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Jerry Kuma

Would FE4 be Different if Sigurd had a gun?

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Just think of it, guns make humans one the strongest animals in the world. Sigurd who is jesus on wheels is able to conquer entire nations BY HIMSELF with only a silver sword. imagine now with a gun the things he can do

Edited by Jerry Kuma

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As long as Arvis gives him a radiant Silver Gun.

And Arvis then mows down Sigurd later with a flamethrower. The former Book of Naga can be a launcher firing serpentine rockets.

 

Would silver be at all good for bullets actually? Besides killing werewolves/the unholy, would the softness of the metal make it good anti-personnel in some ways?

 

Should FE rename its Silver stuff Mythril to be slightly more fantasy-sensical? Or is Tolkien borrowing bad?

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3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Would silver be at all good for bullets actually? Besides killing werewolves/the unholy, would the softness of the metal make it good anti-personnel in some ways?

Silver bullets are good against loptous possesed red haired people i heard.

 

Edited by Jerry Kuma

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Assuming the technology exists and is available, his enemies would also have guns.

A sword is a weapon that's effectiveness is more dependent on the individual strength and skill and training of its user, and where a particularly strong and highly-skilled individual can be massively more dangerous with said weapon + have some reasonable prospect of single-handedly beating many weaker, less-skilled foes.

Whereas a gun is more universally deadly in the hands of anyone who can point-and-click.

A particularly strong and well-trained individual may be able to carry a bigger gun + fire more shots at longer range with better accuracy. But anyone else with a gun can still shoot him dead. And single-handedly engaging many opponents with guns--even unskilled ones--is eventually going to result in getting shot.

Introducing guns to the ~verse therefore makes a swordsman as skilled and powerful as Sigurd substantially less dangerous.  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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27 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Assuming the technology exists and is available, his enemies would also have guns.

A sword is a weapon that's effectiveness is more dependent on the individual strength and skill and training of its user, and where a particularly strong and highly-skilled individual can be massively more dangerous with said weapon + have some reasonable prospect of single-handedly beating many weaker, less-skilled foes.

Whereas a gun is more universally deadly in the hands of anyone who can point-and-click.

And a particularly strong and well-trained individual may be able to carry a bigger gun + fire more shots at longer range with better accuracy. But anyone else with a gun can still shoot him dead. And single-handedly engaging many opponents with guns--even unskilled ones--is eventually going to result in getting shot.

Introducing guns to the ~verse makes a swordsman as skilled and powerful as Sigurd substantially less dangerous.  

He could use his power to wield a bazooka though a bazooka that fires silver rockets. Your point is invalid.

Edited by Jerry Kuma

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See, if there's guns, there's probably other forms of explosives.  So at the end of Chapter 5, someone in Sigurd's army could bring a lot of grenades.  While the ensuing Valflame would be unfortunate, at least his army could do some collateral damage on the way out!

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48 minutes ago, eclipse said:

See, if there's guns, there's probably other forms of explosives.  So at the end of Chapter 5, someone in Sigurd's army could bring a lot of grenades.  While the ensuing Valflame would be unfortunate, at least his army could do some collateral damage on the way out!

They also end up killing the boss of Chapter 10 5 chapters early, which is a nice bonus.

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Man, now I want a game with Sigurd shooting up people with a gun atop his motorcycle.

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Would silver be at all good for bullets actually? Besides killing werewolves/the unholy, would the softness of the metal make it good anti-personnel in some ways?

I think that provided there is no body armor thrown into the equation it probably wouldn't be all that ineffective, people are way squishier than silver I think and even lead flattens when you throw it on the ground, I think the shape would be more important than the material, even if you can't get absolute penetration with them, store your bullets in a corpse overnight for some classic biological warfare, they either die or get so infected that they will never fight again. 

so, I guess the conclusion is, ok, I guess, it'll go through the squishy parts just fine, but probably get lodged in a bone somewhere down the line, which is great for the long term, but not very useful in the moment, unideal at best is my estimation, let's not ignore the waste of a good lightning rod either. 

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If Sigurd had, like, a low-caliber assault rifle or carbine rifle with a tight firing pattern, while everyone else had unwieldy AK-47's, then yes, he'd probably stand a better chance.  But the thing is, guns are kind of an equalizing force; even with the best, most accurate assault rifles, you're still going to be driven into cover if you're up against someone else with an assault rifle, even if their rifle is crappy.  Only if your enemy has limited ammunition or their guns jam would you have an advantage in such a case.

The militaries of Jugdral would be transformed to be more like modern militaries.  Admittedly, there's not too much different from medieval militaries and modern militaries as far as organization and rank is concerned, but the training and armaments would be different.  There's no way Sigurd would be able to just charge the battlefield by himself or solo everything (then again, that's pretty unrealistic in a medieval setting anyway, but that's beside the point); he'd need the support of his team to get through.

With that said, I believe that each house and kingdom outside of Grannvale would specialize in particular armaments and tactics.  For example, I'd believe Velthomer would be all about explosives and artillery (maybe flamethrowers, too), Freege would specialize in shock troop tactics (the ones Nazi Germany developed for their infantry), Dozel would be heavy support units, Edda would have the largest concentration of trained surgeons and field medics, Jungby would be a bunch of snipers, Chalphy would be the cavalry, and Belhalla, being the capitol, would supply every other major function (including air support).  This is to reflect the militaristic diversity that Grannvale enjoys in the actual game, and would be the reason why they're still the most powerful military in Jugdral, since every other country seems to focus solely on one or two types of units (e.g. Silesia is about air and anti-air combat, Isaac is mostly standard infantry, etc.).

This way too, Sigurd's army could probably stand some chance, since he could form a small military that still covers all the major functions of such an organization; he'd have someone with some experience with explosives (Azel), a guy who works with heavy arms (Lex), a seasoned sniper (Brigid), a girl who may know a bit about being a storm trooper (Tailtiu), air support (Fury), anti-air (Levin), standard infantry (Ayra and Chulainn), and of course he himself would bring the cavalry.  It would not be much of a chance, as he would still have to challenge vastly superior numbers, but since most of them tend to come at him with one tactic in mind and a particular set of armaments (and also one at a time instead of everyone pouncing him at once), he would have the advantage of diverse tactics.  All of this would apply to Seliph's army as well.

So in the end, if anyone would be the hero it'd be Oifaye the tactician, which I'm perfectly okay with because Oifaye's a badass.  Though that wouldn't take away from Sigurd's noble, benevolent nature leaving a huge impact on the world and the people he comes across, especially if not much has changed with the nasty political games of Jugdral as a whole (spoiler: politics still suck in the modern era).

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Not really, actually. Sigurd was caught by surprise. Guns couldn't protect him against valflame, or the thousands of fire mages who were alongside arvis.

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1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

This way too, Sigurd's army could probably stand some chance, since he could form a small military that still covers all the major functions of such an organization; he'd have someone with some experience with explosives (Azel), a guy who works with heavy arms (Lex), a seasoned sniper (Brigid), a girl who may know a bit about being a storm trooper (Tailtiu), air support (Fury), anti-air (Levin), standard infantry (Ayra and Chulainn), and of course he himself would bring the cavalry.  It would not be much of a chance, as he would still have to challenge vastly superior numbers, but since most of them tend to come at him with one tactic in mind and a particular set of armaments (and also one at a time instead of everyone pouncing him at once), he would have the advantage of diverse tactics.  All of this would apply to Seliph's army as well.

You're forgetting Deirdre and Julia the Valkyrias. Of course this would likely make Lex Darcsen- probably would be a great reason for him to not get along with his family- Mommy being considered scum and all. And Sigurd would be one too, but somehow Ethlyn wouldn't be despite being a full-sister.

 

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

With that said, I believe that each house and kingdom outside of Grannvale would specialize in particular armaments and tactics.  For example, I'd believe Velthomer would be all about explosives and artillery (maybe flamethrowers, too), Freege would specialize in shock troop tactics (the ones Nazi Germany developed for their infantry), Dozel would be heavy support units, Edda would have the largest concentration of trained surgeons and field medics, Jungby would be a bunch of snipers, Chalphy would be the cavalry, and Belhalla, being the capitol, would supply every other major function (including air support).  This is to reflect the militaristic diversity that Grannvale enjoys in the actual game, and would be the reason why they're still the most powerful military in Jugdral, since every other country seems to focus solely on one or two types of units (e.g. Silesia is about air and anti-air combat, Isaac is mostly standard infantry, etc.).

Ya know I've seen plays and operas that modernize the setting while keeping the plot and scripts unaltered- a Hamlet production with machine guns (the fencing duel remains fencing though), and Der Rosenkavalier moved up to the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Since FE4 is so grand, and rooted in Germanic stuff which is one of the three usual opera languages, I could see FE4 updated the same way.

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17 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Not really, actually. Sigurd was caught by surprise. Guns couldn't protect him against valflame, or the thousands of fire mages who were alongside arvis.

Or, assuming everyone had access to modern firearms technology, a hailstorm of AA gunfire, mortars, machine gunfire, and whatever else Belhalla might bring to such an execution.  Or just a plain old firing brigade; depends on if they were more like America or North Korea, I suppose.  Regardless, Sigurd never stood a chance because he wasn't prepared for a battle, he was prepared for a celebration, and I have to assume they were all disarmed beforehand just to be safe.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You're forgetting Deirdre and Julia the Valkyrias. Of course this would likely make Lex Darcsen- probably would be a great reason for him to not get along with his family- Mommy being considered scum and all. And Sigurd would be one too, but somehow Ethlyn wouldn't be despite being a full-sister.

I'd totally be down for Darcsen Lex.  It'd give me more of an incentive to try and kill Langobalt with him instead of Sigurd or a mage; the ultimate revenge against a bunch of spiteful bigots.  And then every playthrough, the two most ridiculously strong units of the second generation would also be Darcsens.

And if Sigurd was one, then it's like... how the hell did the Darcsens ever lose against the Valkyrur?  All of the most powerful people in the whole game would be Darcsens, and the most feeble and impractical combatant (Deirdre) was a Valkyrur.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ya know I've seen plays and operas that modernize the setting while keeping the plot and scripts unaltered- a Hamlet production with machine guns (the fencing duel remains fencing though), and Der Rosenkavalier moved up to the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Since FE4 is so grand, and rooted in Germanic stuff which is one of the three usual opera languages, I could see FE4 updated the same way.

I've never seen them, but I have heard of them.

One idea I had for allowing such things like fencing duels and the like to remain is if all combatants had something akin to Mass Effect's kinetic barriers - invisible shields that deflect any projectiles that fly at the user as quickly as a bullet (unless the barrier is shot at enough times to overheat/overload it temporarily), but doesn't deflect slower objects like chairs.  This way, melee weapons like swords and lances would still be viable if the combatants are fighting at close range, and bows could still be viable long-range weapons.

On the other hand, I'd like to see FE4 with just modern weapons and vehicles.  The funny thing is, in my proposed "military focus" scenario, everyone from Chalphy would be commanding tanks and APCs because that's the modern version of a cavalry (and Arden and all armor knights/generals would probably command those wildly impractical Super Heavy Tank prototypes).  So really, Sigurd would be pretty damn powerful for most of the game, only really having to be concerned about other tanks, explosives, and artillery.  And again, I'll point out that the equivalent of those are cavaliers and mages, which are actually the biggest threats to Sigurd in the original game (which admittedly aren't that bad for him, since he's just stupid powerful regardless, but still).

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3 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

On the other hand, I'd like to see FE4 with just modern weapons and vehicles.  The funny thing is, in my proposed "military focus" scenario, everyone from Chalphy would be commanding tanks and APCs because that's the modern version of a cavalry (and Arden and all armor knights/generals would probably command those wildly impractical Super Heavy Tank prototypes).  So really, Sigurd would be pretty damn powerful for most of the game, only really having to be concerned about other tanks, explosives, and artillery.  And again, I'll point out that the equivalent of those are cavaliers and mages, which are actually the biggest threats to Sigurd in the original game (which admittedly aren't that bad for him, since he's just stupid powerful regardless, but still).

Tyrfing in such a scenario would either be a tank, or a cannon, or a prow on a landship. Would be amazing, although explaining how Byron hid one, Arvis then tucked it away, and Palmark handing it to Seliph to and getting away without giving an answer as to how he got it, would be harder.

 

Which reminds me of a bit of fanficting I did once:

The Vethomerian Landship Valflame: A large-large class landship. The Valflame relies on Draconis Simulans Sanguineus (DSS), a system in which energy is pumped from the core of the ship into a network of pipes throughout the ship containing artificial dragon blood. The dragon blood is capable of holding immense quantities of energy, and being present throughout the airship, it allows for quick and intense use of power in any and all parts of the vessel. The Valflame’s signature weapon is Justice’s Firebrand- an incredibly hot and powerful meteor strike capable of covering a long range. Justice’s Firebrand is certain to leave a scarring mark- provided one can even survive a strike in the first place, which is a feat few battleships can accomplish. To unleash its full power, the individual in the trigger sigil must of be of the Crusader Fjalar’s blood, they alone can keep the incredible power under control during a release at or exceeding a 100% charge. The temperatures generated by the Firebrand are tolerated by the ship only owing to the speed at which a charge is fired, and the ship as a whole being designed to handle high temperatures since it runs purely on fire magical energies. Secondary weapons on the Valflame are focused on covering closer ranges, and include flamethrowers and fiery cannons alongside some minor other elements. Defensively, the Valflame has so much energy it can afford to funnel some at all times into defensive measures, which include an augmented Great Firewall. Its armor isn’t the thickest, but the Great Firewall helps significantly, and its speed for a landship is rather average or low.

The Grannvalian Airship Valflame- A large-large class ambiship. The Valflame upon Arvis’s elevation to Emperor underwent massive renovations to become worthy of being the flagship of the Grannvalian Empire. Its improvements required the conscripted labor of non-Grannvalians, alongside tribute extracted from the same peoples, and the appropriation of the estates of Chalphy and Edda. First, the engine was enlarged enough to enable flight, whilst still keeping the Valflame’s abilities as a landship. Additional armor was layered on thickly, to make it near impenetrable combined with the Great Firewall. The quality of the old secondary weaponry was upgraded, and new additions like a Silver Blade Scattershot were added. The result is the finest ship to ever be crafted in Jugdral, but it terribly lacks in mobility even when airborne.

The Freegian Airship Mjolnir: A medium-large class airship. Uses a DSS system like the Valflame, but the simulant dragon blood is different, based on that which courses through the veins of the Freeges. The Mjolnir’s keystone weapon is the Hammering Thunder, which not only cuts through foes in front of the target, but envelops them from all sides and directions with bolts of almighty lightning. The electricity-based propulsion system of the Mjolnir allows for easier turning, but does little to bolster the ship’s actual speed. The DSS here is enhances the battleship’s targeting system, making its weapons extremely precise and capable of bending to hit the weaker spots in the enemy’s armor.  Armor on the ship itself decently thick.

The Silessean Airship Forseti: A small-large class airship. As with its Grannvalian counterparts, it uses DSS for unrivaled power storage and access. Its primary weapon is the Omnipresent Wind. Again, like the Valflame and its Justice’s Firebrand and the Mjolnir’s Hammering Thunder, the Omnipresent Wind uses an artificial dragonstone as the launch device for the supremely powerful spell. And, as with the Valflame and Mjolnir, it requires one of the dragon god Forseti’s blood to fully invoke. However, the Forseti differs heavily from the Grannvalian flagships beyond this. Whereas the Firebrand immolates a single target and all in the path to it, the Omnipresent Wind emphasizes mass casualties. The Omnipresent Wind saturates a large area with wind power, and then agitates it, causing it to rupture in a turbulent explosion. It is not quite as singularly deadly, but it is more than enough to cripple if not destroy vast hordes of foes, with nary an aircraft able to survive the maelstrom. The armor for such a large airship is lacking, but the wind-based propulsion system is unparalleled. In spite of its size, the Forseti can turn on a dime and quickly accelerate to very high speeds, giving it mobility, aiming flexibility, and evasive maneuvers far beyond what it should be capable of. 

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