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New Heroes Coming: October 23rd (Brave Redux) Loki, Kliff, and Owain


Coolmanio
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1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Did people like actually want Validar in the game? Because that is justification enough to slap his "supposed weapon" on a barely related more popular alternative

 

Sure, I'd take Validar in the game. Only after most of the rest of the cast including most other villains. I admit it wouldn't be exciting to a lot of people. 

It's not like Grima's Truth needed to be on someone though so it still feels weird to me.

If we're to add one of the big time enemy dark sorcerers soon, I'd probably rather they go with the original in Gharnef.

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8 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Did people like actually want Validar in the game? Because that is justification enough to slap his "supposed weapon" on a barely related more popular alternative

 

I can speak only for myself, but I want all the Bosses ever created in this game, even more than the actual playable people.

And that includes Validar.

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9 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

I can speak only for myself, but I want all the Bosses ever created in this game, even more than the actual playable people.

And that includes Validar.

I mean i personally would have liked most villains for the pure reason of "actual FE did not allow us to use them so allow us to use them for ourselves for once". I just feel like there are cases where for lack of better words "unliked" villain would have been ok if their weapon is transplated on more popular characters. 

 

 

...And then theres Saias, a villain that made you hate his guts completely that its puts you on a conflict whether you are happy Heroes Saias isnt that good, or sad because you cant use broken as fuck Saias as shown in FE5 why even live

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Okay, actual look at characters now that I've gone through them a bit.

 

Loki
Nothing particularly special. We've seen her weapon before, so it's nothing new. A new Balm+ and Duel skill is nice for Arena score, but nothing I care for.

Kliff
Sagittae is interesting, though it really makes me wonder if all localization teams have chuuni-byou or something. Fortress Def/Res 3 is interesting that they reduced its penalty and increased its bonus, but somehow I have the feeling that Kliff might have actually liked to have the additional -1 Atk unless they made his base Atk really, really horrendously bad.

Owain
Seems to be the star of this banner. Missiletainn is a really good weapon, and Blue Flame is a really good Special on player-controlled units (and horrible on AI-controlled units).

I find it kind of funny that for once the English skill description (for Blue Flame) is more readable than the Japanese. The Japanese one reads "Adds 10 damage on activation. Adds an additional 15 damage if adjacent to an ally. Adds 25 damage maximum." I wonder if it prevents effects like Wrath and Wo Dao from adding additional damage to exceed 25 damage, though that would be weird considering Wrath is part of his default kit.

Aversa
I'm not surprised she's being given out for free. I think people have been exaggerating how stingy the developers are with free things.

 

@Coolmanio I fixed the title of your thread because it was starting to bug me. You accidentally spelled "Kliff" as "Kilff".

 

18 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Case in point, why did Lilina deserves Forblaze again?

I BURN THINGS FOR MONEY!!!!!!111

More seriously, you don't need to deserve a weapon to get it. Someone just decided to give Lilina Forblaze. She has no claim to it, but she doesn't need claim to it just to get it.

That's no different from Knoll. If Knoll gets Gleipnir (or a variant version), good for him. Someone decided that he would get Gleipnir. But he still has no claim to it. There is nothing forcing Knoll to have Gleipnir and nothing preventing Knoll from getting Gleipnir.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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ok quick question for clarification

 

@Ice Dragon Blue Flame is for all intent 3 CD moonbow because 10 damage = 31 defense moonbow, whereas once you give it the coditional effect, 25 damage is 25/8 = 31 again defense Ignis. As such, putting aside the fact that its "ALWAYS DID THAT MUCH DAMAGE" it is actually strictly worse than Black Luna which is an unconditional Reverse Ignis right?

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There was a time when unique legendary weapons were seen as something special only a few characters could get and not something so regular that it's now on so many newly released units.

So they thought some less popular characters had a greater chance at making the game because they had this canon special weapon that would make them unique, entertained some hope there and were upset when that was taken away from them.

Nowadays, anyone can get a special unique weapon anyway. They"re not really so special anymore.

I used to think Astram would make it into the game. Now I'm pretty sure either Ogma is getting Mercurius, or it'll come on Kriss.

 

Edited by Vince777
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17 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I just realized Kliff is probably the first offensive unit a person would care to have as a neutral or even -Atk bane unit, just so you can secure the effects of Saggitae against as many units as possible.

If his stats are distributed well, maybe he can do something like Henry and just dump everything into Def and kill things via Bonfire-Close Counter-Quick Riposte.

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9 minutes ago, XRay said:

If his stats are distributed well, maybe he can do something like Henry and just dump everything into Def and kill things via Bonfire-Close Counter-Quick Riposte.

one day they will create "Fat Blade" which is literally Heavy Blade but uses bulk and it will be glorious

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3 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Blue Flame is for all intent 3 CD moonbow because 10 damage = 31 defense moonbow, whereas once you give it the coditional effect, 25 damage is 25/8 = 31 again defense Ignis. As such, putting aside the fact that its "ALWAYS DID THAT MUCH DAMAGE" it is actually strictly worse than Black Luna which is an unconditional Reverse Ignis right?

In player control, Blue Flame is pretty much always 25 damage on enemy phase, which is what I consider the condition to actually be from a practical standpoint. It's a horrible skill for the AI unless they're using teleportation skills to keep Owain adjacent to his allies.

I would say that Black Luna is still the better Special skill because it's more reliable on player phase and deals more damage to the Def tanks that you want to deal more damage to.

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9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In player control, Blue Flame is pretty much always 25 damage on enemy phase, which is what I consider the condition to actually be from a practical standpoint. It's a horrible skill for the AI unless they're using teleportation skills to keep Owain adjacent to his allies.

I would say that Black Luna is still the better Special skill because it's more reliable on player phase and deals more damage to the Def tanks that you want to deal more damage to.

 

Is it even arguable Black Luna is the better one instead of definite? Both of them is 3 CD (4 CD Tier special), except Black Luna is always that whereas Blue Flame scales between Tier 2 to Tier 4

 

Maybe if FEH have Little Cup then Blue Flame can be broken

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47 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The only character that "deserves" to have Gleipnir is Lyon, but he already has Naglfar. Knoll, who is effectively Lyon's retainer, if I recall correctly, has no real claim to it other than being one of the three playable characters in the game who can use it after it is obtained.

Uh sure, but I'm not sure why you quoted me. I was talking about Grima's Truth

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3 minutes ago, XRay said:

If his stats are distributed well, maybe he can do something like Henry and just dump everything into Def and kill things via Bonfire-Close Counter-Quick Riposte.

I'm sure he'll have good Spd, Def, and Res (or at least, his starting Res is higher than Gray and Tobin) based solely on how he has good in every stat in Echoes, while his Atk is kinda... meh? Not great but not bad? Kinda reminds me of Mathilda...

Plus no matter how bad his Def is, his base kit still tacks on +9 Def, so it'll be decent no matter what.

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27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

More seriously, you don't need to deserve a weapon to get it. Someone just decided to give Lilina Forblaze. She has no claim to it, but she doesn't need claim to it just to get it.

That's no different from Knoll. If Knoll gets Gleipnir (or a variant version), good for him. Someone decided that he would get Gleipnir. But he still has no claim to it. There is nothing forcing Knoll to have Gleipnir and nothing preventing Knoll from getting Gleipnir.

Thank you. T H A N K   Y O U  !

Thank you for stating the truth. People are being ridiculous when they pretend Gleipnir was Knoll personal weapon. The only people with a claim to a Sacred Twin are royalty of that country. So Lyon for Gleipnir and Vigarde for Garm. If these people are dead or can't use the weapon, it's fair game. The only requirement is an S Weapon Rank and being from that country.

And on the same note, people have to stop pretending Duessel has a claim to Garm as well. Amelia has literally as much of a claim for the axe as him. My campaign proves that, with my mighty fine General Amelia (I love armors and Gilliam already had S rank in lances and a cool Vidofnir. I'm still mad there wasn't a 3rd armor to use Audhulma).

But the fact Duessel didn't get Garm means he can't get in the game? No, that's a silly argument, he should get in the game and I'm saying this as someone who hates horses.

Edited by GrandeRampel
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5 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

And on the same note, people have to stop pretending Duessel has a claim to Garm as well. Amelia has literally has much of a claim for the axe as him. My campaign proves that, with my mighty fine General Amelia (I love armors and Gilliam already had S rank in lances and a cool Vidofnir. I'm still mad there wasn't a 3rd armor to use Audhulma).

Theoretically Amelia could get Garn as well but I think any decent strategist would opt to give his most powerful axe to the hardened veteran and one of Grado's best generals instead of just some rookie girl. Same with Apocalypse. Raigh can get it but in canon Roy would probably sooner give it to Niime the most famous dark mage around rather than just a bratty shota he picked up along the way. 

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I'm surprised Loki came out so early, I was expecting her to come out next year, I'll have to adjust my orb plans a little. I'd like to try and summon her but I might just wait to gather more orbs, I'm not too sure. Aversa being the ghb is cool.

Edited by Zelgius
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If Kliff really is bulky then he wouldn't need to run Blarowl as Saggitae fulfills it's EP requirements with additional stats and his PP would be greater than the norm for EP Blarowl boost.

Edited by silveraura25
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I was hoping Loki wouldn't be in the summoning pool so I never had a chance of getting pitybroken by her. Surprised they gave her out this soon. At least her fans will be happy. 

Kliff and Owain have fantastic art, but neither particularly interest me, since I have countless infantry.

No interest in Aversa, but surprised she is free. I mean, she hits all the points you'd expect to see the cash signs light up. I don't like her and never planned to get her, but maybe this will change my mind.

Not really the banner I wanted, and I'm not really interested in any of their stories for forging bonds, but oh well. Hopefully they give good accessories.

Hopefully this means Hrid and Bruno will be playable soon. I want them, mostly for shallow reasons, although a male mage who isn't infantry would be amazing, no matter who it was, at this point...

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2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Theoretically Amelia could get Garn as well but I think any decent strategist would opt to give his most powerful axe to the hardened veteran and one of Grado's best generals instead of just some rookie girl. Same with Apocalypse. Raigh can get it but in canon Roy would probably sooner give it to Niime the most famous dark mage around rather than just a bratty shota he picked up along the way. 

Yeah, but Lilina still got Forblaze instead of it going to an adult, more experienced, mage so... what I'm trying to say is that unless it breaks canon (and sometimes you can even break canon if it's for the sake of a cheeky reference to the dark magic glitch, right Horse Eirika?) you can give the powerful weapons to whoever you want without a justification. You can even make up a justification on the fly. You just need to have Amelia mention that the axe was gifted to her by Duessel because:

  • he wanted to entrust the future of Grado to the youth
  • trained her himself and judged that she would be an even better wielder for the Sacred Weapon (AKA she surpassed him in stats because trainee are gods if you can grind)
  • he felt that he failed his country by not realizing sooner what happened to the emperor and for that he is unworthy of being the weilder of Garm
  • insert other explanation

People would have complained because they always do, but most people would have said: "Oh, so that's what happened. I see"

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10 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Is it even arguable Black Luna is the better one instead of definite? Both of them is 3 CD (4 CD Tier special), except Black Luna is always that whereas Blue Flame scales between Tier 2 to Tier 4

In player hands and using Owain as his skills intend him to be used, Blue Flame is always a Tier 4 Special. It's like that for the same reason that a player-controlled enemy-phase unit with a Bond skill is always considered to have the skill active in practice as opposed to bouncing between having a +5/5 skill and a +0/0 skill.

In other words, if Owain is built and used as a player-controlled enemy-phase unit, Blue Flame is on par with Black Luna (Black Luna is probably slightly better, but not by too much).

Basically, if the condition is irrelevant due to the situation always satisfying the condition or never satisfying the condition, how something performs in the other situation is also irrelevant. At least, that's my opinion on the matter.

 

A similar concept is enemy-phase melee units without Distant Counter. I normally see no reason to care if they can or can't tank ranged units because they shouldn't usually be doing so unless they are specifically built to do so (most notably several builds on Brave Ike and Sigurd).

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On this banner I only really care for Kliff but that's enough. I'll probably pull for him and there aren't any other focus blue units who will be getting in my way.

But on this talk about some games not getting their due, I hear a lot of talk about this supposed lack of interest in Tellius and I don't really get that one. Tellius has Ike which means it will always has a certain Smash appeal and it was a game released to the west which means everyone had a chance to play it. Its not really in the same position as Tracia which was a Japanese only game and a side story to boot. If Jugdral is deemed important enough to be given a lot of love and attention then I don't see what's holding Tellius back.

The Tellius games should logically be in a better position than a lot of its peers. Its not Japanese only like Tracia, genealogy and binding blade, its more impressive than Sacred Stones which only had one game and unlike Blazing sword its got Smash appeal. Ike himself is constantly shown to still be a very popular character and whatever the sales have been the reputation of Tellius in the community has always been stellar. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In player hands and using Owain as his skills intend him to be used, Blue Flame is always a Tier 4 Special. It's like that for the same reason that a player-controlled enemy-phase unit with a Bond skill is always considered to have the skill active in practice as opposed to bouncing between having a +5/5 skill and a +0/0 skill.

In other words, if Owain is built and used as a player-controlled enemy-phase unit, Blue Flame is on par with Black Luna (Black Luna is probably slightly better, but not by too much).

Basically, if the condition is irrelevant due to the situation always satisfying the condition or never satisfying the condition, how something performs in the other situation is also irrelevant. At least, that's my opinion on the matter.

 

A similar concept is enemy-phase melee units without Distant Counter. I normally see no reason to care if they can or can't tank ranged units because they shouldn't usually be doing so unless they are specifically built to do so (most notably several builds on Brave Ike and Sigurd).

fair enough

 

Little Cup Owain when though

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

It is their primary motivation and expecting them to act otherwise is not realistic. Sure, maybe they will act altruistically once in a while, but you should not expect them to always act in your favor.

That's the point -- being a primary motivator is fine, no one is expecting otherwise. Expecting one Thracia or Binding Blade banner every 1.5 years is absolutely not unrealistic and it's hardly "altruistic" of IS to provide players with such. Whatever "deficit"-- if it even exists --  that a Binding Blade or Tellius banner would provide is surely going to be overshadowed by the ridiculous amount of Awakening and Fates releases anyway. 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Most of those units are part of a desirable class and/or comes with or have access to powerful skills to make them sellable.

Lene came out at a time where dancers were already over-abundant, sword valour was already on two other units in the permanent pool, an outclassed B-skill compared to Wings of Mercy and a niche weapon. And yet, due to her appeal to the main demographic of Heroes, she became more sought out than Ares who had a brazen skill and interesting weapon. 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Listening to fans once in while is not done because it is the ethical thing to do, it is done because it is the profitable thing to do. Expecting them to do exactly as you say is unreasonable at best, and unless a huge portion of the fandom starts to demand Thracia and Binding Blade Foci, they are not going to release them anytime soon in 6 to 12 months.

It's on it's way to being two years. It's absolutely not unreasonable for fans to ask for one banner for Binding Blade, Tellius or Valentia a year. Literally no one was demanding an Awakening or Fates banner after just having a terrible Chrom alt/Hinoka alt banner and yet they get another banner in 3-4 months, despite the general consensus that these banners were bad to pull on. Cipher, which also has a Fates bias, but didn't at all ignore Thracia or Binding Blade. So why should Heroes get a pass? It shouldn't.

 

Edited by TheWill
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7 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I was hoping Loki wouldn't be in the summoning pool so I never had a chance of getting pitybroken by her. Surprised they gave her out this soon. At least her fans will be happy. 

Kliff and Owain have fantastic art, but neither particularly interest me, since I have countless infantry.

No interest in Aversa, but surprised she is free. I mean, she hits all the points you'd expect to see the cash signs light up. I don't like her and never planned to get her, but maybe this will change my mind.

Not really the banner I wanted, and I'm not really interested in any of their stories for forging bonds, but oh well. Hopefully they give good accessories.

Hopefully this means Hrid and Bruno will be playable soon. I want them, mostly for shallow reasons, although a male mage who isn't infantry would be amazing, no matter who it was, at this point...

Oh come on Cute Chao, you were precisely who I had in mind when I said people would be happy about the equal treatment of genders in this banner, with even a female free unit instead of a male one, and yet you don't seem happy at all. :(

I can understand not being particularly interested in the units themselves, but cheer up my friend. It's still a step in the right direction.

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8 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Oh come on Cute Chao, you were precisely who I had in mind when I said people would be happy about the equal treatment of genders in this banner, with even a female free unit instead of a male one, and yet you don't seem happy at all. :(

I can understand not being particularly interested in the units themselves, but cheer up my friend. It's still a step in the right direction.

The difference is, this banner doesn't annoy me like others have. It's a nice surprise to see it being turned around. However, this is just a one off (I suppose two off with the Jugdral banner, but we've then had the Halloween banner true to form... Dorcas being a nice addition, at least) and with characters I'm really interested in, to boot. If they continue to make it like this, then hopefully you'll see positive me posts. I just don't trust them at all still. 

Edited by Cute Chao
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Since I apparently forgot to mention in my one post on my thoughts on the banner, I'm glad there are no must-haves for me on the banner, so my wallet's at least kind of safe for one banner.

I'll pull for one copy of each of them. Maybe two of Owain since he's been growing on me, but that's about it.

 

2 minutes ago, TheWill said:

Lene came out at a time where dancers were already over-abundant, sword valour was already on two other units in the permanent pool, an outclassed B-skill compared to Wings of Mercy and a niche weapon.

As of Lene being released, we only had three dancers in the regular summoning pool, and two of them were 5-star exclusive. All of the other dancers were limited-release characters. I'd hardly call that over-abundant.

Sword Valor may have already existed in the regular summoning pool, but it's still a skill that is valuable and in demand. I'm also not convinced that Firestorm Dance is strictly outclassed by Wings of Mercy because they both serve different and viable purposes.

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