[Datamine] New GHB: Garon, King of Nohr

[Rezzy]

Am I the only one excited about getting Daddy Garon finally?  His absence was a bit odd for so long.

[Lewyn]

2 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

There's not as much of a gap as you're making out though. Yeah, they're worse than the star, but they're generally on par with the drop and even sometimes less impressive 5*, which is perfectly reasonable. If Julius was on the banner, what are the chances he would've been popular enough to even get the star treatment? We saw how well Quan, Sumia, Libra, Shigure, Legault, etc. fared and I'm pretty sure they were all similarly if not more popular.

 

 

Being a final boss would be enough to get star treatment.  Hardin isn't even a final boss but the main villain, nor was he necessarily super popular (though I love him personally), yet he got the royal treatment.  I suspect that Medeus would too if he is on a banner.  These super boss units aren't comparable to side characters like you mentioned.  

 

[Sunwoo]

3 hours ago, Drakhis said:

Me ? I wanted an armored version of him, although I would prefer a younger version of him (sword cavalry nice Garon) but I don't think it will happen.

Other than that I REALLY do not understand that people fodder limited units (except for unique skills), or worse send them home for feather. Keep one version of the unit, and transform the other in combat manual instead, it will take only ONE place on all the ones you have.

Even if you don't like the unit, it's a free unit, and again a limited unit, keep it for your collection, I know too many people who regret having done that.

I mean

I keep every unit I pull or otherwise obtain, whether I like them or not or whether they have bad natures or not, so you're lecturing at the wrong person anyway.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Sunwoo

[bottlegnomes]

5 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Being a final boss would be enough to get star treatment.  Hardin isn't even a final boss but the main villain, nor was he necessarily super popular (though I love him personally), yet he got the royal treatment.  I suspect that Medeus would too if he is on a banner.  These super boss units aren't comparable to side characters like you mentioned.  

You're basing that off of two characters, one who was an easy chance to introduce a DC lance armor and the most popular boss in the series. Lewyn and Quan are of similar importance and look at the gap between them. Same with Eliwood and Hector. Heck, everyone was bitching about Reinhardt getting preferential treatment over Lief and Lief clearly had a lot more thought put into his kit than WoT!Rein or Olwen. How the devs intend something doesn't always translate into how things play out. There aren't enough final bosses, or even big bads, in the game, either through summoning or GHBs to really make a basis. There are, however, enough popular units and GHB units to say that GHBs aren't as subpar as you keep claiming. Yeah, they're usually weaker than the primary attraction, but no they're usually not significantly weaker than the accompaniment since that's what they are.

Heck, F!Grima is a legendary hero, summonable, a cute girl, and a final boss all in one and still considered possibly the worst dragon and one of the worse legendary heroes. Julius's kit is every bit as synergistic as hers. So basically there's Hardin and M!Grima vs. Julius and F!Grima. That's hardly a damning pattern for free big bosses.

[Alkaid]

3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Not a direct criticism of you, just you made me think of it. Why does everyone act like OG Hector isn't still broke as hell? Berserk Armads makes him basically the same as LA Hector. Sure, he doesn't hit quite as hard and isn't quite as bulky, but 52 attack and guaranteed glimmers, moonbows, or bonfires if you have wrath, doesn't really mean he's having trouble killing everything, and wary fighter lets him tank pretty well even with his meh resistance. There's a reason he's still top tier on both tier lists, much as I disagree with some of their stuff.

Oh, I wasn't actually knocking my OG Hector himself. I meant crappy lineup overall since my other two have terrible IVs and I have just 3 axe armors total. I haven't been able to get Hector's alts or anything to widen my selection in a long time. Hector's still fine, even if he powercrept himself.

[Lewyn]

15 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

You're basing that off of two characters, one who was an easy chance to introduce a DC lance armor and the most popular boss in the series. Lewyn and Quan are of similar importance and look at the gap between them. Same with Eliwood and Hector. Heck, everyone was bitching about Reinhardt getting preferential treatment over Lief and Lief clearly had a lot more thought put into his kit than WoT!Rein or Olwen. How the devs intend something doesn't always translate into how things play out. There aren't enough final bosses, or even big bads, in the game, either through summoning or GHBs to really make a basis. There are, however, enough popular units and GHB units to say that GHBs aren't as subpar as you keep claiming. Yeah, they're usually weaker than the primary attraction, but no they're usually not significantly weaker than the accompaniment since that's what they are.

Heck, F!Grima is a legendary hero, summonable, a cute girl, and a final boss all in one and still considered possibly the worst dragon and one of the worse legendary heroes. Julius's kit is every bit as synergistic as hers. So basically there's Hardin and M!Grima vs. Julius and F!Grima. That's hardly a damning pattern for free big bosses.

F! Grima is way better and very underrated.  She's a legendary hero, so blessings.  She not only has her PRF Weapon she has one of the most amazing A skills in the game.  She is also the only colorless dragon, and one of only 3 flying dragons.  Now tell me how many infantry red mages are there?  50?  Quite a lot.  F! Grima is one of the most special unique units in the game.  So is M! Grima.  Hardin is the only armor with a DC lance and one of the best mixed tanks in the game, the best blue by many peoples standards until Brave Hector came out.  

There is a clear difference in treatment between all of them and Julius. 

[Tybrosion]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

Am I the only one excited about getting Daddy Garon finally?  His absence was a bit odd for so long.

No. I know I'll promote him ASAP even though my 5* axe armor count is currently sitting at six.

[Alkaid]

I really hope his weapon has innate DC, unlike what Walhart got. As an armor it's much more important to be sure he has it, and I sure don't have any DC fodder to throw at him if he doesn't. It'll be a shame if he ends up like Zephiel and is good but is clearly dying for DC.

[Rezzy]

12 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

No. I know I'll promote him ASAP even though my 5* axe armor count is currently sitting at six.

 

7 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I really hope his weapon has innate DC, unlike what Walhart got. As an armor it's much more important to be sure he has it, and I sure don't have any DC fodder to throw at him if he doesn't. It'll be a shame if he ends up like Zephiel and is good but is clearly dying for DC.

Is Garon confirmed to be an Axe Armor?  I don't remember if he was armored in Fates, and he might be a manakete.  We could use a Red Manakete that isn't Tiki.

[Tybrosion]

10 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Is Garon confirmed to be an Axe Armor?  I don't remember if he was armored in Fates, and he might be a manakete.  We could use a Red Manakete that isn't Tiki.

There's no confirmation on what he is at this point that I know of, Axe Armor is just my first guess. I'm pretty sure he wasn't classified as an armored unit in Fates, but neither was Zephiel in Binding Blade.

I'd personally give more consideration into him being a manakete if not for the banner that's accompanying his GHB being explicitly Conquest-based, where he doesn't turn into a dragon.

[Alkaid]

22 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

 

Is Garon confirmed to be an Axe Armor?  I don't remember if he was armored in Fates, and he might be a manakete.  We could use a Red Manakete that isn't Tiki.

No, I'm just going with the common guess like most are. I'd be kind of surprised if he were a manakete. I would think since he turns into a dragon in Birthright and a slime creature in Conquest, they'd just go the middle of the road and make him neither one specifically. So just being tough axe armor or even infantry seems fitting to me. And like Tybrosion just said, the banner is Conquest-based so I think that further reduces the chance he'd have the dragon side of things incorperated.

[bottlegnomes]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

F! Grima is way better and very underrated.  She's a legendary hero, so blessings.  She not only has her PRF Weapon she has one of the most amazing A skills in the game.  She is also the only colorless dragon, and one of only 3 flying dragons.  Now tell me how many infantry red mages are there?  50?  Quite a lot.  F! Grima is one of the most special unique units in the game.  So is M! Grima.  Hardin is the only armor with a DC lance and one of the best mixed tanks in the game, the best blue by many peoples standards until Brave Hector came out.  

There is a clear difference in treatment between all of them and Julius. 

Unique =/= Good. She's a solid unit, and I like mine a lot, but she's still probably the worst dragon, not having the defensive stats to really tank multiple hits nor having the offense to go full PP without either sacrificing her unique skill, turning her into a slightly better version of Catria but without the brave and firesweep options, or requiring a bunch of ally boosting. Honestly, the only legendary hero I'd put as definitely below her is L!Lyn whom people like to shit on constantly, but even she had a ton of thought put into her kit. It's just that her kit doesn't really suit where the meta is at.

Julius is the best mage tank in the game. He is the only red mage who can viably tank pretty much any blue mage. How is that not unique? He has an incredibly powerful, completely unique weapon that pays incredible homage to the source material. He has nearly a full kit that synergizes very well. How is that not putting care into him? Because he doesn't live up to your idea of what he should have been? Does that mean they didn't put effort into Lief, Sigurd, Quan, F!Morgan, Olwen (take your pick, but WoT!Olwen was pretty lazy), Legendary Lyn, Gunnthra, or Fjorm? All of them are 5*s that are mediocrely regarded in large despite being very good at what they do.

Hardin is an armor because in his game he's an armor in everything but name only. Grima is an armor because he's a freaking city sized dragon with virtually impregnable scales. Julius is a rather frail kid (his in-game stats are comparatively unimpressive aside from HP) that has a book that makes him really strong. He didn't deserve to be an armor nor did he deserve to be summonable nor did he deserve to be a top tier unit, and there's nothing to justify believing that IS screwed him over by taking any of the things he deserved. Arvis "deserved" to be Emperor Arvis just as much if not more than Julius deserved any of those things.

I don't have an issue that you find Julius underwhelming—you're not the only one—nor do I have an issue with you saying that free characters aren't as optimized as banner highlights. I, and others I'd imagine, have an issue with this idea that you seem to have latched onto that IS takes characters who would otherwise be banner characters, makes them way worse, and then releases them as free characters when, frankly, they wouldn't even be in the game if they weren't free, or, at best, would be the side characters instead of the banner highlight and probably largely the same. They're free because someone they're not big enough draws. They're not going to dump a ton of shit on a unit they don't think is popular enough to be a draw, regardless of if they're summonable or not. As for the supposed Hardin favoritism despite his unpopularity, name a better character to introduce as DC lance armor let alone one that would fit what they were going for on the Fallen Heroes banner.

Edited September 14, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Nym]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

 

Is Garon confirmed to be an Axe Armor?  I don't remember if he was armored in Fates, and he might be a manakete.  We could use a Red Manakete that isn't Tiki.

He wasn't in fate but most axe wielders in Heroes are armored or on horse.

And he was kind of big kinda like the vilain in Book 2.

[Thunderstar]

I am curious how they will handle his quotes.

I don't think I am going to ever care for him as a villain no matter what but I hope he doesn't say things like "Kill them all!" or *insert generic evil laugh* all the time or else it's going to be quite boring. I hope we will rather know more things about his past instead.

Gameplay wise I guess he could be either Axe Armor, Red Dragon or even a Sword Cavalier if it's based on his younger version.

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

 

Is Garon confirmed to be an Axe Armor?  I don't remember if he was armored in Fates, and he might be a manakete.  We could use a Red Manakete that isn't Tiki.

It's not confirmed but the Nohrian King class uses the General class' animations so it's possible. 

 

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Unique =/= Good. She's a solid unit, and I like mine a lot, but she's still probably the worst dragon, not having the defensive stats to really tank multiple hits nor having the offense to go full PP without either sacrificing her unique skill, turning her into a slightly better version of Catria but without the brave and firesweep options, or requiring a bunch of ally boosting. Honestly, the only legendary hero I'd put as definitely below her is L!Lyn whom people like to shit on constantly, but even she had a ton of thought put into her kit. It's just that her kit doesn't really suit where the meta is at.

Julius is the best mage tank in the game. He is the only red mage who can viably tank pretty much any blue mage. How is that not unique? He has an incredibly powerful, completely unique weapon that pays incredible homage to the source material. He has nearly a full kit that synergizes very well. How is that not putting care into him? Because he doesn't live up to your idea of what he should have been? Does that mean they didn't put effort into Lief, Sigurd, Quan, F!Morgan, Olwen (take your pick, but WoT!Olwen was pretty lazy), Legendary Lyn, Gunnthra, or Fjorm? All of them are 5*s that are mediocrely regarded in large despite being very good at what they do.

Hardin is an armor because in his game he's an armor in everything but name only. Grima is an armor because he's a freaking city sized dragon with virtually impregnable scales. Julius is a rather frail kid (his in-game stats are comparatively unimpressive aside from HP) that has a book that makes him really strong. He didn't deserve to be an armor nor did he deserve to be summonable nor did he deserve to be a top tier unit, and there's nothing to justify believing that IS screwed him over by taking any of the things he deserved. Arvis "deserved" to be Emperor Arvis just as much if not more than Julius deserved any of those things.

I don't have an issue that you find Julius underwhelming—you're not the only one—nor do I have an issue with you saying that free characters aren't as optimized as banner highlights. I, and others I'd imagine, have an issue with this idea that you seem to have latched onto that IS takes characters who would otherwise be banner characters, makes them way worse, and then releases them as free characters when, frankly, they wouldn't even be in the game if they weren't free, or, at best, would be the side characters instead of the banner highlight and probably largely the same. They're free because someone they're not big enough draws. They're not going to dump a ton of shit on a unit they don't think is popular enough to be a draw, regardless of if they're summonable or not. As for the supposed Hardin favoritism despite his unpopularity, name a better character to introduce as DC lance armor let alone one that would fit what they were going for on the Fallen Heroes banner.

She's a great unit, and I have one too.  People compare her to M grima, but she is way more mobile obviously being the best mobility type (flier).  She has fantastic player phase potential, fits great on dragon or flier teams, her A skill lets her tank arrows and buffs her general defenses.  

Sanaki is a better mage tank red.  With her refined weapon she has much more nuking potential, and she also has high res.  Just like Julius she wants to stay the hell away from physical units, but if you drive/buff her through the moon sure she can take some hits maybe.  

We are talking about grima possessed Robin.  Robin is just a nerdy tactician.  He has a dragon inside him.  Julius, frail or whatever, was a much more challenging final boss than Grima who you can defeat easily with any character from Awakening.  Robin didn't deserve to be an armor, but he got the banner treatment and all that extra BST.  

Hardin was a banner 'side' character.  Grima was the "highlight" right?  Yet still he was awesome.  You don't have to be the 'star' of the banner to not suck.  When Medeus is released maybe he won't be the star of his banner, but I'm sure he'll be pretty impressive.  Unless he is a GHB unit.  In which case, well he'll have to be a dragon, but will probably be the weakest one of them all with nothing special.  

Arvis is from the 1st gen.  There is no 1st gen Julius, there is only one version.  We can and probably will get Emperor Arvis in the future and he will be an armor red mage.  While Arvis from gen 1 was just a sage/mage or whatever so his treatment in heroes is fine.  

 

[bottlegnomes]

13 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

She's a great unit, and I have one too.  People compare her to M grima, but she is way more mobile obviously being the best mobility type (flier).  She has fantastic player phase potential, fits great on dragon or flier teams, her A skill lets her tank arrows and buffs her general defenses.  

She's not even remotely comparable to either Hardin or M!Grima though. She's honestly about on par with NY!Camilla. Bit better due to breath niceties, but basically both are mixed phase fliers.

 

15 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Sanaki is a better mage tank red.  With her refined weapon she has much more nuking potential, and she also has high res.  Just like Julius she wants to stay the hell away from physical units, but if you drive/buff her through the moon sure she can take some hits maybe.

Sanaki's not nearly as good against blues, having effectively -4 res when her effective is active, which is quite restrictive. Setting that aside the effect, the only thing separating the two's offense is basically natures.

 

18 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

We are talking about grima possessed Robin.  Robin is just a nerdy tactician.  He has a dragon inside him.  Julius, frail or whatever, was a much more challenging final boss than Grima who you can defeat easily with any character from Awakening.  Robin didn't deserve to be an armor, but he got the banner treatment and all that extra BST.  

Grima-possessed Robin rides on a dragon and is implied in every way to be Grima incarnate, having gained all his powers. Julius is treated in story and in gameplay as a kid with a book. Julius's power in-game and in-lore is tied to his book. Grima's is himself.

 

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Hardin was a banner 'side' character.  Grima was the "highlight" right?  Yet still he was awesome.  You don't have to be the 'star' of the banner to not suck. 

No. Hardin, Grima, and Celica were the stars the same way Veronica, Ephraim, Celica, and Hector where the stars of CYL2, Mia, Dorcas, and Lute were the stars of Farfetched, and Lyn, Roy, Ike, and Lucina were the stars of CYL1. Quan and Silvia would be supporting characters, Legault, Ares, Lene, Shigure, Kana I guess (but I think they underestimated dragons), the Morgans (maybe not F!Morgan, but she's a tossup), etc. The closest to a supporting character on FH was Celica.

 

36 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

When Medeus is released maybe he won't be the star of his banner, but I'm sure he'll be pretty impressive.

Maybe. Maybe he'll be mediocre. Maybe he'll be somewhere in between like Ares or F!Morgan (who's basically flying blue Julius). I'm pretty sure Olwen was supposed to be impressive and Reinhardt was supposed to be decent. Same with Lief and Reinhardt.

 

37 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Unless he is a GHB unit.  In which case, well he'll have to be a dragon, but will probably be the weakest one of them all with nothing special.  

But M!Kana 100% proves this isn't always the case. He's not the worst dragon and he had both a new, otherwise 5*-locked weapon and an otherwise 5*-locked brazen.

 

39 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Arvis is from the 1st gen.  There is no 1st gen Julius, there is only one version.  We can and probably will get Emperor Arvis in the future and he will be an armor red mage.  While Arvis from gen 1 was just a sage/mage or whatever so his treatment in heroes is fine.  

But why did mage Arvis deserve to get in first? Why not have Jamke as the GHB and save Arvis for a banner unit with an amazing skillset and stats? That's basically what you're saying with Julius, unless I'm misunderstanding something: Someone else should've been the GHB and Julius should've gotten to be a banner unit and would have subsequently been way better.

[Poimagic]

Spoiler

Garon is confirmed by the datamine to be an armored dragon. Guess the dreams of Bolverk are ruined

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@bottlegnomes F!Grima is actually batshit crazy for largely the same reason Cam(Vanilla) is right now one of the prime unit for Flier Emblem. Her stats is good at everything and thats the kind of unit that scales well with buff stacking. Far as inside role goes shes a good add for Flier Emblem to give a backbone for them and unlike most unit of this kind she have acceptably good Player Phase with her stats and adaptive/res strike. Shes a good build around

Shes easilly better than Fae as far as Dragon goes and i would honestly rate her top 5 Flier(or at least ones that isnt stupid broken Bladetomes). Not gonna say much atm since i dont know how the Dragons ranked atm but eh

 

Relative to their pool she is better than Hardin. Like im a huge fan of Hardin and all but honestly the difference between Hardin and say Bold Fighter DC Slayer Lance Gwendolyn/Effie isnt that much. FGrima is like "just below Bladetomes"

 

Granted she probably kinda sucked for Infernal but thats about it

Edited September 14, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Poimagic]

But wait, there is more

Spoiler

Garon is RED armored dragon, with this as his weapon:

Garon’s weapon - Neutralizes "effective against dragons" bonuses. At the start of turn 4, deals 10 damage to foes within 3 spaces, and restores HP to unit = number of foes within 3 spaces × 5. If foe's Range = 2, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.

 

[mcsilas]

11 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

  Hide contents

Garon is confirmed by the datamine to be an armored dragon. Guess the dreams of Bolverk are ruined

 

Spoiler

I guess Bolverk becomes a more valid optionfor legendary Xander or another Camilla alt

yes i know there will be salt to have an extra alt for those. Unless they give us Bolverk Leo or something.

 

[RexBolt]

10 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

But wait, there is more

  Hide contents

Garon is RED armored dragon, with this as his weapon:

Garon’s weapon - Neutralizes "effective against dragons" bonuses. At the start of turn 4, deals 10 damage to foes within 3 spaces, and restores HP to unit = number of foes within 3 spaces × 5. If foe's Range = 2, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.

 

Wtf is there even a skill that  auto damages like that? All i can think of is Sutr knockoff!

Edit: Oh, wait. Read better. Still awfull as all hell but not so game breaking, maybe?

Edited September 14, 2018 by RexBolt

[ILikeKirbys]

Spoiler

Wait, is Garon an Armored Dragon? The datamine I saw on Gamepress says Infantry Dragon.

Either way, Blight Breath interests me greatly, and I look forward to seeing his skills.

 

[Poimagic]

@ILikeKirbys

Spoiler

I posted that before knowing that. And I can confirm, he is an Infantry red dragon 

 

[NegativeExponents-]

4 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

  Hide contents

I guess Bolverk becomes a more valid optionfor legendary Xander or another Camilla alt

yes i know there will be salt to have an extra alt for those. Unless they give us Bolverk Leo or something.

 

Spoiler

I would actually be all for a Bolverk Leo alt. They could also do a young Garon alt wielding Bolverk which would be interesting.

 

[Lewyn]

Spoiler

Infantry dragon.  Mixed bulk.  Weapon seems interesting at least.  Remember what I said about free vs banner units, Garon would definitely be an armor as a banner unit.  Still being a dragon with that weapon means he is going to be pretty good.