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Theri

Eirika and Ephraim might have actually gotten married

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Okay so in Seth's ending it says that he served both the new king and queen. When one sibling takes the throne, the other does not take the title of queen/king. They remain a prince/princess. However, Eirika is being referred to as the queen of Renais. This implies that she married Ephraim. You could argue that Ephraim married someone in the game, but let's assume for this example that neither have been paired off. The message is the same regardless if they have an A rank or not.

By the wording, it also seems to say that Seth served them at the same time, implying that Ephraim didn't become king before Eirika and then died so she became queen. It implies that Ephraim and Eirika were king and queen together. Now it's probably just a poor choice of wording on Treehouse's side, but still. Out of all the games to choose poor wording for that. Tana was also never stated to be queen of Frelia, as her brother is king. While it's slightly different because Innes and Tana are not twins, Ephraim is the older of the two, and rightful heir to the throne. Eirika should only be a princess, so why is she stated as queen? There's no reason to give her that title, unless she marries Ephraim or Ephraim dies. However, the game ends if Ephraim dies, so that's out.

Again, it's probably just bad wording. I just found it interesting upon reading some of the Sacred Stones endings.

 

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Reminder that Eirika and Ephraim's legendary weapons are named off of two Norse figures that were siblings who boned each other and had a kid.

Edited by Slumber

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7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Reminder that Eirika and Ephraim's legendary weapons are named off of two Norse figures that were siblings who boned each other and had a kid.

:it's almost like incest is a fire emblem staple.

thanks kaga.

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Erika isn't even mentioned by name in this ending, so the argument is quite flimsy, and assuming ephraim were to marry tana or l'arachel, they would be the one being referred to in this ending, you also are arguing that ephraim can't take his pick of pretty much anyone in renais (or anywhere for that matter) or that he wouldn't (or wasn't really pressured, I doubt that most subjects are ok with a monarc who is unwilling to breed), of course you could also argue that ephraim was still somewhat unwilling to take the throne for whatever reason, so he decided to compromise by splitting rule with erika during the restoration of renais. This seems like it's mostly confirmation bias.

let's just ignore the horrible blood feud that last one would likely cause possibly destroying renais for a second time.

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You made a good observation, but it can be easily explained ^^

In the Japanese version, it says Seth served the new King and the princess.

Likewise, Eirika's "Restoration Queen" title in the ending should have been "Restoration Lady", like in Heroes. (Although it's literally "Kind Princess of the Azure Wind")

I don't know if they mistranslated princess as queen (since they have the exact kanji but swapped around--oujo versus joou) or if they were trying to make her sound cooler.

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4 hours ago, Slumber said:

Reminder that Eirika and Ephraim's legendary weapons are named off of two Norse figures that were siblings who boned each other and had a kid.

Igraine is named after Uther's wife.
afaik, Elphin's real name is based on Merlin/Myrddin.
Niime/Nimue is the Lady of the Lake, who gave Excalibur (a sword) to Arthur and is also sometimes depicted as Elphin Merlin's teacher or lover.
Lance(-lot) and Guinivere don't have anything going on in Fire Emblem.
"Troubadour" is the male form of that word.
Marth (Mars) isn't particularly warlike.
Is Gareth Gawain's brother?
I haven't played FE4 - is there an Iseult/Isolde in Tristan's life?

I don't think there's any reason to assume that Fire Emblem's writers put any hidden messages into their naming schemes.

---

Eirika is indeed called the "Restauration Queen" in her solo ending, but personally, I find the explaination "Ephraim named her co-ruler" way, way more reasonable than applying the old "they're close to each other, so obviously dey fuckin'" treatment. It might be unusual (and I'm sure that some of our resident history experts would be able to point out that and why it would even be completely impossible IRL), but more unusual and outrageous than the king officially marrying his sister? Seriously?

€: And I'm ninja'd by Vincent and the "queen" title is even more meaningless in that regard. :D

Edited by ping

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33 minutes ago, ping said:

Igraine is named after Uther's wife.
afaik, Elphin's real name is based on Merlin/Myrddin.
Niime/Nimue is the Lady of the Lake, who gave Excalibur (a sword) to Arthur and is also sometimes depicted as Elphin Merlin's teacher or lover.
Lance(lot) and Guinivere don't have anything going on in Fire Emblem.
"Troubadour" is the male form of that word.
Marth (Mars) isn't particularly warlike.
Is Gareth Gawain's brother?
I haven't played FE4 - is there an Iseult/Isolde in Tristan's life?

I don't think there's any reason to assume that Fire Emblem's writers put any hidden messages into their naming schemes.

Most of these things you mentioned don't really relate to what they're referencing, though.

  • Igraine is a random character from the same world that's probably 30 years younger than Uther, so clearly no real connection.
  • ... And?
  • Again, and?
  • You're continuing to lose me here.
  • Probably simply due to translation funkiness and probably not actually pertaining to anything in the games.
  • Okay? He's still at war, and is known as the Hero King. Just because he's not the actual personification of war doesn't mean the name has nothing to do with him.
  • No, but again, two unrelated characters in the same universe. They're probably just fishing for names here, as is likely the explanation of Elphin and Niime.
  • No, but Tristan isn't a purely mythological/historical name. Might as well just be arguing whether or not Samson's hair gives him powers at this point.

There's a chasm of difference between all of these, and giving twin siblings(Who are already way too attached to each other as is) weapons named after mythological siblings who are infamous for having a kid together. There's actually a clear connection here. It's like Homer, for example. He's a bard that ultimately tells the tale of Leif's liberation and becomes a famous storyteller in Jugdral. Clearly there's a connection with the actual character and his name. There are plenty of examples of somebody at IS tossing a bunch of western mythology books in the air, picking one of those books up, and reading off a name to give a character. But there are also plenty of characters that are connected to the mythology surrounding them that they seem to be based off of and named after.

Even if the whole aspect of Twincest isn't intended from the weapons, it clearly doesn't help with the notion that people were already feeling that the two were uncomfortably close for siblings.

Edited by Slumber

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@Slumber - I'm referring to the "real life" namesakes. Igraine and Uther are King Arthur's parents, Lancelot and Guinivere (i.e. Arthur's wife) had an affair, one of Gawain's brothers (Gawain being another one of Arthur's knights) is called Gareth...

If you don't see any Fire Emblem relevance in that, well, no wonder, because that's exactly my point. Fire Emblem never brought the backstory of the original namebearers into the actual FE characters, so I see no reason to read anything in the names Sieglinde and Siegmund, either.

Also, who is feeling that the twins are being "too" close? I can only think of Tana wondering about how she and Innes aren't nearly as close - but let's be real here, her comparison is Innes. (Who, admittedly, has this weird assumption that he has to be better than Ephraim in order to be good enough for Eirika).

But again, I see no reason why every Love must be read as Eros.

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24 minutes ago, ping said:

@Slumber - I'm referring to the "real life" namesakes. Igraine and Uther are King Arthur's parents, Lancelot and Guinivere (i.e. Arthur's wife) had an affair, one of Gawain's brothers (Gawain being another one of Arthur's knights) is called Gareth...

If you don't see any Fire Emblem relevance in that, well, no wonder, because that's exactly my point. Fire Emblem never brought the backstory of the original namebearers into the actual FE characters, so I see no reason to read anything in the names Sieglinde and Siegmund, either.

Also, who is feeling that the twins are being "too" close? I can only think of Tana wondering about how she and Innes aren't nearly as close - but let's be real here, her comparison is Innes. (Who, admittedly, has this weird assumption that he has to be better than Ephraim in order to be good enough for Eirika).

But again, I see no reason why every Love must be read as Eros.

I edited just before you posted.

For every character that's seemingly named at random, there's also a character that clearly has intent behind their name.

And I'm not talking about characters in universe who question this. I'm talking the people who play the game who pick up on this. I recall from day 1 that I really got into the Fire Emblem fandom back in 2006 pointing out that Eirika and Ephraim were putting out pretty heavy Twincest vibes. Have you read their supports? I can't think of two siblings in this series who talk even remotely like this, and the only one who comes close to the way Eirika talks in those supports is Lachesis(Who doesn't even ever really talk to her brother in any casual context like Eirika does), which... not really the example you want to follow when you're trying to make people think you're not trying to hook up with your own brother.

And I'm not saying it has to be ero, but for like, the third time in this thread, their weapons are named after twins who boned. The leap from "love" to "sex" is already being made for us.

EDIT: Oh, and Priscilla/Raven's pretty similar, which also tends to have squickish tones for a number of people.

Edited by Slumber

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Well, yeah, one might wonder why they named the weapons like that, but think about it: does Sigurd have anything to do with them? He was the half-brother of Sieglinde's and Sigmund's child after all. If the weapons name have a meaning behind them, I guess there shall be a meaning to every name. Sigurd is also known by the name Siegfried, so is Fates connected to these two games as well? Since it's also a weapon there, there might be a meaning behind this.

In the Völsunga saga

Spoiler

Sigmund had no idea he had a child with his sister, as Sieglinde (Signy) has changed her appearance to that of a sorceress. Sigmund learns of all this after their son, Sinfjötli is born...

Now, back to the topic, of course I don't think Fates or Genealogy is connected to Sacred Stones in any way other than being Fire Emblem games, and I don't think that the weapons' names indicate that Ephraim and Eirika married. Siegmund and Sieglinde were close to each other before that happened - Eirika and Ephraim are also close to each other since they too, are twins. Their story is also a bit similar

Spoiler

of how their father dies by the hand of someone they trusted.

And, well, Vincent already said that Eirika was called princess in japanese not queen, so this is just poor translating imho.

On the picture you linked nothing indicates that the queen is Eirika, it's only about Ephraim, and the queen, whose name isn't mentioned. And yeah, they might as well just shared the task of being a ruler, I mean, there are dragons, and magic, and monsters in that world, why would they use the same rules as we? Nothing said in the game that there can't be a king and a queen who both rules the land, without being married and such... They might even have a rule saying twins can co-rule, who knows? :D

Edited by coldhand25

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I mean this whole thread was kind of just a joke and to point out the translation error, it wasn't meant to be serious lol

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6 hours ago, coldhand25 said:

Well, yeah, one might wonder why they named the weapons like that, but think about it: does Sigurd have anything to do with them? He was the half-brother of Sieglinde's and Sigmund's child after all. If the weapons name have a meaning behind them, I guess there shall be a meaning to every name. Sigurd is also known by the name Siegfried, so is Fates connected to these two games as well? Since it's also a weapon there, there might be a meaning behind this.

In the Völsunga saga

  Hide contents

Sigmund had no idea he had a child with his sister, as Sieglinde (Signy) has changed her appearance to that of a sorceress. Sigmund learns of all this after their son, Sinfjötli is born...

So Deidre is the mother (or stepmother) of Sigurd, and she is also Manfroy besides being Arvis's sister? Sounds like it to me. 

 

The "Restoration Queen" mistake wouldn't be the only time this Princess/Queen mistake has happened in FE, since Lilia the sister of Reyson and Leanne who was given to Ashnard but died, is also mistakenly in RD called a queen once, when she was but a princess.

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5 hours ago, Theri said:

I mean this whole thread was kind of just a joke and to point out the translation error, it wasn't meant to be serious lol

I didn't really mean for my comment to be all that serious, either.

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17 hours ago, Slumber said:

Reminder that Eirika and Ephraim's legendary weapons are named off of two Norse figures that were siblings who boned each other and had a kid.

the onion knights from dark souls are too

granted, not siblings, but i really never thought much of either naming

Edited by Edgelord

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3 minutes ago, Edgelord said:

the onion knights from dark souls are too

granted, not siblings, but i really never thought much of either naming

No. It's Siegmeyer(And then Siegward in DkS3), not Siegmund, and his daughter Sieglinde. The only throughline there is "Sieg" in their names, which seems to just be the naming convention of the knights of Catarina.

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I did get mixed up, but it's interesting for some of those names. Sigurd = Siegfried. Siegward is most likely identical to the latter. Siegmeyer is likely derived from another Norse character of Siegfried's line or ancestry.

There's nothing to confirm that it is a reoccuring theme through Catarina knights (and probably never will be), but the names are picked because of the Germanic mythology.

Edited by Edgelord

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