My Hero Academia Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

Eury?

[Alette]

55 minutes ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

ok i'm here to answer to some accusations against me.

While I really did misread Alette's post on "solving process" and whatnot, and dropped my case, that doesn't mean I stopped scumreading them - i in fact still do. I dropped the case at the time mostly because a) momentum was gone and b) it's kinda hard to keep pressuring someone when they say "your playstyle is frustrating, so I'm not going to respond to you anymore"

I didn't comment or react to what else had been happening around during d1 because I didn't find it worth commenting, especially when I would simply be reiterating other people's statements. If you wanted my opinion on certain interactions, you should ask me, like you guys have been doing amongst each other. t f t i

speaking of which, bartozio's comment about how I just reiterated other people's points in one specific instance (in the bart interaction with kts iirc? i forgot to quote this line my b) is specifically why I try to avoid talking points that chalk up to "i agree with xxxx/i disagree with xxxx/this is my opinion on this interaction" unless specifically asked.

To explain the other point brought up by bart in that post, I had thought flee fleet had chainsaw defended alette in reaction to my second wallpost and i spazzed out; flee fleet later immediately explained that they had commented on a section of the post that they thought was referring to them, when that wasn't my intention. i dropped that case there.

I would also like to argue that my case against Alette wasn't a tunnel. I made 2 wallposts on them, and the second one came because I felt (as did many others) that their response was inadequate and dismissive. Alette's response to my second wallpost was, well, see above

Like i mentioned earlier, i still scumread Alette - their reactions to my accusations, their dismissive attitude toward me, and their overall wishy-washy, floating-on-by posts all strike me as scum that doesn't want to leave behind posts that they can be held accountable for.

A lot of people also tried to put me/rad together, since rad defended me, but scum rad would have no reason to defend me to this length. if i were their teammate. that would only attract unnecessary attention (like it did) and put both of us in danger - scum rad would probably just try to bus me.

this doesn't mean I townread them - I'm just explaining what rad would've done if we were scum teammates. Rad's posts about me (since i'm town) are NAI, as both scum and town rad would do the same actions to gain my trust (because we can read each other pretty well)

 

I'll post a readslist within this gameday, but I'd like to point out one important townread that I have on:

  Reveal hidden contents

flee fleet!

i basically townlock this slot and here's why

approximately 6 hours before DL, flee fleet posted this - this was just 10 minutes before tuvy's slip was exposed by Athena. I don't see a scum flee fleet intentionally choosing the tuvy that was their teammate to bus (unless all 3 are scum, in which case like /shrug) without referencing the slip as their lynch reason. I also highly doubt that all four scum failed to notice tuvy's slip when it happened, esp when athena questioned it immediately thereafter - based on the assumption that scum were aware of tuvy's slip from early on, I also would like to discard the "fleefleet could be newbscum" argument because I would expect the scumteam to coach fleefleet when bussing, or just have someone else initiate it instead. Instead, I see this as scum choosing not to use that slip as bus fodder and instead holding their breath and hoping town wouldn't notice. Flee fleet, in this scenario, is obviously not part of that scumteam.

I would also like to mention two people here related to the tuvy lynch here, and why don't townlock them as I do flee fleet.

first is Athena. I do townread them after rereading the string of events, but imo there's still the slight possibility of Athena bussing tuvy here.

If Athena happened to see tuvy mess up and slip at that moment, they may have made that initial questioning post/subsequent lynch post to take advantage of the slip via bussing - they got off tuvy when momentum on that lynch never happened at that moment. They could have then reintroduced that talking point near eod1 when other people started lynching tuvy. I don't see this being the case, but it's still not impossible, so I thought i'd mention it here, and is why my athena read is not a 100% townlock.

Speaking of which,

Alette was the first person to have lynched tuvy, before even fleefleet. Here's why I don't think Alette's lynch on tuvy is a towntell. First is timing:

This vote was placed over 12 hours before the wagon started on tuvy, so this can easily be interpreted as "i'll place my vote on my scum buddy early on; I still have plenty of time before DL to switch to an appropriate wagon near deadline, or I could just let my vote stay there if it won't affect the votecount. If tuvy does get lynched because of the earlier slip, I'll get towncred for being the first on the wagon". Alette didn't post from midnight that night (my time) until an hour after that wagon formed. if this were all of it, I'd still interpret it as NAI - i don't think this alone could be considered a scumtell, since town alette could've easily just lynched them after seeing/hearing no response.

However, I found this string of actions strange - why did Alette lynch tuvy over inactivity when they expressed such reluctance to lynch, and stressed the importance of being convinced of their target being scum? What convinced you that tuvy was scum at that point? what part of tuvy's action was different from what corrobin did earlier in day 1?

While i was reading back in the middle of constructing this post, I found some interesting posts from Alette that I'd like clarification - I don't have the quotes ready, so I'll paraphrase (is there a way to add multiquotes into a post you're already working on?). 

When asked by refa who they would lynch at that moment, Alette answered "either tuvy/tuvy2" for being frozen up. However, less than an hour later, they respond to weinerboy's (who asked basically the same question as refa did) question with "tuvy/athena/kts". neither tuvy nor tuvy2 posted in between these questions. Why was tuvy2 eliminated from your scumpool? Why did you end up lynching tuvy here?

I also don't like the your post "I agree it looks bad as it is their only post so far. I've tagged them for more, but nothing," because when put into context of my earlier accusations, it just seems like you were trying to take credit for noticing the slip when all you mentioned at the time was them being frozen up. seems like an attempt at bussing/gaining some towncred to me.

I don't think this is all a coincidence, and i don't think "tunnel vision is warping my views on alette" can explain off all of this. If you guys disagree, please let me know. until then,

##vote alette

i really hate that the second part of this post became an alette case again, especially because I came into this post only intending to defend myself/state my townlock on fleefleet. I looked at the lynch patterns on tuvy, and that's when I found Alette's actions suspicious.

:GWchadMegaThink: frozenness is a scum tell in this game because they dropped their vote. I did proceed to tag both tuvy's for a read list which you failed to point out. I waited and decided to go for tuvy because the silence was alarming unlike corrobin.

[Alette]

I'm starting to think that at least one of the middle voters on tuvy bussed him though. That was my thought at flip too because refa was getting pressured at the end.

[Flee Fleet!]

2 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

flee fleet later immediately explained that they had commented on a section of the post that they thought was referring to them

Referring to Corrobin, actually.

 

2 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

approximately 6 hours before DL, flee fleet posted this - this was just 10 minutes before tuvy's slip was exposed by Athena. I don't see a scum flee fleet intentionally choosing the tuvy that was their teammate to bus (unless all 3 are scum, in which case like /shrug) without referencing the slip as their lynch reason. I also highly doubt that all four scum failed to notice tuvy's slip when it happened, esp when athena questioned it immediately thereafter - based on the assumption that scum were aware of tuvy's slip from early on, I also would like to discard the "fleefleet could be newbscum" argument because I would expect the scumteam to coach fleefleet when bussing, or just have someone else initiate it instead. Instead, I see this as scum choosing not to use that slip as bus fodder and instead holding their breath and hoping town wouldn't notice. Flee fleet, in this scenario, is obviously not part of that scumteam.

I honestly just chose Tuvy due to his inactivity and his weird as heck reason for voting Refa ("Too confident"). I only realized the slip afterwards when Athena and the others pointed it out.

And speaking of Tuvy's reason for voting Refa, I'm not surprised the latter got killed Night 1. The whole scum team probably considered them as a threat AKA "too confident" and had Tuvy (or Tuvy decided themselves) vote Refa.

Btw, reminder that @Tuvy2 voted KTS and gave no reason. I'm inclined to believe  he's also scum but that's mainly because Tuvy was scum, so I'm just going with a gut feeling. AKA I'm probably wrong.

 

Also, FJP is definitely town in my eyes. My main reason being the chainsaw defense he mentioned some pages ago, which I don't think is something scum would really mention tbh. Their posts overall give me a town vibe too.

 

 

[Flee Fleet!]

Btw, here's all the people who voted for Tuvy: 

Alette, Fleet Feet!, Mackc2, Magnificence Incarnate, Athena_57, Refa, Bartozio, Killthestory

Refa got killed so they're obviously not scum. 

 

2 hours ago, Alette said:

I'm starting to think that at least one of the middle voters on tuvy bussed him though. That was my thought at flip too because refa was getting pressured at the end.

So by middle voters, I guess you mean either me, Mackc2 or Magnificence? And I guess Bart too?

[Killthestory]

on wagon kill suggests an off wagon wolf as an fyi

[Athena_57]

No time to really talk until later, but atm I'm thinking FJP/Snike for lynch today, RAD/Shinori as people I want to put effort into getting out of the nullrange and Weiner as likeliest deepwolf (don't want to lynch there today though).

Also giving big towncred to Corrobin for Tuvy's vote on him. After more flips we could have a better idea of whether Tuvy's team would suggest a busvote, but my guess would be no.

[Athena_57]

2 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

So by middle voters, I guess you mean either me, Mackc2 or Magnificence? And I guess Bart too?

I'm townreading the former 3 and to a lesser extent the fourth fyi, so whilst I'd agree with Alette in general, I don't really agree here.

[Shinori]

1 hour ago, Killthestory said:

on wagon kill suggests an off wagon wolf as an fyi

FYI this was never actually a thing on SF until you and Yolo started stating it.

[Bartozio]

8 hours ago, Shinori said:

This is kind of a weird jump.

Why again? Marth agreed with Athena on thinking the Tuvy post was a scumslip I think, so why wouldn't he jump to lynching there?

Also, you mentioned cases on Alette being bad, but are you scumreading anyone for those?

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

ok i'm here to answer to some accusations against me.

While I really did misread Alette's post on "solving process" and whatnot, and dropped my case, that doesn't mean I stopped scumreading them - i in fact still do. I dropped the case at the time mostly because a) momentum was gone and b) it's kinda hard to keep pressuring someone when they say "your playstyle is frustrating, so I'm not going to respond to you anymore"

Why did you unvote without voting anywhere else then?

If you felt the momentum wasn't there, why didn't you consolidate somewhere?

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

I didn't comment or react to what else had been happening around during d1 because I didn't find it worth commenting, especially when I would simply be reiterating other people's statements. If you wanted my opinion on certain interactions, you should ask me, like you guys have been doing amongst each other. t f t i

speaking of which, bartozio's comment about how I just reiterated other people's points in one specific instance (in the bart interaction with kts iirc? i forgot to quote this line my b) is specifically why I try to avoid talking points that chalk up to "i agree with xxxx/i disagree with xxxx/this is my opinion on this interaction" unless specifically asked.

To explain the other point brought up by bart in that post, I had thought flee fleet had chainsaw defended alette in reaction to my second wallpost and i spazzed out; flee fleet later immediately explained that they had commented on a section of the post that they thought was referring to them, when that wasn't my intention. i dropped that case there.

I think you really misunderstood my point in that post tbh.

I don't mind it if you reiterate other people's statements. What troubles me is that all you literally did outside your Alette case was iterate what was basicly a universally agreed on point. Basicly, if Alette wasn't there, wouldn't you be just as lost as she is?

I don't dissagree with you on Alette being scummy btw, but I do think you're scummy for similar reasons.

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

I would also like to argue that my case against Alette wasn't a tunnel. I made 2 wallposts on them, and the second one came because I felt (as did many others) that their response was inadequate and dismissive. Alette's response to my second wallpost was, well, see above

I think people generally refer to a tunnel as someone only talking about one scumread and ignoring anything else that's happening in the game or only looking at it to see who makes sense as buddies for their one scumread (without judging said buddies on individual scumminess).

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

If Athena happened to see tuvy mess up and slip at that moment, they may have made that initial questioning post/subsequent lynch post to take advantage of the slip via bussing - they got off tuvy when momentum on that lynch never happened at that moment. They could have then reintroduced that talking point near eod1 when other people started lynching tuvy. I don't see this being the case, but it's still not impossible, so I thought i'd mention it here, and is why my athena read is not a 100% townlock.

This makes very little sense to me, because why would Athena ever reintroduce the Tuvy scumslip when people weren't trying to lynch him eod in this scenario?

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

Speaking of which,

Alette was the first person to have lynched tuvy, before even fleefleet. Here's why I don't think Alette's lynch on tuvy is a towntell. First is timing:

This vote was placed over 12 hours before the wagon started on tuvy, so this can easily be interpreted as "i'll place my vote on my scum buddy early on; I still have plenty of time before DL to switch to an appropriate wagon near deadline, or I could just let my vote stay there if it won't affect the votecount. If tuvy does get lynched because of the earlier slip, I'll get towncred for being the first on the wagon". Alette didn't post from midnight that night (my time) until an hour after that wagon formed. if this were all of it, I'd still interpret it as NAI - i don't think this alone could be considered a scumtell, since town alette could've easily just lynched them after seeing/hearing no response.

However, I found this string of actions strange - why did Alette lynch tuvy over inactivity when they expressed such reluctance to lynch, and stressed the importance of being convinced of their target being scum? What convinced you that tuvy was scum at that point? what part of tuvy's action was different from what corrobin did earlier in day 1?

You kind of have to lynch someone D1 to get anywhere, so I don't really think it's that weird?

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

While i was reading back in the middle of constructing this post, I found some interesting posts from Alette that I'd like clarification - I don't have the quotes ready, so I'll paraphrase (is there a way to add multiquotes into a post you're already working on?). 

When asked by refa who they would lynch at that moment, Alette answered "either tuvy/tuvy2" for being frozen up. However, less than an hour later, they respond to weinerboy's (who asked basically the same question as refa did) question with "tuvy/athena/kts". neither tuvy nor tuvy2 posted in between these questions. Why was tuvy2 eliminated from your scumpool? Why did you end up lynching tuvy here?

Like this part, actually.

5 hours ago, fairyjigglypuff said:

I also don't like the your post "I agree it looks bad as it is their only post so far. I've tagged them for more, but nothing," because when put into context of my earlier accusations, it just seems like you were trying to take credit for noticing the slip when all you mentioned at the time was them being frozen up. seems like an attempt at bussing/gaining some towncred to me.

I doubt the bolded part tbh. She never mentioned noticing it afterwards and Athena had commented on it already anyway, so I really don't see how Alette is trying to take credit for that.

It could be a bus after she noticed her buddy had slipped, sure. I think that's a good enough reason for why scum!her wouldn't vote Tuvy2 when it appears to be a coinflip between the two judging from her posts (other reason would be both Tuvy's are scum, in which case RIP the scumteam tbh).

5 hours ago, Alette said:

:GWchadMegaThink: frozenness is a scum tell in this game because they dropped their vote. I did proceed to tag both tuvy's for a read list which you failed to point out. I waited and decided to go for tuvy because the silence was alarming unlike corrobin.

Wouldn't dropping the vote actually make him less frozen in place?

You also failed to mention why Tuvy2 wasn't on your lynch list anymore.

5 hours ago, Alette said:

I'm starting to think that at least one of the middle voters on tuvy bussed him though. That was my thought at flip too because refa was getting pressured at the end.

Any thoughts on which of those middle voters would be scum then?

I'm at this weird point right now where I think some of Jiggly's points against Alette are good and I want to lynch her for it, but then a lot of other points feel like he's just trowing all the dirt he can think of against her hoping for a lynch on her (as opposed to actually trying to get a read on her). I think there's at least one scum in here, but I somewhat doubt Jiggly would stick to hardbussing his buddy after a scumflip D1, so probably not both. I also think Alette would fight back harder if it's a bus actually.

I think Jiggly is more likely to flip scum right now, so:

#Vote: fairyjigglypuff

[Athena_57]

8 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I'm at this weird point right now where I think some of Jiggly's points against Alette are good and I want to lynch her for it, but then a lot of other points feel like he's just trowing all the dirt he can think of against her hoping for a lynch on her (as opposed to actually trying to get a read on her). I think there's at least one scum in here, but I somewhat doubt Jiggly would stick to hardbussing his buddy after a scumflip D1, so probably not both. I also think Alette would fight back harder if it's a bus actually.

This. Also, with Alette I'm getting the feeling I disagree very very often, but don't really think it's scum intent?

[Athena_57]

##Vote: Fairyjigglypuff

[Bartozio]

11 minutes ago, Athena_57 said:

This. Also, with Alette I'm getting the feeling I disagree very very often, but don't really think it's scum intent?

I agree with this to some degree, which is what's weakening my scumread on her somewhat.

I feel stuff like her scumread on Tuvy2 suddenly dissapearing and her saying there's probably scum in the middle voters without any thought on who that is still looks bad though (the former moreso than the later).

[Killthestory]

5 hours ago, Shinori said:

FYI this was never actually a thing on SF until you and Yolo started stating it.

mafia is not a game where something doesn't exist if you don't state it does. vca is one of those things that is there whether you pointnit out or not.

that's like saying association reads were never there until we started stating it. there's always going to be associations, and it doesn't just pop into existence when a dummy like me says it does.

[Percivalé]

I have one more major life thing to take care of today and then I can finally focus on this game. I hope you're ready for me bois

[Shinori]

2 hours ago, Killthestory said:

mafia is not a game where something doesn't exist if you don't state it does. vca is one of those things that is there whether you pointnit out or not.

that's like saying association reads were never there until we started stating it. there's always going to be associations, and it doesn't just pop into existence when a dummy like me says it does.

I mean literally people haven't been specifically aiming to kill people for that sort of thing,  Like until yall have been on SF as of recent times I don't remember that ever being a thing that's looked for on SF or has really held ever any correlation to actually finding scum outside of one or two recent games.

[Killthestory]

10 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I mean literally people haven't been specifically aiming to kill people for that sort of thing,  Like until yall have been on SF as of recent times I don't remember that ever being a thing that's looked for on SF or has really held ever any correlation to actually finding scum outside of one or two recent games.

nobody specifically aims, but it's been found to be an incredibly accurate vca tell. this isn't just an sf thing. this is mafia wide where a lot of forums use said vca and other tells. like i said, people might not look into it, but it's always going to be present. the reason for this is typically if scum is lynched and scum didn't buss, they want to kill people who looked good on the wagon. if scum does get lynched and scum bussed, they want to kill people off wagon who looked good anyways. scum never wants to kill in their poe because vca later on is an absolute beast at catching wolves. sometimes it isn't even intentional, but it's a nuance a lot of people still follow.

it's like how the 3rd vote on a wagon is likelier to be scum than other votes. obviously it's different in every context, but it's been shown statistically to happen more than any other time. you guys might not know this, but it exists.

i know people who will do the opposite just to keep the unpredictability factor. however, like you just said, nobody on sf really cares except for me and yolo. yolo replaced out, and im pretty sure im not scum. id like to say my information is accurate.

[sup a]

I need more time to go through things in my head, and possibly look at the pace of Tuvy wagon.

[Killthestory]

2 minutes ago, weinerboy said:

I need more time to go through things in my head, and possibly look at the pace of Tuvy wagon.

the beginning of it looked sort of bad, but the middle and endpoints apart from the late lackluster votes looked pretty natural. considering the on wagon kill and general authentic vibe of the wagon, i'd say wolves didn't get much out of the tuvy lynch. 

[Killthestory]

On 9/21/2018 at 3:00 PM, SB. said:

End of Day 1 Votals
Tuvy (8): Alette, Fleet Feet!, Mackc2, Magnificence Incarnate, Athena_57, Refa, Bartozio, Killthestory
Killthestory (1): Tuvy2
Mackc2 (1): Omega.
Corrobin (1): Tuvy, 
Alette (1): RADicate 
Bartozio (1): Vi-astra
Magnificence Incarnate (1): Shinori
Not Voting: Corrobin, fairyjigglypuff, weinerbo

considering this i'd pick my scum at shinori corrobin radicate tuvy2, and a deepwolf possibility of fairlyjiggly that i don't want to get into today. obviously this isn't a functioning scumteam, but i can see shinori and corrobin as wolves off wagon (considering how shinori argued against basic vca lol)

mackc2 being the 3rd vote on wagon is iffy, but i've liked their content. alette i can see afking on a buddy, and i'll have to see where that push came from. same with fleet fleet, but idk i sort of liked his tone against me yesterday. sort of weak, but im biased. imo athena seeing the percieved scumslip felt almost like, really weird, but i like their postings from yesterday too. only refa marth and bart REALLY looked good on wagon imo, and i was on drugs.

[Flee Fleet!]

8 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

same with fleet fleet, but idk i sort of liked his tone against me yesterday.

What did I say against you yesterday again? Lol, forgot. Will check later I guess.

 

Anyways, have school tomorrow, and will be more occupied on Tuesday. Hopefully will be able to stay active in this game. Gtg sleep now bye.

 

 

[Shinori]

Yeah lynch me and prove you are retarded.

Why the fuck do I act the way I did WRT the Tuvy lynch at EoD as scum?

Also I'm an avid name killer or obv town killer you can ask literally anyone on SF.  I literally kill Prims every game I'm in with him if I roll scum.  Like if I'm scum here I kill Via or someone who was scum reading me.  Or I name kill omega.  I guess maybe refa goes into that list but normally he's not in a list of people I would 100% name kill.

[Shinori]

Your legit entire case/argument this day phase has been based on Mafia night kill actions and seem very poor, lackluster, and not well thought out.

[Snike]

at work so can't really respond much but I do have something to say:

idt Athena is ever scum here because

a) unless it's w/w wagons just letting Kts die instead of tuvy was the easier play to make

b) I'm pretty confident by tone and I usually have a good read on him.

So shading him for the d1 when no one else caught the slip is pretty ???.

I'll try to look at fjp later

 

[Killthestory]

23 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Your legit entire case/argument this day phase has been based on Mafia night kill actions and seem very poor, lackluster, and not well thought out.

what case are you even referring to? i'm organizing all my data as it stands, and i haven't even finished that. 

and no, it's not based on mafia night actions. i'm not sure how any of these posts warrant:

25 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Yeah lynch me and prove you are retarded.

Why the fuck do I act the way I did WRT the Tuvy lynch at EoD as scum?

Also I'm an avid name killer or obv town killer you can ask literally anyone on SF.  I literally kill Prims every game I'm in with him if I roll scum.  Like if I'm scum here I kill Via or someone who was scum reading me.  Or I name kill omega.  I guess maybe refa goes into that list but normally he's not in a list of people I would 100% name kill.

as an aside, self meta is quickly becoming the most frustrating defense in the world.