Jump to content

What elements should the main series take from Heroes?


Jotari
 Share

Recommended Posts

Weapons, skills, stat distributions, enemy density, game mechanics etc. What useful ideas has Heroes produced that you would like to see in a main series Fire Emblem game.

 

(posted here as opposed to the Heroes thread as it's more about the future of the series in General).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weapon triangle. Heroes is the only FE game where the magic triangle is actually done well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ΔZZ said:

The weapon triangle. Heroes is the only FE game where the magic triangle is actually done well.

Completely agree. Though I think things like Manaketes should probably stay out of it for a main series game, unless it's a really heavily focused manakete game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Completely agree. Though I think things like Manaketes should probably stay out of it for a main series game, unless it's a really heavily focused manakete game.

Oh yeah definitely. It should be Sword/Red<Axe/Green<Lance/Blue<Sword/Red with Bows, Daggers (If they come back), Staffs and Dragon/Beast Stones outside the triangle for mainline games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be interested in how Firesweep weapons would work out in a main game.  They're pretty great for player phase focused units in Heroes, so...  Though now that I think about it, trading to change equipped weapons would make them exploitable easily...

Also the lack of RNG on proc skills.

Other than that, yeah the fused weapon/magic triangle is great.  Easily the best way to keep magic triangle relevant imo, though I'd personally prefer Light/Dark/Anima over Fire/Wind/Thunder for the "main" trriangle.

Edited by Glaceon Mage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to see all of the assists reappearing in some form (much like how Shove and Smite were utilised in PoR), including the new staves introduced in Heroes. Maybe not so much Rehabilitate, but some sort of Restore (that also healed) and Matryr staff would be nice. I really enjoyed the added diversity of healing staves in Heroes.
 

8 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Also the lack of RNG on proc skills.

Above all else, I really want to see this. I much prefer the way skills like Vantage and Wrath work, as opposed to the extra randomness of skills like Sol and Astra that just doesn't feel very necessary to me. Critical hits have that covered, and I feel like those sort of proc skills might be better off adopting the cooldown concept taken from Heroes, perhaps as a special attack so you can activate it like the skills in SoV.

Something like "deal x hits to have Sol ready for use", so it now appears on the special attack menu or whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I'd be interested in how Firesweep weapons would work out in a main game.  They're pretty great for player phase focused units in Heroes, so...  Though now that I think about it, trading to change equipped weapons would make them exploitable easily...

Also the lack of RNG on proc skills.

Other than that, yeah the fused weapon/magic triangle is great.  Easily the best way to keep magic triangle relevant imo, though I'd personally prefer Light/Dark/Anima over Fire/Wind/Thunder for the "main" trriangle.

Trad unequipping Firesweeping weapons wouldn't be that exploitable. Like, yeah, it'd be a good strategy, but no better than unequipping a heavier weapon for enemy phase. And mainstream games tend to lean more towards enemy phase anyway, so Firesweepers wouldn't have quite as much utility as in Heroes.

Dark Light and Anima are kind of split in Heroes as it is. It all comes down to aesthetics, but Dark Tomes are very much red and Light Tomes are Blue. They just share the colour with an anima type (fire and lightning), even though they're actually identical weapons. Really it's just as accurate to say the magic triangle in Heroes is Dark, Light and...Wind, as weird as it seems. Once again though, that's all just aesthetics since only top tier weapons have anything to distinguish them in Heroes. I do agree that a main game should take things as a Dark, Light and Anima split.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of skills I want to see. What I personally would like to see the most is the deflect seals made into skills. For those of you who don't know, if you're attacked twice in a row without you counterattacking then the damage from second attack is greatly lowered. Depends on the weapons as there are deflect melee, deflect magic and deflect missile. Deflect magic would be great if a unit didn't have access to ranged weapons at the moment they are attacked and is frequently getting doubled. Ooo. That gives me an idea. Sacred seals in FE games.

Hardy bearing because vantage can be annoying. Stance skills like darting stance to increase your spd during enemy phase. Watersweep to not allow magic foes to counterattack

Edited by silveraura25
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really like the way they balanced Brave Weapons and the Wary Fighter in Heroes.

The Wary Fighter skill was absolutely broken in Fates, and in need of some form of nerf. Now alot of times when a broken ability or weapon from an older game gets nerfed in a newer one, they go completely overboard. And the nerfed thing doesn't become balanced; it just becomes BAD. 

i.e. brave weapons

Broken in Awakening. Nerfed in Fates. TOO nerfed in Fates. Nerfed to the point that they were just downright terrible.

 Speed penalty for equipping + double strike effect only activating on player phase in Heroes makes them usably good weapons on slower, bulkier units. But  not something you're going to be running to equip on every physical unit that can wield them, becuase best weapons in the game (i.e. Awakening)
________


I hope they also take inspiration from Heroe's map design. And put some thought into making the maps more puzzle-boxy (although they were already kinda moving in that direction with some of the map design choices in Conquest)   

Edited by Shoblongoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite a few heroes exclusive skills are neat, even though only fury is coming to mind at the moment(it's been a while, over a year in fact). Growths being random at first but ultimately reliable is an interesting compromise as well.

Agreed that Luna and co being random isn't too great, though I don't really like Heroes' approach either. Not all that fond of fire beating axes also, or wind beating lances, just gets over the edge of where it's nonsensical enough to bother me. And unlike with Fates, it would also not be all that relevant unless we get way more magic users than usual in mainline games, I feel.

Edited by Cysx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

Chill skills and some of the weapons skills, like owl tome and Marth's weapon for supportive role.

I want to say Distant counter and Close counter as well but that would just breaks the game.

Chill skills would be pretty useless in standard Fire Emblem as you're usually going up against a few dozen generics per map.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Chill skills would be pretty useless in standard Fire Emblem as you're usually going up against a few dozen generics per map.

Yeah but aren't those generics usually have the same stats? like this group of archers have same stats, another cavalier group share the same stats, so it would still apply to few of them instead of just one unit at a time.

Nonetheless now that I thought more about it, chill skill would be broken against boss that won't move since he/she will the last one standing and all debuff would be on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

Chill skills and some of the weapons skills, like owl tome and Marth's weapon for supportive role.

I want to say Distant counter and Close counter as well but that would just breaks the game.

Chill skills IDK, but Ploys and Threatens might just work.

DC and CC should be rare as hell if they are to appear. Or they should stay enemy only, as a bit of a "F*ck you, player".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

If the next FE games use a skill system similar to Awakening and Fates (where any unit can inherit nearly any skill) then there should be separate categories for each skill like there is in Heros. Being able to stack multiple specials or powerful offensive skills (like Death and Darting Blow) or multiple breaker skills is just way too powerful.

If infinite durability is used in a later main series game (which doesn't seem like the case) then I'd like their to be a weapon refinery like in Heros. It would be  cool way to pidgeonhole a unit into a specific playstyle or make up points for a low growth in one of their stats. It could also artificially raise difficulty on higher difficulties by giving enemies refined weapons (this was done occasionally in fates IIRC).

Reposition and Drawback should be added to the main games. Positional skills are really fun to use and can help some of the slower units in the army get by faster.

Fliers should have infantry movement. Being able to go across most terrain without penalty is already a strong enough skill as it is.

Debuffs should work like in heroes, where a unit is cured of their debuffs immediately after the turn has ended. It was a pain in Fates to wait several turns for debuffs to completely be cured.

On 7/13/2018 at 9:16 AM, Shoblongoo said:

Broken in Awakening. Nerfed in Fates. TOO nerfed in Fates. Nerfed to the point that they were just downright terrible.

Minor nitpick, but disagree with this. They were pretty insane if used correctly with Pairup. In Attack stance, a unit would still perform a double if they had a brave weapon equipped. In Guard Stance, Brave weapons made it much easier to charge the guard meter and avoid taking damage.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Class and movement type specific skills. They allow different movement types to perform certain roles better and go a long way in making infantry and armors stand out against their mounted brethren.

In fact, the former used to exist in Jugdral/Tellius and returned for SoV, and they made each class feel more distinct in the latter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/13/2018 at 11:16 AM, Shoblongoo said:

I really like the way they balanced Brave Weapons and the Wary Fighter in Heroes.

The Wary Fighter skill was absolutely broken in Fates, and in need of some form of nerf. Now alot of times when a broken ability or weapon from an older game gets nerfed in a newer one, they go completely overboard. And the nerfed thing doesn't become balanced; it just becomes BAD. 

i.e. brave weapons

Broken in Awakening. Nerfed in Fates. TOO nerfed in Fates. Nerfed to the point that they were just downright terrible.

 Speed penalty for equipping + double strike effect only activating on player phase in Heroes makes them usably good weapons on slower, bulkier units. But  not something you're going to be running to equip on every physical unit that can wield them, becuase best weapons in the game (i.e. Awakening)

That reminds me, the same thing happened with Luna - it was busted (albeit situational) in Blazing Blade, but come Sacred Stones, it was nerfed to the point of being practically useless.

13 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Minor nitpick, but disagree with this. They were pretty insane if used correctly with Pairup. In Attack stance, a unit would still perform a double if they had a brave weapon equipped. In Guard Stance, Brave weapons made it much easier to charge the guard meter and avoid taking damage.

I dunno - I generally find brave weapons underwhelming for the price tag. 8000 gold for a weapon with the might of unforged iron and much worse accuracy, AND defense drops (for the melee weapons) or halved offense (for ranged weapons)??? Pass.

Edited by Shadow Mir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...