to be the King of Daein, and Ike barely had any interaction with her, and again wouldn't want to be a King. Sorry IkexMicaiah shippers).

After Micaiah's speech and the ceremony, there would be a two year time skip. Micaiah has become a Queen loved by all who cares deeply about all the people of Daein, although her experiences during Radiant Dawn have changed her to become more aware of how the Laguz are treated. She tries her best to mend the Beorc-Laguz relations in Daein. She helps a lot with the reconstruction and often visits the slums and areas she used to stay in when she was a part of the Dawn Brigade, helping whoever she can. She also allies Daein with Crimea, Begnion and Hatari, and becomes good friends with Elincia, who helps her to grow into her role. Then one day, after a secret visit to Stefan's Branded community, she decides that she wants to reveal her brand, believing that it would make the Daein people more accepting of the branded. She talks to whoever you paired her with about this. Sothe would immediately tell her not to, and that it is a secret that she must guard as she would be persecuted if anyone found out. Leonardo, Pelleas, Nolan and Edward would all be surprised to hear she is branded, but also advise her against doing so, and Zelgius would tell her that he sensed her brand, and show his own. He would tell her how he had to stay hidden as a branded, and warn her of the consequences of showing her brand. Micaiah listens to the warning and decides against showing her brand. However a few days later Micaiah sees a branded being persecuted, and decides she has to put an end to it. By this time she is beloved by the Daein people and has been for years, so she doesn't think revealing her brand would turn people against her. She makes an official announcement and reveals her brand, much to everyone's shock. She then says that the Branded are people and that they should treat them as such, and that Beorc, Laguz and Branded are all the same, all people. And then, much to her shock, people begin to cheer. She has convinced them.

However, it isn't that simple, and a rebellion is formed against her (similar to in Elincia's arc). A group of Daein people try to sneak in to the castle at night to kill her, which begins the first chapter. You play as the Dawn Brigade and Pelleas/Zelgius if you kept them alive and you have to prevent the group from killing Micaiah. After this attempt, Micaiah discusses the events with the Dawn Brigade. Her partner criticizes her for acting rashly, but she says she had no choice and that she couldn't stand to see the branded treated like this. The next day, Micaiah decides to try and track down this group, and try to change their minds. She does this through Sothe, who is sneaky, being a thief. He gets the information that this rebellion has been organised by one of Jarod's men who was a good friend of Jarod's that still holds a grudge against her, who formed a group to try to take her down. Suddenly, an assassin from this group tries to kill Micaiah, but Stefan unexpectedly shows up, having heard about what she did. The assassin calls some more of the group, which begins the second chapter. Same characters as the first except now you can play as Stefan and Micaiah. After the battle Micaiah thanks Stefan, who says that he will stay and help her end the rebellion.

After all these failed attempts, the leader (I'm just going to call him "evil guy" because I suck at coming up with character names), evil guy, gets annoyed and decides to put an end to Micaiah quickly. He captures Sothe while Sothe is sneaking around getting information for Micaiah. Then he starts to attack the castle. He tells Micaiah and the others to drop their weapons otherwise Sothe will die. However, Micaiah, unlike Elincia does in her arc, remembering her hesitating earlier on when Sothe was being threatened, refuses and casts a blinding spell on evil guy, which begins the third map, a timed map where you have to protect the castle and fight off the rebellion before the blinding spell wears off. Once is does, evil guy proceeds to kill Sothe, which causes Micaiah to collapse in despair. Whoever you paired her with would then help her up, and if it's Sothe then she will get up by herself. Then, knowing what she must do, she quickly runs to Sothe and uses her sacrifice to heal him. She then collapses again. Sothe awakens and whoever you paired her with carries her away (Taureno if Sothe). Evil guy then chases after her, which begins chapter 4, where you have to protect Micaiah and play as Sothe and whoever you paired her with (Taureno if Sothe). Midway through Sanaki, Sigrun and Tanith show up to help. Once evil guy is defeated Micaiah thanks everyone for their help and says how pleased she is to see Sanaki again. She explains to everyone that it is her Branded powers that allowed her to heal everyone, and that the Branded should not be feared or hated. If you paired her with Zelgius he will add something to her speech about how he is also a Branded and how his powers gave him the strength he had as the Black Knight. Micaiah says realises that it will take a while for Branded to be accepted but she must make a start. The people cheer her and say they would not turn against her because they owe her so much, and her powers saved so many, such as Nico. Stefan, Sanaki, Sigrun and Tanith then leave. Micaiah thanks everyone for supporting her. The arc then ends with everyone heading back to the castle, and Sothe thanking Micaiah for saving him.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

9 hours ago, Shimmerfang said:

Why are all of the Begnion characters here? They don't need to be here, they shouldn't be here, leave. Marcia, Astrid, Makalov, and Danved should be in Begnion, because it doesn't make much sense why they are in Crimea.

I think Makalov's presence actually makes a lot of sense. The game says that Elincia is the only one with the pity required to hire that guy and everything about Makalov supports this reasoning. Astrid in turn follows Makalov around like a lapdog without any dignity so of course she'd join too. 

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Makalov's presence actually makes a lot of sense. The game says that Elincia is the only one with the pity required to hire that guy and everything about Makalov supports this reasoning. Astrid in turn follows Makalov around like a lapdog without any dignity so of course she'd join too. 

Only guy I want to have killed off in the game.

[HappyHawlucha.]

Having proper supports which Radiant Dawn lacks would even there dramatically increase the bond the player shares with it's characters, a conversation between Tauroneo and Fiona where not only is more background given to the original Four Riders, Fiona could develop and worry herself over not being able to live up to her father, or between Sanaki and say Sigrun, Sanaki is such a major character in Tellius but doesn't get to "let her hair down" so to speak and I feel like being around someone like Sigrun would allow Sanaki to be more relaxed and allow the player to see her in a different light and remember she is still just a 13 year old kid. 

[SavageVolug]

I'll try to keep this as organized as possible but here it goes. For the most part I would have the story proceed as follows, but there are a few moments that I think need changing, and adjusting. First of all the Blood Pact is unecessary and by that I mean you could have the exact same perdaciment without resorting to some contrived magic (I will admit though that if Begnion researches magic this seems like just the kind of thing the Senate would invent), I just think you could have the same scenario without magic at all. Also keep Micaiha true to character I think she should be a little more open about her disagreements with the war. I think she should be shown to address Pellias about them, she had no issue arguing with Izuka why should Pelleas be any differant. I also think she's FAR too complacient about the whole Laguz Bounty thing, to begin with she's Branded so that should hit pretty close to home for her, additionally she is friends with Volug, Nailah, Rafiel and got to know Muariim and Vika. It just seems too out of character to me, and I'm not even the biggest fan of Micaiha.

Now the writers wrote themselves into a corner where you could tell it was leading to an Ike and Micaiha showdown and they wrote themselves out of it. No. Have that happen, that needs to happen, but after that have it transition into a Take Down the Senate, arc. Where all 3 main parties are now working to take down the senate, after everything they've put Daien through it would be so much more rewarding to have this happen than.....Goddess wakes up and is in a bad mood and the senate are just her lackeys now. No, just NO.

Almost forgot, have Tormod and company rejoin the story either at the beginning of early into the Laguz War arc, there is no reason they don't get recruited again till part 4.

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

I'll try to keep this as organized as possible but here it goes. For the most part I would have the story proceed as follows, but there are a few moments that I think need changing, and adjusting. First of all the Blood Pact is unecessary and by that I mean you could have the exact same perdaciment without resorting to some contrived magic (I will admit though that if Begnion researches magic this seems like just the kind of thing the Senate would invent), I just think you could have the same scenario without magic at all. Also keep Micaiha true to character I think she should be a little more open about her disagreements with the war. I think she should be shown to address Pellias about them, she had no issue arguing with Izuka why should Pelleas be any differant. I also think she's FAR too complacient about the whole Laguz Bounty thing, to begin with she's Branded so that should hit pretty close to home for her, additionally she is friends with Volug, Nailah, Rafiel and got to know Muariim and Vika. It just seems too out of character to me, and I'm not even the biggest fan of Micaiha.

Now the writers wrote themselves into a corner where you could tell it was leading to an Ike and Micaiha showdown and they wrote themselves out of it. No. Have that happen, that needs to happen, but after that have it transition into a Take Down the Senate, arc. Where all 3 main parties are now working to take down the senate, after everything they've put Daien through it would be so much more rewarding to have this happen than.....Goddess wakes up and is in a bad mood and the senate are just her lackeys now. No, just NO.

Almost forgot, have Tormod and company rejoin the story either at the beginning of early into the Laguz War arc, there is no reason they don't get recruited again till part 4.

But why in the world would Daein choose to fight for the country that oppressed them without some sort of coercion?

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

But why in the world would Daein choose to fight for the country that oppressed them without some sort of coercion?

The idiot brigade in port Toha might have an answer for that. The Begnion occupation force might have been scumbags just like the Daein soldiers oppressing Crimea but at least they are human scumbags. 

Quote

Yeah! That's right! If we need allies, I'll take flesh-and-blood Daein humans over some fanged sub-human freak!

If Crimeans can think that way than surely the far more racist people of Daein can have the same mentality. 

[Jotari]

54 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The idiot brigade in port Toha might have an answer for that. The Begnion occupation force might have been scumbags just like the Daein soldiers oppressing Crimea but at least they are human scumbags. 

If Crimeans can think that way than surely the far more racist people of Daein can have the same mentality. 

Not a bad idea, but it'd still be a hard sell for Micaiah (and thus the plot) to go along with it without some kind of blackmail. She doesn't really want to be a war general, and while she does act for a while without knowing Pelleas' motives, I doubt she'd have kept it up if he was just being racist. It'd have to mean a bit of a retooling of her character to make her a completely straight Camus (which, while she loves her country, she's not in the main game), which I wouldn't have a problem with, as a I generally find Camus's much more realistic than people give them credit for, but I figure given the fanbase, it'd probably derive more ire than even the blood pact.

[omegaxis1]

Hold up. The problem with that is that even with the racism of Daein, the issue is that Daein is still under recovery. It hasn't gained all its strength. Why would they mobilize the army and fight the Laguz Alliance when they aren't at the right strength? The only reason that they complied and joined the war is all because Micaiah is the one leading them. 

And Pelleas clearly doesn't have it in him to want to fight a war unless he's forced to.

So unless there's a damn good reason for a Micaiah vs Ike showdown, there would be no reason to have the fight.

[Lost Impact]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Not a bad idea, but it'd still be a hard sell for Micaiah (and thus the plot) to go along with it without some kind of blackmail. She doesn't really want to be a war general, and while she does act for a while without knowing Pelleas' motives, I doubt she'd have kept it up if he was just being racist. It'd have to mean a bit of a retooling of her character to make her a completely straight Camus (which, while she loves her country, she's not in the main game), which I wouldn't have a problem with, as a I generally find Camus's much more realistic than people give them credit for, but I figure given the fanbase, it'd probably derive more ire than even the blood pact.

Here's an idea. The senate still threaten Daein, but not with a blood pact. Instead, they threaten to reveal Pelleas' secret (that he's not actually Ashnard's lost son). Pelleas would agree since well, he's easily threatened and manipulated. If the truth came out Daein would fall into chaos. And thus, Micaiah would still have to fight. 

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Lost Impact said:

Here's an idea. The senate still threaten Daein, but not with a blood pact. Instead, they threaten to reveal Pelleas' secret (that he's not actually Ashnard's lost son). Pelleas would agree since well, he's easily threatened and manipulated. If the truth came out Daein would fall into chaos. And thus, Micaiah would still have to fight. 

I did think of that when writing my response, but I still think it'd be a pretty hard sell for Micaiah to go along with. She cares about Pelleas and doesn't want to see him get lynched, but I don't think she cares about him so much that she'd sent hundreds if not thousands of citizens to their death, fighting in a war they have no stake in and aren't prepared for. Even if the Senate somehow discover her own branded heritage, I doubt she'd accept the black mail and would rather run away (with Sothe's great urging, he almost physically drags Micaiah away from the situation several times in the game as is).

[Acacia Sgt]

I remember I once brought this up in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.

If you want a sensible way for Daein to support Begnion in the war without something like the Blood Pact, have that once Part 1 is over, among the treaties and stuff, Begnion obliges itself to helping pay reparations for Daein's reconstruction. Then, once the war happen, they rescind the help under the pretext they can't keep the reparations becuase of the war (could be true, Begnion could be lying, but what matters is that they stop), all while nudging rascist Daein to see the Laguz as the reason they can't be helped anymore; but, if Daein were to help in the war, Begnion could free resources again for the reparations to continue...

Just good old fashioned realpolitiks... if that's the term for it...

Ah, found the post, if interested...

Edited July 30, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[thecrimsonflash]

The problem with no blood pact is that daien has nothing to gain from participating in the war, even if they hate laguz, the better idea is to not participate beyond letting the alliance pass through daien to get to begnion, not to mention pelleus would need to be fundamentally changed as a character to get this to happen, there is a reason why everyone is confused that pelleus even decided to participate, it is an uncharacteristically aggressive move on his part.