Surtr is my favorite Heroes OC, fight me

[Jotari]

A lot of people seem to dislike Surtr as a villain in Heroes. Citing the fact that he has no motivation, is gamebreakingly powerful, a complete lack of nuance and us just generally a dick to absolutely everything. To those criticisms I say...fair assessments. It's completely true. But I still like him better than anything else Heroes has provided in the original character department. Mainly because I think his complete lack of depth suits the story of Heroes, which I view as completely lacking in depth. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's reaction upon seeing another story is "Yay, a chance to get like twenty orbs," more so than "I can't wait to see what happens next." I know who all the characters in the story are and what's happening, but it just doesn't really interest me. Surtr, however, I just find fun to watch. He's just so completely over the top that I can't help but find him entertaining. Even down to his comically large design and shit eating grin he has as he gleefully tells everyone, ally and enemy alike, that he's going to burn them alive. He's a bully; brutal intimidating and to the point. If he was in any other story than I probably wouldn't care for him at all, but I find pretty much the entirety of the cast boring and among them, he shines brightest for being true to who he is.

Anyway, tell me your thoughts on Surtr or feel free to tell me how wrong I am and how amazing Loki's chest character really is or something.

[Vaximillian]

Surtr is a force of nature which cannot be reasoned with. Surtr is boring and outstayed his welcome. The end.

[Etrurian emperor]

Surtr has more in common with Garon than he does with most other FE villains but I don't think that needs to be a problem. Surtr is the exact type of obviously evil tyrant as Garon is but he also doesn't make the same mistakes as Garon. No one in the game tries to tell us that Surtr is a great guy and the game doesn't try to depict Muspleheim as a valid kingdom despite its ruler being irredeemable evil. Instead Muspleheim is just an enemy kingdom and Surtr isn't expected to be viewed as anything other than irredeemable evil, and I think that saves him. 

Garon was so terrible because he was exactly what the story needed him NOT to be but Surtr is what the game needs him to be, just an incredibly evil but simpleminded villain that's easily manipulated by the Gharnef of the game. Surtr is free to be as obviously evil as he likes without damaging himself or the rest of the story because of it. Unlike Garon he even seems to take some joy in being evil which helps give him more presence on screen. The part where he gleefully describes to Alfonse how burning someone to death works was actually pretty great. 

However, Surtr did overstay his welcome. There is no real reason why he became a phoenix mode scrub and survived his last encounter with the Heroes. Fjorm getting a power up and defeating Surtr because Loki told team Askr how to get past the castle's defenses would have been a fitting end for Surtr. That he randomly survives to live for some more chapters just seems like padding to me. 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[SavageVolug]

Having not played Heroes yet, I don't have much of an opinion either way. HOWEVER can I just say that Surtr has one Badass, Asswhoopin' Kickass design? I mean the man has an AWESOME design. He looks powerful, and unafraid of EVERYTHING that moves and breathes. He has this immovable, unstoppable larger than life look to him and I love it. So design wise, I like Surtr a lot. As a character I can't really say as I have yet to play Heroes, I probably will someday just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[RexBolt]

11 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Surtr has more in common with Garon than he does with most other FE villains but I don't think that needs to be a problem. Surtr is the exact type of obviously evil tyrant as Garon is but he also doesn't make the same mistakes as Garon. No one in the game tries to tell us that Surtr is a great guy and the game doesn't try to depict Muspleheim as a valid kingdom despite its ruler being irredeemable evil. Instead Muspleheim is just an enemy kingdom and Surtr isn't expected to be viewed as anything other than irredeemable evil, and I think that saves him. 

Garon was so terrible because he was exactly what the story needed him NOT to be but Surtr is what the game needs him to be, just an incredibly evil but simpleminded villain that's easily manipulated by the Gharnef of the game. Surtr is free to be as obviously evil as he likes without damaging himself or the rest of the story because of it. Unlike Garon he even seems to take some joy in being evil which helps give him more presence on screen. The part where he gleefully describes to Alfonse how burning someone to death works was actually pretty great. 

However, Surtr did overstay his welcome. There is no real reason why he became a phoenix mode scrub and survived his last encounter with the Heroes. Fjorm getting a power up and defeating Surtr because Loki told team Askr how to get past the castle's defenses would have been a fitting end for Surtr. That he randomly survives to live for some more chapters just seems like padding to me. 

 

Yeah, i think he is staying just because IS don't want to finish him before Book 2 is over, while other OC's like Loki may stay for Book 3, Surtr is closed to this one. I just hope they keep working with the OC's they already have instead of creating more and more for each book.

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Surtr has more in common with Garon than he does with most other FE villains but I don't think that needs to be a problem. Surtr is the exact type of obviously evil tyrant as Garon is but he also doesn't make the same mistakes as Garon. No one in the game tries to tell us that Surtr is a great guy and the game doesn't try to depict Muspleheim as a valid kingdom despite its ruler being irredeemable evil. Instead Muspleheim is just an enemy kingdom and Surtr isn't expected to be viewed as anything other than irredeemable evil, and I think that saves him. 

Garon was so terrible because he was exactly what the story needed him NOT to be but Surtr is what the game needs him to be, just an incredibly evil but simpleminded villain that's easily manipulated by the Gharnef of the game. Surtr is free to be as obviously evil as he likes without damaging himself or the rest of the story because of it. Unlike Garon he even seems to take some joy in being evil which helps give him more presence on screen. The part where he gleefully describes to Alfonse how burning someone to death works was actually pretty great. 

However, Surtr did overstay his welcome. There is no real reason why he became a phoenix mode scrub and survived his last encounter with the Heroes. Fjorm getting a power up and defeating Surtr because Loki told team Askr how to get past the castle's defenses would have been a fitting end for Surtr. That he randomly survives to live for some more chapters just seems like padding to me. 

 

I won't deny that it has dragged considerably, but that might (and I stress might) be more down to the release schedule than the writing. I feel as if all these events were laid out without a month to wait between each chapter his survival wouldn't have made him feel quite as overstayed as he is.

[Tenzen12]

Sutr is alright guy. He is destruction and doom incarnate and definitely villain against whom heroes need to struggle against. If he got killed so simply then he would be meaningless character. 

I don't like him and will not mourn when he finally dies, but I feel he is obstacle worthy overcoming. 

... Plus he has cute daughter. 

[Kurrin]

I'm not sure "par for the story's course" could be considered much of a compliment.

Though, if there's one thing I can give him is that he is intimidating (in-story, at least) and he actually gets work done.

[SoulWeaver]

My opinions have been known to change when Heroes gets involved, and Surtr's one of those. Originally he(and Book 2 as a whole) just made me mad because the whole fire vs ice thing has been used quite a bit before(even frickin' LEGO Chima used that as basis for a storyline), but since then I've found myself wanting to see when we get to off him - I'm actually looking forward to this bossfight, which is something that Veronica and Xander utterly failed to accomplish for me in Book 1(if only because I'm still certain we're going to get Veronica as a playable in addition to Brave Veronica). Plus he's GANONDORF ON FIRE HOW COULD YOU NOT LIKE THAT?!?!

[XRay]

I am way past disliking Surtr. I hate Surtr. No one touches my waifus and gets away with it, and he fucking burned Gunnthrá alive. He will taste the Thunder's Fist up his ass, and receive quad swipes of the Meisterschwert down his front. Múspellflame will not save him as it will be a curse that binds him to despair and ruin. He will beg for the death's mercy, but all he will receive is a taste of "Magic is everything!" getting rammed down his throat with every breath he takes.

In a literary sense, I think he is pretty decent as a villain. He is kind of shallow without a lot of depth, but if he is able to draw out hatred out of me, I think that is pretty good.

[EricaofRenais]

5 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Surtr is a force of nature which cannot be reasoned with. Surtr is boring and outstayed his welcome. The end.

This sums up what I think of him, I feel like they are dragging this out to 13 chapters just like book 1 so hopefully this arch will be over soon.  He is an OK villain and he does what someone who is "evil" does best which make the player want to kick his ass and stop him.

[Humanoid]

I have a really low opinion of any enemy with plot armour, and FEH really takes the mickey with it. It's almost Bethesda-level bad. I suppose there's at least a veneer of justification behind it, unlike Embla's Ward. And every bloody NPC in Skyrim.

I don't think the FE series in the past has been particularly bad at this - most bosses are once and done - but SoV took it to the next level with how many times you had to beat the same enemy over and over. Just chop their heads off, for goodness sake.

[Junkhead]

He wants to kill two girls.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I got nothing for or against Surtr, but I will say I think it's unfortunate he's going to be betrayed and subdued by Loki of all people. 

[NobodiePichu]

surtur is... interesting. I enjoy that they arent trying any nuance with him in terms of motivation, going firelord ozai route really in which hes more a force of nature the protagonists have to confront if they want to prevent everything from being irreversibly fucked. It also helps that, well hes obviously pulling a lot form garons playbook in terms of visual looks and behavior, he isnt a complete idiot and manages to catch the protagonists off guard on multiple occasions, though how he does so at times can be questionable.

However, he would have been far more effective if he had been felt more then seen, he steals the spotlight from veronica making her feel more and more irrelevant and turning her into a fucking damsel in distress (atleast for now),  he doesn't actually feel particularly threatening, and at the end of the day hes just a lazy garon rip off which is impressive in its own right mind considering how lazy garon as a character was to begin with.

it also doesnt help that i could not give a shit about the protagonists survival at all, especially since of the nifil siblings two of them are the 2.0 now with less personality versions of the askr siblings (which is impressive in alfonses case let me tell you), ones another fucking emmeryn rip off now in big sister flavor (i am getting fucking tired of emmeryn at this point) and the last one is the little sister. not helped by the villains supporting cast, with the muspell siblings being kinda boring, loki being miss i obviously have my own agenda and i am really bad at using my special powers, and the bruiser overstaying his welcome by a fucking mile despite being the most sympathetic of all of them.

[bottlegnomes]

@Etrurian emperor Covered my thoughts pretty well. In general I'm so tired of the whole he's not sympathetic so he sucks line of reasoning. Plenty of people are power hungry bullies who do what they do just because they want to and can get away with it. Surtr isn't the greatest portrayal of it, but he's at least decently executed and a hell of a lot less love me because I'm pretty than the rest of the cast. I mean really, he's no worse than Sauron, and I can't say I recall Sauron getting the level of vitriol that Surtr does.

[thecrimsonflash]

honestly, I'm getting tired of loki's crap at this point, this constant betrayal with no clear motive is getting old, I can at least appreciate that surtur is to the point about it (I guess 8 dimentional 1080 degree upside down reverse backgammon pong in space is too hard for me to grasp) besides, anyone that burns gunnthra alive is A-OK in my book, that'll teach you to pity break me, shoot, I have a friend who has gotten pity broken twice by gunnthra as well so I am not the only one, gunnthra may be a hero in game, but surtur will always be a hero in my heart.

[omegaxis1]

I hate Surtur at this point because like others say, he has long since overstayed his welcome. It's just pointless that we fight him after getting a powerup that is clearly killed Fjorm, but Surtur ends up coming back up and pulling this BS where now the Rite of Flames needs to be stopped, or he will never stop coming back. Not to mention, he keeps claiming that we are weak, but he doesn't even fight us with his own strength. He relies entirely on his hax mode, and then has the nerve to call us weak?

However, unlike villains like Garon, Surtur actually does something. He's remained as a serious threat and has actively fought the heroes repeatedly and felt like a threat simply because we can't beat him. 

Quote

Takumi: Well, he broke Xander's arm, so you know, that was fun.

And there's this sadistic pleasure he gets. The way he goes into detail about how horrible it is to be burned to death to Alfonse, or how he looks so gleeful at the thought of killing Veronica. We don't need anything good being told about him. Let him be evil the entire way, and let the players have the sweet, sweet, SWEET satisfaction of killing him and making him experience the ultimate humiliation.

[Jhedin]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Mainly because I think his complete lack of depth suits the story of Heroes, which I view as completely lacking in depth.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha this is perfection.

[SoulWeaver]

3 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

honestly, I'm getting tired of loki's crap at this point, this constant betrayal with no clear motive is getting old, I can at least appreciate that surtr is to the point about it (I guess 8 dimentional 1080 degree upside down reverse backgammon pong in space is too hard for me to grasp) besides, anyone that burns gunnthra alive is A-OK in my book, that'll teach you to pity break me, shoot, I have a friend who has gotten pity broken twice by gunnthra as well so I am not the only one, gunnthra may be a hero in game, but surtur will always be a hero in my heart.

I don't know about you, but it looks like Loki's got a pretty solid hard-on for the Summoner to me, that seems like a potential motive considering Surtr will definitely burn the Summoner to ash if he wins. There's also the fact that this is actually a pretty accurate portrayal of Loki looking at Norse Mythology - a Trickster who fights for his(or her, I guess, FEH) own agenda and is willing to side with - or backstab - just about anyone for no more reason than to keep life interesting.
The one thing that still bothers me about Surtr, though, is that motive issue - I can't remember if there's a given reason he's trying to burn the world down, and bad guys who are just bad for the sake of it bugs me.

Also how could you not enjoy 8-Dimensional-1080-Degree-Upside-Down-Reverse-Backgammon-Pong-In-Space? Clearly you need to spend more time with @Rex Glacies, that's one of the games he really excels at.

[bottlegnomes]

37 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

The one thing that still bothers me about Surtr, though, is that motive issue - I can't remember if there's a given reason he's trying to burn the world down, and bad guys who are just bad for the sake of it bugs me.

I don't think he's trying to burn everything so much as everything he doesn't rule. Basically, he's a sadistic conqueror who takes joy in destroying those who oppose him.

[XRay]

5 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

honestly, I'm getting tired of loki's crap at this point, this constant betrayal with no clear motive is getting old, I can at least appreciate that surtur is to the point about it (I guess 8 dimentional 1080 degree upside down reverse backgammon pong in space is too hard for me to grasp) besides, anyone that burns gunnthra alive is A-OK in my book, that'll teach you to pity break me, shoot, I have a friend who has gotten pity broken twice by gunnthra as well so I am not the only one, gunnthra may be a hero in game, but surtur will always be a hero in my heart.

*GASP* How dare you!? Looks like you want to pick a fight. Gunnthrá did nothing wrong!

Edited September 9, 2018 by XRay

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

honestly, I'm getting tired of loki's crap at this point, this constant betrayal with no clear motive is getting old, I can at least appreciate that surtur is to the point about it (I guess 8 dimentional 1080 degree upside down reverse backgammon pong in space is too hard for me to grasp) besides, anyone that burns gunnthra alive is A-OK in my book, that'll teach you to pity break me, shoot, I have a friend who has gotten pity broken twice by gunnthra as well so I am not the only one, gunnthra may be a hero in game, but surtur will always be a hero in my heart.

Well at least Loki's finally doing something with her most resent betrayal. My biggest complaint about her is that she gets tonnes of screen time but does fuck all with it. She accomplished more being pointlessly disguised as Anna than her chestymagee true self (if that's even her true self) and even when she was Anna she essentially hung around being mysterious more than doing anything of note.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

(if that's even her true self)

That better not be it. If Loki is a really big evil and powerful baddie, or works for a really big evil and powerful baddie, I'd expect more for a true form, would be very disappointing if that was it. At the least, I'd go for zombie-like eyes (I'd pick red), flesh of either a pale undead or dark brown color, fangs, and mutant demonic butterfly wings. I'd bet against an angelic True Loki on the whole, in favor of something grotesque.

One general question to ask I think, is whether True Loki does away with the sexual emphasis completely, or exaggerates it further? 

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That better not be it. If Loki is a really big evil and powerful baddie, or works for a really big evil and powerful baddie, I'd expect more for a true form, would be very disappointing if that was it. At the least, I'd go for zombie-like eyes (I'd pick red), flesh of either a pale undead or dark brown color, fangs, and mutant demonic butterfly wings. I'd bet against an angelic True Loki on the whole, in favor of something grotesque.

One general question to ask I think, is whether True Loki does away with the sexual emphasis completely, or exaggerates it further? 

You know, it'd probably destroy his character, but I still think I'd love it if Loki turned out to be Loptyr.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Jotari