New Feh Channel on the 19th at 8:30 PM PDT (check your time zones)

[Rezzy]

9 minutes ago, Motendra said:

To be fair, with regards to new (as in completely new and not an alt nor seasonal) characters, the era that's gotten the most is actually GBA. The only other time Awakening got another at all, past FeRobin was The Branded King with the Morgans & Gerome (Grima in Fallen Heroes is a technicality depending on how you look at it, so I omitted them) a year later. Gba, on the other hand, has continually been getting more and more characters since launch as time goes on:

• Family Bonds (February 15, 2017): 2
• Sibling Bonds (February 27, 20177): 1
• Blazing Shadows (March 14, 2017): 6
• Sacred World (August 15, 2017): 4
• Far'fetched Heroes (November 15, 2017): 4
• Sacred Memories (January 25, 2018): 2
• Scattered Fangs (June 8, 2018): 2

Out of these, Binding has only 1, Sacred at  7, and Blazing at 9. In total for the era, that makes 21. Throw in GHB and that makes 27 ; 1 for Sacred, 2 for Binding while 3 for Blazing for a 3/8/11 comparison.

Next we have 3DS:

• Children of Fate (December 4, 2017): 4
• The Branded King (March 9, 2018): 3
• Wings of Fate (April 24, 2018): 2
• Ylissean Travelers (current): 3

Out of this? 6 from Awakening, 6 for Fates. Total of 12. GHB included makes 16 ; 2 for both games, making an even 8/8

Awakening has so many in the catalogue, only because there's at least one alt/seasonal for like every other person (with the only ones who don't at all being Lon'qu, Virion, Cherche, Donny Sully, Stahl & Gerome; 7 units). Otherwise, their representation is actually pretty fair, coming from just one game. The actual surprising thing is how it took over a year for the most popular game to gain a single new unit, as opposed to everywhere else that started from the jump. Even more surprising that Binding is the only game that still hasn't since the first month of launch (3 months when you include Zephiel).

Mind you, that this is all without alts taken to consideration

It's sad when we've reached almost literal saturation with 3DS alts before we even get new characters for 3DS.

[HK Motendra]

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 I wasn't talking about just Awakening, I was talking about Fates too, and I was also including the many seasonal alts the 3DS games have gotten as well. Sure, last year, they were just trying to be safe since the 3DS games sold the most, but this year they're still throwing a 3DS character or two into almost every one of them. :/

Tellius has only gotten a total of three banners, two for PoR, one for RD, and almost no seasonals. And the last Tellius banner was six months ago.

FE6 hasn't gotten a banner dedicated to it at all. Nothing except Klein in one banner and a couple alts early this year.

I really think this banner should've been one of those two.

 

If we're talking overall, then yes you'd be right on the money. But we're talking new units, and these are new units. Lumping them with the overload of 3DS seasonals just wouldn't be fair, considering how this is their debut (granted, with one more alt, but still).

Tellius has the burden of not being at launch, with Sanaki as the only person before its official debut almost 3 months later. You also forgot about Mia 2 months after the 2nd PoR banner with Far'fetched Heroes :p

I made edits to my original post, cause I apparently can't count. There's Narcian and Zephiel as well for GHBs

46 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

It's sad when we've reached almost literal saturation with 3DS alts before we even get new characters for 3DS.

Rinkah & Orochi, when?

[Othin]

Why are we talking about characters added since launch rather than total characters?

Archanea, Elibe, and the 3DS games started out with a bunch of characters, while the others started out with zero. FE6's starting roster of 13 characters is the same as the entire number of unique Tellius characters in the game right now. Counting Klein and the alts, they're still tied, at 17 units.

It'd be nice to get an FE6 banner eventually, but let's not ignore its huge head start that a lot of games have been catching up to. And certainly not for Awakening: it started with 19 units, and by now it has 28 characters (counting male/female splits and Walhart, but not Grima) and 49 total units.

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Rinkah & Orochi, when?

I thought we would have gotten Vaike before we got Libra.

[Anacybele]

29 minutes ago, Motendra said:

If we're talking overall, then yes you'd be right on the money. But we're talking new units, and these are new units. Lumping them with the overload of 3DS seasonals just wouldn't be fair, considering how this is their debut (granted, with one more alt, but still).

Tellius has the burden of not being at launch, with Sanaki as the only person before its official debut almost 3 months later. You also forgot about Mia 2 months after the 2nd PoR banner with Far'fetched Heroes :p

Mia didn't share her banner with other Tellius characters. I'm talking about an actual Tellius banner.

FE7 had a bunch of units at launch too. Lyn, Hector, Eliwood, Nino, Florina, etc. And then got the biggest banner this game ever had, and then more recently, the Black Fang banner. That's only two banners total, but still nothing stopped IS from giving banners to games that already had units at launch.

[Rezzy]

22 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Mia didn't share her banner with other Tellius characters. I'm talking about an actual Tellius banner.

FE7 had a bunch of units at launch too. Lyn, Hector, Eliwood, Nino, Florina, etc. And then got the biggest banner this game ever had, and then more recently, the Black Fang banner. That's only two banners total, but still nothing stopped IS from giving banners to games that already had units at launch.

Having roughly only one regular banner a month due to seasonals makes pretty much every continent feel like it's getting new characters at an agonizingly slow pace.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Having roughly only one regular banner a month due to seasonals makes pretty much every continent feel like it's getting new characters at an agonizingly slow pace.

Yeah, true. I like seasonals, but I do admit that I think we're getting them a bit too much lately.

[Rezzy]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Yeah, true. I like seasonals, but I do admit that I think we're getting them a bit too much lately.

I think the next one is a seasonal, too.  If it's a third summer banner, I'm going to facepalm.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I think the next one is a seasonal, too.  If it's a third summer banner, I'm going to facepalm.

Yeah, I'd prefer if it wasn't a summer banner too. Though if it has Ike and Elincia, I can't really complain. xP

[Fire Emblem Fan]

SUMMER BROM WHEN?!

If the next banner, excluding the Legendary one, is seasonal, I kinda want something...unique? Something akin to the Performing Arts one, but not a rerun or same theme as that. Something that will mix characters more and not go so heavy with Awakening and Fates, of course, but maybe something less festival-y and more...I dunno. Plain?

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

SUMMER BROM WHEN?!

If the next banner, excluding the Legendary one, is seasonal, I kinda want something...unique? Something akin to the Performing Arts one, but not a rerun or same theme as that. Something that will mix characters more and not go so heavy with Awakening and Fates, of course, but maybe something less festival-y and more...I dunno. Plain?

A dad bod to end all dad bods.

I wish we got something unique, but I honestly can't think of what they'd go with.  We already get non-Seasonal alts in regular banners.

[Anacybele]

Flying healer Elincia! She's canonically a flying healer and we don't have one of those in Heroes yet. That's a big reason I want her so bad. The other being, of course, that she's best girl to me.

[HK Motendra]

14 hours ago, Othin said:

Why are we talking about characters added since launch rather than total characters?

Archanea, Elibe, and the 3DS games started out with a bunch of characters, while the others started out with zero. FE6's starting roster of 13 characters is the same as the entire number of unique Tellius characters in the game right now. Counting Klein and the alts, they're still tied, at 17 units.

It'd be nice to get an FE6 banner eventually, but let's not ignore its huge head start that a lot of games have been catching up to. And certainly not for Awakening: it started with 19 units, and by now it has 28 characters (counting male/female splits and Walhart, but not Grima) and 49 total units.

See, that was just to make a point in regards to Awakening getting new characters

When compared to all the other starting worlds, Binding got the short end and remains that way, which is the point I'm going for that I say, as one who never played FE6 (past CH6, anyway).

I'm not discrediting others that had to hit the ground running for not being at launch; only that they had any growth at all (at a snail's pace now, yes, with still plenty of room but any growth is good growth). All the while FE6 has remained completely stagnant (granted, the only thing worse than that is Thracia for having to wait just as long to even officially debut and only reaching half of that). Whatever number you start at, mathematically speaking,  if it shows no sign of growth, it becomes a problem in the long run. Small growth > no growth any day

All that being said, I can't say that it's not to be expected considering how FE6 was riding on Young Simba throughout CYL1. Just really disappointing in my opinion

Edited July 22, 2018 by Motendra
correction

[Sunwoo]

37 minutes ago, Motendra said:

All that being said, I can't say that it's not to be expected considering how FE6 was riding on Young Simba throughout CYL1. Just really disappointing in my opinion

Rude. Eliwood is no Mufasa, he's one of the few parents of a lord who actually survives his kid's game

I don't think Heroes has handled introduction of new characters all that well. Maybe seasonal banners are to blame for some of it, but there wasn't any reason to leave out all of Jugdral, Magvel, and Tellius on launch. Or for Thracia's first banner and lord to arrive after the first year anniversary and with two alts.

[Lau]

Just putting this out there - Archanea has only had one banner too, being the New Mystery banner. Though, it has had a few GHB - Navarre, Camus, Michalis, Legion and Clarisse.

But really, Binding Blade and Archanea are long overdue banners.

[TheWill]

9 hours ago, Motendra said:

Lumping them with the overload of 3DS seasonals just wouldn't be fair, considering how this is their debut (granted, with one more alt, but still).

How so? When seasonals make up two whole weeks worth of content for the game, it seems disingenuous to exclude seasonals given how they've essentially a core aspect of this game. 

The Awakening/Fates "dick sucking" is obviously an issue that encompasses seasonals and regular releases. Even if you exclude seasonals, the examples you provided... have been biased as of recently. Having to wait 4.5 months before having a second banner is extremely little considering Blazing Shadows fans had to wait more than a year before getting a second Blazing Shadows banner. Similarly, Path of Radiance fans have been waiting since the Dauntless Crimeans banner which was what? 10 months ago?

[HK Motendra]

11 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Rude. Eliwood is no Mufasa, he's one of the few parents of a lord who actually survives his kid's game

I don't think Heroes has handled introduction of new characters all that well. Maybe seasonal banners are to blame for some of it, but there wasn't any reason to leave out all of Jugdral, Magvel, and Tellius on launch. Or for Thracia's first banner and lord to arrive after the first year anniversary and with two alts.

It's a cool name, accuracy be damned!

3 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

How so? When seasonals make up two whole weeks worth of content for the game, it seems disingenuous to exclude seasonals given how they've essentially a core aspect of this game. 

The Awakening/Fates "dick sucking" is obviously an issue that encompasses seasonals and regular releases. Even if you exclude seasonals, the examples you provided... have been biased as of recently. Having to wait 4.5 months before having a second banner is extremely little considering Blazing Shadows fans had to wait more than a year before getting a second Blazing Shadows banner. Similarly, Path of Radiance fans have been waiting since the Dauntless Crimeans banner which was what? 10 months ago?

You're missing the point here. I'm speaking in terms of each game's (and era) overall representation, by the number of different characters each one has. In that respect, Awakening started with 18 and is currently at 24 (25 when they bring out Walhart); hardly a biased growth rate when it took a whole year to get any at all. Blazing Sword is only 3 units behind them at 22, and it started with 10. In the lifespan of a year and a half, Blazing Sword has doubled in size and closing its gap between it and Awakening. You're saying there's a problem with that?

Meanwhile, Fates started with 29 and currently sits at 38. The only world that comes close to that (with still a noticeable gap) is Mystery, which started at 22 (where Blazing is now) and sits at 30 (one more to what Fates started with), and that's only cause it spans 2 games (a repeated cast, yes, but still applies). Going back to Elibe, all together is at 36; two units away from matching Fates. Add in Sacred Stones' 13 and the GBA total is 49. Referring to my other post, since launch, GBA has gained 24 new characters, while 3DS (not including all but Faye and Berkut of Echoes, out of virtue of being a remake) has gained 19. Mathematically speaking, GBA has had more additions than any other, and on an individual game basis, Blazing takes the crown.

It's easy to make sweeping conclusions when you lump everything together, but looking at each one individually is where the discrepancies lie. Even with the highest era increase of 24, Binding still only got three of them. Even with being part of the era with the highest number of units along with all the content it's provided (story, paralogues, Tempest Trials etc), Awakening is still (relatively) modest for what it started with. While Fates didn't add much higher than that and also waited almost a year, that it had an overwhelming head start suggests that it ought to slow down, though it speaks a different story if you count Hoshido [12 at launch, 3 additions] and Nohr[15 at launch, 2 additions] separately (excluding both Corrins, Azura, both Kannas & Shigure for technically being both), since Fates is essentially two games in one.

Seasonals really are just one way to bring more attention to each game that's featured. How much each game gets is another topic entirely. No matter how many alts Awakening has, or how prominent they are in content, they're still at 24 different (keyword) characters in its catalog, which isn't bad; two more than Blazing, six less than Mystery. twice the latter's gap toward Fates.

Which again, I say, with all of those numbers taken into consideration: Awakening getting this banner to themselves isn't a problem

Edited July 22, 2018 by Motendra
punctuation

[Interdimensional Observer]

19 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Which again, I say, with all of those numbers taken into consideration: Awakening getting this banner to themselves isn't a problem

Gotta agree, Awakening hasn't had a 1st Gen New Heroes Banner before and it's been over a year, let it have it.

Speaking of Blazing and Awakening. Blazing has a playable cast of 44, counting Nils and Ninian separately. Awakening has 51 counting the Robgans twice once for each sex. However, this isn't exactly the same. Since none of Blazing's villains are playable, and adding three of the Four Fangs, plus Nergal, Sonia, and Limstella (all feasible additions), and we get 50 distinct non-alt characters total that FE7 could add. Awakening gains two Grimas and a Validar from including villains, but nothing more since the rest of the major villains are PCs. This puts Awakening at 54, just four more than Blazing, the two have almost identical potential rosters sizes for FEH when you look at it like this.

 

Also, Venmi did this back in June, but I think it is worth having on hand (if a little messy):

Spoiler

Also, props will be a little off since I only used playable game counts, and some of the characters included in FEH weren't playable.  However, it gives an idea.

Archanera: 30/59=0.51 in heroes

[To think on Archanea, the only ones who don't return as PCs in New Mystery are Jagen, Gotoh, Hardin, and Boah. So let us add them to New Mystery's 77 PC cast, and count Kris twice, once for each sex. This brings things up to 82. 30/82 = 36.59%

If we look to add in villains, well the NM number includes Michalis, since he became playable. We should add Camus (Sirius is him, but the mask makes the difference), Medeus, Gharnef, Dark Emperor Hardin, and the three assassins who aren't playable. (We can exclude Jiol as a pathetic little old man nobody will be remiss about, and Lang the same. I excluded Uther, Darin, and Brendan from my Elibe count for the same reason.) Palla, Catria and Est will count, but they also effectively double as Valentians since they don't really change between games. 

The Archanean total then becomes 89, which can be rounded up to 90 if choose to separate Earth Dragon Medeus and Shadow Dragon Medeus, or something. 30 of 90 is exactly one third.] This bracketed stuff is my, IO's additions.

Valentina: 18-1=17, 17/38=0.45 in heroes (excluding Fallen Celica)

Judgral: 22-2=20 in heroes (excluding second Rein and Olwen)...  I have no idea how to count this one, I'll leave it to a game expert to figure out cast size.  I have no clue what the overlap (if any) is.

----It looks like there are 15/93=0.16 in heroes.  (Thanks @Baldrick!)  That makes Judgral the lowest.

Elibe: 38-2=36 in heroes (excluding L!Lyn and new Nino, including the two new ones for tomorrow).  Like Judgral, don't know the overlap, so I'll let someone else find the proportion.

[So if take the 36 Elibeans and compare this to the combined Binding-Blazing rosters: 44 + 54 = 98. So we have a little over a third of the Elibean cast, but this excludes villains and important NPCs. Adding them in and getting to like 115, it is slightly under a third.Sacred Stones: 15-2=13, 13/33=0.4 (L!Eph and alt Erika excluded)]- this bracketed addition is my, IO's addition.

Tellius: 15-2=13, 13/73=0.18 (L!Ike and Zelgius excluded)

Awakening: 26-4=22, 22/49=0.45 (I'm a little iffy on this one...  M!Marth and second Chrom are obvious exclusions, but I'm not sure what to do with the Grimas.  I excluded both, but you could add them back in)

Fates: 41-2=39, 39/64=0.61 (Excluding Ryoma and Hinoka alts)

 

And lastly, the playable roster sizes of each game as I counted them and as alluded to above, just to have this on record again:

Spoiler

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light: 52

Gaiden: Alm’s Team: 16 Celica’s Team: 16 

Mystery of the Emblem: Book 1: 47  Book 2: 45

Genealogy of the Holy War: 1st Generation: 24 

2nd Generation: 25 

Thracia 776: 52 

Binding Blade: 54 

Blazing Sword: 43 (Hector Mode) 41 (Eliwood Mode) (41/39 per play through because Wallace/Geitz and Karel/Harken, and because with the exception of 1 con, Ninian and Nils are identical statistically, and you only have one at any time (barring the Link Arena in the Epilogue where they have no purpose), so I counted them as one)

Sacred Stones: 33 (not including Orson)

Path of Radiance: 47 

Radiant Dawn: 72 (not including the Black Knight, but including Lehran and Pelleas)

Shadow Dragon: 59 (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light plus the 7 new characters)

Heroes of Light and Shadow: 77 (one sex of MU, includes final maidens, no BS only characters included)

Awakening: 49 (36 without kids, with one sex of MU and Morgan, including spot pass paralogues)

• Fire Emblem Fates Overall Total:
  • Shared Characters on all Paths: 14- 9 Adults (one sex of Corrin, plus Anna, minus Izana) and 5 children (one sex of Kana)
  • Birthright Exclusive Characters: 27- 19 adults (includes Izana) and 8 children
    • Total Birthright Roster: 41
  • Conquest Characters: 26- 18 adults (includes Izana) and 8 children
    • Total Conquest Roster: 40
  • Revelation Roster: 64 (not counting Scarlet)

SoV: Add Faye and Conrad to Gaiden, so 34, adding the Cipher quartet makes it 38

 

[Tolvir]

17 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Having roughly only one regular banner a month due to seasonals makes pretty much every continent feel like it's getting new characters at an agonizingly slow pace.

We have received around 58 new characters last year, and 34 or so this year, so 92 in a year and a half. considering that’s a very large chunk of characters, I get  spacing it out. Otherwise we end up having only alts to look forward to come year 4. 

Its a marathon. Not a sprint. 

[Rezzy]

10 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

We have received around 58 new characters last year, and 34 or so this year, so 92 in a year and a half. considering that’s a very large chunk of characters, I get  spacing it out. Otherwise we end up having only alts to look forward to come year 4. 

Its a marathon. Not a sprint. 

Considering there's a cast of hundreds nearing a thousand, I don't think it would hurt to pick up the pace.  It seems we skipped the new units phase and are now in the "only having alts to look forward to" phase.

[Tolvir]

8 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Considering there's a cast of hundreds nearing a thousand, I don't think it would hurt to pick up the pace.  It seems we skipped the new units phase and are now in the "only having alts to look forward to" phase.

There’s not a cast of almost 1 thousand, I can guarantee that. 

In total counting characters that could actually appear on a banner, so excluding side characters such as Calil’s daughter that for some reason was in CYL or Renea, and excluding Villains as only 2 have actually been on a banner, the cast list that can appear on a banner is 522. We have already gone through almost 100 in a year and a half, and going by last years amount we will have gone through 200 by the time year 2 ends. 

Considering the average FE cast is 30-50, I imagine Three Houses will be about the same, so by next year we will add another 40 or so to the list. 

But by the time we get to year 4, we will have gone through another 200 or more. Leaving us at 122 characters left, so enough to sustain the game for roughly one year longer. 

And you want it to pick up the pace, so I’d say if it does what you want, we get probably 150-200 characters a year instead, about double what we get now. So if that happens, we will run out of characters to use by Year 4, like I said in my earlier post.

its a marathon. Not a sprint. 

[Rezzy]

5 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

There’s not a cast of almost 1 thousand, I can guarantee that. 

In total counting characters that could actually appear on a banner, so excluding side characters such as Calil’s daughter that for some reason was in CYL or Renea, and excluding Villains as only 2 have actually been on a banner, the cast list that can appear on a banner is 522. We have already gone through almost 100 in a year and a half, and going by last years amount we will have gone through 200 by the time year 2 ends. 

Considering the average FE cast is 30-50, I imagine Three Houses will be about the same, so by next year we will add another 40 or so to the list. 

But by the time we get to year 4, we will have gone through another 200 or more. Leaving us at 122 characters left, so enough to sustain the game for roughly one year longer. 

And you want it to pick up the pace, so I’d say if it does what you want, we get probably 150-200 characters a year instead, about double what we get now. So if that happens, we will run out of characters to use by Year 4, like I said in my earlier post.

its a marathon. Not a sprint. 

There's 818 spots on the second CYL.  Some are enemies or NPCs, but they've already shown that they don't have a problem with adding them in the game.

[Tolvir]

5 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

There's 818 spots on the second CYL.  Some are enemies or NPCs, but they've already shown that they don't have a problem with adding them in the game.

You also have to count in all the duplicates, so PoR and RD, NM, and SD. 

Then when you look at NPCs, sure. They don’t mind adding them in.

But I highly doubt we will get Bandit Leader, the Bandit Brothers, Calill’s daughter, Renea who doesn’t even have an assigned class, etc. And most villains are added in as GHBs and not as Banner units, with only 2 actually ending up on a banner. 

So you would roughly end up cutting out 250 or so characters and be back to square one again. 

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, Tolvir said:

You also have to count in all the duplicates, so PoR and RD, NM, and SD. 

Then when you look at NPCs, sure. They don’t mind adding them in.

But I highly doubt we will get Bandit Leader, the Bandit Brothers, Calill’s daughter, Renea who doesn’t even have an assigned class, etc. And most villains are added in as GHBs and not as Banner units, with only 2 actually ending up on a banner. 

So you would roughly end up cutting out 250 or so characters and be back to square one again. 

I wouldn't put it past them to add Rinea.  They'll probably do another Echoes banner eventually, and they're almost out of waifus to add.

[Tolvir]

5 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I wouldn't put it past them to add Rinea.  They'll probably do another Echoes banner eventually, and they're almost out of waifus to add.

Possibly, though I doubt it. We haven’t seen FEH actually pull something random out of nowhere with an NPC like that. We have with alts, but that’s a different story altogether.

regardless, the cast we have that actually stands a chance isn’t as big as everyone thinks, shoving them out means we are going to burn out really fast. No one is looking at this from several years down the line, only what’s happening right now and how we don’t have all the banners we want.