Fates' exp system is broken

[Mandokarla]

5 minutes ago, starburst said:

Archer Mozu costs a Heart Seal and a Bronce Bow, and Aptitude ensures that she will always be a monster no matter what. Her main challenger for the investment, Jakob, is both completely superfluous early-game and irrelevant from mid-game onwards. I always play as female Corrin and the prick always ends the game at around Level 5. Many times I just let Jakob die in Ch 6, some others I save him because that Heal is valuable to level-up Elise. If the items remained, I guess that I would always let him die.

You've never played Lunatic Conquest without turtling, have you? Jakob with an early HS absolutely annihilates the early to mid game, especially if f!Corrin has wyvern as a talent -- super early Trample is strong.

[starburst]

28 minutes ago, Mandokarla said:

You've never played Lunatic Conquest without turtling, have you? Jakob with an early HS absolutely annihilates the early to mid game, especially if f!Corrin has wyvern as a talent -- super early Trample is strong.

I have played Conquest Lunatic a couple of times, but only until Chapter 18 or 20. In all those occasions, I never used Jakob as a main unit (and I doubt that he could be the reason that would make me prefer Lunatic over Hard.)

Since I may simply not be a player as good as you, and you seem to have more experience in Conquest Lunatic, I will concede and take your claim as true.
What I can guarantee you is that Jakob is absolutely superfluous in Conquest Hard. But if one only needs a re-classed Jakob in Lunatic, then he is superfluous in more scenarios than he is necessary.

Note that however bad I may be at playing, the main reason I did not enjoy Conquest Lunatic as much as I enjoy Hard is that I felt forced to maximise resources, in particular, to use backpacks and bots. Instead of, say, deploying a L10/1 Berserker Charlotte to patch Xander deficiencies, I prefer to deploy the characters that I like and use the units equally. That is why I do ten-units only runs with no backpacks and no grinding in Hard.

[mangasdeouf]

1 hour ago, starburst said:

Man, it has always amazed me how many people discredit Mozu in Conquest, where a powerful and deft Sniper has a niche. But I did not know that she was just as good in Birthright (I got bored after some chapters and never tried it again.)

Archer Mozu costs a Heart Seal and a Bronce Bow, and Aptitude ensures that she will always be powerful no matter what. Her main challenger for the investment, Jakob, is both completely superfluous early-game and irrelevant from mid-game onwards. I always play as female Corrin and the prick always ends the game at around Level 5. Many times I just let Jakob die in Ch 6, some others I save him because that Heal is valuable to level-up Elise.

Mozu and Velouria have to be the units with the most reliable growths in Conquest. Theirs are so good that RNG cannot screw them, ever. (Granted, I have never tried Velouria as Elise's or Nyx's daughter, but why would I?) As long as their classes fit your party, they will always deliver.

Mozu is a goddess in any physical class, she might even get bulk from a tanky class like wyvern, knight or cavalier (or hero) and she could make an awesome berserker with better stat assignment than Charlotte (high skill ensures that she hits often) while having less HP (but more def and existing res). She can render children units worth it in-game instead of them being a liability with some of their recruitment chapters being annoying to deal with (hard conquest kana has so many ennemies grouping that you can't instantly recruit him/her you need to be able to defeat most of them while making the child survive the shit out of the horrible swordaster/falcon knight/onmyoji/Kinshi?/lancemaster/etc. with their subordinates) so you have to play further into the game to beat them and recruit the children that are now way inferior to their parents (not even mentionning no pref for princes' baby boys to 1-2 range freely with bonus stats on top of no drawbacks). Why play Mozu as an archer if youcan make her an EP unit? archers are useful for sure. But when you have the ability to make her ORKO pegasi with other weapons than bows, why cripple her with a 2-range locked weapon, while she doesn't have magic growth to use shining bow? Just make her a cavalier/fighter/mercenary/wyvern and let her become an EP unit that ORKOs everything.

Sure in BR her growths are overkill and her base stats IN HER BASE CLASS suck ass, but give her 6 kills and she has levelled up 3 times, catching up with the rest of the army before completely outperforming Niles, Odin, Nyx, Selena, Laslow, Charlotte, and any glass cannon AS A VILLAGER, or outperforming nearly everyone in their own class (physical classes only). Sure she won't ever have 70% def growth, but she doesn't need it, 45-50% is good enough to make a level 1 recruited unit as tanky as Silas in a few level ups and beat him in the long run because he'll have trouble with ninja debuffs and the like while she will kill them before they debuff her with no more than a strength pair up (likely to be the most common thing in CQ), and for BR debuffs are rare outside from the occasional ennemy with seal who she can kill before they do any harm to her, so the seals won't activate often. She's a royal under cover.

By the way, Subaki sure lacks strength, but so does Reina and Subaki can use effectively any weapon available without suffering too much from their penalties, because his doubling potential isn't as necessary as hers so the -3 spd from steel hurts him less when he already doesn't double, and he has the skill to use low hit rate but good effective/reverse weapon triangle weapons alongside actual usable magic growth to use bolt naginata, so he can pull the best of any naginata other than bronze/iron shit (on top of forge being OP and allowing to use +4 iron weapons that have as much mt as silver if not more XD). Same for Hinata who doesn't get the credit for what he allows you to do, like having the best hp pool of Hoshido units, having good strength (not 70% but 45% with 11 base at level 10 is correct), a good reclass option for strength/def bonus (oni savage) though it hurts his skill, his C base sword rank is good for his level which allows him to jump fast on special/effective weapons and swords/katanas are accurate. Sure he isn't the best but he stays a good unit that can tank physical hits which isn't common in BR.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

What exactly do you mean by sacrificing a better unit? You could easily put on a unit you don't find good, such as Orochi, and he'll do well enough with a Bolt Naginata.

Exactly what I mean. And if your solution to fix a bad unit is to field even more bad units, that's a bad solution imo.

[LoneRecon400]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

If your solution to fix a bad unit is to field even more bad units, that's a bad solution imo.

How is it a bad solution when it makes said weaker units capable of one rounding most enemies? 

Edited October 28, 2018 by LoneRecon400

[starburst]

24 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Mozu is a goddess in any physical class, she might even get bulk from a tanky class like wyvern, knight or cavalier (or hero) and she could make an awesome berserker with better stat assignment than Charlotte (high skill ensures that she hits often) while having less HP (but more def and existing res). [...] Why play Mozu as an archer if youcan make her an EP unit? archers are useful for sure. But when you have the ability to make her ORKO pegasi with other weapons than bows, why cripple her with a 2-range locked weapon, while she doesn't have magic growth to use shining bow? Just make her a cavalier/fighter/mercenary/wyvern and let her become an EP unit that ORKOs everything.

 

You do not have to convince me, mate. Sniper Mozu is already an eternal MVP-nominee in all of may campaigns. Ha!
I prefer her as an Archer because as one she delivers what others cannot: she erases enemies. I have tried her as a Paladin, Knight-Great Knight, Master of Arms and Figher-Hero, and I still find her more useful as a Sniper. Then again, I may simply be too used to the class, and changing habits is harder than learning something new. I will try her as Master of Arms or Hero/Berserker on my next run next week.
(And you should try Sniper Effie, she is strong as fuck. You will see less critical hits and doubles with her, but more one-hit KO's.)

About Kana's Paralogue in Hard, I have had complete different experiences with it. When I play it, I do it before Ch 12 as free Experience, to round the levels of the party before facing Ryoma, Saizo and Tits. I use nine units and always finish it by Turn 7 (sometimes after the inbreeds arrive, for even more free Experience.)
When exactly is it that you play it? Maybe after enemies promote is it exponentially more difficult.

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Heart seals become infinite by chapter 20, and you saw how weak the enemies were in that chapter. Prior to Chapter 22 RInkah has no issues one rounding even without an Onmyoji Pair up, and by that point you have an excess amount of funds to spend. 

 Also, Priestess Sakura?  Renewal might be an decent skill, but it most definitely not worth being Bowlocked for.

Which still leaves most of the game they're limited for.

Bold: With what exactly? An inaccurate magic weapon? (This is one gripe I have about axe infantry - most of them are too damn inaccurate. Another is they they tend to be bad units more often than not, and Rinkah ain't an exception)

Perhaps, but the promotion gains are also better.

5 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

The Oni Savages were used as point of reference, as they have 8 speed. For some prescriptive, that's the exact same speed as the Wyvern Knights in Chapter 13 have. Enemy units in Birthright don't scale enough for her to not be doubling with investment. 

I'm also unsure why you're valuing Speed Pair ups so much. Almost 2/3rd's of the entire cast of Birthright give speed, so there's more than enough to go around.

Still, her needing help to double armors is an utter embarrassment. I mean, for (EFF!)'s sake, she's a mage, which is supposed to be the bane of knights. Her low speed also ruins her otherwise good offense.

And most of them are also better than Orochi.

5 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Hp is far less relevant than defense since having the difference of 2 defense means taking less than 8 damage if you encounter 4 enemies on enemy phase. Hp Tonics also increase it 5, making it an non issue.

But you know what? Lets actually look at the number to see if it's relevant as you claim. Average 20/8 RInkah has 29 HP and 27 defense. With the relevant tonics and a rally, that brings it up to 34 HP and 33 Def.

Hardest hitting enemy in the last route map consist of Wyvern Lords in Chapter 23 with 41 attack, meaning that Rinkah gets five Round Ko'd. And that's failing to include the dual gauge, defensive pairups, and weapons that give defense such as the Horse Spirit.

And what makes this even better is that she can also one round them, considering that they only have 43 HP and 9 Resistance, it only takes 31 attack to one round them, which she can easily obtain.

I personally think both go hand-in-hand when it comes to tanking. High Defense only means so much if you don't have the HP to back it up.

Which assumes that you go Oni Chieftain, which is a rather unimpressive class (and why in the name of Anankos would I???). Also, in the chapter in question, you have to worry about constant damage. Dual guards aren't exactly reliable, either.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

What is she using exactly? An inaccurate magic weapon? (This is one gripe I have about axe infantry - most of them are too damn inaccurate. Another is they they tend to be bad units more often than not, and Rinkah ain't an exception)

if you're that cornered about accuracy, just uses tomes. Enemies are weak enough to the point that even with the Rat Sprint will be enough for her.

Quote

Which assumes that you go Oni Chieftain, which is a rather unimpressive class (and why in the name of Anankos would I???).

Why wouldn't you? It provides decent durability, access to tomes for 1-2 range, and a sizable increase to magic to utilize them and the Bolt Axe.

What would you even rather prefer? Blacksmith?

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

if you're that cornered about accuracy, just uses tomes. Enemies are weak enough to the point that even with the Rat Sprint will be enough for her.

Why wouldn't you? It provides decent durability, access to tomes for 1-2 range, and a sizable increase to magic to utilize them and the Bolt Axe.

What would you even rather prefer? Blacksmith?

Unless it's a Wyvern Lord or something, she'd be lucky to do anything more than chip damage.

Because it has crap skills and its weapon combination is awkward. Axes and tomes?? Really??? And it is an offshoot of a physical class??? IS must have ran out of ideas... It doesn't help that hybrid classes generally can't do both sides well, as Oni Chieftain and Malig Knight prove.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Mandokarla]

9 hours ago, starburst said:

I have played Conquest Lunatic a couple of times, but only until Chapter 18 or 20. In all those occasions, I never used Jakob as a main unit (and I doubt that he could be the reason that would make me prefer Lunatic over Hard.)

Since I may simply not be a player as good as you, and you seem to have more experience in Conquest Lunatic, I will concede and take your claim as true.
What I can guarantee you is that Jakob is absolutely superfluous in Conquest Hard. But if one only needs a re-classed Jakob in Lunatic, then he is superfluous in more scenarios than he is necessary.
 

On Hard, I'll absolutely agree with you. I feel that CQ!Hard is one of the most well balanced FE games currently in existence, if I must be honest.

[mangasdeouf]

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Unless it's a Wyvern Lord or something, she'd be lucky to do anything more than chip damage.

Because it has crap skills and its weapon combination is awkward. Axes and tomes?? Really??? And it is an offshoot of a physical class??? IS must have ran out of ideas... It doesn't help that hybrid classes generally can't do both sides well, as Oni Chieftain and Malig Knight prove.

LOL ennemies have low res on the Nohr side, don't lie please. Also on higher difficulties generals tend to have wary fighter anyway, so even if she had 150 speed she couldn't double them, making speed a useless stat. If she can ORKO then I don't care how low her speed is, I just give her th ressources needed to not be doubled by middling speed units and a strong tome that will OHKO.

Actually, Malig Knight is the class that has been used for a while now for Corrin to speedrun/LTC so as long as your magic isn't trash (and magic powders have little use outside from making hybrid classes more efficient for low but not inexistant magic growth units like Rinkah, Subaki, Camilla, Hinoka...) you can use it effectively (high mt tomes are very effective if given to Rinkah with her passive as well as the bolt axe if you can get one, free +4 magic + base magic + promo gains mean she has nearly as much effective magic at level 1 as Subaki's strength stat as a lv 1 falcon knight (well, around 2/3s of it) on your worst attacking stat. It's higher than Camille's magic BTW.

A difference of 4 in skill cap isn't that bad for Rinkah especially if she has a support with a skill statue unit that you use actively enough to get it to level 2 or 3 by mid-game so Rinkah doesn't stay at base skill cap for too long (sure Oni's skill cap sucks but it's workabe and a tonic fixes most of it anyway with +6% hit alone). If need be she can support Subaki since I guess his statue gives skill ^^ and he gives her speed to double alongside res to tank a hit or two while she gives him strength and def to make his bruiser identity even better (by the way my Subaki has 14 spd at level 12 or 13 so I don't see the problem with his speed, and it's not far above average either, maybe rounded to superior instead of inferior but that's all and he still has 19 spd on PP which is already overkill).

Actually, a Rinkah pair up on Subaki makes him Fates equivalent for Cormag, which is one of the best units in TSS with flight + combat utility, and Subaki also has staff utility, exp from it without draining combat exp and rally speed. That makes him way better than Cormag. So to people still thinking he's trash, just compare with other games' flyers and think of it, he has more than most of them in one unit. He's no royal BS but he's better than royal because he doesn't need OP AF stats or pref weapon to be good and useful for the whole game and he comes very early in the game.

Edited October 28, 2018 by mangasdeouf

[LoneRecon400]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Unless it's a Wyvern Lord or something, she'd be lucky to do anything more than chip damage.

 20/1 Rinkah averages 10 magic. Combine that with a Onmyoji Pair up, Magic Tonic, Fiery Blood, and Rat Sprit she ends up 23 attack.

Take a look at the enemy stats in Chapter 16: https://imgur.com/a/u3FthuM

As you can see that's the benchmark to one round both the Knights and the Fighters, which make up a significant portion of the map. 

She can even be capable of one rounding even the Dark Mages if she can wield something better than a Rat Spirit. 

Again, Birthright enemies are consistently low quality , making magic Benchmarks achievable even for units with low magic.

I still don't understand your disdain Oni Chieftain, but putting that aside, what do you think is the best end class for her?

[Shadow Mir]

12 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

LOL ennemies have low res on the Nohr side, don't lie please. Also on higher difficulties generals tend to have wary fighter anyway, so even if she had 150 speed she couldn't double them, making speed a useless stat. If she can ORKO then I don't care how low her speed is, I just give her th ressources needed to not be doubled by middling speed units and a strong tome that will OHKO.

Actually, Malig Knight is the class that has been used for a while now for Corrin to speedrun/LTC so as long as your magic isn't trash (and magic powders have little use outside from making hybrid classes more efficient for low but not inexistant magic growth units like Rinkah, Subaki, Camilla, Hinoka...) you can use it effectively (high mt tomes are very effective if given to Rinkah with her passive as well as the bolt axe if you can get one, free +4 magic + base magic + promo gains mean she has nearly as much effective magic at level 1 as Subaki's strength stat as a lv 1 falcon knight (well, around 2/3s of it) on your worst attacking stat. It's higher than Camille's magic BTW.

A difference of 4 in skill cap isn't that bad for Rinkah especially if she has a support with a skill statue unit that you use actively enough to get it to level 2 or 3 by mid-game so Rinkah doesn't stay at base skill cap for too long (sure Oni's skill cap sucks but it's workabe and a tonic fixes most of it anyway with +6% hit alone). If need be she can support Subaki since I guess his statue gives skill ^^ and he gives her speed to double alongside res to tank a hit or two while she gives him strength and def to make his bruiser identity even better (by the way my Subaki has 14 spd at level 12 or 13 so I don't see the problem with his speed, and it's not far above average either, maybe rounded to superior instead of inferior but that's all and he still has 19 spd on PP which is already overkill).

Actually, a Rinkah pair up on Subaki makes him Fates equivalent for Cormag, which is one of the best units in TSS with flight + combat utility, and Subaki also has staff utility, exp from it without draining combat exp and rally speed. That makes him way better than Cormag. So to people still thinking he's trash, just compare with other games' flyers and think of it, he has more than most of them in one unit. He's no royal BS but he's better than royal because he doesn't need OP AF stats or pref weapon to be good and useful for the whole game and he comes very early in the game.

What's this? The guy who's been lying through his teeth since this thread started now thinks to lecture me on lying? Oh my, that's rich. As for Wary Fighter on Generals, that's only true in Conquest. OHKOs are something that's bound to be rare barring critical hits, and stronger weapons have drawbacks, like dropping your skill and the relevant offensive stat after combat. And who were you trying to defend here anyhow?

Except this is talking about Corrin - one of the few units who can be good with both strength and magic. Most units are only good with one of strength or magic, which ruins any chance of being good in a hybrid class like Malig Knight, and as a result, odds are the other class option is better than the hybrid option (for example, why in the seven hells would I want a Basara when it promotes from either a Spear Fighter, who's likely going to have a piss-poor magic score, or Diviner, who's most likely not going to have the strength to do anything with lances???). 

What's this about the skill cap? Because caps generally aren't going to be relevant in the maingame.

Except Cormag actually could make his blows sting, and didn't force me to field more third-rate units just to make him look "good". And FYI, we're not comparing Subaki to other games' fliers - we're comparing him to this game's fliers, and he's junk compared to damn near every other one of them. Oh, and what's more, he only really has 2 chapters of free deployment (starting in chapter 9, you have more units than you can deploy).

Edited October 29, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[joshcja]

*looks in, see's somone talking about cormag again, walks out*

You can 20/1 promote before ch10 of you really want to superlowman CQ (without dlc).

 

[Shadow Mir]

On 10/28/2018 at 8:55 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

 20/1 Rinkah averages 10 magic. Combine that with a Onmyoji Pair up, Magic Tonic, Fiery Blood, and Rat Sprit she ends up 23 attack.

Take a look at the enemy stats in Chapter 16: https://imgur.com/a/u3FthuM

As you can see that's the benchmark to one round both the Knights and the Fighters, which make up a significant portion of the map. 

She can even be capable of one rounding even the Dark Mages if she can wield something better than a Rat Spirit. 

Again, Birthright enemies are consistently low quality , making magic Benchmarks achievable even for units with low magic.

I still don't understand your disdain Oni Chieftain, but putting that aside, what do you think is the best end class for her?

I thought I made it clear enough why I think Oni Chieftain is crap. Awkward weapon combination (let's take the strongest weapon type and pair it up with a much weaker weapon type that runs off a stat that's bound to be lower because the class that promotes into it is physically inclined!), crap skills (the Oni Savage line in general is guilty of this; Lancebreaker is the best it has to offer [though that's saying very little when most everything else is crap], but it's a level 15 skill and thus is unlikely to be relevant for long, if at all), and it just felt like an afterthought in general (I applaud IS for wanting to make two distinct armies, but this was one of the main reasons I felt they ran out of ideas). Poor distribution doesn't help (barring partner/friendship seals, only 6 characters have access to it - Rinkah, Hinata, Hisame, Hayato, Rhajat, and Fuga; the latter is Revelation only, and the former sucks. Not that partner and friendship seals would help much since the one natural Oni is almost as bad as Smash 64 Link's recovery). All of them are obviously slanted in one direction or the other.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

On November 1, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Shadow Mir said:

I thought I made it clear enough why I think Oni Chieftain is crap. 

Ok, but that wasn't my question. My question is what should her end class be then? Blacksmith?

[Shadow Mir]

17 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Ok, but that wasn't my question. My question is what should her end class be then? Blacksmith?

I would say Spear Master instead. Better skills, for one, and patches up her sketchy crit evade.

[LoneRecon400]

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would say Spear Master instead. Better skills, for one, and patches up her sketchy crit evade.

Why Spear Master? It doesn't really help Rinkah in any significant way and it's skills are nothing to write home about. Having to to deal with E Lances also does her no favors.

Also, Crit Evade? Pair Up already gives +5 dodge. That's more than enough to negate  the crit of most enemies, especially since the crit forumla is (Skill-4)/2. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Why Spear Master? It doesn't really help Rinkah in any significant way and it's skills are nothing to write home about. Having to to deal with E Lances also does her no favors.

Also, Crit Evade? Pair Up already gives +5 dodge. That's more than enough to negate  the crit of most enemies, especially since the crit forumla is (Skill-4)/2. 

And Oni does??? Axe infantry have a very poor track record, in case you forgot. Also, Spear Fighter has way better skills to offer than Oni - like a seal skill that's actually useful, for one (let's face it, Seal Resistance doesn't even deserve the time of day). For what it's worth, it also means access to the Guard Naginata.

Sure, pair up can shore up crit evade, but it comes at the cost of a unit slot, and a turn as well. The changed crit formula doesn't mean much - just look at Arthur, who has to lock himself to bronze if he doesn't want to get critted out. And that's only a temporary solution at best.

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

And Oni does??? Axe infantry have a very poor track record, in case you forgot. Also, Spear Fighter has way better skills to offer than Oni - like a seal skill that's actually useful, for one (let's face it, Seal Resistance doesn't even deserve the time of day). For what it's worth, it also means access to the Guard Naginata.

Even if you discounted Oni, there's still better classes available to Rinkah such as Paladin, Master of Arms, or even Black Smith. Spear Master has nothing going for it other than Seal Skills, which aren't exactly useful when you one round most enemies. It's most certainly not worth putting up with E lances for. 

And if we're mentioning weapons that increase stats, the Horse Spirit is leagues ahead of the Guard Naginata.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Sure, pair up can shore up crit evade, but it comes at the cost of a unit slot, and a turn as well. The changed crit formula doesn't mean much - just look at Arthur, who has to lock himself to bronze if he doesn't want to get critted out. And that's only a temporary solution at best.

Using a unit who has effectively -9 luck isn't exactly the best point of reference when judging enemy crit rates. 

May I also remind you that even as far chapter 23, no enemy has crit rates that reach even the double digits: https://imgur.com/a/SqKArFB

About the only enemies who have a sizeable crit rate are berserkers. But not only are they rather limited in number, most durable units can even withstand a crit from them with enough investment.

Edited November 3, 2018 by LoneRecon400

[Dean]

Spear Master Rinkah. Close to the weirdest suggestion I've heard on this forum. Poor old LoneRecon400, got stuck in an argument with Levant.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Dean said:

Spear Master Rinkah. Close to the weirdest suggestion I've heard on this forum. Poor old LoneRecon400, got stuck in an argument with Levant.

You gotta admit, it's infinitely more sensible than Wyvern Rider Elise - and people actually think to defend that for whatever reason.

4 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Even if you discounted Oni, there's still better classes available to Rinkah such as Paladin, Master of Arms, or even Black Smith. Spear Master has nothing going for it other than Seal Skills, which aren't exactly useful when you one round most enemies. It's most certainly not worth putting up with E lances for. 

And if we're mentioning weapons that increase stats, the Horse Spirit is leagues ahead of the Guard Naginata.

Blacksmith? What exactly does that have to offer? Because I'm at a loss... Skills can't be it, even if it has the one decent skill from the Oni line. Paladin? Have fun grinding supports with a mediocre unit (Silas). Master of Arms? If dealing with one E rank bothers you so much, why would you suggest a class that has two more E ranks??

I doubt that - tomes aren't nearly as amazing in this game as they were in Awakening. Second, if you're using Horse Spirit, chances are you're a fragile mage, which Horse Spirit does not do enough to remedy.

4 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Using a unit who has effectively -9 luck isn't exactly the best point of reference when judging enemy crit rates. 

May I also remind you that even as far chapter 23, no enemy has crit rates that reach even the double digits: https://imgur.com/a/SqKArFB

About the only enemies who have a sizeable crit rate are berserkers. But not only are they rather limited in number, most durable units can even withstand a crit from them with enough investment.

Fair point.

I thought the Heroes in chapter 16 had 10 crit.

Hoshidans aren't exactly the type of units that I would think of if asked to name a unit that could take a crit from a Silver Axe Berserker and live to tell the tale (especially knowing one of the few tanky Hoshidan units is sorely lacking in the other stat that's important for tanking)... Aside from Dragonstone Corrin, who might not even face crit rates at all. This is Low HP Emblem, after all.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Blacksmith? What exactly does that have to offer? Because I'm at a loss... Skills can't be it, even if it has the one decent skill from the Oni line. Paladin? Have fun grinding supports with a mediocre unit (Silas). Master of Arms? If dealing with one E rank bothers you so much, why would you suggest a class that has two more E ranks??

While admittedly Silas isn't the best Pair Up for her, Paladin still helps to increase her offense with Elbow Room to offset E weapons on top of giving her 8 Movement. 

Master of Arms allows her to keep her Axe Rank so she's not stuck having to deal with only E rank weapons. And by feeding her an arms scroll later on, she's also able to use some useful weapons such as the Sword Catcher, Axe Splitter, or Beast Killer. 

And while there's nothing really worthwhile about Blacksmith, it at least means she gets to keep her Axe Rank and she doesn't have to pair up with anyone to get access to it.

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I doubt that - tomes aren't nearly as amazing in this game as they were in Awakening. Second, if you're using Horse Spirit, chances are you're a fragile mage, which Horse Spirit does not do enough to remedy.

How about I provide a scenario where both it and Oni Chieftain are avaible to do something few unit can't? 

Chapter 27 Berserkers have 53 attack with a Silver Axe. A 20/15 Oni Chieftain Rinkah average 31 HP and 33 Def.

By applying a HP and Defense Tonic (+2), Rally Defense (+4), An Oni Cheiftain Pair up (+4) Horse Spirit(+3), and Weapon Triangle advantage (+2), she has effectively 48 defense. That means she takes a measly 5 damage, so even if she got crit twice she'd still be able live. Not to mention she'd only face 9% crits before buffs.

Edited November 3, 2018 by LoneRecon400

[joshcja]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

While admittedly Silas isn't the best Pair Up for her, Paladin still helps to increase her offense with Elbow Room to offset E weapons on top of giving her 8 Movement. 

Master of Arms allows her to keep her Axe Rank so she's not stuck having to deal with only E rank weapons. And later on, by feeding her an arms scroll, she's also able to use some useful weapons such as the Sword Catcher, Axe Splitter, or Beast Killer. 

And while there's nothing really worthwhile about Blacksmith, it at least means she gets to keep her Axe Rank and she doesn't have to pair up with anyone to get access to it.

How about I provide a scenario where both it and Oni Chieftain are avaible to do something few unit can't? 

Chapter 27 Berserkers have 53 attack with a Silver Axe. A 20/15 Oni Chieftain Rinkah average 31 HP and 33 Def.

By applying a HP and Defense Tonic (+2), Rally Defense (+4), An Oni Cheiftain Pair up (+4) Horse Spirit (+3), and Weapon Triangle advantage (+2), she has effectively 48 defense. That means she takes a measly 5 damage, so even if she got crit twice she'd still be able live. Not to mention she'd only face 9% crits before buffs.

This is 0 damage after pairup.

(Silias is the stronger RxS lead but OS is just a god class in BR regardless, Hyato and rhajat are also excellent OS)

[Shadow Mir]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:23 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

While admittedly Silas isn't the best Pair Up for her, Paladin still helps to increase her offense with Elbow Room to offset E weapons on top of giving her 8 Movement. 

Fair enough.

On 11/3/2018 at 9:23 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

Master of Arms allows her to keep her Axe Rank so she's not stuck having to deal with only E rank weapons. And by feeding her an arms scroll later on, she's also able to use some useful weapons such as the Sword Catcher, Axe Splitter, or Beast Killer. 

I don't really see keeping her axe rank helping much when axes don't have much in the way of useful weapons (about the only specialty axe I use is the Hammer to break armors) and clubs are just as bad, if not worse off... Also, that point about giving her an arms scroll can apply to anyone who has MoA access, so that is not much of a point in her favor.

On 11/3/2018 at 9:23 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

And while there's nothing really worthwhile about Blacksmith, it at least means she gets to keep her Axe Rank and she doesn't have to pair up with anyone to get access to it.

See above about how much keeping her axe rank doesn't help her.

On 11/3/2018 at 9:23 AM, LoneRecon400 said:

How about I provide a scenario where both it and Oni Chieftain are avaible to do something few unit can't? 

Chapter 27 Berserkers have 53 attack with a Silver Axe. A 20/15 Oni Chieftain Rinkah average 31 HP and 33 Def.

By applying a HP and Defense Tonic (+2), Rally Defense (+4), An Oni Cheiftain Pair up (+4) Horse Spirit(+3), and Weapon Triangle advantage (+2), she has effectively 48 defense. That means she takes a measly 5 damage, so even if she got crit twice she'd still be able live. Not to mention she'd only face 9% crits before buffs.

Which assumes (1) I have another Oni Chieftain around when it's already hard enough to justify just one (poor distribution, remember? Also, who am I going to seal into it?), (2) I actually consider grinding tome rank up worthwhile despite the fact that enemies are most likely going to laugh at her attempts at magic unless I go out of my way to bolster it, and (3) that I actually bother to use Rinkah that long in spite of her glaring weaknesses (because frankly, I see very little reason to use Rinkah for that long when an HP boon Corrin can tank as good or better than her from the word go). Yeah, color me unimpressed.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Shadow Mir