Should CYL3 exclude all FE Heroes characters already in the game?

[Icelerate]

Back in CYL1 and CYL2, the main purpose voting for characters was to get a special alt version for some of the most popular characters. However, we've seen that most popular characters have now gotten alts. They even added the concept of legendary heroes as alts along with alts in regular banners too. Prior to that, alts were just on seasonal banners. Given all the avenues where IS adds alts, at this rate, what would be the point of voting for another alt in CYL3? Wouldn't it be nice if we can instead see characters not in Heroes get more support instead of voting for more of the same? Of course, as long as pre-existing Heroes are still in the poll, I feel inclined to vote for my actual favourite to show that she has a lot of popular support and due to not having any alts so far. 

[MacLovin]

oh joy Brave Assaello please.

let his title be the Hitman of Connacht.

[Alexmender]

The thing is that I'm 100% sure that even if the winners are characters not in the game they're going to be alts. The original version of those characters won't come until IS decides to do so. Shigure/Charlotte/Noire/Inigo are proof of this. If the CYL2 winners have more BST then it'll be clear that CYL is to vote for who's going to be the first units for the next BST increase instead of just voting for alts.

[Ice Dragon]

Not until I get a Brave Ninian.

[Sunwoo]

I already expressed my opinion on this in another thread (don't remember which one), but personally I'd rather that CYL alts be limited to non-Heroes characters. Spring Alfonse and Spring Sharena have already proven that Heroes OCs aren't necessarily disqualified from getting alts, and as someone who plays Heroes for the characters from other FE games I like more so than the OCs (regardless of whether I like them or not), I'd rather that characters that already existed in CYL get that honor.

That said, I don't expect the Heroes OCs to be dropped from CYL polling and I understand if people want to vote for them and like them most. I just don't feel the need to have the Heroes villains playable just yet. After all, a good number of FE games don't let their villains be playable in their own game. And if we do want to put in Heroes alts, they could be in the same vein as Alfonse and Sharena. Either seasonal alts, or from an alternate universe where they were allies of Askr.

[Icelerate]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I already expressed my opinion on this in another thread (don't remember which one), but personally I'd rather that CYL alts be limited to non-Heroes characters. Spring Alfonse and Spring Sharena have already proven that Heroes OCs aren't necessarily disqualified from getting alts, and as someone who plays Heroes for the characters from other FE games I like more so than the OCs (regardless of whether I like them or not), I'd rather that characters that already existed in CYL get that honor.

That said, I don't expect the Heroes OCs to be dropped from CYL polling and I understand if people want to vote for them and like them most. I just don't feel the need to have the Heroes villains playable just yet. After all, a good number of FE games don't let their villains be playable in their own game. And if we do want to put in Heroes alts, they could be in the same vein as Alfonse and Sharena. Either seasonal alts, or from an alternate universe where they were allies of Askr.

I used to agree with you but now I think it would inconsiderate to fans of Heroes' characters regardless of how underwhelming the story is. I would also add Warriors OCs to the poll. I agree that we shouldn't have the villains playable just yet. Haven't really analyzed their skills just yet but they're probably too OP for the current meta. Maybe in a couple of years they'll translate well. 

But my question was whether you want to get rid of all the characters that are already in Heroes, regardless of whether they are original to Heroes or not. Which means characters like Tormod will get more votes when characters that are already in Heroes like Sanaki are removed from the poll. 

[thecrimsonflash]

honestly for me, I feel like it should be its own thing separated from the CYL vote, it would be stupid to vote on getting an alt for a character who isn't in the game at all, I don't mind a vote where IS finally has to accept that they can't run away forever on the beast unit matter.

Also, heroes OCs are terrible, same for warriors, I am not here for a second rate marth (or Ike/Ephraim) wannabe or his obligatory sister and really don't care for having them around in any capacity.

Edited July 25, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Alternate proposal: CYL 3 will exclude characters in Heroes who already have alts, leaving room for those that do not to obtain alts. Once they get alts they are automatically disqualified from CYL.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Nah. The only characters that should be excluded are the eight previous CYL winners.

[Sunwoo]

55 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I used to agree with you but now I think it would inconsiderate to fans of Heroes' characters regardless of how underwhelming the story is. I would also add Warriors OCs to the poll. I agree that we shouldn't have the villains playable just yet. Haven't really analyzed their skills just yet but they're probably too OP for the current meta. Maybe in a couple of years they'll translate well. 

But my question was whether you want to get rid of all the characters that are already in Heroes, regardless of whether they are original to Heroes or not. Which means characters like Tormod will get more votes when characters that are already in Heroes like Sanaki are removed from the poll. 

Yeah, I mean, not wanting Heroes OCs in CYL is a purely selfish desire and I know it's selfish. It doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway.

Also, eliminating characters already in Heroes from CYL polling would theoretically mean that many characters not currently in the game would place better ... but after the first two CYL polls included them it seems super unfair to anyone whose favorite character was really close to scoring within top two. Also, I can see certain characters (like Rath) getting more votes without competition from already existing characters. (Tormod in general might be a lost cause when it comes to scoring high in CYL, he doesn't have the availability in his home game or a unique class to make him super popular). I'd rather they stop splitting characters' votes instead so all votes for Tormod just go towards the Tormod pool, and you could get an option after you pick him on whether you prefer RD or PoR version more.

[LucarioGamer812]

I would love it if they did that so new characters could be brought in. It'd actually be hard to predict who would win with units already in the game not being eligible, and even if they didn't do alts, it could be done so they can add the next batch of units, like the Mia + Dorcas + Lute banner.

[C. Turtle]

I feel like Choose Your Legends already has a properly defined purpose; getting special versions of the winning Heroes. I certainly wouldn't mind if IS did a poll to specifically judge which characters who aren't in the game yet are popular, since some people have already been using CYL for that, but I feel like it should be branded as its own new event, like A Heroes Rises was, rather than calling it Choose Your Legends 3, when the other Choose Your Legends events don't fit the same rules.

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, C. Turtle said:

I feel like Choose Your Legends already has a properly defined purpose; getting special versions of the winning Heroes. I certainly wouldn't mind if IS did a poll to specifically judge which characters who aren't in the game yet are popular, since some people have already been using CYL for that, but I feel like it should be branded as its own new event, like A Heroes Rises was, rather than calling it Choose Your Legends 3, when the other Choose Your Legends events don't fit the same rules.

This makes sense to me. Do it, but rebrand it under a different title. Although, now that I think about it, wasn't the first Choose Your Legends poll basically to scout out popularity when releasing the first batch of characters into the game?

[Humanoid]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This makes sense to me. Do it, but rebrand it under a different title. Although, now that I think about it, wasn't the first Choose Your Legends poll basically to scout out popularity when releasing the first batch of characters into the game?

The first CYL would have been several months too late if that was the goal.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Humanoid said:

The first CYL would have been several months too late if that was the goal.

Oh. Guess I'm just misremembering my timelines. Didn't get into Heroes until about this time last year.

[Humanoid]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Oh. Guess I'm just misremembering my timelines. Didn't get into Heroes until about this time last year.

Yeah, the game launched like, three days after CYL1 closed. It was just a tool to build hype really, and I'd say it did its job.

[Arcphoenix]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Nah. The only characters that should be excluded are the eight previous CYL winners.

Agreed. There's just something about seeing the Heroes you vote for get put on a high podium that I like a lot, especially as it's something you were involved in regardless of if they were in Heroes or not.

[Lewyn]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Back in CYL1 and CYL2, the main purpose voting for characters was to get a special alt version for some of the most popular characters. However, we've seen that most popular characters have now gotten alts. They even added the concept of legendary heroes as alts along with alts in regular banners too. Prior to that, alts were just on seasonal banners. Given all the avenues where IS adds alts, at this rate, what would be the point of voting for another alt in CYL3? Wouldn't it be nice if we can instead see characters not in Heroes get more support instead of voting for more of the same? Of course, as long as pre-existing Heroes are still in the poll, I feel inclined to vote for my actual favourite to show that she has a lot of popular support and due to not having any alts so far. 

Yes.  Back then before the altpocalypse happened, new hero banners were all new characters making their much awaited debuts.  Now we have seasonal banners every month, but in addition to that every new hero banner this year has contained an alt except one, Genealogy (cause that game is all that is good and holy about Fire Emblem and thus shall not be tarnished!).  EVERY ONE, but one.  That includes legendary banners.  It's disgusting.

So CYL can be a popularity contest for the many characters not yet in the game in any form.  Alt versions of existing heroes?  We have hundreds of those already, there is nothing special about a few more.  It was special back then, getting non seasonal serious alts, but now we get those all the time.  

[Jave]

No. Just remove all versions of the eight CYL winners. Removing all the characters currently in Heroes would make for a ridiculously unfair poll.

[Vaximillian]

CYL3 should remove the eight previous winners and consolidate the doubles to end vote splitting.

[Reality]

I personally kind of think that CYL has already started to go against the concept it's named for and become too gamey - The ugly coincidence of Eiraka's vote climb in CYL2 coming to a halt when she had her un-related alt kind of emphasizes this. I don't really understand the "one alt for every lord before any single lord gets 2 mentality" because (ignoring events that have already happened) it seems incredibly arbitrary and would make things predictable to the point where the User input part of the polls wasn't even necessary. 

OP - if all non-game representatives square off I think it would be a very boring and predictable poll where mostly the most important characters outside of the lords and certain villians would dominate. The better success of charathers that are fun in gameplay (FE4's Lex) might be interesting, but in all honestly just as far from actually winning the poll as they are now.

 

[EricaofRenais]

5 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

CYL3 should remove the eight previous winners and consolidate the doubles to end vote splitting.

I agree with this 100% the split votes need to go bye bye ASAP.  The split votes annoy me the most out of the problems with CYL, it made Laguz votes lower then they really were and poor Marth would have won CYL 2 if he had only one version in the poll.

[X-Naut]

8 hours ago, Jave said:

No. Just remove all versions of the eight CYL winners. Removing all the characters currently in Heroes would make for a ridiculously unfair poll.

CYL2 already did this for the four CYL winners, it's safe to say they'll do it again.

But yeah CYL should include everyone who didn't win before, otherwise it's just a wishlist, and when you look at alts, Farfetched Heroes and what not they do use it as a wishlist too.

[Xenomata]

I am completely prepared for Reinhardt to get another alt that looks exactly the same as his base form, but wielding a giant Pavise as an axe or something that decreases all incoming melee damage by 50%.

In seriousness though, I don't even really want them to remove previous CYL winners from the poll. Not because I want Lyn to have 10 alts by the end of December 2019, but because I'd at least like to see how the popularity of a hero sways with their appearance in Heroes compared to the first and second CYL results.

Just do what the Awakening popularity poll did and ignore the fact that the Avatar was in the top 3 for both genders, or in this case that the previous winners were in the top 10 for the purpose of those CYL top 10 calenders from the first CYL.

[Magical Glace]

The abundance of Alts does make the entire contest feel pointless, it'd be a nice new spin on it now that IS has seemingly forgotten the definition on "New".

So I say sure.  Encourage some variety in here instead of Takumi #5, and I like Takumi...