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So we all know the ending to awakening where robin sacrifices him/herself to kill grima once and for all. However that was future grima right? so what of the Grima in the present is he still alive or did he merge with future Grima and is dead now? ugh I may love awakening but sometimes it's time travel can be bit weird.

Edited by Otts486

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As I understand it, Grima is split between a mind and a body. The Grima we fight at the end of the game is present Grima's body, controlled by future Grima's mind. Present Robin is Present Grima as much as Future Robin is Future Grima. He tried to merge before the start of the game, but failed. So to answer the question, yes, Grima is still alive, as Robin (although really it makes no sense that he survived), though with the body seemingly permanently destroyed it's a moot point.

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27 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

No villain dies forever in FE. Looking at you, earth dragons. 

They're dead by Awakening. The reason its called the Dragon's Table is because Grima had an all your can eat buffet, with the menu being Earth Dragons.

2 hours ago, Otts486 said:

So we all know the ending to awakening where robin sacrifices him/herself to kill grima once and for all. However that was future grima right? so what of the Grima in the present is he still alive or did he merge with future Grima and is dead now? ugh I may love awakening but sometimes it's time travel can be bit weird.

Based on what I have heard, the dragon body is Present Grima, but the mind if Future Grima. And the mark of Grima vanishing from Robin means that he's no longer Grima. The bloodline was severed for good ad Grima is gone for good.

However, here's what I feel is interesting.

Regardless whether you kill Grima or seal him, Grima won in some way.

Grima despises humans, a great deal in fact. 

So if you seal him, Grima can and will come back, and may destroy all of humanity.

If you kill Grima, he's no longer bound to humans and thus freed from said humans. 

One way or another, Grima can be rid of humans for himself.

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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

They're dead by Awakening. The reason its called the Dragon's Table is because Grima had an all your can eat buffet, with the menu being Earth Dragons.

Based on what I have heard, the dragon body is Present Grima, but the mind if Future Grima. And the mark of Grima vanishing from Robin means that he's no longer Grima. The bloodline was severed for good ad Grima is gone for good.

However, here's what I feel is interesting.

Regardless whether you kill Grima or seal him, Grima won in some way.

Grima despises humans, a great deal in fact. 

So if you seal him, Grima can and will come back, and may destroy all of humanity.

If you kill Grima, he's no longer bound to humans and thus freed from said humans. 

One way or another, Grima can be rid of humans for himself.

I mean yeah but shouldn't his spirit or mind still exist in some capacity? I don't know I'm just speculating here.

Edited by Otts486

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1 minute ago, Otts486 said:

I mean yeah but shouldn't his spirit or mind still exist in some capacity? I don't know I'm just speculating here.

The spirit runs through the blood. It's similar to what Julius says about the blood of Naga. So long as you hold a connection in blood, the spirit of the dragon exists within you. It's why Julius said that all with Naga's blood must be killed. 

Robin, however, was Grima. Being a carrier of Grima's soul, the Heart of Grima, this actually gives Robin the right and ability to terminate the blood pact. He was essentially erasing Grima's spirit from the world, and those that had Grima's blood, and therefore his spirit, running through their veins, would end up losing that connection. Could consider that the magical aspect of their blood was lost. Since Robin is the ONLY Fellblood, he vanished and reappeared. 

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5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

They're dead by Awakening. The reason its called the Dragon's Table is because Grima had an all your can eat buffet, with the menu being Earth Dragons.

 

I mean maybe they can just pop out of the corpse again. You never know seeing as how the Earth Dragons still just poof into existence whenever blame needed to be placed on someone. 

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1 hour ago, Kazuya said:

I mean maybe they can just pop out of the corpse again. You never know seeing as how the Earth Dragons still just poof into existence whenever blame needed to be placed on someone. 

What corpse? There are a good 1000 years since Grima ate them before he emerged once more. The Earth Dragons only existed as they did for their life force, but that's only from injuries and such. They were devoured, likely of their very same life force. 

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I think the Grima we dealt with in Awakening is well and truly dead if we go the sacrifice route.

However, since we basically have "infinite timelines and worlds", I'm sure there are plenty of scenarios where he does succeed in killing everything or where he's just soaking in a hot tub after a heated game of Super Smash Bros.

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15 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

They're dead by Awakening. The reason its called the Dragon's Table is because Grima had an all your can eat buffet, with the menu being Earth Dragons.

Where did you get this info? I've never heard about this until today.

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2 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Where did you get this info? I've never heard about this until today.

You only need the context of info.

For example: It took 600 years for the Earth Dragons to start waking up after the Shield of Seals was broken by Adrah. 

So why and how would no Earth Dragons show up after an entire 1000 years where the Shield of Seals was broken up? Remember that after Grima's defeat by the First Exalt, there was a period known as the Schism where the Shield of Seals had been demanded to have the Gemstones broken out of it and scattered. Hell, Tiki herself was keeping one of the Gemstones.

And the tower where the Earth Dragons were all sealed under suddenly became a place of worship for Grima where it was called the Dragon's Table. Aversa even made the case about how the Dragon's Table is cause it was where Grima would feast on his sacrifices. So clearly something was eaten 1000 years ago when first emerged.

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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You only need the context of info.

For example: It took 600 years for the Earth Dragons to start waking up after the Shield of Seals was broken by Adrah. 

So why and how would no Earth Dragons show up after an entire 1000 years where the Shield of Seals was broken up? Remember that after Grima's defeat by the First Exalt, there was a period known as the Schism where the Shield of Seals had been demanded to have the Gemstones broken out of it and scattered. Hell, Tiki herself was keeping one of the Gemstones.

And the tower where the Earth Dragons were all sealed under suddenly became a place of worship for Grima where it was called the Dragon's Table. Aversa even made the case about how the Dragon's Table is cause it was where Grima would feast on his sacrifices. So clearly something was eaten 1000 years ago when first emerged.

This sounds legit & all, but I rather have an actual confirmation instead of well thought out speculations. It's does makes sense, but maybe it would make more sense if I knew more the Archenea lore.

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3 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

This sounds legit & all, but I rather have an actual confirmation instead of well thought out speculations. It's does makes sense, but maybe it would make more sense if I knew more the Archenea lore.

Understandable. One of the biggest complaints about Awakening, after all, is how so much of the original lore was altered. Some even said that Awakening would have been great as a standalone story rather than take place 2000 years after New Mystery.

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36 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You only need the context of info.

For example: It took 600 years for the Earth Dragons to start waking up after the Shield of Seals was broken by Adrah. 

So why and how would no Earth Dragons show up after an entire 1000 years where the Shield of Seals was broken up? Remember that after Grima's defeat by the First Exalt, there was a period known as the Schism where the Shield of Seals had been demanded to have the Gemstones broken out of it and scattered. Hell, Tiki herself was keeping one of the Gemstones.

And the tower where the Earth Dragons were all sealed under suddenly became a place of worship for Grima where it was called the Dragon's Table. Aversa even made the case about how the Dragon's Table is cause it was where Grima would feast on his sacrifices. So clearly something was eaten 1000 years ago when first emerged.

That just means something happened. Doesn't imply at all that Grima ate them. For all we know Marth went back and killed them all in their sleep.  Naga's also around in a more active role during the Awakening timeline, maybe she found a way to more permanently deal with them. Or maybe they're still there and would have naturally stayed sealed for more than six hundred years originally but Gharnef was actively trying to break the seal sped the process up. Or maybe a combination of all those things. Grima eating them is only potentiality.

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42 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That just means something happened. Doesn't imply at all that Grima ate them. For all we know Marth went back and killed them all in their sleep.  Naga's also around in a more active role during the Awakening timeline, maybe she found a way to more permanently deal with them. Or maybe they're still there and would have naturally stayed sealed for more than six hundred years originally but Gharnef was actively trying to break the seal sped the process up. Or maybe a combination of all those things. Grima eating them is only potentiality.

First off, Marth wouldn't do that. Anyone that plays the Archanea series would know that's not his character. Plus, it was pretty clear that they had too much life force to simply kill.

Second of all, Naga plays an active role, but note that Naga is merely a spirit, and therefore has limited ability to actually intervene in the physical world. 

Gharnef didn't need to do anything, Gotoh said that the Earth Dragons were starting to naturally wake up. Gharnef was only actively trying to wake Medeus up since he went to sleep the earliest. 

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7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

First off, Marth wouldn't do that. Anyone that plays the Archanea series would know that's not his character. Plus, it was pretty clear that they had too much life force to simply kill.

Second of all, Naga plays an active role, but note that Naga is merely a spirit, and therefore has limited ability to actually intervene in the physical world. 

Gharnef didn't need to do anything, Gotoh said that the Earth Dragons were starting to naturally wake up. Gharnef was only actively trying to wake Medeus up since he went to sleep the earliest. 

Marth certainly is an empathetic individual, but the Earth Dragons are basically mindless beasts devoid of sapience and pose a threat to the very world itself. And just because they are naturally waking on their own, doesn't mean Gharnef isn't also speeding up the process. Otherwise it's just a crazy coincidence that the Earth Dragons have started breaking their seals the same decade Medeus came back to life (twice).

We have no idea indication one way or the other how limited Naga's abilities are in the world nor do we have any idea how easy or difficult it could be for a being like Naga to improve or break the seal. What we are talking about here is pure speculation. You can say one thing, I can say another, but the end of the day it is completely uncredited. We don't know what happened in the two thousand years that elapsed between Shadow Dragon and Awakening, we can guess that something happened to the Earth Dragons as they don't seem to be around, but saying Grima ate them all is just as likely as saying Nagi ate them all.

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45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Marth certainly is an empathetic individual, but the Earth Dragons are basically mindless beasts devoid of sapience and pose a threat to the very world itself. And just because they are naturally waking on their own, doesn't mean Gharnef isn't also speeding up the process. Otherwise it's just a crazy coincidence that the Earth Dragons have started breaking their seals the same decade Medeus came back to life (twice).

1

Marth wouldn't attack unless provoked in these cases. He would not go and try to kill, which he likely couldn't even. The Earth Dragons wouldn't die even if he tried to kill them. The Divine Dragons wouldn't have just locked them up if they could have killed them. 

Quote

Marth:
You mean...! This Fire Emblem is the Binding Shield... Lord Gotoh, does that mean... If I were to place all five orbs into this, the Binding Shield will be restored? 

Gotoh:
You are indeed correct... But 600 years have passed since it broke... The earth dragons sealed under Macedon will soon awaken. There are severalhundreds--no, several thousands. I will entrust Tiki to you as well. You will find her in the room to the right. With her, you can defeat those dragons. But I must warn you. If you do not complete the Binding Shield, even Tiki will be destroyed. 

2
Quote

Gotoh:
Not exactly. Even sleeping earth dragons should not awaken for centuries or so. The next time Medeus awakens though, he will rise as a terrifying Shadow Dragon... No, wait...! Perhaps...? Yes, I see... So that's why Gharnef... 

Marth:
What's the matter, Lord Gotoh? 

Gotoh:
Prince Marth. I have finally realized the reason why Gharnef kidnapped the clerics. He intends to use them to resurrect Medeus. To hasten the awakening of a dragon requires the life force of pure, maiden women. Knowing this, Gharnef kidnapped them. 

 

Based on this, 4 maidens are needed to hasten the awakening of a SINGLE dragon, that dragon being Medeus. So Gharnef has no other method to hasten the awakening of any of the other dragons.

49 minutes ago, Jotari said:

We have no idea indication one way or the other how limited Naga's abilities are in the world nor do we have any idea how easy or difficult it could be for a being like Naga to improve or break the seal. What we are talking about here is pure speculation. You can say one thing, I can say another, but the end of the day it is completely uncredited. We don't know what happened in the two thousand years that elapsed between Shadow Dragon and Awakening, we can guess that something happened to the Earth Dragons as they don't seem to be around, but saying Grima ate them all is just as likely as saying Nagi ate them all.

The very fact that Naga requires to have five Gemstones, Falchion, the Fire Emblem, and a specific location needed to perform the Awakening shows a LOT of restrictions that Naga has up there. 

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19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Marth wouldn't attack unless provoked in these cases. He would not go and try to kill, which he likely couldn't even. The Earth Dragons wouldn't die even if he tried to kill them. The Divine Dragons wouldn't have just locked them up if they could have killed them. 

Based on this, 4 maidens are needed to hasten the awakening of a SINGLE dragon, that dragon being Medeus. So Gharnef has no other method to hasten the awakening of any of the other dragons.

The very fact that Naga requires to have five Gemstones, Falchion, the Fire Emblem, and a specific location needed to perform the Awakening shows a LOT of restrictions that Naga has up there. 

You don't seem to realize what it is I'm actually saying. I could argue those points (hell you even highlighted the fact that the Earth Dragons shouldn't awaken for several more centuries yet we actively see them awake and even outside the Dragon's Table in game), but it's all irrelevant as what we're arguing is headcanon. Nothing I say is any more or less substantial than what you say when it comes to where the Earth Dragons are at the time of Awakening. I'm not arguing that my points are right, they're just examples of alternate possibilities I thought up on the spot that are just as viable as the idea that Grima ate them. Grima eating the Earth Dragons is not a logically deduced proof, it's a logically deduced possibility, one among many.

Edited by Jotari

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7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You don't seem to realize what it is I'm actually saying. I could argue those points (hell you even highlighted the fact that the Earth Dragons shouldn't awaken for several more centuries yet we actively see them awake and even outside the Dragon's Table in game), but it's all irrelevant as what we're arguing is headcanon. Nothing I say is any more or less substantial than what you say when it comes to where the Earth Dragons are at the time of Awakening. I'm not arguing that my points are right, they're just examples of alternate possibilities I thought up on the spot that are just as viable as the idea that Grima ate them. Grima eating the Earth Dragons is not a logically deduced proof, it's a logically deduced possibility, one among many.

2

That's true. However, one thing I will say is that Gotoh didn't say several more centuries. He says it takes several centuries. The Earth Dragons that we see in the game originally weren't there originally, but the remake added them in. However, given that Shadow Dragon and Mystery takes place relatively close, it's easy to get that an Earth Dragon or two could have awoken by then. Remember that Dolhr is right where the Dragon's Table it. 

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7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's true. However, one thing I will say is that Gotoh didn't say several more centuries. He says it takes several centuries. The Earth Dragons that we see in the game originally weren't there originally, but the remake added them in. However, given that Shadow Dragon and Mystery takes place relatively close, it's easy to get that an Earth Dragon or two could have awoken by then. Remember that Dolhr is right where the Dragon's Table it. 

We see an Earth Dragon as far away as Archanea Castle, even in the original. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Jotari said:

We see an Earth Dragon as far away as Archanea Castle, even in the original. 

 

Which I mentioned even in that case, it isn't hard to believe that one or two Earth Dragons could awaken naturally. As Gotoh said, 600 years passed.

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