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[FE5] Project Exile - Thracia 776 Script and Menu Translation - FULLY COMPLETE AND RELEASED!

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8 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Question as somebody who's never played Thracia before: is uh.... the bishop in chapter 3 supposed to use the door key to get to the treasures and then help himself to the Meteor tome? In GBA rom hacks, a unit doing that is normally a sign that something has gone wrong in the hack's coding. 

That is entirely normal. That bishop just has a very specific AI to do this around turn 10! Welcome to Thracia. ?

Edited by Miacis

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11 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Question as somebody who's never played Thracia before: is uh.... the bishop in chapter 3 supposed to use the door key to get to the treasures and then help himself to the Meteor tome? In GBA rom hacks, a unit doing that is normally a sign that something has gone wrong in the hack's coding. 

Yes, that is actually the only reason he's there, lol. To screw you up using Meteor if you take too long. Enemies in this game also trade weapons and items within themselves, by the way. Oh, and since you're on Chapter 3 right now, let me warn you that Dagdar should have a few Vulneraries, and that you should fill Leif and Lithis' inventories with nothing but Swords, the Brave Axe, and either or both Scrolls while also leaving one of their 14 Inventory spaces empty.

Edited by DarkAdvent
Extremely minor typo.

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1 hour ago, Miacis said:

That is entirely normal. That bishop just has a very specific AI to do this around turn 10! Welcome to Thracia. ?

Well then. Interesting pickle I'm in. Was playing it slow because the RNG was not being nice and put me in some awkward situations. Get to puzzle out this one now. 

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30 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Well then. Interesting pickle I'm in. Was playing it slow because the RNG was not being nice and put me in some awkward situations. Get to puzzle out this one now. 

Yeah, he always starts doing it on a specific turn.  So you either want to capture him after he gets the items or kill him before he starts moving.

You'll also find that AI units might sometimes steal weapons and items from units they capture.  For example, in Chapter 4, the green units will always try to capture the enemies they fight (meaning if they defeat the enemies on their turn, they'll capture the enemies), and when they do they'll take the enemies' equipment and keep them captured until they escape.

It's actually really bad to have a captured unit on your person because they always incur stat debuffs; you only want to capture an enemy either if you don't want to kill them (such as Lifis in Chapter 2x) or you want to steal their inventory (which is really the only way to stay stocked on weaponry, 'cuz you're dirt poor for the most part).  The same applies to the enemy, and they'll always try to capture any of their unarmed enemies (so unarmed green and blue units).  This leads to an interesting tactic known as "capture baiting" where you basically send out a low-Con unarmed fodder unit (like Lara, who isn't a very good combatant and can't steal weapons from enemies as easily as Lifis can) within an enemy's melee range and let them get captured.  Because then the enemy will have lowered stats and are thus much easier to kill.

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Hey, long time lurker. Made an account just to say good job with the translation. Looks pretty good so far from what little I've played. You even took care of the whole pugi thing which bothered me to no end lol. It's to good to finally see a usable translation for this game after so many years.

Although I have one small complaint, regarding the scrolls. The scroll descriptions in this patch show their modifiers, however these seem to be hidden in the original Japanese version (I don't know Japanese so I am not entirely sure, but I don't see numbers).

1378427994_FireEmblem-Thraki776(J)(V.ROM)-190603-164625.png.aaf338a108eb68cac4b58c42cbf58d7f.png

 

104277378_FireEmblem-Thraki776(J)(V.ROM)-190603-164345.png.71241ce4f04b9bcfaa6a62c5ff071b4c.png

I think it would be nice if there was an option to hide the modifiers, at least on a first playthrough imo. I know this may sound silly, but I kind of want to experience the game blind with all its alleged craziness intact lol.

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8 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

Question as somebody who's never played Thracia before: is uh.... the bishop in chapter 3 supposed to use the door key to get to the treasures and then help himself to the Meteor tome? In GBA rom hacks, a unit doing that is normally a sign that something has gone wrong in the hack's coding. 

Yes, that is normal, and many other stuff like that is commonplace in Thracia, such as enemy controlled dancers.

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6 hours ago, DukeBox said:

I think it would be nice if there was an option to hide the modifiers, at least on a first playthrough imo. I know this may sound silly, but I kind of want to experience the game blind with all its alleged craziness intact lol.

One of our goals in localization was to make the game less impenetrable, and this change in particular (showing the scrolls' effect) has been extremely well received. It's not out of the question for localizations to change things slightly to make things more accessible, and even veteran players like Mekkah were relieved that they didn't have to keep a tab open with the SF page for the scroll stats.

Please note that no gameplay changes were made - all we did was add more info in the UI and some more hints in the game's dialogue. You'll still get to experience all the game's craziness, you'll just have a more informative UI while you're experiencing it.

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11 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Yeah, he always starts doing it on a specific turn. 

Unexpected, I thought it was either when someone opens the left treasure room door or someone attacks or approaches him. Since that's how far I progressed the two times I tried this chapter (the failure was b/c reinforcements smashed the houses). Must be more challenging if you don't let Dagdar and Eyvel help out b/c anti-Jagenism.

 

On the names side of things, looking at the Romanji, my minor questioning of the first cleric's name is erased. I thought it could have been Sappho- as in the ancient Greek female poet; nope. Hope IS borrows it in the future though.

I like the scroll stat reveals, although it'd be a little less meta if it didn't provide exact boost values. "Modifies a unit's growths. Greatly increases HP, increases Str, and decreases Luck." Or something like "Modifies a unit's growths: +++HP ++Str - - Lck". But I am by no means complaining, the voice you should read this in is a chill and reasonable one.

 

First Heal in the game was a miss for me.?

And Ys for the Chapter 2 village name?? ("Y"s and "I"s are phonetically interchangeable I know and this is probably a real world place being referenced.) Well given some dye he has been using recently, maybe Ronan is Adol's alias- but damn he got ruined here. 

 

And again, thanks for this tremendous translation effort! Only four fights in, and I am really enjoying this.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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Hey Cirosan!

Congratulations on finishing the project! You and your team have made a valuable contribution to the fanbase.

Edited by Integrity
i didn't actually change anything i'm just trying to figure a bug out do not be frightened

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https://translate.google.gr/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ja&tl=en&text=プージ

プージ is pronounced as "Pūji"

Why did you arbitrarily decide to rename this to a shitty and unpronounceable name like "Bhuj"? How can you say that "localization is about making the game accessible" to deflect criticism about the change to the crusader scrolls and then rename this weapon to something like this? Quite contradictory I think.  Also there are multiple characters that have the wrong names instead of the official ones from the CYL list from FEH. Maybe this is about what clicks right with you and not some "grand game design principle" that you are following.

Edited by Nickdos

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3 minutes ago, Nickdos said:

https://translate.google.gr/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ja&tl=en&text=プージ

プージ is pronounced as "Pūji"

Why did you arbitrarily decide to rename this to a shitty and unpronounceable name like "Bhuj"? How can you say that "localization is about making the game accessible" to deflect criticism about the change to the crusader scrolls and then rename this weapon to something like this? Also there are multiple characters that have the wrong names instead of the official ones from the CYL list from FEH.

Cirosan owes you an explanation just as much as you owe all of us an explanation for not getting off your lazy ass and learning Japanese and ASM to translate the game yourself lol

The game came out 20 years ago. Some of us have been waiting for over a literal decade to see this game in English and the moment it hits the first thing you're gonna do is complain? You are the pinnacle of unlikable entitlement.

Edited by Kysafen

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1 minute ago, Kysafen said:

Cirosan owes you an explanation just as much as you owe all of us an explanation for not getting off your lazy ass and learning Japanese and ASM to translate the game yourself lol

Very off topic

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Just now, Nickdos said:

Very off topic

If you think you have a superior translation job you'd like to offer, let me give you some advice:

Get over yourself.

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3 minutes ago, Kysafen said:

Cirosan owes you an explanation just as much as you owe all of us an explanation for not getting off your lazy ass and learning Japanese and ASM to translate the game yourself lol

The game came out 20 years ago. Some of us have been waiting for over a literal decade to see this game in English and the moment it hits the first thing you're gonna do is complain? You are the pinnacle of unlikable entitlement.

"Entitlement"

Oh here we go...

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1 minute ago, Nickdos said:

"Entitlement"

Oh here we go...

Yup. Cirosan and team were the ones who put in the hundreds of hours of effort and gave us a translation job.

And you're nothing. You're just the peanut gallery who complains and is never content no matter how good it is.

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Looks like feedback that people have been repeating since this "project" started isn't well received with the sensitive snowflakes here.

1 minute ago, Kysafen said:

Yup. Cirosan and team were the ones who put in the hundreds of hours of effort and gave us a translation job.

And you're nothing. You're just the peanut gallery who complains and is never content no matter how good it is.

Keep up the personal insults and off topic remarks, it's the best you can do.

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16 minutes ago, Nickdos said:

Looks like feedback that people have been repeating since this "project" started isn't well received with the sensitive snowflakes here.

Keep up the personal insults and off topic remarks, it's the best you can do.

A real "snowflake" is someone so lazy, weak-willed and undisciplined to learn Japanese somehow finding something to complain about when someone comes along and does the work of translating it into English for them.

I could wax poetic about what a "Bhuj" actually is, why it fits, but it'd fall on deaf ears. No justification good enough. No point at which you'd be okay. All you're doing is coming up with excuses to be dissatisfied. Because you'll never, ever be happy. And that's just sad.

Edited by Kysafen

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let's simmer this down, there's no need for what's going on

@Kysafen you're coming on very strong, bring it back. I recognize frustration, but there's a lot of name-calling that is unnecessary

@Nickdos kysafen was responding directly to you - it seems odd to call that out as being off-topic. either way, be respectful to the people who put effort into the project. feedback needs to be productive. talking about the translation decisions and why they were made is one thing, but calling out the translation decisions in that way was not productive or respectful

 

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1 hour ago, Nickdos said:

https://translate.google.gr/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ja&tl=en&text=プージ

プージ is pronounced as "Pūji"

Why did you arbitrarily decide to rename this to a shitty and unpronounceable name like "Bhuj"? How can you say that "localization is about making the game accessible" to deflect criticism about the change to the crusader scrolls and then rename this weapon to something like this? Quite contradictory I think.  Also there are multiple characters that have the wrong names instead of the official ones from the CYL list from FEH. Maybe this is about what clicks right with you and not some "grand game design principle" that you are following.

Because we localize names based on more research than a 5 seconds Google Translate. The name appears as ージ (Buji) in other Kaga titles, as a Prf Axe with similar artwork. It's likely to have been a mistake, as nothing really would suggest that "Pugi" has any meaning, whereas a "Buji" spelling would suggest it comes from actual existing weapons. There is nothing arbitrary about this.

The goal of translation and localization being to convey meaning rather than 1:1 words, this seemed, and still seems, like the most appropriate localization, as opposed to the nonsense word you are suggesting.

As for CYL names, I'll refer you to the OP. If you want a more detailed explanation as to why the CYL names for FE5 are not a credible source, feel free to join the Discord server (linked in the OP) where I can talk your ear off about it.

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18 hours ago, Cirosan said:

One of our goals in localization was to make the game less impenetrable, and this change in particular (showing the scrolls' effect) has been extremely well received. It's not out of the question for localizations to change things slightly to make things more accessible, and even veteran players like Mekkah were relieved that they didn't have to keep a tab open with the SF page for the scroll stats.

Please note that no gameplay changes were made - all we did was add more info in the UI and some more hints in the game's dialogue. You'll still get to experience all the game's craziness, you'll just have a more informative UI while you're experiencing it.

I'm not sure I really agree that this is a necessary change. Character growth rates are still hidden, and there is a reason they're hidden in every single game. Part of the fun is the randomness of every single playthrough of a FE game. You never know what the RNG will give you. Spelling out what everything does kind of detracts from that IMO. If I wanted to min-max, I'd play Disgaea.

 

If it wasn't originally in the game to begin with, I'm not sure it should be added. No offense, but I feel changes like this are 'beyond the scope' of a simple fan translation.

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1 hour ago, DukeBox said:

I'm not sure I really agree that this is a necessary change. Character growth rates are still hidden, and there is a reason they're hidden in every single game. Part of the fun is the randomness of every single playthrough of a FE game. You never know what the RNG will give you. Spelling out what everything does kind of detracts from that IMO. If I wanted to min-max, I'd play Disgaea.

Let me pose these questions, then.

What if the descriptions were cryptic and mundane, not so much as even hinting at what the scrolls do?  Would you leave them as-is, or would you change them?

In my opinion, an item whose purpose is only known by hackers and walkthrough readers is an item that is flawed by design.  I wouldn't personally tell players exactly what it does, but I wouldn't give it a mundane description that's probably just a redundant lore drop, either.  I'd try to hint at it; for example, Ced's scroll would be described "Blesses the carrier with the swiftness and magical power of the crusader Ced".

Plus, with this game having the reputation it has, and being in the mindset of Cirosan and the other translators who all want to encourage other players to give the game a try, it's understandable that they'd want to make information more overt.  And to add to that, the original Japanese script may not have made those item descriptions meta, but there are still points where they broke the fourth wall with bracketed text, such as when Leif was talking about [Escape] with Fergus (you can literally see the brackets in the Japanese script in this pdf on, like, page 5), so I don't see how it's unfair to just translate all vague and mundane texts into meta texts when even the original script is inconsistent in this regard.

I'll also say the case of the character growths is different because a unit's stats and growths are much less subtle than the crusader scrolls, and units are kind of the main body through which you interact with the game.  You don't play as the scrolls, you play as the units in Leif's army, and their value means the difference between victory or defeat, while the scrolls could waste away in the convoy the entire game without you even so much as glancing at them.  Yes, the game's more difficult to play if you don't use them, but it's substantially more difficult if you constantly use units that are bad at combat like Lara while ignoring vital units like Leif.

 

Localizations aren't just about translating the game.  They're meant to make a game more digestible for a greater audience.  Thracia was made with only a portion of gamers in Japan in mind, while this fan-localization was made to be for all FE fans who want to enjoy the series in its entirety, many of whom were introduced when the series was much more accessible than it was back in the Japan-only days.

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Just to be clear, the goal of this project never was to be "a simple fan translation", but a proper localization effort, with accessibility intended as one of its objectives. DukeBox, I understand your point of view (I really do!) but from the point of view of a modern-day localization, Thracia's obscurity kinda had to be addressed. Making those growth rates visible just was part of that, along with a few other small hints for map gimmick or particularly obscure events.

Was it absolutely necessary? No, but judging by the overwhelmingly positive responses of players to our accessibility changes, I'd say it definitely was a good choice.

Edited by Miacis

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Just some constructive criticism here... Making the game less cryptic is one thing, but is inserting long-winded paragraphs blatantly spelling out what strategies to use really the way to do it?

FE5 is still supposed to be a SRPG at the end of the day, no matter what anyone's opinion of video game accessibility is. Deciding and realizing how to overcome the challenges presented--and even creating contingencies for when things go horribly wrong--is an innate part of the genre. Warning the player of warps to kill rooms is one thing, but telling them where they are positioned and how to circumvent them feels like an insult to their intelligence. Just knowing of their existence is enough to plan for unfortunate situations, but the script clearly states to just avoid certain positions on the map and use your own warp magic to turn the tides. There's no thought process on the player's part anymore; the game just allowed the player to cheat by giving them all the answers.

Just because they were originally implemented in the most awful way possible doesn't mean the traps should be practically invalidated for the sake of "accessibility." Both situations are extremes of the worst kind, and I feel like it would be an easy fix to just be less verbose with the creative liberties.

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While I understand the sentiment, I will say that it is a bit disingenuous to qualify this statement:
"we should not linger for too long near doors, on staircases, or in narrow corridors"
 as "telling them where they are positioned" " clearly states to just avoid certain positions on the map" "the traps [are] practically invalidated "

Here's why. This map has all the warp tiles on ch24x:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.54186aaace16574366a55e805d9defb1.png

You may notice that Augustus's very specific advice covers... 80% of cases, and some of them are kinda out there, like the pair under the 5 Berserkers.

Now let's turn this around, and instead of analyzing Augustus's advice while already knowing where the tiles are, we analyze it when we don't have the map already. I mean, if you're playing with a map, it's not like our little hint has any bearing on your experience.

Here's the areas Augustus describes in his text, layered over the basic map:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.84b7c9c6a68ab537150cda48c7aa67f0.png

Now, I don't know about you. It could just be me. But uh.... that looks like a solid half of the map to me.

So, do tell, as a new player, one who hasn't had the chance to practice this map a bunch and doesn't have the map open on the side anyways, would you rather:
- Someone gives you a very general idea of areas to avoid grouping into, so that you know, when you inevitably runs on those tiles, you can see a pattern, learn from it, and adapt your strategy?
- Aren't given any indication, have to trial-error what looks for all intents and purposes like random bs, and aren't really learning much, just memorizing tiles?

Note that you still have to figure shit out, and you're still gonna have to deal, on the spot, with a lot of poorly placed tiles, even in scenario #1. What's "an insult to their intelligence ", and will require "no thought process on the player's part" is just using a map. And uh, with scenario #2, let me tell you that 90% of players will just go and look up a map, because frustration be like that.

Also like, if we can take anything from horror games, it's that tension is established when the player has a general idea of where/when bad shit happens, but not exactly where/when. Random jump scares with no build up or pattern, however, tend to fare poorly at keeping the audience's attention.

Edited by Miacis

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'figure shit out' doesn't sound like the right kind of description of a problem that is 100% trial and error

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