[Datamine] New GHB: Garon, King of Nohr

[EricaofRenais]

12 hours ago, Lord_Grima said:

Considering that the banner is specifically from Conquest, my guess is this version of Garon will also be from Conquest.

So, most likely he will be another Axe DC armor unit, but IS might surprise us like they did with Walhart and give him a unique skill instead of DC on his weapon.

There is no way IS would give players 3 free sources of DC sadly.  My Myrrh is waiting for DC and will probably wait forever.  Garon's weapon will likely have DC built in if we are lucky.  I really hope they do something different and have Garon be an ax cav because I already have really good ax armors.  Of course if they give him armor march that for me would be an ok sub for DC since my H!Jakob needs that skill.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Kaden said:

Like others, I'm wondering what Bolverk's effects will be if it doesn't have Distant Counter. There's not much to go off of its effect in Fates, +20 dodge, for Heroes.

I wonder how a Deflect Magic and Missile effect with a higher threshold Guard would work. By higher threshold, I mean like >= 50% HP or him not being dead. That could work to emulate its dodge bonus where Bolverk makes it harder for Garon to be nuked by follow-ups and quickly charged specials.

I could see Bolverk getting the same effect as Great Flame to continue the near-monopoly green has on omnibreaker.

 

35 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

You know how one of many heroes' voice clips has them chuckling, giggling, etc.? Well, Garon's voice clip could having him audibly groaning in increasing discomfort.

Zephiel's "laugh" voice clip in Japanese is just him grunting a "hmph" at you.

[Kaden]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I could see Bolverk getting the same effect as Great Flame to continue the near-monopoly green has on omnibreaker.

That reminds me, I was wondering how Sheena getting a resistance check version of Great Flame for a personal axe would work. I was going to search if someone already brought up that idea, but I'm at uni right now, so I won't be able to do so thoroughly.

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Zephiel's "laugh" voice clip in Japanese is just him grunting a "hmph" at you.

He does that in English too. I love how he has "Hmmmmph!" for a special quote. I hope we get a new hero someday who has "..." for a special quote. Utter silence or that you're simply not worth getting a one-liner from them.

[Alkaid]

I hope he's an armor with DC axe. My only axe armors are OG Hector, a -atk Amelia and a -atk W.Lissa, so pretty crappy lineup. I probably won't end up getting any of Hectors better alts, so somebody else new to use in the axe armor role would be appreciated.

Hopefully he also gets a bit of characterization added as well. I like the little bit of extra fleshing out the villains usually get from their lines here.

[bottlegnomes]

13 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Yup a ton of set up. What do you do with M Grima?  Nothing, he needs no spurs, buffs, he doesn't need close defense or distant defense.  He just destroys things and tanks.  That is the difference between free and banner. 

Man, I know you seem to think that free units are intentionally made to be garbage, but Grima isn't as broken as you seem to want to make him be. He gets slaughtered by any red mage that can survive one hit. Heck, VF makes him more dangerous than his actual statline, and even then, really all that means is that the unit should be able to 2HKO him, which really only takes 59 physical and 51 magical attack on top of 29 speed, not super hard to achieve between WTA and buffs. The fact that Julius can tank Reinhardt is astounding, and on top of that, he actually has passable defense for a mage. I get that you're disappointed that he's not broken, but IS didn't spit in his face by making him a free unit. Heck, Quan is probably less impressive and he was a banner unit.

As for free, in addition to those mentioned, Linus, aside from lack of IVs and merges, is for all intents and purposes as good as Raven, Walhart and Frederick, Eliwood is great, and Camus and Xander were the best of their categories for some time.

 

2 hours ago, Kaden said:

I hope we get a new hero someday who has "..." for a special quote. Utter silence or that you're simply not worth getting a one-liner from them.

That would've been perfect for Jaffar! Maybe someday we'll get like Shiva or someone who it'll work for.

 

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

I hope he's an armor with DC axe. My only axe armors are OG Hector, a -atk Amelia and a -atk W.Lissa, so pretty crappy lineup. I probably won't end up getting any of Hectors better alts, so somebody else new to use in the axe armor role would be appreciated.

Hopefully he also gets a bit of characterization added as well. I like the little bit of extra fleshing out the villains usually get from their lines here.

Not a direct criticism of you, just you made me think of it. Why does everyone act like OG Hector isn't still broke as hell? Berserk Armads makes him basically the same as LA Hector. Sure, he doesn't hit quite as hard and isn't quite as bulky, but 52 attack and guaranteed glimmers, moonbows, or bonfires if you have wrath, doesn't really mean he's having trouble killing everything, and wary fighter lets him tank pretty well even with his meh resistance. There's a reason he's still top tier on both tier lists, much as I disagree with some of their stuff.

Edited September 13, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Lewyn]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And instantly explodes to Falchion and Tiki.

The Black Knight also retains S-tier status, hampered only by his lack of merges and non-neutral natures. Ethlin is S- because staff cavalry units are ridiculous by default.

 

Neither was Zephiel. However, these are the only (non-seasonal) units who are armors in Heroes and weren't in their original games, and both of them make sense because they're big and bulky and had unique classes to avoid having weaknesses that would make them less impressive of bosses.

I mean he should instantly explode against units with color advantage and effective damage on top.  However that adds up to very few units.  Meanwhile any melee blue can decimate Julius, most melee reds, some melee greens.  He probably has to worry about 100 or more units.

Black Knight was amazing when released, but Zephiel is a better version of him.   I'm happy with Ethlyn, art is top tier, and she has that high defense/good speed.

If Garon comes with Vengeful fighter that would be amazing.  

@bottlegnomes Yeah Grima isn't unstoppable but is a top tier unit with the highest BST bin, DC PRF effective damage breath weapon, the only carrier of ward dragons which is probably the best dragon buff, tied for highest attack in the game (had highest when released I believe), can be built to be an enemy phase or player phase monster thanks to armor skills, good mixed bulk as well.  No I don't want any character to be "broken", but Julius is a laughing stock in comparison to Grima.  He wouldn't be if he were a banner unit.  I mean Julius doesn't get dragon buffs, but suffers effective against dragon damage on top of his lame infantry ranged BST.  

Also yeah we've gotten some good free units.  However it seems last year free units seemed just as good as banner units.  Xander and Camus were amazing.  Arvis was so cool with the special B skill and tome.  Masked Marth is neutral Lucina who was a powerful sword at the time.  Black Knight at release was strongest red armor.  However we can see this year is much different.  

Edited September 13, 2018 by Lewyn

[Drakhis]

15 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Dammit who the fuck wanted Garon anyway

Me ? I wanted an armored version of him, although I would prefer a younger version of him (sword cavalry nice Garon) but I don't think it will happen.

Other than that I REALLY do not understand that people fodder limited units (except for unique skills), or worse send them home for feather. Keep one version of the unit, and transform the other in combat manual instead, it will take only ONE place on all the ones you have.

Even if you don't like the unit, it's a free unit, and again a limited unit, keep it for your collection, I know too many people who regret having done that.

[Kaden]

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Heck, Quan is probably less impressive and he was a banner unit.

When I saw Quan's stats, I thought of Clive. He's basically +Atk and +Spd, -Res Clive with a legendary lance that gives him +5 Atk/Def against infantry, cavalry, and armors, gen 2 cavalry BST, and a better default skill set.

Clive has 45 HP, 33 Atk, 25 Spd, 32 Def, and 19 Res (154 BST) to Quan's 44 HP, 37 Atk, 29 Spd, 31 Def, and 16 Res (157 BST).

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

That would've been perfect for Jaffar! Maybe someday we'll get like Shiva or someone who it'll work for.

Beruka too since she is an assassin. I wonder if it could work for Ulki. I haven't played the Tellius games yet, but the wiki say he's quiet and reserved.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Kaden

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

The worst villain in the fire emblem series poorly designed 

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Altenna was well deserved but guess I’ll keep on waiting for my favorite Minerva archetype 

[Drakhis]

4 minutes ago, AzuraxCorrin(M)4Life said:

The worst villain in the fire emblem series poorly designed 

 

Nop there is worst: Hans, Gharnef, Gangrel... I'm not going to list everyone but no Garon is not the worst.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Drakhis

[mampfoid]

I like when GHB units are actually bad guys. I just fear it'll be a map with three times wary fighter like Zephiel's. 

[bottlegnomes]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Yeah Grima isn't unstoppable but is a top tier unit with the highest BST bin, DC PRF effective damage breath weapon, the only carrier of ward dragons which is probably the best dragon buff, tied for highest attack in the game (had highest when released I believe), can be built to be an enemy phase or player phase monster thanks to armor skills, good mixed bulk as well.  No I don't want any character to be "broken", but Julius is a laughing stock in comparison to Grima.  He wouldn't be if he were a banner unit.  I mean Julius doesn't get dragon buffs, but suffers effective against dragon damage on top of his lame infantry ranged BST.  

Also yeah we've gotten some good free units.  However it seems last year free units seemed just as good as banner units.  Xander and Camus were amazing.  Arvis was so cool with the special B skill and tome.  Masked Marth is neutral Lucina who was a powerful sword at the time.  Black Knight at release was strongest red armor.  However we can see this year is much different.  

There's not as much of a gap as you're making out though. Yeah, they're worse than the star, but they're generally on par with the drop and even sometimes less impressive 5*, which is perfectly reasonable. If Julius was on the banner, what are the chances he would've been popular enough to even get the star treatment? We saw how well Quan, Sumia, Libra, Shigure, Legault, etc. fared and I'm pretty sure they were all similarly if not more popular.

 

1 hour ago, Kaden said:

When I saw Quan's stats, I thought of Clive. He's basically +Atk and +Spd, -Res Clive with a legendary lance that gives him +5 Atk/Def against infantry, cavalry, and armors, gen 2 cavalry BST, and a better default skill set.

Clive has 45 HP, 33 Atk, 25 Spd, 32 Def, and 19 Res (154 BST) to Quan's 44 HP, 37 Atk, 29 Spd, 31 Def, and 16 Res (157 BST).

Beruka too since she is an assassin. I wonder if it could work for Ulki. I haven't played the Tellius games yet, but the wiki say he's quiet and reserved.

Yeah, he's real unimpressive. I really feel like he'd be better off just running a def refined slaying lance or Sumia's lance. +5 attack and def is great, but fliers are a not insignificant portion of the game, especially in arena. F2P is kinder, but still, it's not like he can go PP anyway, and slaying lance means he can QR bonfire without getting doubled.

Beruka is a definite too. Ulki I couldn't see. He's definitely reserved, but he's also too polite from what I remember to just straight up ignore you. I feel like he'd be more along the lines of like Eliwood or someone.

 

57 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

Nop there is worst: Hans, Gharnef, Gangrel... I'm not going to list everyone but no Garon is not the worst.

Gharnef and Gangrel? Gangrel is quite fun, has a fairly solid backstory, and looks awesome, and Gharnef at least has sensical motivations.

Edited September 13, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Drakhis]

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

There's not as much of a gap as you're making out though. Yeah, they're worse than the star, but they're generally on par with the drop and even sometimes less impressive 5*, which is perfectly reasonable. If Julius was on the banner, what are the chances he would've been popular enough to even get the star treatment? We saw how well Quan, Sumia, Libra, Shigure, Legault, etc. fared and I'm pretty sure they were all similarly if not more popular.

 

Yeah, he's real unimpressive. I really feel like he'd be better off just running a def refined slaying lance or Sumia's lance. +5 attack and def is great, but fliers are a not insignificant portion of the game, especially in arena. F2P is kinder, but still, it's not like he can go PP anyway, and slaying lance means he can QR bonfire without getting doubled.

Beruka is a definite too. Ulki I couldn't see. He's definitely reserved, but he's also too polite from what I remember to just straight up ignore you. I feel like he'd be more along the lines of like Eliwood or someone.

 

Gharnef and Gangrel? Gangrel is quite fun, has a fairly solid backstory, and looks awesome, and Gharnef at least has sensical motivations.

 

I agree with you, but in my opinion, you can't say that Garon is worst than Gangrel, even if I like him. And the spotpass chapter is certainly not better written than Garon (this being said I really like Gangrel support too). Saying that Garon is the worst when in the same game where there is Hans... It frustrates me. Hans is Garon but with more selfish reason (I don't like Hans but I can understand that someone can like him, but not that you criticize Garon without criticizing Hans). I do not mind that people don't like him, but I hate that people criticize any character as if no one can like him.

 

[bottlegnomes]

9 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

I agree with you, but in my opinion, you can't say that Garon is worst than Gangrel, even if I like him. And the spotpass chapter is certainly not better written than Garon (this being said I really like Gangrel support too). Saying that Garon is the worst when in the same game where there is Hans... It frustrates me. Hans is Garon but with more selfish reason (I don't like Hans but I can understand that someone can like him, but not that you criticize Garon without criticizing Hans). I do not mind that people don't like him, but I hate that people criticize any character as if no one can like him.

Oh, I don't have any issue with liking him. I'm talking purely just writing quality, granted that's even subjective. The spotpass is hazy, but in the story, Gangrel has fairly well established motivations and executes them rather well. He's overall pretty memorable in more subjective terms, though talking across the fanbase. Gharnef has very well established reasons, is a very active participant in the story, and his hubris that keeps him from killing you in the Khaden chapter is actually a recurring thing rather than just thrown in for the sake of having him leave. He's a pretty typical villain, but he's done well.

I'm very foggy on Fates as a whole, but I don't remember Garon doing much of anything other than sitting there and saying what Iago told him to say. I think the reason people prefer Hans is that, while pretty simple, he actually has motivations, i.e. to get out of poverty.

Mind, again, I definitely don't have any issue with people liking him. I think his design is awesome. I just hated Fates as a whole, not even just Garon, so I haven't touched it in like two years and didn't pay much attention after the first couple chapters anyway.

[Tybrosion]

5 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'm very foggy on Fates as a whole, but I don't remember Garon doing much of anything other than sitting there and saying what Iago told him to say.

Replace Iago with Anankos, and then that assessment of Garon would be rather accurate. 

[Drakhis]

5 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh, I don't have any issue with liking him. I'm talking purely just writing quality, granted that's even subjective. The spotpass is hazy, but in the story, Gangrel has fairly well established motivations and executes them rather well. He's overall pretty memorable in more subjective terms, though talking across the fanbase. Gharnef has very well established reasons, is a very active participant in the story, and his hubris that keeps him from killing you in the Khaden chapter is actually a recurring thing rather than just thrown in for the sake of having him leave. He's a pretty typical villain, but he's done well.

I'm very foggy on Fates as a whole, but I don't remember Garon doing much of anything other than sitting there and saying what Iago told him to say. I think the reason people prefer Hans is that, while pretty simple, he actually has motivations, i.e. to get out of poverty.

Mind, again, I definitely don't have any issue with people liking him. I think his design is awesome. I just hated Fates as a whole, not even just Garon, so I haven't touched it in like two years and didn't pay much attention after the first couple chapters anyway.

I can understand that (how many times did I say that today ?) and I'm okay with people giving their opinion. I just don't like when someone said: "'your taste are ****" ^^ I enjoyed fates, I like conquest, I don't like birthright and I love revelation. Nohr characters are well written in a way, their family bond. the interactions between them are for me like the relationship I had with my family and with the world. Sometimes it's our life story who can make us appreciate or not the story or the characters of a game, and I think that many people have found that in fates

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

1 hour ago, Drakhis said:

 

Nop there is worst: Hans, Gharnef, Gangrel... I'm not going to list everyone but no Garon is not the worst.

True 

[bottlegnomes]

4 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

I can understand that (how many times did I say that today ?) and I'm okay with people giving their opinion. I just don't like when someone said: "'your taste are ****" ^^ I enjoyed fates, I like conquest, I don't like birthright and I love revelation. Nohr characters are well written in a way, their family bond. the interactions between them are for me like the relationship I had with my family and with the world. Sometimes it's our life story who can make us appreciate or not the story or the characters of a game, and I think that many people have found that in fates

Oh, yeah, that's douchey when people insult tastes. My big issues with Fates were how much everyone bent over backwards to justify Corrin's actions and how it seemed like every other character's schtick was I like hurting people. For the former, take Alm, who also falls into the whole being a bit too perfect thing. Alm makes some rather questionable decisions from a military standpoint, e.g. stopping to help Delthea and Luthier's village, but they're still reasonable decisions given his idealistic nature. All his things just feel like he always makes the right decision. Corrin it felt more like he made wrong decisions and then the story tried to twist them into being the right decisions through some convoluted logic. But like I said, that's just my take on it from quite a while back.

 

21 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Replace Iago with Anankos, and then that assessment of Garon would be rather accurate. 

Oh, yeah, wasn't he the voice in the ceiling or something?

[Tybrosion]

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh, yeah, wasn't he the voice in the ceiling or something?

He's a bit more than that. Unless if you don't care about Fates spoilers, I can't really say more than that.

[Drakhis]

3 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

He's a bit more than that. Unless if you don't care about Fates spoilers, I can't really say more than that.

Spoiler

If you tell him the truth, he's going to disappear ^^

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Drakhis

[bottlegnomes]

8 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

He's a bit more than that. Unless if you don't care about Fates spoilers, I can't really say more than that.

Oh, I spoiled the whole story for myself. Finished Conquest and Birthright, just got burned out about 1/3 into Revelations.

 

He's old eyeball mouth

The ceiling voice is just what I remember from Conquest.

On a serious note, how do we close spoiler tags? I keep trying [ / spoiler] sans spaces, but it always gets really janky and groups the text after the tag inside the box, but not as part of the text field or something.

Edited September 13, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh, I spoiled the whole story for myself. Finished Conquest and Birthright, just got burned out about 1/3 into Revelations.

The ceiling voice is just what I remember from Conquest.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He's old eyeball mouth

 

 

Ah, alright. Though naturally, Revelation is the one where Anankos is far more relevant. Though if you got 1/3 of the way through, then you should've past the part where Azura explains the basics about Anankos since that happens as early as Chapter 7.

[bottlegnomes]

4 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Ah, alright. Though naturally, Revelation is the one where Anankos is far more relevant. Though if you got 1/3 of the way through, then you should've past the part where Azura explains the basics about Anankos since that happens as early as Chapter 7.

I think I did. It was the awful ice chapter in the village. Don't remember what chapter that was for certain, but I think it was chapter 8. But my roommate actually finished it and I had no issues with spoilers, so most of things got spoiled.

Edited September 13, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Tybrosion]

5 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I think I did. It was the awful ice chapter in the village. Don't remember what chapter that was for certain, but I think it was chapter 8. But my roommate actually finished it and I had no issues with spoilers, so most of things got spoiled.

Iced-over Izumo is Chapter 10. The chapter I'm talking about is the one that has pseudo-fog of war and is where you regain Gunter.