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Kebe

FE8 HM 0% Growths LTC (with commentary)

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On 12/8/2018 at 3:00 PM, Kebe said:
Spoiler

I Just Wanted An Excuse to Show How Great Vidofnir Is

5c0c2a5fcc30c_Screenshotfrom2018-12-0814-31-36.png.2b317b31d25d2b15883f46ce26bc3fbf.png vs 5c0c2b96234bd_GarmGerik.png.dbf68e5b47dbf3cedd2641a5c4a19899.png

Pictured to the left is a screenshot from Mekkah's 100% Growths playthrough. Level 10 Seth, with his capped 25 Strength, attempts to OHKO the Gorgon boss with Vidofnir, but fails. Pictured to the right is 0% Growths Gerik OHKOing that same Gorgon boss with Garm.

 

I  wonder what in the name of Duma the devs were thinking when they "balanced" Vidofnir... Barely any stronger than a silver lance, and its defense boost isn't that helpful in the grand scheme of things thanks to the avoid formula being as generous as it is. To be fair, it's better than Gleipnir, but that's not saying much. 

Anyway, I've been watching this form the beginning, and I like it.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Chapter 19 is completed in 1 turn

Chapter 19 Notes

Spoiler

New Items:

Ivaldi Ivaldi

S Rank Light tome, 17 Mt., 90 hit, 10 weight, 5 crit, 30 uses, 1 WExp. Grants Defense +5, and double might versus Monsters. 

Another serviceable legendary weapon that doesn't see any use due to our lack of potential users

Latona Latona Staff

S Rank Staff. 3 uses, 10 Exp, 1 WExp, heals all player units to full and Restores their condition (excluding user).

Latona comes pretty late, and so its utility is pretty limited even in a regular run. However, that doesn't really matter, since we don't even have a S Staff unit yet. Moulder is working towards it though, and so we'll be able to use it for the Final Chapter. The bosses in the Final Chapter deal absurd amounts of damage, and so being able to heal our units to full allows us to engage those bosses multiple times without dying, which is important because those same bosses are very tough to kill. The infinite range is also pretty important, and make it superior to other staves like Recover or Physic (not that either of those staves exist in this run).

---

I guess I'll also note that we missed out on good amounts of treasure and droppable items that we can't really obtain during a 1 turn clear. The most notable of these is the Speedwing, although things like Bolting or the Brave weapons could've been cool too.

 

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Chapter 20 is completed in 2 turns

Chapter 20 Notes

Spoiler

New Mechanics/Concepts:

Turn 1 Possibilities, and why only Saleh + Moulder works

So when considering ways to 2 turn this map, you can essentially boil down this map (or any Seize map, for that matter) to two primary objectives that have to be done:

1) Have the bosskiller (Gerik) be able to reach and kill the boss

2) Have the lord (Ephraim) be able to reach the throne and Seize

So getting these two things done is our main focus. Another thing you quickly realize is that, at least for this playthrough, one of these two have to be in position to do their task (kill boss/Seize) by the end of Turn 1. You can probably also figure that it's a lot easier for Gerik to do this than Ephraim. The only way to get Gerik in range to kill the boss next turn was to do that maneuver at the beginning of the turn with Tana and Moulder, which costed all of: Tana's turn, Moulder's turn, Tethys's turn, and 1 Warp. Essentially, I'm establishing that the method to get Gerik's part of the strategy done is set in stone and costly (we have one less flier, no Warp, and no dance available for the rest of Turn 1).

Meanwhile, Ephraim's side of things has a lot more possibilities, or at least that's what it seems like at first. The idea goes as follows: Ephraim is right of the lake that separates the middle strip of land from the boss area. Then, Moulder Warps Ephraim just barely across the lake, and boom, Ephraim can Seize. Alternative ways to get Ephraim to the throne would require something like getting a Rescue user or Tethys to the boss area, which isn't happening, so we do this instead. Now, what can we do on Turn 1 to prepare for this Turn 2 Warp? Well, with enough thinking, we can think of multiple ways that would make this work, and they all involve rescuedropping at least two people past the mountains, directly onto the middle strip of land. One of those people should be Moulder, since he has to Warp, but the other person simply needs to help get Ephraim into position. I thought of three combinations which all work, in theory:

Moulder + Ephraim (probably the most obvious one, just drop Ephraim directly where he needs to be, no need for shenanigans)

Moulder + Tethys (the idea is that Ephraim can be rescuedropped on Turn 2 to where he needs to be, and then Tethys dances him so he can Seize after the Warp. The appeal of this is that Tethys's rescuedrop to the middle strip would be more lenient than Ephraim's, since Ephraim would need to be at an exact spot, while Tethys doesn't)

Moulder + Rescue Staff User [Saleh] (the idea is that Ephraim gets Rescue Staff'd to the spot he needs to be, then Moulder follows up with the chapter-winning Warp. Like with Tethys, the main appeal of this is that Saleh's drop point would be more lenient than Ephraim's)

However, only one of these actually works out in practice. Recall all that was needed to get Gerik where he needed to be. If we still had, say, Warp available, we could just Warp Ephraim where he needs to be. Or maybe we could still have that fourth flier around, which gives us just enough to get two rescuedrops past the mountains. Or even if we didn't have the fourth flier, but a dance instead, we could still get the two rescuedrops. But the fact remains, we have none of those. All we have to get our two rescuedrops past the mountains are three fliers, and it just doesn't add up, no matter how hard you try. It's around this point where you start contemplating various things, from "Why doesn't Myrrh have mounted Aid and Canto?!" to "Why don't Berserkers have more move on mountains?" to "Thickets have to be the worst terrain type ever conceived." We're so ridiculously close to finding the solution, finding the 2 turn, there's no way we can settle for less at this point.

And thankfully, we don't have to. It still is true that we need four units to get the two rescuedrops off, and we only have three fliers available. The key is to somehow get another mounted unit to participate in the rescuedrops, somehow get a mounted unit to get past the mountains, at least somewhat. That's where the solution in the actual clear comes into play. Saleh, with his promoted movement and favorable starting position, can Rescue Staff Seth forward, and then Seth can rescue Saleh. Seth can just barely move around the mountain such that Syrene can drop Saleh, and so we can have both Moulder and a Rescue Staff user in that area on Turn 1, which allows us to get the 2 turn. I suppose that technically, Seth could've rescued Tethys instead of Saleh after getting Rescue Staff'd, but that's just not worth it. 

What a map.

Using Hammerne on Rescue instead of Warp?

I've seen a fair amount of LTCs. And in every single one that has both Hammerne and Warp coexisting, the Hammerne uses get used on Warp, no questions asked (except in FE3, where Hammerne can't be used on Warp, or any staff for that matter). So having to deviate from this and not Hammerne Warp is just really weird, at least to me. It just doesn't make sense in terms of efficiency: Warp is not only easier to use for the most part, but it also straight up has more uses, you get the most transport staff uses possible by Hammerning Warp over and over, why would I give that up? The answer is that Rescue is just more useful in this run. We only have Moulder as a Warper, and he's not that proficient at it. Meanwhile, we have two other people who are capable of using Rescue, so Rescue is just easier to use, and has wider applications. The other thing is that there's not much of the game left after we get Warp. Perhaps if we had more chapters to work with, we would be able to get Warp Saleh or something, and then Hammerning Warp would be more useful, and maybe even needed due to having more uses than Rescue. But there just isn't that much left, and we can just about power through the rest of the game with Rescue. I just don't see where more Warp uses could save any turns in this run. Meanwhile, Rescue is very important, not only for this strategy, but for the final chapter as well. 

Since the end of this run is upon us, I will be having a QnA session during the Epilogue in the next video. Feel free to post any questions you may have and would like me to answer for that video. Basically anything goes, as long as it isn't too personal.

Hope you guys have a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year! :^]

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On 12/21/2018 at 12:30 PM, Kebe said:

Hope you guys have a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year! :^]

Merry Christmas to you.

I bring you this season the gift of questions.

Why "Kebe?"

With this being such a long term project, are you relieved or a bit melancholy about it being over?

Things like getting Ross experience in several chapters and wearing down weapons to a certain point show that some factors needed to be considered over large spans of time. Was there a point where you discovered or decided on a certain tactic which forced you to reevaluate a large portion of the run and your strategy for it?

When planning this run, what chapter did you start with and what order did you formulate your strategies for them? What was the general structure of the planning process overall?

Edit: Also, what's your critical analysis of this game in particular, as well as the Fire Emblem series and it's tropes?

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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Units that turned out to be more / less useful than you had anticipated before you started the run? Any unit you'd consider an "unsung hero" of your run?

Chapters than turned out to be harder / easier than you had anticipated before you started the run?

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On 1/13/2019 at 8:16 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just a little something I came across and thought I'd mention, apparently Mekkah's taken notice of this runthrough and said some nice things about it. So maybe that's something you find nice.

ooo, I didn't even notice this one, that's cool

Mekkah has been aware of this run for a while now I believe, and I can only be glad that he's a big supporter of it. In fact, he shoutout'd me out in another video of his, and it was almost certainly due to that shoutout that I recently passed over 100 subscribers. It's just really cool, since his + dondon's runs were the biggest inspiration for this run, and he's a really good player + content creator too. Nothing but respect for the man. 

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@Kebe Congrats on the run so far. I’ve enjoyed it quite a bit. It is always great to see other good LTC players. 

I was especially impressed by your 6 turn clear of 5x. I was (to my knowledge) the first person to discover that the map was able to be done in 6 turns, but your strategy is a little bit different where you rescue drop Orsin on turn 2 instead of turn 1. 

Edit: lol, I forgot my own strat  the rescue drops are the same.

Are you familiar with the topic I made on here about it? If so, did you adjust it just because of the reliance on crits? Or was it to feed Forde a little bit more Exp?

Either way, I’m happy to see an alternate 6 turn clear. 

Edited by Hawk King

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On 1/26/2019 at 11:04 PM, Hawk King said:

@Kebe Congrats on the run so far. I’ve enjoyed it quite a bit. It is always great to see other good LTC players. 

I was especially impressed by your 6 turn clear of 5x. I was (to my knowledge) the first person to discover that the map was able to be done in 6 turns, but your strategy is a little bit different where you rescue drop Orsin on turn 2 instead of turn 1. 

Edit: lol, I forgot my own strat  the rescue drops are the same.

Are you familiar with the topic I made on here about it? If so, did you adjust it just because of the reliance on crits? Or was it to feed Forde a little bit more Exp?

Either way, I’m happy to see an alternate 6 turn clear. 

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Your post was indeed how I learned of the 5x 6 turn. I found it while researching some LTC strategies for this game, and found my strategy with help from that post. If I remember correctly, I am pretty sure that the main adjustments were so that Forde got some more exp. Forde only has so much time to get his 4 levels for Chapter 9, so even stuff like chip exp ended up being necessary. So I just optimized 5x as well as I could to accomodate for that, and it ended up working out in the end.

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Also I dunno if I already said this (I'm epic_Awesome Gameplays) from youtube but I really loved this LTC and you did a great job. 

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