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New Heroes Appear: Nohrian Dusk (September 14th ~)


Coolmanio
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Garon got a strange grin ...

On the Nohrian Dusk units, I like the art of all of them. Ophelia looks the most interesting, I hope she gets some fun lines.

But I don't need any of them, I'll keep my orbs together for the next Legendary banner. As hard as it may be. 

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Stats are out.

Ophelia - Man, look at her attack. Although her other stats are not amazing, Missiletainn (urgh that name), Rally Up Atk+ and Chill Res are excellent support. I am defineately seeing her in mage teams who can run her in the back. Her defense is bad, and her Speed could be just a bit higher if you know what I mean. Go for Spd+.

Nina - She's... meh to say the least. Her speed is nice, resistance is good, but to deal a good chunk of damage, she relies on her weapons special effect. If Light Brand is good, she's ok.

Silas -  Ok, so he's not the fastest Cavalry unit, but he is strong and bulky. Silas can make Slaying Spear great again. With all the bonuses he's got 48 DEF IN BASE KIT. That's insane. Seems like a good counter-measure against armored units, they are usually slow melee units.

Flora - talk about anti-armor, Flora is what we expected. High Atk and High Res, which goes well with her skillset. Now that proves she needs that +20 defense against DC units. Honestly, she's interesting, but dies to anything that gets to her, except mages.

With that in mind, I decided to take a blue free pull, and:

Ophelia > Silas > Flora > Nina - this was a no-brainer, but it's also based on personal opinion. Flora could get a higher score, but she's only good in one thing.

Edited by Garlyle
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Spoiler

Wow Ophelia has a superboon in Atk

Silas fills a tankly lance cav niche in the normal pool, so that’s great to see

wow Flora is slow but i guess that’s why she has QR

sadly Nina is a bit eh. That speed is nice though

 

Edited by mcsilas
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So, now that I've seen the stats:

Spoiler

Silas: This is a man who knows exactly what he wants to be, and he wants to be strong and tough. No need for speed here, not when you get your degree from Arden University Of Being Strong And Tough. His RES sucks, but I expected that. Dude's Blue Hinata On A Horse with a bit less HP because horse BST. I want a second Sumia now so that when he demotes and I pull him I can immediately give him Reprisal Lance+ with a DEF-Refine and he can be Better Shiro On A Horse.

Ophelia: Damn. She definitely didn't inherit her dad's terrible ATK. Everything else lines up though, alright SPD, balanced defenses (which are low), and her HP took a hit, presumably to fuel that ATK stat. I want, but will wait for Legendary banner appearance.

Nina: I wasn't expecting her to have a decent ATK stat. Everything else is about what I thought it would be though, and 37 SPD is pretty neat. I wouldn't mind pulling her, if only because I'm certain Silas will be the only demote this banner.

Flora: That SPD is oof, but that ATK is far above my expectations, and everything else is roughly what I expected. I desire.

Gonna be pulling Red >= Colorless > Blue > Green here, slightly different from before since Nina's better than I expected her to be. Not sure how much I'll put into this banner though...

Spoiler

I want Flora/Nina, but given what's in the datamine I'm pretty sure Muspell trio are coming next week, so I wanna have Orbs for that too...

 

Edited by ILikeKirbys
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I called it! I said Silas would probably be blue Freddy and he is! His stats are near identical to best Awakening husband. <3 I'm gonna give him the same set I gave Frederick! And he already comes with a piece of it in Steady Stance too. ^^

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1 hour ago, Garlyle said:

Ophelia > Silas > Flora > Nina - this was a no-brainer, but it's also based on personal opinion. Flora could get a higher score, but she's only good in one thing.

If they ever give us some other options than Dull Ranged to neuter -blades I can see Flora having a niche as a EP mage killer and a PP melee killer, covering two different team types at once. Main problem is that, right now, 38 + 38 = 76 magical bulk isn't actually a high bar to clear for OHKO -blade users, and 114 over two hits is pretty trivial. I'd like her a lot more if she was colorless, honestly---the most common mage horse is still probably Reinhardt, which makes her color really awkward.

Wish Solo had +7 for 2 stats instead, so that it's clearly superior to Bond + Ally Support---although she does play nice with Bow!Lucina with a Res Link skill and Lucina's natural distant guard. Main problem is that Lucina herself doesn't really care to get +6 res, ever.

 

Personally I'm going to pull for Flora first and foremost---Ophelia is in a damn stacked color, what with Rein, Bow!Lucina, Tome!Lyn (Lyn's spread isn't ideal, but you can afford to have bad spreads if you have so much extra BST to play around with), and half a billion good lancers. In terms of absolute power-level Ophelia is stronger, but she also has tougher competition.

Edit: Flora's biggest problem is that W!Tharja basically does everything she does, better, by naturally having huge physical bulk, and getting access to armor B-slots. But then, I haven't lucked into W!Tharja yet, so...

Edited by DehNutCase
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@DehNutCase Yeah, we do have great ranged blue units, but Ophelia is still interesting because of her set. I'm trying to think what she could pull of with Lilina and Lewyn under the magical rainbow with special prepping and attack boosting. Sounds disgusting enough to give it a try. Also Silas is a good alternative pull.

Flora is not that great. If she can double, good for her. But in enemy phase she dies to anything with 56 physical bulk. Even adaptive breaths pulverize her. And Hoarfrost doesn't prevent her getting doubled. Quick Riposte helps her little, because she's a ranged unit. Either she kills her DC target in one turn, or she dies to anything but mages in enemy phase.

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@DehNutCase

None of Fury, Swift Sparrow, or Life and Death are made obsolete by each other.

For player-phase units, what determines which of the three is optimal is how much bulk the unit has. Going from Fury to Swift Sparrow to Life and Death increases the unit's offensive  power while decreasing their bulk. That much is obvious.

However, there comes to be a point where the unit has enough bulk where they're already capable of tanking a single hit in enough relevant match-ups that the 3 or 5 increase in bulk is simply no longer useful and becomes outweighed by the loss of 1 Atk and Spd. Units with extremely low bulk prefer Fury and units with high bulk prefer Life and Death. However, some units land in the sweet spot of bulk where the bulk gained by Fury does not offset the loss of offensive stats and the offensive stats gained by Life and Death do not offset the loss of bulk, thus making Swift Sparrow the optimal choice in those cases.

The 5 bulk difference between Life and Death and Swift Sparrow and the 3 bulk difference between Fury and Swift Sparrow are not comparable to each other directly due to the fact that the value of a single point of bulk is different depending on how much bulk the unit already has. A single point of bulk for a unit only expecting to take one counterattack makes a bigger difference (in both directions) when your current bulk is about 55, but makes a smaller difference when your current bulk is about 45 or 65.

 

In mathematical terms, if you graph Fury to Life and Death on the x-axis and combat performance on the y-axis, the graph is typically concave down (mountain-shaped instead of linear or valley-shaped). If the peak of the curve lands beyond the Fury side of the graph, then Fury is the optimal choice. If the peak of the curve lands beyond the Life and Death side of the graph, then Life and Death is the optimal choice. If the peak lands between the two and far enough from both Fury and Life and Death, Swift Sparrow becomes the optimal choice.

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16 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

 

Flora is not that great. If she can double, good for her. But in enemy phase she dies to anything with 56 physical bulk. Even adaptive breaths pulverize her. And Hoarfrost doesn't prevent her getting doubled. Quick Riposte helps her little, because she's a ranged unit. Either she kills her DC target in one turn, or she dies to anything but mages in enemy phase.

Huh? Flora shouldn’t be taking hits in the enemy phase in the first place, and her weapon is effective only in the PP, so why does that matter? It’s like saying Micaiah is bad because she can’t take physical hits in EP. No shit, units like that are not supposed to take them in the first place!

Edited by SilvertheShadow
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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I called it! I said Silas would probably be blue Freddy and he is! His stats are near identical to best Awakening husband. <3 I'm gonna give him the same set I gave Frederick! And he already comes with a piece of it in Steady Stance too. ^^

Consider giving him a resistance refined Berkut's Lance if he's +Res, -Spd and if you want a lance cavalry who can wall physical and magical damage. +Res, -Spd Silas is essentially +Def, -HP Berkut, but with easier access to merges. I already posted a comment about it in the general discussion if you or anyone's interested about a +Res, -Spd Silas.

 

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7 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Huh? Flora shouldn’t be taking hits in the enemy phase in the first place, and her weapon is effective only in the PP, so why does that matter? It’s like saying Micaiah is bad because she can’t take physical hits in EP. No shit, units like that are not supposed to take them in the first place!

If you have a build idea which you think Flora is great with, and she's more than just a one-trick pony, then feel free to surprise me.

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35 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Huh? Flora shouldn’t be taking hits in the enemy phase in the first place, and her weapon is effective only in the PP, so why does that matter? It’s like saying Micaiah is bad because she can’t take physical hits in EP. No shit, units like that are not supposed to take them in the first place!

Flora's Player Phase performance is not great because it is highly niche. Lilina does it better since she can kill things in one hit. Celica has enough bulk to stomach most enemies, and her offensive power is far greater and more reliable. Niche builds are not as good in Arena as generalists are because they do not have enough coverage against most types of enemies.

So that leaves her Enemy Phase performance, and it is not anything spectacular. Sophia is available at lower rarities for better access to merges, and she has access to Rauðrraven and Rauðrowl so she can do Enemy Phase combat far better.

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3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Flora's Player Phase performance is not great because it is highly niche. Lilina does it better since she can kill things in one hit. Celica has enough bulk to stomach most enemies, and her offensive power is far greater and more reliable. Niche builds are not as good in Arena as generalists are because they do not have enough coverage against most types of enemies.

So that leaves her Enemy Phase performance, and it is not anything spectacular. Sophia is available at lower rarities for better access to merges, and she has access to Rauðrraven and Rauðrowl so she can do Enemy Phase combat far better.

Flora has 76 bulk when initiating combat against melee-range and non-physical ranged units and 48 Atk before accounting for non-weapon skills. Hoarfrost Dagger gives her a free follow-up against melee-range units and gives her access to Moonbow on every round of combat (with Desperation) or Luna on every round of combat (without Desperation).

Ideally, she'd be running Death Blow 4 because she doesn't need Spd, Def, or Res to function, and a +Atk nature for 59 Atk on initiation (not counting a Sacred Seal), which is plenty respectable.

Having the highest Res in the game also means she can hit almost anything with Atk Ploy for more bulk or Def Ploy for more damage output.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Flora has 76 bulk when initiating combat against melee-range and non-physical ranged units and 48 Atk before accounting for non-weapon skills. Hoarfrost Dagger gives her a free follow-up against melee-range units and gives her access to Moonbow on every round of combat (with Desperation) or Luna on every round of combat (without Desperation).

Ideally, she'd be running Death Blow 4 because she doesn't need Spd, Def, or Res to function, and a +Atk nature for 59 Atk on initiation (not counting a Sacred Seal), which is plenty respectable.

Having the highest Res in the game also means she can hit almost anything with Atk Ploy for more bulk or Def Ploy for more damage output.

Being good against melee enemies is not as good as being able to one shot most things into oblivion. Lilina has coverage and is reliable. Celica's bulk is not as high, but it is high enough to stomach most hits; she can also naturally double against most units, and once she hits Desperation range, she hits even harder and faster with Brazen Atk/Spd on Ragnarok. Flora's usefulness depends on the enemies she is facing, whereas Lilina and Celica works against wide range of enemies.

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47 minutes ago, XRay said:

Being good against melee enemies is not as good as being able to one shot most things into oblivion. Lilina has coverage and is reliable. Celica's bulk is not as high, but it is high enough to stomach most hits; she can also naturally double against most units, and once she hits Desperation range, she hits even harder and faster with Brazen Atk/Spd on Ragnarok. Flora's usefulness depends on the enemies she is facing, whereas Lilina and Celica works against wide range of enemies.

+5 Flora [+Atk, -Spd] (Hoarfrost Knife, Iceberg, Death Blow 4, Swordbreaker 3, Def Ploy 3, Atk Ploy 3) +6/0/6/0

has 34 wins, 1 loss, and 1 draw when tested under the current Gamepedia tiering conditions. Her one loss is against physically bulky Awakening Tiki and her one draw is against Steady Breath Brave Ike (because he cannot counterattack).

Guard 3 instead of Swordbreaker 3 converts the loss against Awakening Tiki into a draw, but costs her wins against 5 sword builds that don't have Distant Counter.

 

Her performance under tiering conditions are nearly flawless on player phase, although she doesn't have much sustain with this build if she ever needs to fight a red unit.

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

+5 Flora [+Atk, -Spd] (Hoarfrost Knife, Iceberg, Death Blow 4, Swordbreaker 3, Def Ploy 3, Atk Ploy 3) +6/0/6/0

has 34 wins, 1 loss, and 1 draw when tested under the current Gamepedia tiering conditions. Her one loss is against physically bulky Awakening Tiki and her one draw is against Steady Breath Brave Ike (because he cannot counterattack).

Guard 3 instead of Swordbreaker 3 converts the loss against Awakening Tiki into a draw, but costs her wins against 5 sword builds that don't have Distant Counter.

 

Her performance under tiering conditions are nearly flawless on player phase, although she doesn't have much sustain with this build if she ever needs to fight a red unit.

Swordbreaker, huh. Axebreaker and guard are also on the table, but it seems swordbreaker might be the best choice.

Edited by silveraura25
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6 hours ago, Kaden said:

Consider giving him a resistance refined Berkut's Lance if he's +Res, -Spd and if you want a lance cavalry who can wall physical and magical damage. +Res, -Spd Silas is essentially +Def, -HP Berkut, but with easier access to merges. I already posted a comment about it in the general discussion if you or anyone's interested about a +Res, -Spd Silas.

 

No way, if I don't get +Def Silas (that isn't -Atk or -HP) right off, I'll just wait until I do. Provided that he does demote. But since I heard Quan did, that may not actually happen since two lance cavs demoting in a row would be weird.

It's why I've decided to really pull for him after all despite god damn Ophelia ALREADY FUCKING WITH ME. Guess who my free pull was? Yeah. She's lucky I didn't have a pity rate yet! >_>

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Wow. I want Silas to appear when I'm summoning for other heroes. He's got great mixed bulk at +res with res refined Berkut's Lance. He's a lot like Berkut. Put him on a defense tile and a lot of unit's are gonna have a hard time with him. He's so mobile as well

Damn. I have to check calculations. This is pretty good shit.

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@Ice Dragon My main issue with SS is that all it takes is pretty much take a tiny niche that L&D and Fury was already filling---it gives marginally more offenses in the case where you don't need Fury 3's bulk, and marginally more bulk in the case you don't need L&D's damage. It's not that its niche doesn't exist so much as between the two alternatives its niche is kind of tiny, and the differences sufficiently small that there's not much reason to run it. (On the other hand, if SS was the 3* option while L&D and Fury were the 5* only skills you bet I'd slap it almost everywhere---yeah, I lose a bunch of enemy phase combat, but that's the price I pay for being cheap.)

 

L&D also scales better with support---it's a lot easier to get, say, 6 more points in def/res than 1 or 2 more points in Atk/Spd after you've already obtained Hone Type. Ally Support is also +2 all stats, meaning a little bit more bulk when you can afford the positioning costs. (I suppose you can just stack Goad Type on top of the Hone Type, but I feel like pure emblem teams is a lot more limiting in terms of team building than Tactics Teams.)

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49 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But since I heard Quan did, that may not actually happen since two lance cavs demoting in a row would be weird.

Where'd you hear that? Genuinely curious since the banner still has about a week.

Anyway for the banner in general. Yeah, Silas is looking very solid. As others have said, he'll be a great dedicated physical tank or mixed tank with BL+. 45 HP, 36 def, and 35 res is no joke. Give him QR and some def boosting skills, say DD, CD, Bracing Stance, etc. and he'll be a pain to kill plus have mobility. Heck, he can even make decent use out of DC if you have the fodder. Repo fodder is always great; now we just need colorless. I like his art a lot, but not overly fond of the voice. It sounds too young. Overall, won't pull for him, but I certainly wouldn't complain if he showed up.

Ophelia is a beast. Every turn DA or Luna with 55 attack with a boon. Slap on DB4 and QP and she'll be nuke-happy with no wind-up time. But still, Rein exists so not super in need.

Flora looks solid and seems like she might as well dump speed since she doesn't need it. She doesn't seem as wowing as some past banner highlights, but definitely solid. Went with red for my pull because why not, but got a Draug instead.

Nina looks fine enough I guess. She can be a fairly solid PP bow with 35/37 or 32/40 and rely on shining bow, but she's not really shaking up the bow rankings and I doubt that will unseat BB and FS Bow.

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