Jump to content

How does Alm, character wise, strike you?


How does Alm, character wise, strike you?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about Alm?

    • I like Alm as a character
      34
    • I'm indifferent
      14
    • Not a fan
      10
    • Other
      2


Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

 There's a very good reason why Alm being handed leadership is criticized and Micaiah being handed leadership isn't: with Micaiah, it's far more organic. Micaiah was already a Joan-of-arc figure to the Daein people and an experienced leader of the Dawn Brigade from day 1. Izuka's plan was built on the name Micaiah had already earned in the eyes of the people. Clive's plan was, "Well; I've let everybody down. I'm going to give the position of leader to this kid just because he's Mycen's supposed grandson." Clive's plan is not unreasonable; especially for one built entirely on his own self-loathing at that point. The problem isn't his plan being "unreasonable"; it's that it undermines Alm's relatability in that he's just given the role because of Mycen, and believability in that Alm's first mission immediately afterwards is take the capital and its castle, and he just... succeeds. 

While that's a good point I feel it undermines Sir Mycens Status in not only Zofia but the whole continent. Michiah spent way longer building a name for herself, even before the first chapter of the game, that much is true but Mycen is a Legendary figure not only on par of an influence as "The Silver Haired Maiden" but arguably of more importance given literally everyone in Zofia and Rigel has heard of him. The reason I say arguably is because Tellius has more than 2 countries and is bigger so of course some random laguz dude hasnt heard of michiah. Mycen was a General, War Hero, and the only person they know of that git knighted even though he wasn't of noble birth. The build-up Mycen gets makes Alm's power a lot more understandable, with the only thing he lacked was experience (He had very disciplined training with Mycen for over 8 years in literally everything about war that he could possibly know without participating in one, he says so himself to Lukas). So that covers killing untrained bandits which we can all agree with, but with the soldiers and the outpost? I feel like we are undermining what he accomplished there as well as rather than just "saving one person" he took away a power position from the enemy and rescued the leaders own sister. Alm fought a good amount of battles before meeting Clive which gave him experience fighting not only brigands but trained soldiers, and again his power is explained by Mycen's accomplishments. Gaiden gameplay was in no way fast paced but the individual conflicts are super fast paced (you meet the resistance and then immediately attack the castle) but with its lack of story Echoes had to scrunch in a deeper more understandable story in those fast paced conflicts and all im saying is that Alm's accomplishments make sense and they purposely built up Mycen to what he was to validate Alm's power and story wise probably 1 of the strongest starting lords in the franchise (excluding sequel characters like RD Ike and characters with lots of experience at the start like Ephraim.) The writers took good steps to make things make more sense able and I believe that Alm's status was very earned. The issue is we don't see that and it's covered over exposition which ties to my argument that Alm is nothing special, just underappreciated in my opinion. On the other hand I'm glad you guys agree that hes better than Corrin as I've seen someone say he's just as bad.
 

10 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

While I think he's charming on a personal level, his character proved to be detrimental to the themes of the game and the credibility of the writing. Alm being a good boy who wins battle after battle is not too different from the likes of Eliwood and Marth but the issue I see is that this game called for him not being perfect. Alm and Celica are supposed to be two halves of a whole, but the game shows Alm being right about everything and Celica being wrong about everything. Every decision Alm makes ends up being the proper one, contrary to what his advisors might tell him. Additionally, all the stuff about the value of commoners is thrown out the window because Alm is secret royalty and a child of destiny.

I don't believe Alm is challenged in any way, in terms of his military success or his values, like Celica is. Reckless heroism is always the correct answer and Alm will lead the Deliverance to victory despite Zofia's MASSIVE disadvantage (recovering from a civil war, drought/famine, Terrors and the country's reputation as being full of lazy hedonists). Even the 'trauma' of killing off his father and cousin falls flat because he didn't even know who they were (and Berkut was a nasty piece of work) until right before they died.  

He's not Corrin but he might be Corrin-lite for how effortlessly he takes up the reins of leadership and is praised as being just naturally superior and his contrived despair over family members he never knew.

Quoting this because it's true. Micaiah is a messianic figure for the people of Daein and a proven leader by the time she is given her official title. Alm's accomplishments by the point he is made the leader of the Deliverance are rescuing two women. And then he becomes the hero of Zofia overnight because he somehow (helped) retake Zofia castle despite the Deliverance losing badly up to that point. 

See above. It is a shame that his ability is covered over exposition but it is covered nonetheless. Also I still am not sure how not knowing who his family was changes that his idea was flawed. He obviously couldn't be tricked by then enemy because there was none left alive. Even a lot of the Rigelian Generals were good people who had immense loyalty to Rudolph, and the villagers even tell you. Of course having no connection to Alm doesn't add that much, but its something.... There is so much stuff about Alm's character that gets overlooked and every time I play echoes he gets a little better. Again to reiterate I don't think Alm is anything special but a standard solid Protagonist for FE standards, I would place him at the middle of the pack in terms of rankings.

(P.s. Celica may have been tricked but she succeeded in proving to Mila her strength and devotion which is the only reason Alm got Falchion, and a conqueror as agressive as Alm would of never got Falchion form Mila without Celica's achievements throughout the game. So she is definitely not always wrong, she thought only of others even while she was in the clutches of Jedah.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

While I think he's charming on a personal level, his character proved to be detrimental to the themes of the game and the credibility of the writing. Alm being a good boy who wins battle after battle is not too different from the likes of Eliwood and Marth but the issue I see is that this game called for him not being perfect. Alm and Celica are supposed to be two halves of a whole, but the game shows Alm being right about everything and Celica being wrong about everything. Every decision Alm makes ends up being the proper one, contrary to what his advisors might tell him. Additionally, all the stuff about the value of commoners is thrown out the window because Alm is secret royalty and a child of destiny.

 

I wouldn't say Eliwood is too perfect and it wouldn't be good if he was. There's a reason why Hector is a popular and appreciated character. If Eliwood was too perfect, Hector wouldn't be a compelling lord and would bring as much ire as Celica does for being overshadowed by the other lord. The duality between Eliwood and Hector is the best among any two lords IMO. 

On 8/14/2018 at 5:42 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think people are a tad to hard on him when compared to other lords. Alm is showed to be an amazing guy who always wins out and is always in the right. But can we honestly say Marth is any less perfect? Its a little bit off putting when Alm is so obviously in the right in his conflict with Clive but its not like Merlinus isn't any less obviously wrong whenever he opens his mouth, and while Alm comes off better than Celica it certainly isn't to the extend that Ike just dominates poor Michy in how the plot portrays him. 

 

Not too long ago I mentioned this on Reddit as well. People criticize Alm more harshly when those same criticisms can apply to other more popular lords. I think people tend to criticize games/characters that are recent. 

Edited by Icelerate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Not too long ago I mentioned this on Reddit as well. People criticize Alm more harshly when those same criticisms can apply to other more popular lords. I think people tend to criticize games/characters that are recent. 

That's probably the reason though Fire Emblem's strange release history does make it understandable. Those who started with Awakening have a harder time contrasting Alm and Celica with Ike and Michy because they haven't played Tellius games, My Clive and Merlinus comparison can only be made if one has played FE6 and even a lot of veteran players probably haven't done so, and a lot of people might not have actually played Marth's games either. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personality-wise, Alm fits into the pretty big “not a favorite, but still a character I enjoyed” category. He’s a down-to-earth character with a goofy side, and as others have said, he’s likable and his voice actor did a wonderful job. That being said, while I like that his flaws subtle, they don't appear as much as they should.

Taking it as a publicity stunt, Alm's quick promotion as the leader of the Deliverance has a fair amount of credibility. He was, after all, personally trained by a well-respected knight, and if things went wrong he could make a good scapegoat. At least it's better than the pretty much nonexistent explanation in the original gaiden. I'm also fine with Alm's nonchalance at suddenly being the Rigelian Emperor, as taking down Duma and the Faithful were the priority mere minutes after gaining this position, and he was probably still in shock at the recent turn of events, so him being slow to realize the what the full meaning of this meant does makes sense.

With that said, I do wish that his recklessness was called out or at least shown more, and that we actually got his opinion on people assuming he would become king after the war was over. For the first point, the game either doesn't allow this flaw to appear, or when it does, portrays it in a more positive light. One gets the sense that Alm might be killed by his impulsiveness someday, but rarely is he called out for this in the game itself. As for the second point, it's more of a missed opportunity than anything else. Several characters mention that they expect Alm to become the next Zofian king once peace returns to the realm, but outside of his conversation with Celica (and even then, he just mentions that he'll do his duty and go home) we never hear his thoughts on the matter. Considering becoming the next king would have to be a conscientious choice on his part, it's odd that we never know if he's keen on the idea, if he dislikes how people are making assumptions, if he plans to refuse, or if he'll take the offer, and if so if he'll do so with excitement or reluctance. It's not a detriment to the game, but it is a missed opportunity.

I will admit, a reason I don't harp on Alm's problems as much as I could is due to how a sequel or expansion could easily show, analyze, and deconstruct several of the games criticisms. For example, Alm was completely clueless as to his heritage, so it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on how the "a persons worth is determined by their character and actions, not blood or title" Aesop he promoted was broken by something outside of his control. Similarly, we could see what he makes of being forced into leadership positions without much choice in the matter. We could see Alm and Celica grow as characters and leaders, and we'd get a deconstruction of the first games events and see how the aftermath would actually play out. I'd go on, but I've given my thoughts on the matter elsewhere

Summarized, while I fine Alm to work well enough as a character in the base game, there are still several missed opportunities IS could have taken in the remake. Fortunately, a sequel or expansion could alleviate or even solve some of these issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, JimmyBeans said:

See above. It is a shame that his ability is covered over exposition but it is covered nonetheless. Also I still am not sure how not knowing who his family was changes that his idea was flawed. He obviously couldn't be tricked by then enemy because there was none left alive. Even a lot of the Rigelian Generals were good people who had immense loyalty to Rudolph, and the villagers even tell you. Of course having no connection to Alm doesn't add that much, but its something.... There is so much stuff about Alm's character that gets overlooked and every time I play echoes he gets a little better. Again to reiterate I don't think Alm is anything special but a standard solid Protagonist for FE standards, I would place him at the middle of the pack in terms of rankings.

(P.s. Celica may have been tricked but she succeeded in proving to Mila her strength and devotion which is the only reason Alm got Falchion, and a conqueror as agressive as Alm would of never got Falchion form Mila without Celica's achievements throughout the game. So she is definitely not always wrong, she thought only of others even while she was in the clutches of Jedah.)

I'm not sure about which parts of my post you're replying to, but I'll try to answer your rebuttal to the best of my ability. In regards to Alm's military success, he (and by "he" I mean "Team Lukas feat. Alm") had a few modest victories before Alm is chosen as the leader of the Deliverance. Mycen might be a legend, but these properties don't automatically transfer to Alm. Alm does give some exposition about him being trained for years by Mycen but there is really only so much you can learn about war and being a good leader from books. Were that not so, even Corrin, who spends his childhood locked in a castle with nothing to do but practice swordplay and read books, would be equally qualified to be a leader. I think I would have been more convinced that Alm makes a good leader if he came up with the winning move that let them retake Zofia castle. That would be a worthy accomplishment that could oonvince the self-doubting Clive that Alm was the fresh blood they needed.  The way the game presented itself gave me the impression that Alm is made the leader because the Deliverance threw their hands in the air and said "Welp, I guess anyone can do this job better than I can".

I'm not sure what you mean by Alm having flaws. The only mistakes he made are 1. Falling for Nuibaba's trap, which doesn't matter because he just kills her anyway, and 2. Killing Rudolf, who baited the action. Alm could be shaken by killing off two of his blood relatives but it's not a mistake on his part and certainly not something he should grieve over.

In regards to Celica, Mila credits Alm just as much as Celica for convincing her to unseal Falchion. The fact is, Celica's actions had borderline disastrous consequences and ends with her admitting to Alm that she was wrong about her perspective on life (and Alm giving her some lip-service about needing her to temper him). I don't have a high opinion of Celica's character but that's probably a discussion for another topic.

10 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I wouldn't say Eliwood is too perfect and it wouldn't be good if he was. There's a reason why Hector is a popular and appreciated character. If Eliwood was too perfect, Hector wouldn't be a compelling lord and would bring as much ire as Celica does for being overshadowed by the other lord. The duality between Eliwood and Hector is the best among any two lords IMO. 

Indeed, I meant more to categorize Eliwood and Marth into the "Good Prince" archetype. There is nuance to both characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎17 at 1:58 AM, NekoKnight said:

I'm not sure what you mean by Alm having flaws. The only mistakes he made are 1. Falling for Nuibaba's trap, which doesn't matter because he just kills her anyway, and 2. Killing Rudolf, who baited the action. Alm could be shaken by killing off two of his blood relatives but it's not a mistake on his part and certainly not something he should grieve over.

Wow; I never even interpreted that event as Alm falling for the trap. I thought Alm suspected something was up and went anyway, which was a refreshing change of pace from the usual 'naïve hero falls for the obvious trap'.

Edited by vanguard333
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there's much I can say that hasn't been said already. I'm not a fan of Alm because I consider the way he's written to be a detriment to the story I think Echoes set out to tell. In a game all about duality - two gods, two countries, two beliefs, two protagonists who supposedly part ways because of two differing beliefs - it's very strange to have one of the two main characters start out as close as you can get to flawless barring some inexperience (that doesn't hinder him anyway). The themes are ruined, Alm continues an impossible curbstomp of Rigel in spite of Zofia's situation without any real explanation, and Celica is thrown under the bus.

I see a lot of people writing about Alm's charm and jokes. I played the Japanese version and never got to experience that because Japanese Alm - or the script in general - has fewer jokes as far as I was able to tell. Alm's observations, to my knowledge, are much more to the point and less colorful.

Echoes would've benefited immensely from Awakening Alm, I daresay. Awakening Alm's quotes were infinitely more interesting than anything Echoes Alm says, my favorite being "Grandpapa...I've lost my way..." which shows that he knew he had become a fairly twisted individual in need of help and guidance. Hmm, if only there was someone who could do just that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I freaking love him. I can see why people wouldn't like him and think of him as Gary Stuish since he has so much sht just handed to him without him having to really prove himself to earn it but I pretty much love everything about him. I find his dorkiness adorable and relatable and I honestly think the game really makes you feel sorry for him when you realize he's constantly losing people close to him (his dad, his woman, his cousin) and really shows that he's internally so lonely and just wants to be with other people. Plus, even if he is handed his ranks without much effort, it can't be denied how much he proved himself that he deserved it. He went from a commoner to finding out he's royalty and it never changes his perspective on what he wants to do. I really ended up enjoying him as a character and I can say he's one of my favorites.

The only thing I can say I dislike about him is that he just takes so much sht from Celica for things that aren't necessarily his fault. Granted of course she apologizes and he says that he was never really mad in the first place, but I just feel he's too reluctant to explain himself fully when she questions certain things. Same for Clive and Claire if Mathilda dies (which I get he has a right to be mad about but to put sole blame Alm when it's not like Alm is even responsible for her getting kidnapped in the first place is slightly unfair to me) and he just takes all their sht, I just feel there are a few times he doesn't stand up for himself even when things aren't really his fault. He is humble in that sense and I get why but it's a minor thing that irked me.

But overall, I think he's a good character. He doesn't come across as perfect and is under a lot of pressure and has to prove himself and earn the respect of most people he comes in contact with and ends up managing to do it. I enjoyed the development he got~

Edited by Landmaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...