Most unintentionally funny moment in Fire Emblem (spoiler warning)

[Eltosian Kadath]

7 minutes ago, CyberController said:

What about Rhajat and Hayato? Poor guy looks like he's 12, and his daughter looks like a grown woman.

That's an even starker contrast between parent and child, that must make there supports kinda silly (although admittedly I never liked the Birthright-Awakening Clone characters enough to find out)

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, CyberController said:

What about Rhajat and Hayato? Poor guy looks like he's 12, and his daughter looks like a grown woman.

This reminds me that Severa has a line saying she's the same age as her father. She says this even if her father is Gregor! 

[CyberController]

Lucina can kill her own dad. 

 

I just imagine her going “Fuck, fuck, fuck”

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, CyberController said:

Lucina can kill her own dad. 

 

I just imagine her going “Fuck, fuck, fuck”

Which begs the question why she even went to Regna Ferox and became the one proxy in the first place now that I think about it. Why?

If she intended to go there, because she knew it was about time for her daddy to face Lon'qu the proxy in her world, then that makes sense on the surface.

The issue is that if she went there to become proxy with the intent of using that position to meet Chrom and then tell him about the doomed future and try to stop it, which is the only thing that makes sense to me, then she failed. She told Chrom nothing there, why I don't know.

She seems to not want to tell Chrom about the future because she doesn't want to mess with time's flow too openly, but she going to RF only makes sense if she wanted to openly mess with time.

The idea she would just go to RF for kicks makes no sense given she came back in time not for fun, but to stop a hulking dragon and evil cult. Outside of the all-too-important Chrom/assassination save, she doesn't really do much during her time as "Marth". This doesn't seem right, and would have been easily correctible if the children had banded together somehow instead of just chillin elsewhere over two continents.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which begs the question why she even went to Regna Ferox and became the one proxy in the first place now that I think about it. Why?

If she intended to go there, because she knew it was about time for her daddy to face Lon'qu the proxy in her world, then that makes sense on the surface.

The issue is that if she went there to become proxy with the intent of using that position to meet Chrom and then tell him about the doomed future and try to stop it, which is the only thing that makes sense to me, then she failed. She told Chrom nothing there, why I don't know.

She seems to not want to tell Chrom about the future because she doesn't want to mess with time's flow too openly, but she going to RF only makes sense if she wanted to openly mess with time.

The idea she would just go to RF for kicks makes no sense given she came back in time not for fun, but to stop a hulking dragon and evil cult. Outside of the all-too-important Chrom/assassination save, she doesn't really do much during her time as "Marth". This doesn't seem right, and would have been easily correctible if the children had banded together somehow instead of just chillin elsewhere over two continents.

She was tight for cash and had no idea Chrom was going to show up. Wait...even that joke doesn't make sense since she enters the world in Chapter 1 and Chrom basically heads straight for Regna Ferox after a brief stay in the castle. The only way for Lucina to get there first and be established enough to become champion is if she made a beeline in that direction as soon as Chapter 1 was finished. Which means being at Regna Ferox one way or the other was vital to her. Maybe it was a meeting point for the other children? Or maybe it's just poor writing that was more concerned about getting shots for the trailer than making a choerent story.

[Interdimensional Observer]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or maybe it's just poor writing that was more concerned about getting shots for the trailer than making a choerent story.

The Chrom-Masked Marth duel gets wayyyy overemphasized for how little of the game it is. I'm sure other games have a similar issue where that one moment gets too much importance though, even if I can't name one right now. 

I've just realized said opening to Awakening, IIRC, has Emmeryn and Grima, representing the first and last arcs of the game, but I can't think of a single moment that is Valmese. You think that part of the game might be filler?

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Maybe it was a meeting point for the other children?

While I have continually criticized the absence of children beyond Lucina whatsoever in the plot (some would say this is true of most PCs, which IS true, but at least Sain (to pick anyone) is guaranteed to join and is thus implied to the entire time- you may never meet the kids at all), I will admit it is like this for a decent reason.

That reason being gameplay. Forced kids denies the player the freedom to pair at the pace of their own leisure, it would also get rid of the hair color choice via breeding. I don't think it is impossible to have the kids in the story without pairing getting in the way (hoods, implied stuff offscreen sometimes mentioned onscreen, fixed good stats if no pairing and on a map as an unrecruitable NPC), but it is easier if they aren't.

And BTW, I'm a gameplay >>>> plot person (generally speaking), if I wasn't, I wouldn't have done as I have and mashed start through every moment of Fates and SoV's stories. So I can understand the tradeoff. Even more when you consider that unlike FE4, where every Gaius and Gaia can be fielded and thus accruing love, you can only bring a handful of units to a given fight in FE13. Without constant unit rotation or grinding, you will have spinsters. The total gameplay freedom of Awakening means you can make a full set of  Galeforce babies, just a handful of nonoptimals, or practice abstinence and pair not at all barring Lucina (which is 9/10 runs how I played).

Nonetheless, I can say all this and still have a valid criticism.

[Hawkwing]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which begs the question why she even went to Regna Ferox and became the one proxy in the first place now that I think about it. Why?

If she intended to go there, because she knew it was about time for her daddy to face Lon'qu the proxy in her world, then that makes sense on the surface.

*Goes to TV Tropes Headscratchers page for Awakening*

It's possible that in the bad future, Lon'qu won the fight, and Ylisse didn't get Feroxi's aid for the war, thus prolonging it. And/Or Lucina was trying to sent up a deal that no matter which side won, the winning Khan would support Ylisse. And/Or She was looking for one of the Fire Emblem Jewels, and got roped into becoming Basilios champion. A combination of the above?

Perhaps the fight itself was just Lucina testing her might against Chrom? With Gameplay and Story Segregation in play?

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The issue is that if she went there to become proxy with the intent of using that position to meet Chrom and then tell him about the doomed future and try to stop it, which is the only thing that makes sense to me, then she failed. She told Chrom nothing there, why I don't know.

She seems to not want to tell Chrom about the future because she doesn't want to mess with time's flow too openly, but she going to RF only makes sense if she wanted to openly mess with time.

What would she gain from telling Chrom anything? The plan was to make a few changes in order to avoid a bad future. She has no reason at all to tell anyone that she's from the future. Indeed, she only does so when she accidentally reveals that she's Chrom's daughter, and thus has nothing left to hide.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The idea she would just go to RF for kicks makes no sense given she came back in time not for fun, but to stop a hulking dragon and evil cult. Outside of the all-too-important Chrom/assassination save, she doesn't really do much during her time as "Marth". This doesn't seem right, and would have been easily correctible if the children had banded together somehow instead of just chillin elsewhere over two continents.

It's outright stated that the children got separated, and some of them entered at different times. Considering that their paralogues occur across the entire world map, banding together would be extremely difficult to coordinate.

Of course, Laurent arrived a full three years early, but what he did with that time is a can of worms in and of itself (ah, the downsides of being optional. On the other hand, it's very possible that he just plain got caught up in side adventures trying to look for the shepherds/other children, and those ate up a few years).

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Perhaps the fight itself was just Lucina testing her might against Chrom? With Gameplay and Story Segregation in play?

I mean the official comic kind of confirms that in the last panel.

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

I mean the official comic kind of confirms that in the last panel.

Haha. I like the implication that Lon'Qu was outright better than her, but lost because he accidentally copped a feel. Looking for the gemstone is also a decentish explanation (though let's all bear in mind again that this is the first thing she does as soon as she's in the world, she heads directly here with no detours), though it does beg the question as to why she gave up or was apparently completely unsuccessful at finding any of the stones during the three year time skip.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Hawkwing said:

It's outright stated that the children got separated, and some of them entered at different times. Considering that their paralogues occur across the entire world map, banding together would be extremely difficult to coordinate.

Chicken or the egg? Did they decide the children would be scattered before they considered the plot and gameplay implications of this? Or did they first make a plot/gameplay decision, and then decide to justify it with lore?

Having each child in their own totally separate location seems awfully convenient. Why is it not even two of them ever met up again, or that they ended up in the same location? Some Risen followed Lucina through her wormhole's path, it is therefore not absolutely required by metaphysical law then that everyone ends up alone.

Other stories with timespace crossings use individuals who go astray at different times, but also have groups that get through together without issue. To think on Super Robot Taisen: Original Generations 2, a cliched case of this, Axel and Lamia ended up apart from Vindel and the rest of the Shadow Mirrors, Lamia arrived later than them, whereas Axel crossed last, but came out on the other side months earlier than anyone else.

And as I also said, I can accept gameplay taking priority over plot, which I do think it did here. And this isn't just me picking on Fire Emblem, Tales of Graces is just awfully safe and undercooked with its plot, but at least it is fun to play. FE even has a gameplay-connected excuse for the plot problem here, Graces has none.

 

9 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

I mean the official comic kind of confirms that in the last panel.

Gemstone security confirmation works well enough for me as an excuse. If they're secure, no fear that Grima will return, thus averting the doomed future (of course, she didn't expect Grima themselves to follow and upset that). It also keeps her from having to intervene more directly.

The excuse she wanted to test herself, well that is slightly unusual for a female (Mia being an exception), so that is somewhat refreshing, because Lucina is no Ike.

 

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

though it does beg the question as to why she gave up or was apparently completely unsuccessful at finding any of the stones during the three year time skip.

Presumably she realized the assassination was coming and needed to prioritize stopping that. That the course of current events thus deviated after the assassination failed, led her to need to keep tabs on them as opposed to assuming to know what was happening.

Also, three years? I think the post-Gangrel arc skip is one year. And I don't think she wanted the Gemstones for herself, why put them all in one basket? She only sought to make sure they were protected as is. Lucina might not even be confident enough in herself to trust herself with protecting any of them.

[CyberController]

On 7/24/2018 at 12:38 PM, BrightBow said:

I'm sorry, I never finished Conquest. This is a Takumi quote? Takumi never betrayed anyone as far as I recall.

Well he did, but not in Conquest.

Use Sofie on any boss in Fates. You'll then have them having dramatic conversations while wearing nothing but their undies.

[NekoKnight]

On 7/25/2018 at 4:38 AM, BrightBow said:

I'm sorry, I never finished Conquest. This is a Takumi quote? Takumi never betrayed anyone as far as I recall.

Spoiler

Have you ever been so angry you actually become betrayal?

Edited July 26, 2018 by NekoKnight

[Hawkwing]

18 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chicken or the egg? Did they decide the children would be scattered before they considered the plot and gameplay implications of this? Or did they first make a plot/gameplay decision, and then decide to justify it with lore?

Having each child in their own totally separate location seems awfully convenient. Why is it not even two of them ever met up again, or that they ended up in the same location? Some Risen followed Lucina through her wormhole's path, it is therefore not absolutely required by metaphysical law then that everyone ends up alone.

Other stories with timespace crossings use individuals who go astray at different times, but also have groups that get through together without issue. To think on Super Robot Taisen: Original Generations 2, a cliched case of this, Axel and Lamia ended up apart from Vindel and the rest of the Shadow Mirrors, Lamia arrived later than them, whereas Axel crossed last, but came out on the other side months earlier than anyone else.

...Why in the world would it be a chicken and the egg situation? Lucina directly states that they intended to come together, but where separated via time time travel shenanigans. A reason why Laurent pays so much attention to detail is because a minor mistake led to him being sent three years ahead of time! It's no stretch to say that the rest of the children landed in different locations at different times, some years apart, due to these alterations.

It would also explain why the risen spell covers such a wide area; some of the children brought them with them while going back in time, thus placing the curse there. As it's outright stated that Lucina dealt with the other half of the risen threat from the second chapter of the game on her own, it isn't a stretch to say that they other children eradicated their accidental traveling buddies without issue. It's also possible that some of them didn't bring along any risen with them (again, Laurent arrived three years early, yet it appears that this is one of the first times a zombie-like threat has occurred around Ylisse).

That, and none of them knew where to look for each other. Some landed on the same continent, yes, but considering how hard it can be to find a specific person in something as simple as a city in real life, it's not hard to assume some of them just plain didn't bother looking for the others, and proceeded on their own. Them arriving at different times, maybe even years apart, doesn't aid them in the slightest.

18 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And as I also said, I can accept gameplay taking priority over plot, which I do think it did here. And this isn't just me picking on Fire Emblem, Tales of Graces is just awfully safe and undercooked with its plot, but at least it is fun to play. FE even has a gameplay-connected excuse for the plot problem here, Graces has none.

The paralogues as a whole are treated largely as gameplay and story segregation. Why in the world would Chrom and co. spend time looking for a magical staff in the desert, or aid a villiage that's clearly on an island, or happen upon several of the bandit groups were the children are recruited?

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

Haha. I like the implication that Lon'Qu was outright better than her, but lost because he accidentally copped a feel. Looking for the gemstone is also a decentish explanation (though let's all bear in mind again that this is the first thing she does as soon as she's in the world, she heads directly here with no detours), though it does beg the question as to why she gave up or was apparently completely unsuccessful at finding any of the stones during the three year time skip.

It's possible that the gemstone was just one among several different tasks she had going on there (such as ensuring that Chrom won, and/or that Feroxi would support Ylisse). Afterwards, Emmryns assassination attempt and the subsequent war took all of her attention.

Also, the time skip was two years.

As for why she didn't keep looking afterwards, maybe she couldn't make a convincing enough disguise to go back there and ask about it without being recognized as "Marth"? Not the most convincing excuse, but considering Lucina's bizarre taste in fashion, she might have known that anything she tried would have made her even more conspicuous, and just dropped the whole idea. After all, Feroxi and Ylisse where allies at that point, so Chrom would have been informed if anything happened to the gemstone.

[Interdimensional Observer]

34 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

...Why in the world would it be a chicken and the egg situation? Lucina directly states that they intended to come together, but where separated via time time travel shenanigans. A reason why Laurent pays so much attention to detail is because a minor mistake led to him being sent three years ahead of time! It's no stretch to say that the rest of the children landed in different locations at different times, some years apart, due to these alterations.

 

I was speaking from a development perspective. Did did the programmers go "Hey, about this breeding children thing, it'd be easier if we put every kid in their own chapter. Can you writer guys find a way to justify this?". Or did the writers go "Hey, we've decided to separate all the children due to timespace complexities. Programmers, make sure each child is separate from the rest when they show up on the battlefield.". Somebody had to pitch the idea first, we'll never know who exactly though, so I can't definitively say this was a gameplay choice over narrative one.

And to be fair, it isn't like being forced to exist (or replaced with subs at least) made the 2nd Gen of Genealogy all that relevant. Unless you're Seliph, and slightly Leif and Altena, you don't truly matter at all in the scheme of things. These three, like Julia, Lewyn and all the villains, are fixed characters, anyone who is a variable is a nobody in the details of the plot, like in Awakening. You exist and presumably helped, but have zero actual accomplishments attributable to you (like most FE characters bred or not actually).

 

40 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

The paralogues as a whole are treated largely as gameplay and story segregation. Why in the world would Chrom and co. spend time looking for a magical staff in the desert, or aid a villiage that's clearly on an island, or happen upon several of the bandit groups were the children are recruited?

And this owing to how FE13 in this case favors almost always letting players do things at their own leisure as opposed to being forced to do things at certain times. Even Gaiden and Sacred Stones, the predecessors with open worlds, had times where you were locked into multiple consecutive battles without access to the world map.

I have nothing wrong with letting players be leisurely, it's just a tradeoff that ends up being made.

Prior optional chapters in FE, were admittedly in some measure removed from the main plot, for the obvious reason of being optional, if they were too attached, it'd be awful if they were totally missable. Nonetheless, some of these tried to do something relevant, Blazing's Night of Farewells and Port of Badon are so not-fillerish, that one can forget they are optional, plus A Glimpse in Time contains an important revelation concerning the big bad. Though of course, FE7 has its own optional chapter issues, the three chapters of Kishuna stuff there reeks of a "what is the point to this?" subplot. 

[Lightchao42]

This isn't anything that happened in game, but the rationale for including Lyn in Warriors is that she's the "American Marth", because she's the first FE character many people outside Japan were exposed to (Melee notwithstanding).

But as a Godzilla fan this makes me think that Marth should have the Lynbreaker skill in Heroes, considering what happened when Japanese Godzilla met Zilla/the first "American Godzilla".

Spoiler

To be fair to Zilla, Godzilla wiped the floor with everyone in that movie, though 13 seconds is still a record as far as fight scenes go.

 

[Hawkwing]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was speaking from a development perspective. Did did the programmers go "Hey, about this breeding children thing, it'd be easier if we put every kid in their own chapter. Can you writer guys find a way to justify this?". Or did the writers go "Hey, we've decided to separate all the children due to timespace complexities. Programmers, make sure each child is separate from the rest when they show up on the battlefield.". Somebody had to pitch the idea first, we'll never know who exactly though, so I can't definitively say this was a gameplay choice over narrative one.

It was probably both. It was a win-win situation for both sides, as the developers didn't need to worry about designing a level that was balanced for two potentially very different characters, while the writers could focus on ensuring that each level was a good introduction to the character in question. Narrative and gameplay can go hand in hand, you know?

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And to be fair, it isn't like being forced to exist (or replaced with subs at least) made the 2nd Gen of Genealogy all that relevant. Unless you're Seliph, and slightly Leif and Altena, you don't truly matter at all in the scheme of things. These three, like Julia, Lewyn and all the villains, are fixed characters, anyone who is a variable is a nobody in the details of the plot, like in Awakening. You exist and presumably helped, but have zero actual accomplishments attributable to you (like most FE characters bred or not actually).

This is true, but it's also only mostly true. Genealogy was in the minimalist era of game writing, but it did keep careful attention to the...well Genealogy of all the child units. That is to say, if they were inheriting any kingdoms at the end of the game due to being the likes of Jamka or Lex's children. And during the game there are bonus conversations of Levin and Finn's children and of course certain units inheriting Holy Weapons. So while yes, the game doesn't give any direct plot focus to its eugenics units (and I'd actually put that down to perma death more than anything else), it does keep the idea clear that these are important people in the world with histories and relationships with other characters using little things (Tinny's convos with Blume are the most obvious example, but there's more subtle ones like the conversation with Brigid or Adean's children when fighting Scipio is another such example). To the extent that when it comes to the interequal, characters like Ced can become a major Gotoh Archtype without it feeling strange at all.

Or maybe to put it all a different way, the 2nd Gen units aren't really any more irrelevant than most of the first Gen ones, where the entire cast is fixed (perma death aside).

Edited July 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Jingle Jangle]

For me is in Radiant Dawn, where Pelleas attempted to break the Blood Contract by saying Micaiah need to kill him due to him signing the plot device, only after his death it was for nothing. When I first reacted to that, I thought that was stupid, and still think so.

[Arcphoenix]

Roy's training tutorial in FE6. Unlike your typical guided tutorials (eg: FE7 and FE8) you can pretty much screw around however you want. I admittedly did this the first time - acting like the worst possible student - out of boredom. I even tossed out weapons or traded with incompatible ones. XD

 

Whenever anyone falls, they say something along the lines of "Don't worry Roy, I'm ok. But if this was real combat, I'd be dead and not come back."

They still have faith in Roy (and follow him anyway if you consider this canon and connected to your own playthrough), even if you're playing the tutorial in the worst possible way XD

Edited July 27, 2018 by Arcphoenix

[CyberController]

[BrightBow]

5 hours ago, CyberController said:

 

Well, she is not wrong.

I'm just surprised she actually gets paid. I thought she was Corrin's slave.

[CyberController]

6 hours ago, BrightBow said:

 

Well, she is not wrong.

I'm just surprised she actually gets paid. I thought she was Corrin's slave.

I mean,  now she has to do twice the work. I guess Corrin feels bad for her and gives her some money.

I reclassed Corrin to a Dark Knight. Her outfit revealed her panties, so now she looks really silly in serious cutscenes.

 

[NekoKnight]

21 hours ago, CyberController said:

This scene was kind of funny to me because I was playing the Japanese version and reading very slowly to parse the language. Flora was monologuing while burning to death...for a long time.

Edited July 29, 2018 by NekoKnight

[CyberController]

Niles will say "Hmm, what's this? Another piece for my collection?, when he gives you an item.,

 

The image of someone like Niles collecting things like rice or daikons is quite funny.

[Light Strategist]

On 25/07/2018 at 3:58 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

In Awakening, with the smallest body type female MU as Lucina's mother,  when Lucina embraces her mother after chapter 13, it looks far more like Lucina is the mother, which makes that whole scene extra silly.

What about Sumia/Sully as a Great Knight in that scenario? Just the whole concept of them as a towering monstrosity is rather amusing. Particularly when Lucina's head clips through the armour.

Awakening's Critical animations for Tricksters, Thieves and Assassins reminds me of something from my childhood...

AH YES! IT WAS THIS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjXohtL7CP4

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Light Strategist