Jump to content

How canonically strong are these characters? - Day 13 (Tailtiu, Ninian, Morgan)


Recommended Posts

On 24/10/2018 at 4:39 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Don't worry. I'm not done yet :^_^: I just haven't found the time to sit down for this one. 

But thanks. I'm happy my effort is getting missed when its gone! 

Do you have something in mind ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 195
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Wow, I didn't update for almost two weeks. That wasn't exactly my intention. 

So lets do some big names to make up for it. 

Camus: 9,5/10

The original villainous boyscout. Time and again the game tells us how strong, capable and noble Camus is. He's supposedly Dohlr's best general and their biggest asset in the war. He's so good at his job that Medeus couldn't kill him after he lets Nyna escape. Does he live up to the hype completely? Not really, but that's because the Shadow Dragon format holds him back. He noticeably doesn't achieve anything on screen in the original game but I think that at some point you just have to take the story's word for it that someone is oh, so amazing. 

Later games do more to give Camus his hype. The Archanean saga has him destroy a whole battalion by himself, fight the dragon Burzark and even Medeus himself(even if that's a plothole since Medeus can't leave his castle). Later the strength obsessed obsessed Rigel makes ''Zeke'' a general within a year even if he's just some random nobody with Amnesia to them. This is partly because he's close to Rudolf but its Rigel so his power probably did a lot to land him the job as well. 

Ike: 10/10

I could give Ike a lower score but the plot doesn't want me to. Ike is said to be an amazing fighter and has plenty of times were he shows he's every bit as perfect as the plot says he is. Ike has been trained by the best swordsmen of Tellius and fighting seems to be his passion. Because he's not a lord he's not distracted by having to rule and can thus train all day which he's implied to do often. 

What speaks most in favor of Ike is how he compares to his competition on Tellius. Tellius has a lot of powerful figures and Ike is shown to be either their equal or a lot better than them. Ashnard is an infamous warrior king and according to Brom it was Ike who struck him down, the Black knight is a very strong antagonist and an easy 9,5 but Ike beats him, if Tibarn is roughly equal to the Black Knight then Ike would logically be stronger than him. At the end Ike gets to spar with Canaighis who frightens the black knight which shows that even the most powerful (non dragon) Laguz king is Ike's peer. 

Alm: 9/10

Like Ike Alm seems to fall into the ''Hector'' half of the lord archtype. He's a warrior first and a ruler second. Alm is depicted as a frontline soldier who personally charges into battle with his men. On one of those occasion he managed to dual both Berkut and Fernant at the same time. While growing up Alm received training from one of the best fighters on the continent which seems to have paid off. 

I don't believe there has ever been a time where Alm was shown to struggle against an opponent or was driven into retreat. His most regular foe is Berkut and in all three of their fights Alm managed to defeat him. Berkut might be a bit of a loser but it also shows that Alm is quite powerful. Unlike Celica's group he doesn't seem intimidated by Jedah or any other enemy. The biggest mark against Alm is that Echoes format prevents him from achieving much. Very few bosses are depicted as powerful or important so it usually isn't an impressive feat when Alm takes them down. That said the story says Alm is really powerful and I'm willing to take their word for it since he does personally finish off Duma, fights Berkut three times and is otherwise depicted as a capable fighter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camus oughta be equal to even Ike. Cause that moment where he took down an entire battalion by himself just proves it. 

Not only that, but unlike Ike, Camus needed no blessing from god, or Holy Blood like Alm to get his might. No, Camus was that strong, and that strength was through his own merit and skill. Medeus actually compared Camus to ANRI, a legend that Medeus has some underlying respect for, despite the hatred for humans.

However, two things. Camus didn't fight Medeus. He was already exhausted and devoid of his weapons. Also, it isn't that Medeus isn't capable of leaving the castle. He's just unable to use his full powers outside of it. 

Spoiler
Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited by omegaxis1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camus is inconsistent. His FE1/11 showing, he's arguably(I actually believe it's explicitly stated) the strongest Knight in Archanea, and he'd be an easy 9.5. By FE2 and FE3, he's downgraded quite a bit. Not to the point where he's weak, or even anywhere below above average, but the "HOLY SHIT, CAMUS IS HERE"  aspect of his character is almost completely gone, and he's not treated as some borderline physical god. He's more around an 8.5 in these instances. I'll average him out to a 9/10.

Ike's a 9.8/10(Breaking my standards for scaling here). He wrestles with the most physically powerful Laguz for fun, and all he does is train and cultivate mass. His mere presence can stop a civil war. He pretty handily defeats Zelgius/TBK by the end of the journey we see him go on, and Zelgius is basically Tellius' version of Camus. He then goes on to fight the most powerful physical being period in Tellius, the most powerful Mage in Tellius, and then he takes down potentially the most powerful being we've seen in a Fire Emblem game. All without stopping. Admittedly he takes some of them down with help from Yune, but everyone besides Ashera herself was also getting help(From Ashera). The only thing really standing in Ike's way from being a 10/10 world ender is that he doesn't have the sheer destructive or mystical capabilities. He's a dude with a sword. He's a dude with a sword. Possibly the single strongest dude with a sword in the franchise, but it only takes him so far.

Alm's a 9/10. He was born into a dynasty that was based on martial prowess, then he destroyed it and built a better dynasty based on his martial prowess, so much that 2000 years later, his country still worships him as a beacon of martial strength. But he had a lot of help, and the feats we see of him aren't super crazy. The craziest thing we see him do is kill a melting dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Camus is inconsistent. His FE1/11 showing, he's arguably(I actually believe it's explicitly stated) the strongest Knight in Archanea, and he'd be an easy 9.5. By FE2 and FE3, he's downgraded quite a bit. Not to the point where he's weak, or even anywhere below above average, but the "HOLY SHIT, CAMUS IS HERE"  aspect of his character is almost completely gone, and he's not treated as some borderline physical god. He's more around an 8.5 in these instances. I'll average him out to a 9/10.

 

You have to remember that in both Gaiden and SoV, Camus has just woken up after washing up all the way from Archanea to Valentia. He must have taken serious injuries that would definitely have left him in a condition where he hasn't regained his full strength, especially when he lost most of his memories. Some skills would obviously retain, but not to the point that he would be at his peak. And in FE3/12, if he has recovered most of his strength, he wouldn't actually show it. That'd be an easy way for Camus to raise red flags about his identity. 

11 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Ike's a 9.8/10(Breaking my standards for scaling here). He wrestles with the most physically powerful Laguz for fun, and all he does is train and cultivate mass. His mere presence can stop a civil war. He pretty handily defeats Zelgius/TBK by the end of the journey we see him go on, and Zelgius is basically Tellius' version of Camus. He then goes on to fight the most powerful physical being period in Tellius, the most powerful Mage in Tellius, and then he takes down potentially the most powerful being we've seen in a Fire Emblem game. All without stopping. Admittedly he takes some of them down with help from Yune, but everyone besides Ashera herself was also getting help(From Ashera). The only thing really standing in Ike's way from being a 10/10 world ender is that he doesn't have the sheer destructive or mystical capabilities. He's a dude with a sword. He's a dude with a sword. Possibly the single strongest dude with a sword in the franchise, but it only takes him so far.

1

Should point out that in those scenarios, Ike is aided by others that were also blessed by Yune. Zelgius was the only one that Ike fought one on one, the others were people helping Ike. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You have to remember that in both Gaiden and SoV, Camus has just woken up after washing up all the way from Archanea to Valentia. He must have taken serious injuries that would definitely have left him in a condition where he hasn't regained his full strength, especially when he lost most of his memories. Some skills would obviously retain, but not to the point that he would be at his peak. And in FE3/12, if he has recovered most of his strength, he wouldn't actually show it. That'd be an easy way for Camus to raise red flags about his identity.

Yeah, except this is all inference and assumption. We're never told that this is why Camus suddenly isn't swinging his dick around and taking armies out by himself. He just is, then he isn't. And the "Oh, he is still recovering" might be explainable in FE2, but by FE3 he seemingly hasn't recovered at all from FE2.

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Should point out that in those scenarios, Ike is aided by others that were also blessed by Yune. Zelgius was the only one that Ike fought one on one, the others were people helping Ike. 

Based on how the last fight turns out, Ike canonically bests Zelgius, and then goes on to be the primary person to fight(And take out) Ashera. In fact, Yune seems confident that he's the one most capable of doing so, even though he's the only person in the army who had canonically fought in the tower up until then.

Even after squaring off with somebody roughly as strong as Tibarn and beating him, and even if you want to discount him fighting against Dheginsea and Sephiran because he had help, Ike should still be considered the single strongest person in the tower.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, except this is all inference and assumption. We're never told that this is why Camus suddenly isn't swinging his dick around and taking armies out by himself. He just is, then he isn't. And the "Oh, he is still recovering" might be explainable in FE2, but by FE3 he seemingly hasn't recovered at all from FE2.

 

As I mentioned, if he started to swing his dick around like that, it would raise red flags. Like, if he started to fight armies of enemies by himself and beat them, with a Grustian spearsmanship as people noted, then Camus would easily be outed to be alive. And "Sirius" says to his conversation with Belf that if Camus was revealed to be alive, Grust would rally around him as the symbol and try to perform a rebellion that would spill more blood. It makes perfect sense why Camus would hold back most of his powers. And even despite that, Sirius is one of the strongest units in that game. 

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Based on how the last fight turns out, Ike canonically bests Zelgius, and then goes on to be the primary person to fight(And take out) Ashera. In fact, Yune is confident that he's the one most capable of doing so, even though he's the only person in the army who had canonically fought in the tower up until then.

Even after off with somebody roughly as strong as Tibarn, and even if you want to discount him fighting against Dheginsea and Sephiran because he had help, Ike should still be considered the single stronger person in the tower.

Which is debatable. He fights, but because of how the tower could have literally anyone, Ike might never have even fought against Dheginsea. It could have been Kurthnaga, whom Dheginsea would not fight back. And Micaiah could have been the one to have fought Sephiran, who would not fight against her. Even in regards to Ashera, he only gets the final blow canonically, but this only works because Yune transfers all her power to Ike to unleash onto Ashera, but that honestly would not make him suddenly god tier or at the same level.

Honestly, the fact that Greil got his strength on his own, but Ike needed god's help just to reach the same level kind of undermine's Ike's abilities a bit to me. In that case, it's really not different from Holy Blood by that point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Honestly, the fact that Greil got his strength on his own, but Ike needed god's help just to reach the same level kind of undermine's Ike's abilities a bit to me. In that case, it's really not different from Holy Blood by that point. 

I'm really confused by this.

Was it stated anywhere that Zelgius was blessed by Ashera/wearing his blessed armor when he fought Greil? Because EVERYTHING we know about Ashera's blessing means that people blessed by her would be completely impervious to harm, unless the person they fought against wielded a similarly blessed weapon.

All Yune does is bless the weapons so that her army can deal with those blessed by Ashera. They put them on even playing fields, and as Zelgius dies, he says Ike's skill is equal to Greil's in his prime.

There should be no "Well, Ike's not as good as Greil because he needed to have his weapon blessed to beat Zelgius" argument, because from Zelgius' own mouth, Ike is just as good as Greil was at his height.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm really confused by this.

Was it stated anywhere that Zelgius was blessed by Ashera/wearing his blessed armor when he fought Greil? Because EVERYTHING we know about Ashera's blessing means that people blessed by her would be completely impervious to harm, unless the person they fought against wielded a similarly blessed weapon.

All Yune does is bless the weapons so that her army can deal with those blessed by Ashera. They put them on even playing fields, and as Zelgius dies, he says Ike's skill is equal to Greil's in his prime.

There should be no "Well, Ike's not as good as Greil because he needed to have his weapon blessed to beat Zelgius" argument, because from Zelgius' own mouth, Ike is just as good as Greil was at his height.

Remember that Ike promotes to Vanguard because of Yune:

Quote

Yune: How do you feel?

Ike: …Strong. Like I can take on anyone.

Yune: Wow, you’re very confident for a being that can die! Let’s see… You go with this team.

Also, on the lowest difficulty, Yune's blessing gives a +5 boost to all stats. Either this is purely gameplay and not actually part of the story, we don't know. Someone I know on reddit certainly loves to bring up the +5 stat boost every time when talking about the goddess and Ike.

Zelgius has two advantages that gave him his strength:

  1. Years of training under Greil and then training by himself.
  2. Being Branded, which is said to give some unique abilities, as well as longevity that allows him to maintain the peak of his strength for years to come. 

So Zelgius and Greil earned their strength through their hard work, and Zelgius through genetics, whereas the only reason Ike ever closed the gap to his father was through the power of a goddess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised people put Ike at 10. That score should only be reserved for characters like Ashera, Lopytr, Anankos, Grima, etc. IMO. Not even characters like Nergal, Deghinsea should be put on such a high pedestal, let alone Ike who is only peak human power. 

Also, Ike only reached the BK and Tibarn's level of power by the start of part 4. He wasn't always so strong. Even if you defeat BK with Ike in part 3, the BK claims Ike is still not on his level.

Spoiler

Black Knight defeated by Ike

Black Knight: Impressive. You have indeed begun to walk in Gawain’s footsteps.
Ike: Do you admit defeat, then?
Black Knight: No, but I have finished taking your measure. You have made great progress, but still fall short.
Ike: The next time we meet, it will be for the last time. I will avenge my father!
Black Knight: Continue to train, Ike, son of Gawain. We will meet again.

(Black Knight retreats)

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

Ike's a 9.8/10(Breaking my standards for scaling here). He wrestles with the most physically powerful Laguz for fun, and all he does is train and cultivate mass. His mere presence can stop a civil war. He pretty handily defeats Zelgius/TBK by the end of the journey we see him go on, and Zelgius is basically Tellius' version of Camus. He then goes on to fight the most powerful physical being period in Tellius, the most powerful Mage in Tellius, and then he takes down potentially the most powerful being we've seen in a Fire Emblem game. All without stopping. Admittedly he takes some of them down with help from Yune, but everyone besides Ashera herself was also getting help(From Ashera). The only thing really standing in Ike's way from being a 10/10 world ender is that he doesn't have the sheer destructive or mystical capabilities. He's a dude with a sword. He's a dude with a sword. Possibly the single strongest dude with a sword in the franchise, but it only takes him so far.

 

Kurthnaga is canonically stronger than Ike. So Ike isn't the strongest character who goes in the tower because Kurthnaga is forced deployed. 

Spoiler

Kurthnaga vs Ashera

Ashera: Ah, son of the dragon king… You may be the greatest among the enfleshed, but you are no match for me.
Kurth: Goddess Ashera, please listen to me. We know that we are clearly imperfect, but you, unnaturally created of pure order… Might that not be considered an imperfection?
Ashera: No, I am perfect. Free of emotion, I have no doubts. Therefore I commit no errors.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camus: 8.5/10 One of the strongest dude on the Archanean continent, but I felt that he got weaker in later entries . My score is all of his appearances averaged.

Ike: 8.9/10 The one of the strongest characters in the series, but only being human stops him from reaching the 9s. It's not like he can destroy the world by himself, unlike the super-dragons in the series.

Alm 8.4/10 While defeating Duma and Rudolf is impressive. I see him as one of the weaker lords in the series, I guess due to the lack of powerful individuals in the Valentia continent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Remember that Ike promotes to Vanguard because of Yune:

I'm not sure how much I would attribute a promotion as something "Bestowed upon them by somebody else". Technically true, but how is this different from... almost any other Lord? A lot of Lords go through this. Alm has his promotion handed to him in almost exactly the same way. Any Lord who uses sacred items to promote are effectively going through the same things, and I think a lot of them even use the same "Wow I feel so powerful now" after promoting as well.

These items and blessings might be tapping into the potential of the person, but it's not just granting them power as far as we know.

And to top it all off... Why does this even matter anymore? There's 0 indication that the power Ike got just goes away once the game is over. It's his power, regardless if he was tapping deeper into his own, or if Yune gave him the power. Ike is just this strong now.

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, on the lowest difficulty, Yune's blessing gives a +5 boost to all stats. Either this is purely gameplay and not actually part of the story, we don't know. Someone I know on reddit certainly loves to bring up the +5 stat boost every time when talking about the goddess and Ike.

Zelgius has two advantages that gave him his strength:

  1. Years of training under Greil and then training by himself.
  2. Being Branded, which is said to give some unique abilities, as well as longevity that allows him to maintain the peak of his strength for years to come. 

So Zelgius and Greil earned their strength through their hard work, and Zelgius through genetics, whereas the only reason Ike ever closed the gap to his father was through the power of a goddess.

I think the +5 to stats is purely an anti-frustration deal. Explicitly we just know that Yune's blessing allows people to harm others who have been gifted with Ashera's blessing.

Again, Zelgius commends Ike's SKILL when Ike defeats him, which Ike entirely earned through hard work. Could Ike have beaten Zelgius without the power up given to him by Yune? Maybe, maybe not, but there's 0 indication that he became a better swordsman from it. Ike says that he memorized Zelgius's sword style and incorporated the good bits in with what he learned from Greil, so I feel like the "Zelgius and Greil got to where they are through hard work while Ike didn't" is kind of a disingenuous argument.

I feel like this is an argument that will just go around in circles.

42 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

 

  Hide contents

Kurthnaga vs Ashera

Ashera: Ah, son of the dragon king… You may be the greatest among the enfleshed, but you are no match for me.
Kurth: Goddess Ashera, please listen to me. We know that we are clearly imperfect, but you, unnaturally created of pure order… Might that not be considered an imperfection?
Ashera: No, I am perfect. Free of emotion, I have no doubts. Therefore I commit no errors.

 

So, as far as I know, Serenes Forest is the only place that says "Greatest". Because the references I've found have all said "You may be great among the enfleshed", not "Greatest among the enfleshed". Admittedly this is just two other places, but it's not a conversation that seems all that well archived on the internet. I don't know if there's an English version of Kurthnaga vs. Ashera on Youtube to reference since I can't find one, and I'm not about to go replay RD to confirm one line of dialogue, but there's a HUGE difference there.

I wouldn't rule it out, since, you know, Kurthnaga can casually level landscapes while Ike's a dude with a sword, but I'm curious.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm not sure how much I would attribute a promotion as something "Bestowed upon them by somebody else". Technically true, but how is this different from... almost any other Lord? A lot of Lords go through this. Alm has his promotion handed to him in almost exactly the same way. Any Lord who uses sacred items to promote are effectively going through the same things, and I think a lot of them even use the same "Wow I feel so powerful now" after promoting as well.

These items and blessings might be tapping into the potential of the person, but it's not just granting them power as far as we know.

And to top it all off... Why does this even matter anymore? There's 0 indication that the power Ike got just goes away once the game is over. It's his power, regardless if he was tapping deeper into his own, or if Yune gave him the power. Ike is just this strong now.

Not quite. Promotions don't actually regard the actual power boost unless it is in conjunction with the story. Yune blessing them into a promotion is in regards to how story-wise, Yune can bless people to become stronger. She did the same to both Sothe and Micaiah. Sothe claimed that he could beat Skrimir at arm wrestling with that power, and Yune claimed with that power boost to Micaiah, Micaiah can handle most of the fighting when going into the tower. Clearly the promotions are something that story-wise boosts the power. 

I am saying that it sort of undermines the case of how Ike's entire struggle to reach his father's legacy was something that he didn't achieve with his own training. He got stronger sure, but it took a goddess to imbue him with power to finally reach that level. Kind of a cop out.

56 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I think the +5 to stats is purely an anti-frustration deal. Explicitly we just know that Yune's blessing allows people to harm others who have been gifted with Ashera's blessing.

Again, Zelgius commends Ike's SKILL when Ike defeats him, which Ike entirely earned through hard work. Could Ike have beaten Zelgius without the power up given to him by Yune? Maybe, maybe not, but there's 0 indication that he became a better swordsman from it. Ike says that he memorized Zelgius's sword style and incorporated the good bits in with what he learned from Greil.

I feel like this is an argument that will just go around in circles.

Skill is relative. Because once again, Ike has a story-explained form of power up. Because Zelgius clearly states that Ike is not yet at his or Greil's level when Ike beats the Black Knight during Part 3 encounter. So basically the power boost that Yune grants would basically augment Ike's abilities and enhance them. Reflexes, senses, stamina, etc. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camus: Camus is hands-down one of the strongest characters in the entire series. And, hot take, I'd say he's stronger than the over-praised Ike. Unlike Ike, who needed a little help (despite doing most of the work himself) and a blessing from a literal goddess, Camus could take down legions of enemies by himself without any blessing whatsoever. From what the story tells us, he'd even be a match for Medeus. I'd say Camus is an easy 10/10 and the only reason he doesn't seem as strong in Gaiden/Echoes and SNES/DS New Mystery is because he's amnesiac in one, and holding back in the other.

Ike: Ike bested Zelgius. Ike bested Ashnard. But ya know what? I think Camus could have taken the both of them down with ease, and probably gone up against Dheginsea. As for Ashera, the only reason Ike could beat her was because of Yune's blessing. I'm sure Camus would have needed that, too, but Camus probably wouldn't have even needed the other help Ike had in the tower. Ike is undoubtedly extremely strong and one of the strongest characters in Tellius, I think one of the only ones stronger is maybe Caineghis. However, I also think that Camus would beat Ike. I also think that Chrom, Sigurd, Ephraim, Hector, and Eliwood would all be able to stand toe-to-toe with him. I'd put Ike at around an 8.5/10 or a 9/10, about the same as Tibarn.

Alm: Alm is probably the strongest character in his game, excluding Zeke/Camus. He's the warrior to Celica's more peaceful personality. He bests the most famed fighters in the story and honestly he kinda makes quick work of that chump Berkut. He's got the feats to prove himself, story-wise! 8.5/10 or possibly 9/10

Edited by Fire Emblem Fan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camus: The biggest missed opportunity in Warriors, the genre was practically done for characters like him. He is clearly one of the strongest humans in the series, being compared to Anri by Medeus after he defeated an entire battalion, which was formed by more than 200 men, and only surrendering to the dragon because he didn't have any weapon. Also, winning against Midia, who is strong enough to become the captain of the Archanean Knights, while unarmerd when she was trying to kil him with a surprise attack is impresive, even if the differences in skill between them are huge. In Gaiden he probably hadn't healed yet and was amnesiac, and in FE3/12, whether is hasn't healed either or is trying to not catch everyone's attention, it doesn't matter imo, it doesn't change what he has done in the past or could do again in the future. Looking at the ranking in the first post he could easily be a 10/10, but I comparing him to final bosses, Naga and the like doesn't feels right to me, so 9.5/10 for me.

Ike: I haven't beaten either of his games so I'll refrain of comenting much. As of now, from what I've seen from him, a 9/10 seems fine, a little bit more maybe, but I haven't heard of anything as absurdly impresive about him as I have with Camus.

17 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am saying that it sort of undermines the case of how Ike's entire struggle to reach his father's legacy was something that he didn't achieve with his own training. He got stronger sure, but it took a goddess to imbue him with power to finally reach that level. Kind of a cop out.

Why should that matter though? This is a discussion about strenght and power, not about his character in the story. Imo it doesn't matter how he got his strength, just how strong he is, kinda like Marth with the shield equipped, it doesn't matter if the strenght doesn't come complitely from him, he could become a 9.

Also, will the power level analysis post return someday?

Alm: one of the strongest characters in Valentia, the game goes out of it's way to make sure you know this. Yet, it doesn't quite feels like he is that impresive. He beats Berkut, who is a mayor side-villian, but he simply isn't strong enought for justify a 9, he also won against Rudolf, but that was him losing on purpose, if Celica's premonition is anything to go by Alm is weaker than dismounted Rudolf, and even if he seemed to be possesed in the vision, that Aura only appeared in the end, while Berkut had it during his final combat against Alm. All in all I give him an 8.7/10, he could reach a 9 if we were to take overclasses into account though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Sbuscoz said:

Also, winning against Midia, who is strong enough to become the captain of the Archanean Knights, while unarmerd when she was trying to kil him with a surprise attack is impresive

Though to be fair the perpetual damsel that is Midia isn't exactly a bastion of competence. 

Next best of characters are a a loser, a heroine and a villain

Matthis: 4/10

He's weak enough to be bullied by starter villains in new mystery which doesn't speak highly of him. Also he can't recognize his own sister which implies he has very poor eyesight. Having bad eyes seems like a very uncomfortable handicap while fighting. He's a joke and the plot seems aware of it. If he does anything he's either wrong or being bullied into acting so I doubt the plot thinks Matthis is very powerful. 

Lyn: 8/10

Lyn is no doubt a very strong fighter but she's also established as the weakest of the lord trio. She loses against Hector who in turn is slightly weaker than Eliwood if their sparring record is anything to go by. But she still took over a Lycian territory, no matter how small just by herself and her band of misfits. One of the artworks of Blazing Blade shows her personally fighting Lundgren which shows she can face a promoted general pretty early. 

Gangrel: 7/10

Gangrel is depicted as pretty dangerous and a competent foe for Chrom and Co to take down. However he's never depicted as dangerous for his combat skills. Gangrel is dangerous he's mad and has a whole kingdom under his boot, but he's no warrior king like Ashnard. Chrom takes him down pretty early and without the help of any Gotoh character. So Gangrel is probably competent in a fight but not much more. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Lyn: 8/10

Lyn is no doubt a very strong fighter but she's also established as the weakest of the lord trio. She loses against Hector who in turn is slightly weaker than Eliwood if their sparring record is anything to go by. But she still took over a Lycian territory, no matter how small just by herself and her band of misfits. One of the artworks of Blazing Blade shows her personally fighting Lundgren which shows she can face a promoted general pretty early. 

Should note that Lyn failed to beat Hector because Hector noted that she has the physical strength of a woman, and he wears heavy armor and such. Hence why in their A Support, Lyn is practicing techniques specifically to combat armored foes. 

In Warriors, she fights Chrom in their support and they tied. Would that make Chrom weaker? Not necessarily, as Chrom doesn't wear much armor at all, and Chrom is very strong, so he oughta be able to beat Hector since Chrom has the physical strength that Lyn lacks. 

52 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Gangrel: 7/10

Gangrel is depicted as pretty dangerous and a competent foe for Chrom and Co to take down. However he's never depicted as dangerous for his combat skills. Gangrel is dangerous he's mad and has a whole kingdom under his boot, but he's no warrior king like Ashnard. Chrom takes him down pretty early and without the help of any Gotoh character. So Gangrel is probably competent in a fight but not much more. 

I dunno if it speaks much, but Cordelia's team was wiped out by a force led by Gangrel. Based on how Cordelia says it, Gangrel being there personally to fight basically the reason why the Pegasus knights that guarded the border fell. So Gangrel might actually be rather strong. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthis: Each time we see Matthis, he's a bit of a wimp. Somehow he's strong enough to be a soldier and survive both wars, but he's still always shown to be a wimp! He's probably one of the weakest guys in Marth's forces. 4/10

Lyn: It's made a point several times that warriors from Sacae are no jokes, and Lyn is certainly no exception. She managed to conquer a Lycian territory with an incredibly small force, she's the only person who can wield the Mani Katti, and she's strong enough that even Karel took an interest in her! And according to Karel, she still hadn't reached her peak yet, so even at that point she was impressively strong. She's not quite on the level of Eliwood, but she's still one of the stronger characters in Elibe. 8/10

Gangrel: He's shown to be more of a smarts person than a muscle man, although his smarts aren't on the same level as Robin's or Roy's or Micaiah's. He's competent enough on the battlefield, enough that Cordelia's forces were wiped out, but I don't think he's on the level of Valider or Aversa. 7/10

Edited by Fire Emblem Fan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthis = 3/10
Lyn = 7.5/10
Gangrel = 7/10

I think you guys are cutting Matthis a bit too much credit, he's treated as a mook in all appearances and only survives because he's Lena's brother.

While Gangrel is no doubt strong I think it comes more from cunning than pure power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Should note that Lyn failed to beat Hector because Hector noted that she has the physical strength of a woman, and he wears heavy armor and such. Hence why in their A Support, Lyn is practicing techniques specifically to combat armored foes. 

In Warriors, she fights Chrom in their support and they tied. Would that make Chrom weaker? Not necessarily, as Chrom doesn't wear much armor at all, and Chrom is very strong, so he oughta be able to beat Hector since Chrom has the physical strength that Lyn lacks. 

Are you implying Warriors is canon? 

I give Lyn an 8. She managed to solo a bunch of adult men on her debut chapter. This was before getting the Mani Katti and later the Sol Katti. To have such a strong showing this early in the story is rare for FE lords including Ike who doesn't have such a strong showing early in PoR. Unfortunately, her legendary weapon is inferior to Eliwood, Roy and Hector's so her peak is probably weaker than them. Also, she's extremely fast not just in stats but also in animations as well as story appearances where she is often the first one to reach the enemy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthis is a 2. Wait, what did I give Chad? Like, a 2? Matthis is a 1.5, then. The only thing worse than somebody not built to fight is somebody not built to fight who also doesn't want to fight, even for self-preservation. Even in the off-chance that he's actually stronger than someone, I am hesitant to say he'd even be able to win. I'd put money on Shannam in a fight. At least Shannam can accidentally do something cool in all of his failing every now and then.

Lyn's a 7.5. Nothing super special. Definitely above average, and definitely classifiable as "strong", but she has her weaknesses. Not on the level of Eliwood or Hector. She'd still probably beat most other units in the franchise in a straight up fight.

Gangrel's probably around a 6.5. Tough to say. He's got some strength, but he's mostly a Joker-type of character, more interested in scheming and manipulating the chances of a fight before the fighting starts. I would say he's adequately strong, but he's really not special when it comes to fighting, and he's outclassed pretty quickly and pretty early in his game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthis: he is clearly a weakling, and not having the will to fight or even train doesn't help. Still, he has a horse, wich is pretty useful, so 3.5/10.

Gangrel: doesn't strike me as someone really strong, obviously not weak, but nothing amazing. Him being dangerous it's more because how crazy he is than his actual skill. 6.5/10

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...