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Seth is crazy broken in Sacred Stones, like stupid nuts. Granted, all the early paladin/ advanced characters are kinda crazy, but Seth was just...
In all of my three playthroughs of the game (so many I know) Seth has been the only character I could put in the front lines, surrounded by 10+ enemies, and he'd come out barely scratched.

The other early advanced chars like Marcus and Frederick got nothin on Seth lmao

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Seth's not like many other early game Paladins in the series.

Most either have slightly lower stats to Cavs that you can raise up, or lower growths. Even stand-outs like Oifey and Titania fall into this to some degree... Seth is about on par with the best of the Cavs you can build up at comparable levels, and he actually has better growths than all of them.

He's a full-on end game unit that you get in the first chapter.

Edited by Slumber

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Welcome to Sacred Stones, be sure to pick up your brochures from L'arachel on the way out.

I'm pretty sure Seth is one of the main reasons people felt the need to distinguish between the crutch Jeigans that are only good in the beginning and the Jeigans that are more like Oifaye in that they can be useful throughout the game.

That being said, Seth's brokenness is quite strong, but I don't think it can quite beat Sigurd's BS.  Seth is broken dialed in at maybe a nine or ten, Sigurd is broken dialed up to a full 11.  Point being, IS loves their broken cavaliers a little bit too much.

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38 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Welcome to Sacred Stones, be sure to pick up your brochures from L'arachel on the way out.

I'm pretty sure Seth is one of the main reasons people felt the need to distinguish between the crutch Jeigans that are only good in the beginning and the Jeigans that are more like Oifaye in that they can be useful throughout the game.

That being said, Seth's brokenness is quite strong, but I don't think it can quite beat Sigurd's BS.  Seth is broken dialed in at maybe a nine or ten, Sigurd is broken dialed up to a full 11.  Point being, IS loves their broken cavaliers a little bit too much.

Yeah, but Sigurd's a main character and isn't effective for the whole game.

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Seth was a case of powercreep. FE6- Marcus has the power to last about half the game at most, very inferior growths to his competitors. FE7 slashed the massive disparity in growths between promoted and unpromoted units, and combined with enemy weakness in FE7, Marcus got really good. FE8- Seth has more growths than the unpromoted rivals, like why? The enemies aren't much if at all stronger either than in FE7.

Titania does have more total growths than her rivals too in FE9, but at least she needs them to keep up with her competition once they grow. So she is only the best unit for about a third of the game (not all her fault- FE9 is very restrictive with your crew until like chapter 9 or 11), half at most, afterwards remaining very serviceable but not so outmatched.

 

Maybe Valter's stab should've penetrated deeper. Arran was crap because illness, why not a severe spontaneous allergy to physical contact with metal to drag down Seth's stats? Keep his good growths, just give him bases reflective of someone injured by a powerful psychopath.

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4 hours ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, but Sigurd's a main character and isn't effective for the whole game.

In fairness the instant Sigurd expired Seliph comes in, able to promote in a single chapter, and starts with everything Sigurd already have by chapter 5, resulting in a simmilarly broken Lord. Can't even argue that as favoritism since the way you favoritize Seliph is by making overuse of a broken character to their full extent

 

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Seth was a case of powercreep. FE6- Marcus has the power to last about half the game at most, very inferior growths to his competitors. FE7 slashed the massive disparity in growths between promoted and unpromoted units, and combined with enemy weakness in FE7, Marcus got really good. FE8- Seth has more growths than the unpromoted rivals, like why? The enemies aren't much if at all stronger either than in FE7.

Titania does have more total growths than her rivals too in FE9, but at least she needs them to keep up with her competition once they grow. So she is only the best unit for about a third of the game (not all her fault- FE9 is very restrictive with your crew until like chapter 9 or 11), half at most, afterwards remaining very serviceable but not so outmatched.

 

Maybe Valter's stab should've penetrated deeper. Arran was crap because illness, why not a severe spontaneous allergy to physical contact with metal to drag down Seth's stats? Keep his good growths, just give him bases reflective of someone injured by a powerful psychopath.

 

The amusing part about Seth isn't just his growth is competitive, and more than his unpromoted rival

Its the fact that its also arguably the most well distributed "standard growth" out of any GBA unit. Everyone with growth total above him are like Lord who have 50+ luck and spreaded normally on other stats. Past that you have Chad and Cath with their hyper inflated growth

Meanwhile Seth is chilling with 300+ stats total distributed on HSSD, with literally 40% Defense growth for some reason. Even offensively he keeps up with monster like Sain(65/40 vs Seth 50/45), but no other unit quite have the 40% growth without paying the consequences with other stats

 

6 hours ago, DB4D said:

Seth is crazy broken in Sacred Stones, like stupid nuts. Granted, all the early paladin/ advanced characters are kinda crazy, but Seth was just...
In all of my three playthroughs of the game (so many I know) Seth has been the only character I could put in the front lines, surrounded by 10+ enemies, and he'd come out barely scratched.

The other early advanced chars like Marcus and Frederick got nothin on Seth lmao

Frederick is honestly arguable since his game mechanics is kinda fucked up. Played normally, he's fairly balanced but Awakening is that game where saying "X can solo the game" is much less impressive than it normally is and Frederick is more than capable of soloing Lunatic

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Yes, Seth is amazing.  He starts out strong, and pretty much stays that way.  I'd say the only other early character that breaks the game that hard is Sigurd (but Sigurd's the main guy).  Titania's also pretty darn good as well. . .not on the same level as Seth, but she's a force to be reckoned with.

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7 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Sigurd is broken dialed up to a full 11

I hate to have to break this to the Sigurd is broken crowd, but without the Tyrfing (chapter 5 exclusive and literally broken when acquired) he has serious problems with mages with his average Mdef of 4.25 at max level. With the forests/mountains and wind mages of chapter 4, and difficulties of personal healing in FE4, it is VERY difficult to solo generation 1 with Sigurd. Seth has no such weakness, and soloing his entire game is trivial. Sigurd is amazing and broken... but not Seth levels of amazing and broken.

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It's telling that Seth has better bases then the last unit you recruit.

Still, it's strange how Seth is the only prepromote that has those overkill growths. And it's not like the other ones have better bases then he has.

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I rarely use pre-premoted units acquired early on because they usually don't have the potential to grow very much by the end of the game. Seth on the other hand is the exact opposite, but it creates a entirely new problem if you're looking for any sense of challenge out of the game. Seth is one of the series strangest phenomena to say the least.

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Seth is awesome. I'm not sure if he's the best unit in the game (unless you manage to get him to Level 20), but he's definitely one of the best units I've ever used in a FE game.

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9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I hate to have to break this to the Sigurd is broken crowd, but without the Tyrfing (chapter 5 exclusive and literally broken when acquired) he has serious problems with mages with his average Mdef of 4.25 at max level. With the forests/mountains and wind mages of chapter 4, and difficulties of personal healing in FE4, it is VERY difficult to solo generation 1 with Sigurd.

As if he is the only unit with nonexistent Res? Nope, unless you're Silvia, Claud, or Deidre, you don't have a growth exceeding 10% in that stat. Bases? Well Edain can muster a whole 11, Azelle and Ethlyn 8, Tailtiu 14, Lachesis, Brigid and Erinys 9, and Lewyn 12. Sigurd by the way has a base of 3.

Tailtiu- joins late and terribly underleveled. No Pursuit.

Deidre et Ethlyn- they leave early.

Silvia- has dirt combat being the Dancer unit.

Azelle- a bit of a chore to train if worth it, not that much Res.

Claud- no Pursuit, no horse. Can tank magic, but only at a glacial pace. Edain is the same, but much worse.

Lachesis et Erinys- not that much Res really, even if they have some natural base Magic for the Light Brand, Erinys can't fight Wind users either.

Lewyn- no horse, no Pursuit, Forseti comes late.

Brigid- can't counter range 1 attacks, no horse.

So when you narrow this list by crossing off the obvious nos, which I have, of the 24 1st Gen units, you're left with maybe 5 units who can do particularly well against magic users.

 

You also ignore the Light Brand for WTA nerfing the accuracy of enemy mages, and gives Sig the ability to counterattack them. The Barrier Ring exists too for another +5 Res (Sigurd can probably afford it, and the Magic Ring too if need be for offense- if you're soloing, why isn't he getting these?).

Given all of the above units are in some way flawed who have greater anti-mage potential, and everyone else has nonexistent Res, Sigurd realistically fares no worse than anyone else in the cast. Mages being threats limited in appearances further reduces these issues.

And if you don't mean "solo" in the strictest sense of the word, and mean something like "a unit who does 51% to 90% of all tasks on the battlefield alone", then Sigurd certainly can fit the definition. I think there is a case for this definition- how many of us actually have done Seth solos? Probably few, but leaving to Seth alone a key portion of the battlefield with no or minimal backup? That would be much much higher.

 

5 hours ago, BrightBow said:

It's telling that Seth has better bases then the last unit you recruit.

Still, it's strange how Seth is the only prepromote that has those overkill growths. And it's not like the other ones have better bases then he has.

Have to second this. No other prepromote in SS has Seth's godliness at all.

Well Duessel is a bit tankier, axing, slower, with an armor weakness, and less mobile Seth, but comes at a much higher base level and significantly later, particularly on Eirika's route. Saleh doesn't quite obsolete his prior competition the way Pent does (well he does on Eiri's, but not Eph's), but is still very good, but has comparable availability to Duessel save flipped.

Then you get ultibot Rennac, the decent-but-nothing-better Sniper that is Innes.

And lastly you get the woefully weak Dozla. And as you speak but not her name, the pitifully underpar Syrene- who can't even do a good job of killing or surviving the Druids in her joining chapter- despite being an anti-mage Falcoknight of all things. Where, by the way, was the Gotoh of this game? Syrene being the last unit to join feels anticlimatic.

 

...

What were they thinking with Seth? I wish we could actually hear from the developers why they arranged the gameplay stuff as they did sometimes. Like Revelation Nyx.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And lastly you get the woefully weak Dozla. And as you speak but not her name, the pitifully underpar Syrene- who can't even do a good job of killing or surviving the Druids in her joining chapter- despite being an anti-mage Falcoknight of all things. Where, by the way, was the Gotoh of this game? Syrene being the last unit to join feels anticlimatic.

Come to think of it, this is kinda strange. Not that this archetype is really needed, but Morva has more then a few similarities with Goto. Yet he just gets unceremoniously killed in his first scene.

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The Cain and Abel archetype are also known as Christmas Cavaliers. So Seth is your christmas gift.

 

That being said, I think Seth is pretty much the best unit in the GBA games. 8 mov, superb bases, good growths, perfect availability and A in sword/lance is something you don't see everyday. Seth is free. Seth is so free. If Seth was the early paladin in any other GBA, he would be easily the best unit in that game too. Just imagine FE6, where you field HM!Percival and Seth in the same chapter. It would be so beautiful.

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You also ignore the Light Brand for WTA nerfing the accuracy of enemy mages, and gives Sig the ability to counterattack them.

Sorry, I was remembering the tactical considerations of a strict Sigurd Solo, where you do not field anyone other than Sigurd (and thus never get the Light Brand from the Ethlin Diadora conversation), that 20% dodge at range does improves his ability to deal with mages (although the extra slot taken up by the magic ring to ensure he 2 rounds (while doubling) the mages from range instead of 4 rounds hurts a bit)

Seth's weakness are far fewer and further between, and situations where units exist that would do a better job at a task then him are far fewer.

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And if you don't mean "solo" in the strictest sense of the word, and mean something like "a unit who does 51% to 90% of all tasks on the battlefield alone", then Sigurd certainly can fit the definition. I think there is a case for this definition- how many of us actually have done Seth solos? Probably few, but leaving to Seth alone a key portion of the battlefield with no or minimal backup? That would be much much higher.

I was talking strict solo, and more that Seth's ability to do so easier makes him more broken than Sigurd. Sigurd breaks his game but so do like a quarter of the cast (and a couple of the bosses), and does have notable weakness that do show up. No one breaks Sacred Stones quite like Seth (without meaningless grinding), and what weaknesses he has are rare (maybe effective weapons, but how many of those are there on enemies that aren't pathetic? I guess player that forget pure waters exist might be his biggest weakness, and even then he still has passable resistance).

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I had so many units that only got one stat growth repeatedly (Franz became so weak that Forde ended up being better than him) but Seth was the only unit that reliably getting growths in at least 3 or 4 of the stats during level ups. He's actually one of the only two units that got growth in every stat during my playthrough. The other was Natasha (LOL). 

Edited by zuibangde

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"hey you know that marcus guy from fe7"
"yeah"
"what if we gave him really big growths"
"an excellent idea nothing could possibly go wrong"
"oh and we should also make marcus 3 in the next game after this one"

Edited by jeigansucksexp

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