Jump to content
gjuptonv

What are your most liked and disliked hard modes in Fire Emblem?

Recommended Posts

I was planning to run through the series on the most difficult modes, but after some thought I realized that I just won't enjoy playing many of them.

FE9 Maniac Mode is an absolute slog through far too many enemies and little challenge,
FE11 H5 is too difficult and limiting for me to enjoy casually,
FE12 Lunatic(+/R) is more of the difficulty in FE11,
FE13 Lunatic(+) is again too limiting for me to enjoy casually, &
FE14 CQ Lunatic is again crushingly difficult for casual play. 

Which hard modes do you like, which do you dislike, and why do you like/dislike them?

Edited by gjuptonv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FE6's hardest difficulty is my favorite because it's challenging but never frustrating. The enemies have serious stats. However it's FE6, the game with the worst weapon balance. But it doesn't mean that the difficulty is bad at all.

 

FE10's hard mode would be my favorite if weapon triangle wasn't removed for no reason.

 

The worst hard mode is easily 13's lunatic (+) because it's just fake difficulty. Giving enemies skills with a 100% activation rate the player hasn't access to them is just an artifical way to make a game challenging. At the end you reset till the enemies have less terrifying skills. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say Hector Hard Mode is a fair challenge overall, the only thing I really don't like in particular is the reduced deployment slots. The enemies could be a bit stronger too, and Living Legend could lose the FoW, but that is about my only issues.

FE8 for Ephraim isn't a cakewalk on no-grind, could use some tweaks sure, but it's serviceable.

 

I almost never play on FE10 Hard, because removing the ability to view enemy ranges is artificial difficulty and tedium. The enemies are hardly any strong than Normal anyhow, so I just use that as my go to difficulty.

Similarly, I don't notice too many differences between Lunatic and Hard Conquest, I see some obvious ones, but not that many. Since Normal is easy, I think I'll stick to Hard here as the fair in-between.

Never tried FE13 on Lunatic+ but Lunatic is already bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Least favorite: 

FE6 hard mode - FE6 is already frustrating enough, and hard mode, needless to say, does nothing but make things worse
FE10 hard mode - what the [EFF!] was the point of removing the weapon triangle again...??? Oh wait, there was none. And removing the ability to see enemy range was just plain stupid.
FE13 Lunatic(+) - Far too limiting, and Lunatic+ in particular makes Thracia look fair.

Favorite is Conquest hard.

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awakening Lunatic is a bunch of hot garbage.  Yeah, it is doable, and I know because I've played through it up to Chapter 15 or whatever (the first dozen chapters are honestly the hardest part of the game)...  But it's not challenging in a fun way.

Genealogy's "hard mode" kind of makes the game easier, tbh.  You just make the AI easier to predict.  And the DS remakes' version of a "hard mode" is almost exactly the same as Awakening's, so I also kind of dislike them.

Fates Lunatic is a bit more fair and fun.  It doesn't just revolve around boosting enemy stats and making them ridiculously difficult to defeat, the difficulty is more nuanced than that.  Sure, you still are very likely to lose units a lot, but it's not quite as BS unless you're playing on one of the BS maps (like the goddamn Wind Tribe map in Conquest/Revelation).  Bear in mind I have not played Conquest on this difficulty due to a general disdain for that path, so I'm mostly talking about the other two paths.  Regardless, the Lunatic mode in Fates is the one I prefer the most, and it's fun enough for me to do no-grind, no-royal, and low-tier unit runs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A friend once told me Lunatic Awakening wasn't even playtested XD

It definitely shows with all its unfairness.

 

Also, as much as I love Fates on higher difficulties the beginning levels completely suck. Especially the Mother chapter. At that point, Corrin is probably your only real capable unit, and there are freaking Wyrmslayers.

Edited by Arcphoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Binding Blade's HM is probably one of the better ones if not the best. Since it simply makes enemies tougher and adds a more enemies sometimes. However, having even more reinforcements in a game that already is reinforcement-happy isn't really challenging... Its just annoying.

I sort of get chills down my spine whenever I think of Chapter 13 HM.

just why

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really haven't played that many to completion, I guess. FE10 hard, Awakening Lunatic, and all three Fates Lunatic.

I'd give my seal of favoritism to Conquest Lunatic. Some map gimmicks made it a bit ridiculous, but overall I enjoyed it a lot.

And of course, the worst one out of these would be Awakening Lunatic +, that, yes, I haven't completed(didn't even try, the first chapter told me all I needed to know), but is obviously regular Lunatic with randomized game breaking skills on the enemies. And things like random counter on same turn warrior reinforcements among a pretty large amount of other things had already bothered me enough that there was no way I'd have wasted my time on that mode. May have been the first time I felt like the devs didn't put in any effort whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess one of my least favorites FE8 hard, because it just... isn't. I think something akin to HHM would benefit the game as a whole. On the other side of the coin there's FE13 Lunatic/Lunatic+ which are too reliant on the player's luck to push through, especially in the earliest chapters. I've been attempting a run for over a month and i'm afraid i'll never finish it.

I liked HHM the most since it fixes a lot of what i've criticized. Hard, but fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FE6 HM - Pretty fun, but hard mode bonuses are way too good for recruitable allies. Shin, Milady, and Percival are almost invincible in the latter half of the game. I love the idea of HM bonuses too, but it’s kind of lame that this game gives them to units that are already amazing. 

FE7 HHM - Big fan of this one. The changes are really substantive at points, something I think all hard modes should aim for. Reduced deployment definitely feels unnecessary at points, but it’s not a deal breaker for me the way it is for some others. 

FE8 HM - It’s fine. There are some challenging moments if you don’t grind at all and bench Seth, but that’s already too many restrictions than should be necessary.

FE9 HM - Like FE8, it’s too easy, and requires self regulation (in this case, something like not using BEXP) to keep it interesting. There’s a massive dropping off point in difficulty once the gang reaches Begnion. I haven’t played Maniac Mode and it sounds pretty bad but I’ll need to form my own opinion some day. 

FE10 - Enemy quality is really good from what I remember, and I don’t even mind that they took out the weapon triangle. Removing the ability to view enemy attack ranges was inexcusable, however, and a real shame considering how fun the rest of it is. 

FE11 H5 - I just beat this for the first time recently and wasn’t impressed. The game just begs you to warp skip way too often with its map designs, enemy placement, and abundance of Warp uses. The end of the game left a really bad taste in my mouth. 

FE12 - I’ve only tried up to hard, and didn’t find it very fun. I just don’t really like the nature of combat and formulas in DSFE. This game also brought back same turn reinforcements, which was stupid. 

FE13 - Never played Lunatic and probably never will. I hate this game. 

Conquest - Played it on hard and it gave me a run for my money. Overall I just think it’s a little bit exhausting in how every map is just as hard as the last, there are no breathers, and you constantly need to be checking enemy skills. I’ll do Lunatic eventually. 

Birthright - Lunatic is way too easy. I had to bench Ryoma to make the game even remotely interesting. 

Revelations - No thanks. 

Echoes SoV Hard - A lot of fun. The bad map designs didn’t bother me nearly as much as I thought they would. Unlike DSFE, SoV units felt really bulky and ORKOs were rare, which is a style I found myself enjoying, as it led to a lot of improvisation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, gjuptonv said:

FE9 Maniac Mode is an absolute slog through far too many enemies and little challenge,
FE11 H5 is too difficult and limiting for me to enjoy casually,
FE12 Lunatic(+/R) is more of the difficulty in FE11,
FE13 Lunatic(+) is again too limiting for me to enjoy casually, &
FE14 CQ Lunatic is again crushingly difficult for casual play. 

Is it really desirable if a Hard Mode can be beaten "casually"? Maybe I just misinterprete what you mean by that phrase, but in my opinion, a good HM should challenge the player and punish their mistakes or bad plays.

My personal favorite in this regard is Binding Blade, mostly for reasons already stated. I like that FE6 draws its difficulty from fairly simple game mechanics (more isn't always better) and I think that it's an enjoyable challenge for an informed player (that knows stuff like "field Lilina in chapter X", "Lalum recruits Perceval", or "yes, you do have to keep Douglas alive").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ping said:

Is it really desirable if a Hard Mode can be beaten "casually"? Maybe I just misinterprete what you mean by that phrase, but in my opinion, a good HM should challenge the player and punish their mistakes or bad plays.

My personal favorite in this regard is Binding Blade, mostly for reasons already stated. I like that FE6 draws its difficulty from fairly simple game mechanics (more isn't always better) and I think that it's an enjoyable challenge for an informed player (that knows stuff like "field Lilina in chapter X", "Lalum recruits Perceval", or "yes, you do have to keep Douglas alive").

No no you're correct and I should rephrase. I'll use FE11 as an example: H3 was fun with minimal pre-planning, whereas H5 was extremely difficult for me without meticulous pre-planning as well as making sure units met specific benchmarks. This speaks about me being a poor player first-and-foremost, but it significantly hindered my enjoyment of the mode as a whole.

I enjoy the Binding Blade HM as well! Though I always have trouble getting through a NM play-through without some sort of challenge. I should run a low-tier NM Ironman and then a HM Ironman!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Binding Blade is far and away the best hard mode I've played.  Ono the whole, it makes the game feel challenging, but not cheap, unlike most other Hard Modes (or still too easy in the case of Shadows of Valentia. Sacre Stones manages to go both ways with the Phantom Ship, although I haven't played that level since I was a noob).

Edited by Jotari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't play a lot of Hard modes, but my favourite was Lunatic on New Mystery of the Emblem. At first, I thought it was impossible, but I somehow managed to get through it. I also learned to play more offensively as well, since I usually turtle and stall--and that's a recipe for disaster with all the reinforcements and stuff.

My least favourite is probably Binding Blade's. The early-game is waaay too hard--and I'm convinced it's a bug, not actual game design. Then the mid-game is easy and I don't remember endgame being particularly hard either. That said, it was the first game I played, so maybe I just sucked. Since apparently quite a few people seem to like it here XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly fail to see how people like Binding Blade's hard mode, since it largely comes off more of an exercise in frustration. It's just way too limiting, and earlygame is just way too hard. Long story short, it just leaves a very very bad taste in my mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, Binding Blade's hard mode is actually bugged, since the first 5 or so chapters have the enemies hard mode bonuses be double what they should be...
Or at least, that's how I remember it.
I could be spouting bullcrap though, but it would make a lot of sense considering how much easier FE6 HM gets after chapter 6 (Chapter 7 is just difficult on it's own, thank god it doesn't have double HM bonuses).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Binding Blade's Hard Mode at least felt gratifying compared to Blazing Blade or Sacred Stones', where the unpromoted enemies barely improved. Earlygame is a bit cheap but you still get a handful of solid units (Marcus, Dieck, Rutger) and supporters (Shanna, Allance, Elen and Clarine) to get you through. It doesn't actively take away resources, such as starting inventory items and deployment slots, like HHM does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BEST

Lunatic Conquest = Challenging in all the right ways

Fe6 = tough, but fair

Fe7 HHM = mildly challenging but still accessible to a causal player on an unranked run. A true test of meddle for even the most hardened veterans, if you're going for a perfect S-ranked playthrough




BAD, BECAUSE TOO EASY

Path of Radiance

 Sacred Stones

 Birthright


BAD, BECAUSE HIGHER DIFFICULTY IS ACHIEVED AT THE EXPENSE OF FUN GAMEPLAY

Radiant Dawn =  Who thought it was a good idea to remove weapon triangle and range-check??? Make the game harder by buffing the enemies or by nerfing top tier units if you think its too easy--don't remove elements of gameplay. 

H5 FE11 = the enemies stats are amped up to such a degree and the limitations it puts on gameplay are so clunky--who actually enjoys spending 100+ turns sending jeigan to eat an attack and then fall back to a fort while you wait for the bosses hand axe to break? Chokepoint abusing bridges while an entire army comes at you in a single file line? Warpskipping the endgame? 

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Lunatic Awakening = ...I love low-manning half the game with Chrom + Lucina + nosferatu tanks and watching the rest of my army become useless on every playthrough. (can be fun if you're using DLC and abusing the outrealms, but I shouldn't have to go through a pay-wall for good gameplay)



 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

BEST

Lunatic Conquest = Challenging in all the right ways

Fe6 = tough, but fair

Fe7 HHM = mildly challenging but still accessible to a causal player on an unranked run. A true test of meddle for even the most hardened veterans, if you're going for a perfect S-ranked playthrough




BAD, BECAUSE TOO EASY

Path of Radiance

 Sacred Stones

 Birthright


BAD, BECAUSE HIGHER DIFFICULTY IS ACHIEVED AT THE EXPENSE OF FUN GAMEPLAY

Radiant Dawn =  Who thought it was a good idea to remove weapon triangle and range-check??? Make the game harder by buffing the enemies or by nerfing top tier units if you think its too easy--don't remove elements of gameplay. 

H5 FE11 = the enemies stats are amped up to such a degree and the limitations it puts on gameplay are so clunky--who actually enjoys spending 100+ turns sending jeigan to eat an attack and then fall back to a fort while you wait for the bosses hand axe to break? Chokepoint abusing bridges while an entire army comes at you in a single file line? Warpskipping the endgame? 

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Lunatic Awakening = ...I love low-manning half the game with Chrom + Lucina + nosferatu tanks and watching the rest of my army become useless on every playthrough. (can be fun if you're using DLC and abusing the outrealms, but I shouldn't have to go through a pay-wall for good gameplay)



 

Bold: I would seek an explanation on this one - I would MUCH sooner deem it to be terrible because the difficulty comes at the cost of fun gameplay (who actually likes having to repeatedly get lucky against bosses on thrones? Not me, that's for damn sure!). There's also the matter where most of the units become next to useless - another bad sign, to be sure.

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: I would seek an explanation on this one 

lol No you don't. You're just looking for something to bitch and moan about--again. 

You pop into threads, you tell people their opinions are terrible, and if contradicted on absolutely anything you take the piss. Its old. Get a new gig.

___________

On the merits---FE6 throws some pretty tough enemies at you early on, but at no point in the game are you left without the appropriate tools for dealing with them.

The most OP enemy relative to  the power level of your party at the point in the game when you face him is probably the hero-on-a-throne boss in chapter 8x, with a steel blade and a hand axe. 

And between Rutger, Dieck, Lilina, Lugh, Marcus, and the christmas cavaliers--you still have no shortage of options on how to expediently deal with him. 

At no point does it ever turn into the well I guess I just have to take 20 more hits and wait for that hand axe to break slog of H5 FE11, or the You can fight. You can fight. You can fight. Everyone else is a healer or a rallybot or a bench warmer. KK--go solo the map Morgan silliness of Lunatic Awakening.

Tough, but fair. 


 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Favorite

CQ Lunatic - it’s hard, but it’s generally fair. Most of the stuff it throws at you you have the tools to deal with

SD H5 - Outside of the first 3 bosses (seriously who on earth thought they were a good idea) it’s pretty fun, Forging in this game is super nice, basically everyone is usable without statboosters (unlike it’s successor), and reclassing is a fun mechanic. I mean you can warpskip most of it but it’s not like you need to do that or anything, and a lot of the maps are pretty interesting.

Least Favorite

HHM - yeah I don’t like HHM. I hate the lower deployment slots, I dislike basically all the exclusive maps (2 units for a map is dumb, chapter 25 is like the easiest map in the game, Chapter 15 is just mediocre, and the Berserker map I just think is dumb), I dislike weather (it doesn’t appear often, but when it does I hate it), I dislike the quantity over quality emphasis on most maps (COD is probably the biggest offender), I dislike all the chapters that are basically down time, I’m just not a fan overall.

FE9 HM - Yeah it’s a complete joke. Anyone who says Sacred stones is the easiest hard mode clearly hasn’t played FE9 english on hard mode, and from what I can tell, Maniac mode is bad in a different way - that being tedium.

42 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: I would seek an explanation on this one - I would MUCH sooner deem it to be terrible because the difficulty comes at the cost of fun gameplay (who actually likes having to repeatedly get lucky against bosses on thrones? Not me, that's for damn sure!). There's also the matter where most of the units become next to useless - another bad sign, to be sure.

Is there any reason that you need to be so aggressive about someone stating their opinion? Like seriously. Anyways, I personally don’t find either of those things that bad, since Rutger doesn’t really need luck versus most bosses since he’s so accurate (that one dumb Sacae Swordmaster aside), and unit viability isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. I’d really only put a small amount of units in the next to useless category, it is after all, not FE12.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Aut said:

SD H5 - Outside of the first 3 bosses (seriously who on earth thought they were a good idea) it’s pretty fun, Forging in this game is super nice, basically everyone is usable without statboosters (unlike it’s successor), and reclassing is a fun mechanic. I mean you can warpskip most of it but it’s not like you need to do that or anything, and a lot of the maps are pretty interesting.

...I actually don't disagree with your there...

But holy hell--those first 3 bosses.

Its a big enough lapse in game design and so unenjoyable to deal with that that alone is enough to sour me on the entire playthrough.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Aut said:

Is there any reason that you need to be so aggressive about someone stating their opinion? Like seriously. Anyways, I personally don’t find either of those things that bad, since Rutger doesn’t really need luck versus most bosses since he’s so accurate (that one dumb Sacae Swordmaster aside), and unit viability isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. I’d really only put a small amount of units in the next to useless category, it is after all, not FE12.

I highly doubt you would understand why I am so aggressive if I did tell you, so I will not tell you. Anyway, what about Henning?? A Goddess Icon alone isn't enough to null his 10 crit... Also, it's the fact that the earlygame is soul-crushingly difficult that is enough for me to dismiss it as terrible.

34 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

lol No you don't. You're just looking for something to bitch and moan about--again. 

You pop into threads, you tell people their opinions are terrible, and if contradicted on absolutely anything you take the piss. Its old. Get a new gig.

___________

On the merits---FE6 throws some pretty tough enemies at you early on, but at no point in the game are you left without the appropriate tools for dealing with them.

The most OP enemy relative to  the power level of your party at the point in the game when you face him is probably the hero-on-a-throne boss in chapter 8x, with a steel blade and a hand axe. 

And between Rutger, Dieck, Lilina, Lugh, Marcus, and the christmas cavaliers--you still have no shortage of options on how to expediently deal with him. 

At no point does it ever turn into the well I guess I just have to take 20 more hits and wait for that hand axe to break slog of H5 FE11, or the You can fight. You can fight. You can fight. Everyone else is a healer or a rallybot or a bench warmer. KK--go solo the map Morgan silliness of Lunatic Awakening.

Tough, but fair. 

Breaking News: Some of us have different standards for "fair". As for the boss in question, Rutger is about the only unit who could get anything done against him, and even then he'd likely need to be promoted, and second, he faces crit chances (Henning has 10 crit, and Rutger has 4 base luck, meaning a Goddess Icon alone won't be enough). Out of the others you mentioned, Lugh and Lilina won't be able to do much of anything even if they hit because thrones give +5 resistance for whatever reason, Dieck is slower and thus is unlikely to double, and the others are looking at hit rates that are about a coin flip at best even with WTA.

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...I actually don't disagree with your there...

But holy hell--those first 3 bosses.

Its a big enough lapse in game design and so unenjoyable to deal with that that alone is enough to sour me on the entire playthrough.  

Certaintly understandable. Those bosses are some of the worst enemies I’ve ever had to face in Fire Emblem. Speaking of annoying bosses

 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I highly doubt you would understand why I am so aggressive if I did tell you, so I will not tell you. Anyway, what about Henning?? A Goddess Icon alone isn't enough to null his 10 crit... Also, it's the fact that the earlygame is soul-crushingly difficult that is enough for me to dismiss it as terrible.

Breaking News: Some of us have different standards for "fair". As for the boss in question, Rutger is about the only unit who could get anything done against him, and even then he'd likely need to be promoted, and second, he faces crit chances (Henning has 10 crit, and Rutger has 4 base luck, meaning a Goddess Icon alone won't be enough). Out of the others you mentioned, Lugh and Lilina won't be able to do much of anything even if they hit because thrones give +5 resistance for whatever reason, Dieck is slower and thus is unlikely to double, and the others are looking at hit rates that are about a coin flip at best even with WTA.

Alright man, saying that you have your reasons for being unnecessarily aggressive still does not excuse the fact that you were being unnecessarily aggressive. I don’t think anyone asked you to disagree with them, especially about their opinion.

Anyways, Henning isn’t that bad, stop exaggerating. I think that Rutger could pull of being 14/1, which means he’s on average facing a 3% chance of crit, 56 hit 62 true hit w/ the steel blade (36 hit 26 true hit w/ hand axe), and survives a steel blade crit, while doing 8*2 damage (9*2 hand axe), w/ 64 hit 74 true hit (70 hit 82 true hit hand axe), and 64 crit. He will on average kill Henning in 2 rounds of combat no matter what weapon he wields (roughly 64% chance if Henning wields a steel blade for both battles, just for an idea), and can attack a third time if need be. Even if he’s 10/1 (or averaged lower than normal), he’ll on average still double Henning even w/ a hand axe, do 7*2 damage (8*2 hand axe), and, if you’re really feeling cautious, he survives a hand axe crit basically guarenteed (it’s about 4%, so it’s not exactly likely considering his hitrates). He’ll likely kill Henning in 2-3 rounds even if he’s underleveled. As for the other units, they can deal w/ Henning, but obviously they aren’t as good as Rutger, because after all, bosskilling is what Rutger is known for.

Also there is no reason to use multiple question marks, like really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's stationary. And the A.I. will not switch Henning's equipped weapon on enemy phase if there's no unit in range for him to attack, so there's a few different ways you can deal with him with hit-and-rescue strats on player phase. 

You can bait him into equipping his hand axe by placing an appropriate sword user at 2 range and ending your turn. 

As long as he's got the hand axe equipped you can comfortably attack him with any decently powerful sword user at melee rang then use your cavaliers to perform a rescue, so that he doesn't switch back to his steel sword and smack you with his more dangerous melee weapon.

Repeat until Henning is dead.

Alternatively, if Henning has his steel sword equipped, Lilina and Lugh can spam fire on him + get rescued out of hand axe range on player phase, so that he doesn't unequip his sword on enemy phase. 

Repeat until Henning is dead.

Or you can mix-and-match the previous 2 strategies; using any combination of fireballing him at 2-range when he's using his sword and stabbing him at melee range when hes using his axe to bring him down.

_______

He's actually one of my favorite bosses in FE6.

He's so strong and so intimidating vs. a low-level party.

But the game actually gives you a fairly diverse number of avenues for engaging him, and lets you handle the fight in whatever manner most befits your play style.

I wanna see more Hennings in fire emblem. He's a really well-designed early game boss. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...