Team Order affects AI Movement Sometimes?

[shadowofchaos]

I have... never... had this happen to me before.

I was stumped why I was able to get a near clear before.

And all I did was change my team order to have the unit positions be more convenient for restarting.

And... well this happened.

[XRay]

That is really interesting. I wonder how the team order affects the AI. The red mage pony spawned like half way through the battle too instead of at the beginning, so I am not sure if it "remembers" your starting position even though it is not there yet.

Edited October 5, 2018 by XRay

[shadowofchaos]

Apparently this post outlines this information I just ran into. The "Tiebreak" section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/9618wg/ai_manipulation_101_chase_targeting/

[XRay]

45 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Apparently this post outlines this information I just ran into. The "Tiebreak" section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/9618wg/ai_manipulation_101_chase_targeting/

That is pretty neat. So if all else being equal, the member on the team that is later in the order will be targeted.

[Johann]

5 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Apparently this post outlines this information I just ran into. The "Tiebreak" section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/9618wg/ai_manipulation_101_chase_targeting/

Woah, I hadn't seen that thread before. Some pretty fascinating details, like how the AI doesn't factor in specials or deflects, damage reduction (ie: Divine Tyrfing), or whether or not they'd die to Vantage.

[Garlyle]

I wonder if you were able to reproduce these. Just because on this map I had the same thing happening with that red tome cavalry unit, and that was game changing for me. I felt like I was doing the exact same thing as I did before, didn't even change party order iirc, yet the outcome was one of these 2. I was thinking there might be a small rng on the ai part for this.

[Humanoid]

2 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

I wonder if you were able to reproduce these. Just because on this map I had the same thing happening with that red tome cavalry unit, and that was game changing for me. I felt like I was doing the exact same thing as I did before, didn't even change party order iirc, yet the outcome was one of these 2. I was thinking there might be a small rng on the ai part for this.

The idea behind tiebreakers such as the party order is so that they wouldn't have to resort to RNG. Party order being the final tiebreaker ensures that the result is deterministic even when everything else is equal.

In your case, I'd be more inclined to believe it's the result of minor stat changes, perhaps as a result of the order you move your units potentially resulting in some spurs or smokes or whatever being applied in some cases and not in others. I sometimes find myself screwing this up when doing the same thing on the same turn as in previous attempts, but in a different order within the turn.

[Landmaster]

I believe PheonixMaster1 has talked about this before, though I never understood exactly what makes the AI do what. I know it has something to do with stats and why of your Units the AI knows it can kill but I still don't totally understand it~

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Landmaster said:

I believe PheonixMaster1 has talked about this before, though I never understood exactly what makes the AI do what. I know it has something to do with stats and why of your Units the AI knows it can kill but I still don't totally understand it~

The more potential damage the enemy can do to your unit, the more likely the enemy will chase it. The closer your unit is to the enemy, the more likely the enemy will chase it; distance is measured in turns rather than spaces, so melee cavalry that is three spaces away will take 1 turn to reach you while infantry will take 2.

For each turn away, you modify damage potential by decreasing it by 5. The enemy will go after the unit with the highest modified damage potential.

[Landmaster]

44 minutes ago, XRay said:

The more potential damage the enemy can do to your unit, the more likely the enemy will chase it. The closer your unit is to the enemy, the more likely the enemy will chase it; distance is measured in turns rather than spaces, so melee cavalry that is three spaces away will take 1 turn to reach you while infantry will take 2.

For each turn away, you modify damage potential by decreasing it by 5. The enemy will go after the unit with the highest modified damage potential.

That's pretty useful, especially the calculating distance via turns more than spaces~

[Ice Dragon]

14 hours ago, Johann said:

Woah, I hadn't seen that thread before. Some pretty fascinating details, like how the AI doesn't factor in specials or deflects, damage reduction (ie: Divine Tyrfing), or whether or not they'd die to Vantage.

A lot of these can be easily explained as being "hard to predict" conditional effects. "Hard" not so much for a computer to perform the prediction, but to tell the AI exactly how much they should actually care about the probability that those effects will be in play on arrival.

For example, the cooldown value of a Special skill when the unit reaches their target is not immediately predictable. Similarly, Vantage might become active or become inactive by the time the unit arrives (even if becoming inactive is technically impossible for teams lacking healing skills).