Jump to content

What non-echo Square Enix rep (besides Geno) would you like in Smash Ultimate?


Perkilator
 Share

Recommended Posts

There is one Final Fantasy character I would love to see in Smash, and I daresay this character could boast a moveset that better represents FF as a whole moreso than Cloud's FF7 repertoire of skills.

 

And that character......................... is Ramza Beoulve.

 

--Now now, hey! Put down those swordreavers and pitchforks! He doesn't wield just swords, ok? Just hear me out.

*Takes a deep breath* ...OK. Now...why do I want this squire-turned-heretic-but-actually-a-hero, whose heroic actions were left out of most Ivalice history books, to be in Smash? Well, putting aside my clear bias for Final Fantasy Tactics, I implied earlier that Ramza's moveset could represent the series as a whole. How? Simple.

The Job System.

In FFT you can change units in your party to an assortment of "Jobs" (that is, Classes), learn skills from those Jobs and use them as a secondary skillset in another Job. i.e. A Knight, who has Battle Skills for breaking enemy's equipment/reducing stats could also use Black Magic, or White Magic, or a Mediator's talking skills if s/he has learned them. Now even though Ramza is a Squire by default, he can change to any of these classes (once you meet the level prerequisites), learn a huge variety of skills and use many different weapons. Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it...? It's kind of like Fire Emblem Awakening's Second Seals and learning skills. But unlike that game, you are encouraged to learn as many Jobs and skills as you can. FFT is no cakewalk, so you're going to want that variety of skills so you can have multiple ways to strategize and tackle each story battle.

These various Jobs and their weapons and skills, but mainly the weapons. This is what would make up Ramza's moveset. Something along these lines: (And keep in mind I'm going by the PS1 version's blind-idiot translation; I never played the PSP version, only watched the cutscenes)

Spoiler

 

  • Neutral A: 3-hit jab, first with a normal sword, 2nd with a Samurai's katana, and 3rd with a Knight sword.
  • F-Tilt: A jab with a Lancer's Spear w/ good range.
  • D-Tilt: Poke or slice with a White Mage's staff.
  • U-Tilt: Strikes upwards with a Black Mage's rod. Randomly deals fire, ice, or lightning damage purely for aesthetic purposes.
  • Forward Smash: Slam down with an axe.
  • Up Smash: Strike with a Samurai's Draw Out skill.
  • Down Smash: Uses a Monk's Earth Slash skill to slam the ground; shockwaves extend a short distance in front of Ramza.
  • Aerials: Other melee weapons such as a Thief's knife, a Ninja sword or two, or an Oracle's stick/bo staff. Maybe even at random.
  • Neutral B: Throw Stone. Throwing angle is curved.
  • Side B: Ninja Throw. Throw any weapon at random that can be thrown in the original game. Damage depends on what weapon is thrown. Projectiles move perfectly straight.
  • Up B: I have a few ideas for this one. Either Lancer's Jump skill (like a lighter and faster Super Dedede Jump), Time Mage's Teleport (like Mewtwo), or a quick lift from a Black (*CoughPurpleCough*) Chocobo.
  • Down B: Holy, White Mage's strongest spell. Hold B to charge, the target AoE can be moved with left and right. (Think Greninja's Shadow Sneak, but you stay put and cast magic, with startup and ending lag akin to Lucas' Up Smash)
  • Forward Throw: Uses the Holy Sword skill Lightning Stab. (Hey, if Ness can use PK moves and Robin can use Nosferatu, then Ramza can use Holy Sword skills)
  • Down Throw: Does a quick casting of Ice.
  • Back Throw: Throws the opponent back and quickly shoots them with a crossbow. (Like Falco's Back Throw, but with a crossbow)
  • Up Throw: Lancer's Jump skill. Jumps up high, then lands straight down on the opponent. (Like Kirby's Up Throw, except you don't take the opponent up with you)
  • Final Smash: Summon Zodiac/Zodiark. Initial strike is a blast of Ultima in front of him (think Shulk). Ramza summons Zodiac/Zodiark, who uses their pure non-elemental energy to obliterate the field, damaging and launching any opponents that were struck by Ultima.
  • Unique aesthetics:
    • Shield: Ramza's shield is beveled to resemble a casting of Reflect or Shell. He also quickly brings out an Escutcheon shield and guards with it.
    • The last weapon Ramza used remains in his hand, except the Escutcheon. He also guards with it while shielding. He may be a Squire, but I wasn't gonna let him use just a sword.

Phew....at last. I've wanted to list out that moveset for years. Glad I finally got it off my chest. Ramza is a great way to bring Final Fantasy classes into the game all through one character. Instead of a mere swordsman, you get a swiss-army knight, and not of the Link variety. Much better than a Echo Fighter of Cloud, wouldn't you say? That said if he got in at all, even as an Echo, I would still sure be hyped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Interesting the idea could be, if SE were to add a fighter with the Job System gimmick, it wouldn't be Ramza. It'd probably be someone like the Onion Knight, since he's from the game that introduced the Job/Class (Change) System (the original game, while having a Job System, didn't allowed the characters to change it outside of a single time upgrade). Heck, Job Changing is pretty much OK's special ability in the Dissidia games, if I recall correctly.

That said, Ramza could still be not a bad choice. Though again, not with the Job System along with it.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps so, though Onion Knight would also be......faceless, if you catch my drift. Ramza afaik has more of an identity. Ah, but I'm no FF expert. Tactics is the only game in the series I've played. An interesting place to start, I know. And I know both Ramza and Onion Knight are playable in Dissidia NT. But I can't help it, I love FF Tactics. At least the possibilities are there now thanks to Cloud. I bet Ramza would get a similar reaction to Richter, "Huh, who the heck is Ramza? That one girly boy from Dissidia NT!?" At least Marth would finally catch a break from the Dude Looks Like a Lady comments. :P

Edited by Baron the Shining Blade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not really. The Onion Knight from the Dissidia games has a defined character, even if he's more original to Dissidia than his own game (more so since III's remake turned the "faceless" protagonists into actual characters as well, making OK into a separate entity from them). Same could be said for the Warrior of Light with regards to his game, although his game still has faceless protagonists even into the latest remakes, but still...

ANyway, as I said, Ramza himself can still work for a good second FF character. Hoestly, though, I'd want someone not from FF, giving SE's other series a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Terra is my only choice for a second Square rep simply because Final Fantasy VI is my all time favorite RPG I’ve ever played on the SNES.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sora is my number one, but I don't think he's very likely (prove me wrong Sakurai). I'd also love Neku from TWEWY or, slightly better odds, Agnes or Tiz from the Bravely series. However, I think Terra or Noctis are the most probable and I would be happy with either or both.

I personally don't care much for Geno. I know he's popular but I would feel a bit disappointed if they went with him instead of anyone I mentioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/9/2018 at 7:10 AM, Slumber said:

Erdrick. 

Thank you!

Erdrick/Loto is one of the most important protagonists of Dragon Quest. Which is a venerated series in Japan, for good reasons. Honestly, with how much Sakurai tends to prefer the tastes of the japanese gamers it's weird a Dragon Quest rep wasn't already confirmed. I'm sorry for Crono, Bravely, Mana or even Kingdom Hearts fans, but Dragon Quest is the second most important JRPG series, so it doesn't make sense to ignore it in favor of the others. It's not even a "dead" franchise like Crono is, or Megaman was before 11.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Thank you!

Erdrick/Loto is one of the most important protagonists of Dragon Quest. Which is a venerated series in Japan, for good reasons. Honestly, with how much Sakurai tends to prefer the tastes of the japanese gamers it's weird a Dragon Quest rep wasn't already confirmed. I'm sorry for Crono, Bravely, Mana or even Kingdom Hearts fans, but Dragon Quest is the second most important JRPG series, so it doesn't make sense to ignore it in favor of the others. It's not even a "dead" franchise like Crono is, or Megaman was before 11.

Part of the thing that I've noticed about the third party picks is that there is a bit of a pattern with them.

First and foremost, they're ALL major gaming icons that have inspired tons and tons of other developers to make similar games. And beyond that, a good chunk of them have, deep, deep ties to Nintendo. Mega Man, Castlevania, and Street Fighter fit this bill the most. Metal Gear and Final Fantasy are a bit of a stretch, but they have their ties to Nintendo. Sonic has been tied more to Nintendo as of late, even if it started off, obviously, as a big competitor to Nintendo. Pac-Man is the one far out pick that has never been associated with Nintendo that strongly, but it is at least one of the biggest gaming icons of all time.

Crono is the only one of the popular picks from SE games that really fits the mold. Mana is in a similar spot, but I think if the main character of Secret of Mana got announced, 40% of people would think it was Crono, and another 10% would be wondering if the main character of SoM even has a name. The remaining 50% probably wouldn't have any idea at all of who it was, since Chrono is a dead franchise that hasn't had an entry in 20 years. Chrono I see as the most likely after Erdrick(Or I guess Erdwin now. We'll have to see if they decide to change their name for a forth time before Ultimate comes out), since he arguably is a Nintendo icon.

Bravely is part of the JRPG renaissance, but I don't think it has too much name recognition, or obvious choices from the character roster that would make sense. I also feel like it's way too soon for people to have an attachment to the franchise for Nintendo to reach out to get one of those characters.

And Kingdom Hearts... Look I honestly don't think KH even really fits into either. Yes, KH has been on Nintendo shit before, and mainline KH games at that. But I think most people associate KH with Sony. In most peoples' eyes, a "legit" KH game has never even been on Nintendo.

As much as I know this might piss people off... I don't think it's an iconic gaming franchise. I know that sounds weird for a franchise that has sold... what, like, 25 million copies in total? But I tend to only really see hardcore KH fans repping the series, and beyond that... I can't think of a single game that was inspired by Kingdom Hearts. This massive, 15 year old franchise, I honestly don't think has left much of an impact in the gaming world. The closest would have been Final Fantasy 15, but that's largely because it had the same director. And even that's not true anymore, since it changed directors and gameplay styles 8 years into development.

A KH rep is honestly one of the lower Square choices in my mind.

Erdrick/Loto/Erdwin's the one that kind of ticks all the right boxes right now, IMO. Gaming icon, strong ties to Nintendo. It also helps that the newest DQ game also centers around their ancestor and Erdwin's adventures are a major part of the game's story.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Erdwin? I'm pretty sure that's another guy.

Anyway, going for recognition and iconicness for third party characters is sad but true. That's why I don't have much high hopes that any protagonist from the Quintet SNES Trilogy will make it in. Not even as something minor like a regular trophy or even something like a sticker if those were to come back. Well, what can you do about it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Erdwin? I'm pretty sure that's another guy.

Anyway, going for recognition and iconicness for third party characters is sad but true. That's why I don't have much high hopes that any protagonist from the Quintet SNES Trilogy will make it in. Not even as something minor like a regular trophy or even something like a sticker if those were to come back. Well, what can you do about it...

Actually I just remembered the ending of DQXI.

Erdwin is effectively Erdrick.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Erdwin's effectively Erdrick. I don't know if they've said they're from different worlds, but they dress the same, look the same, have nearly identical names, and both bear similar marks.

Spoiler

I'm aware. Reincarnation plays a hand in XI's setting, from what I've seen. Erdwin is most likely a past life of III's Erdrick (and XI's protagonist is also part of the chain in-between them, best I understood the whole thing), but my point is that they'd still be separate characters. Erdwin being named as such doesn't mean Erdrick is now also Erdwin. III's hero will still be named Erdrick, no name change is involved or will be involved.

Okay, saw the edit. My point still stands.

Second Edit. To be fair, it matters little if Erdrick's name were to actually be Erdwin since Erdrick at the end of the day is a title given to him, and now people refer to him as such instead of his real name. XI's protagonist is also given the Erdrick title. Though my point still stands that Erdrick the title would still be Erdrick in name.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:
  Hide contents

I'm aware. Reincarnation plays a hand in XI's setting, from what I've seen. Erdwin is most likely a past life of III's Erdrick (and XI's protagonist is also part of the chain in-between them, best I understood the whole thing), but my point is that they'd still be separate characters. Erdwin being named as such doesn't mean Erdrick is now also Erdwin. III's hero will still be named Erdrick, no name change is involved or will be involved.

 

The whole thing's screwy with how XI deals with time

I suppose there are two ways to look at it. That way, but also

Spoiler

That localization has changed over the years, and the team that decided Erdwick was fine translation isn't the team that did XI, and they altered the name again. I saw the very ending where it's VERY clearly "Erdrick" being woken up on their 16th birthday to start their quest to defeat Baramos as the beginning of "Erdwin"'s story, since the quest to the past is partly a way of also closing their story back then...

... though I guess "Erdrick"'s mother reading legends about the Luminary tosses a wrench in that idea, now that I think about it.

Either way, "Erdrick" is still a presence in DQ, which remains to be a big franchise, 32 years after the fact(Even if they technically don't make a major appearance until 1988).

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with Dragon Quest is that, while it is a popular series, it doesn't have any characters as famous as Cloud or the other third party characters... except maybe Slime, but that's more of an enemy than a "real" character.

I would like to see Dragon Quest be like Monster Hunter in that it gets some representation without having a character, even if Square Enix will probably stingy about it.

And Sora is definitely more associated with Nintendo than Snake and Cloud are, or even Pac-Man.

Edited by Lightchao42
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

The whole thing's screwy with how XI deals with time

I suppose there are two ways to look at it. That way, but also

  Hide contents

That localization has changed over the years, and the team that decided Erdwick was fine translation isn't the team that did XI, and they altered the name again. I saw the very ending where it's VERY clearly "Erdrick" being woken up on their 16th birthday to start their quest to defeat Baramos as the beginning of "Erdwin"'s story, since the quest to the past is partly a way of also closing their story back then...

... though I guess "Erdrick"'s mother reading legends about the Luminary tosses a wrench in that idea, now that I think about it.

Either way, "Erdrick" is still a presence in DQ, which remains to be a big franchise, 32 years after the fact(Even if they technically don't make a major appearance until 1988).

Spoiler

They didn't altered it. Both Erdwin and Erdrick are used in the game. If you didn't saw the edit in my last post, I added that XI's protagonist is also given the Erdrick title. Erdrick, not Erdwin.

The point of that end scene is the implication that XI happens long before III. That III's Erdrick is descendant or reincarnation of XI's protagonist, also titled Erdrick; and by proxy, from Erdwin.

I agree there, if a DQ character is added, might as well be Erdrick.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:
  Hide contents

They didn't altered it. Both Erdwin and Erdrick are used in the game. If you didn't saw the edit in my last post, I added that XI's protagonist is also given the Erdrick title. Erdrick, not Erdwin.

The point of that end scene is the implication that XI happens long before III. That III's Erdrick is descendant or reincarnation of XI's protagonist, also titled Erdrick; and by proxy, from Erdwin.

I agree there, if a DQ character is added, might as well be Erdrick.

That makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

The problem with Dragon Quest is that, while it is a popular series, it doesn't have any characters as famous as Cloud or the other third party characters... except maybe Slime, but that's more of an enemy than a "real" character.

Famous characters don't really matter if they're from a famous franchise. How many people do you think were that aware of Richter or even Simon Belmont? Everybody knows of Castlevania and the Belmonts as a whole, but how many people would be shown a picture of either of those two, and immediately know who they are? I imagine it'd be a small fraction of people even aware of Castlevania. Show a dude holding a whip looking at Dracula's castle, and people will know Castlevania.

And Erdrick isn't famous outside of Japan because of the dodgy localization of Dragon Quest games. We didn't get consistent translations of the franchise until the 7th game in the series. Which is a big problem when your most recognizable character is the focus of the first 3 games in the franchise.

Erdrick is a huge deal in Japan, though. So much so that the most recent game in the series, which the developers want to be a huge deal globally is

Spoiler

now a backstory of how Erdrick got to be so cool. Dragon Quest XI ends with the opening of Dragon Quest III, far and away the most famous DQ game in Japan, and the game where "Erdrick" was finally playable.

 

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

And Sora is definitely more associated with Nintendo than Snake and Cloud are, or even Pac-Man.

Two major points:

  1. Sora being associated with Nintendo all that strongly is pretty dodgy, as he either isn't the main character(358/2) in any of the games on the Nintendo systems, or he's sharing the spotlight with Riku(CoM and DDD). Yes, he's there, but he's not the sole hero(Or the hero at all) in those games.
  2. I go back to this point, but how many people even consider the non-numbered games to be significant entries in the series? How many people have been frothing at the mouth for Kingdom Hearts 3 for over 10 years because they don't consider any of the handheld games as "legit" KH games? I'd wager it's a lot.

Cloud's a weird one, because outside of crossover side games, Cloud's never been on a Nintendo console. Final Fantasy as a whole, however, basically cannot be separated from Nintendo. The series likely would not exist without Nintendo, and Cloud was chosen as the series' rep. Snake, on the other hand, has been the main character of 2 games on Nintendo systems(Metal Gear, and the remake of Metal Gear Solid). And while none of those are strictly Nintendo originals, what with MG1 being an MSX game originally and Twin Snakes being... well, a remake, they were pretty high-profile Nintendo games when they came out.

Pac-Man I acknowledge as being the biggest oddity. Pac Man is associated with Atari and arcades moreso than any consoles still around to these days.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's worth considering that Cloud's fame was a key factor for picking him as a DLC character, sold standalone and providing extra advertising well after launch. I'm not entirely sure that would be as critical for deciding a launch character, but I would agree that it certainly helps quite a bit.

17 hours ago, Slumber said:

Pac-Man I acknowledge as being the biggest oddity. Pac Man is associated with Atari and arcades moreso than any consoles still around to these days.

Does he seem an odd choice to you? It made sense once we learned Namco was developing Smash 4 that they'd get to put someone in, and there's certainly no character as recognizable among those they own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Johann said:

Does he seem an odd choice to you? It made sense once we learned Namco was developing Smash 4 that they'd get to put someone in, and there's certainly no character as recognizable among those they own.

This is true. He still kind of sticks out as a pre-NES gaming icon that's never had any real connection to Nintendo beyond maybe some Gameboy ports, but I supposed Namco owning him and being involved with the development of Smash makes the decision make more sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Johann said:

I think it's worth considering that Cloud's fame was a key factor for picking him as a DLC character, sold standalone and providing extra advertising well after launch. I'm not entirely sure that would be as critical for deciding a launch character, but I would agree that it certainly helps quite a bit.

Does he seem an odd choice to you? It made sense once we learned Namco was developing Smash 4 that they'd get to put someone in, and there's certainly no character as recognizable among those they own.

Pac-Man isn't too much of an oddity, and I think he would've been included (or at least considered) even if Bandai Namco wasn't making it just because of how much of an icon he is (though the Namco association might've had something to do with his inclusion). Pac-Man has crossed over with Mario on occasion, and Miyamoto even requested that Sakurai include him in Brawl because Pac-Man is his favorite video game character (Sakurai only thought of Pac-Man's original 2D sprite so he didn't think much of the request at the time).

Edited by Lightchao42
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can’t say I have any real interest in any other SE characters being in Smash, even though I like a lot of them including Geno. Maybe because my expectations for any particular SNES/PS1-era classic or extra Final Fantasy character to get lovin’ are nonexistent.

Also I really need to find a copy of Xenogears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to see Sora in Smash. He's my third most wanted newcomer, behind Bandana Dee and Isaac.

As for a potential Echo fighter...Zack Fair as a Cloud Echo would be fantastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...