Random thought about armies in fire emblem.

[Francie]

Bit of a thought I had and decided to expand on after watching the three houses trailer again.

What if every unit in the fire emblem games is actually a unit of soldiers, and the lead unit is the captain.

it would give some realism to genealogy because one horse taking up what is essentially a 10km^2 space is pretty unrealistic.

And the healers are mostly religious because they can make the soldiers in the unit pray, boosting morale and to some extent regaining their health.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but it's something interesting to consider.

[Dragoncat]

Yeah, a bit of a stretch. And I think healers just have magic staves. Even if they are often religious.

[omegaxis1]

16 minutes ago, Francie said:

Bit of a thought I had and decided to expand on after watching the three houses trailer again.

What if every unit in the fire emblem games is actually a unit of soldiers, and the lead unit is the captain.

it would give some realism to genealogy because one horse taking up what is essentially a 10km^2 space is pretty unrealistic.

And the healers are mostly religious because they can make the soldiers in the unit pray, boosting morale and to some extent regaining their health.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but it's something interesting to consider.

This is a widespread thing that many people have come to believe is the case. With the exception of FE7, where the units you have is everything you take. 

In FE4, it really wouldn't work if it's just the named units, but especially in Gen 2. FE5 confirms that Seliph's army is much bigger than the named units, in that Seliph somehow commands an army that's 10x the size of Leif's, so it cannot be just the named characters.

[Francie]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

This is a widespread thing that many people have come to believe is the case

oh

I wasn't aware of that being widespread.

interesting.

Genealogy is defenitely the main inspiration I thought about when thinking about this.

Although I was not aware that Seliph commanded such a big army, huh.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

oh

I wasn't aware of that being widespread.

interesting.

Genealogy is defenitely the main inspiration I thought about when thinking about this.

Although I was not aware that Seliph commanded such a big army, huh.

It wasn't implied in Genealogy, but in Thracia 776, in Chapter 21, this is said:

Quote

August:
“Lord Leaf, how was your meeting with Lord Celice?”

Leaf:
“He’s an admirable individual. I can’t believe he’s only a year older than me.”

August:
“Yes. He has gathered an army ten times our size, and has crossed the Yied desert at that young age. He is quite a figure.”

 

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

This is a widespread thing that many people have come to believe is the case. With the exception of FE7, where the units you have is everything you take.

Personally, I would think there's more "exceptions" across the series. They're just not whole-game-long like Blazing Sword, yes. Usually some protagonists begin with what we see until they meet up with a bigger force.

[DarthR0xas]

Examples of this not being the case.

Fire Emblem 1, although you get so many units that you may as well be commanding an actual army.

Fire Emblem 2, before you reach the Deliverance hideout.

Fire Emblem 3, remake, although some things might have changed.

Fire Emblem 4 and 5 have already been discussed.

Fire Emblem 6. I actually think that we control singular units, while other larger powers like Etraria (I misspelled that, I know, but I forget the right spelling), providing the bulk of the military force. I can't imagine Roy's army really has much, since the Lycian League was racked with instability, and a very efficient attack from Bern in which even Hector was killed. Maybe a couple hundred extra troops we don't see, but since this does occur in the same universe as FE7, I dunno.

Fire Emblem 7, already discussed

Fire Emblem 8, basically the entire early game before the route split. I'd actually wager that you stick to a small force throughout the game. Ephraim has only the men he brings since he is a perfect and unkillable tactician, and Eirika since Renais doesn't really have many troops who can spare. Plus their world seems pretty small, Eirika is basically able to traverse the entire continent's y-axis in a few short days. Maybe when they reach Raustean, maybe, they get more troops, but I still doubt it.

Fire Emblems 9 and 10, there are absolutely more troops than shown, however often we do see explanations for why we just see our characters, like Ike's squad acting as a smaller distraction force and the like. For the early Dawn Brigade and before meeting Sanaki parts of these games, they pretty much are what they are shown to be.

Fire Emblem 11, remake, never played, might've changed.

Fire Emblem 12, same as above.

Fire Emblem 13, yeah, you probably get a large army very soon, at least for the Valm arc.

Fire Emblem 14, for the first 8-ish chapters you for sure don't have an army, and this goes on for longer in Conquest since Garon is sending you on suicide mission without many, or any troops. By the Xander joining chapter, Corrin is leading an army for sure. Birthright you control an army pretty fast. Revelations, I forget, but I assume that Corrin gains control fast, unless he went into Valla with like 30 people.

Fire Emblem 15, same as Gaiden. But since I forgot to mention it there, Celica's party is most certainly all that she has, and Alm's party as they enter the tower is all that he has. Thabes is also Alm/Celica's partys only, I would assume.

Heroes, Only what you bring

TMS, Only what you bring

Three Houses, we finally see the armies.

[Acacia Sgt]

55 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Fire Emblem 1, although you get so many units that you may as well be commanding an actual army.

Fire Emblem 3, remake, although some things might have changed.

Fire Emblem 11, remake, never played, might've changed.

In these cases (taking only into account Book 1 for now), it only counts upon reaching Aurelis. In Shadow Dragon at least, the enemies often talk about Marth leading a coalition of Altean, Aurelian, and Archanean forces (like in that silly "League of A's" quote), so he was definitely commanding nameless redshirts since at least after meeting up with Hardin. Arguibly, you could say Marth had redshirts with him since the start, as it's likely there were much more Altean refugees in Talys than just the PC's, and likely also left with Marth to reclaim their homeland. I would be surprised if Draug was really the only soldier in that ship in the remake's prologue chapters.

55 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Fire Emblem 6. I actually think that we control singular units, while other larger powers like Etraria (I misspelled that, I know, but I forget the right spelling), providing the bulk of the military force. I can't imagine Roy's army really has much, since the Lycian League was racked with instability, and a very efficient attack from Bern in which even Hector was killed. Maybe a couple hundred extra troops we don't see, but since this does occur in the same universe as FE7, I dunno.

After the events in Etruria, it's made quite clear Roy is leading the Lycian-Etrurian coalition, so it's deifinitely not an exception. In fact, the whole game isn't. From Eliwood's talk with Roy before departing to Araphen, it sounds like Pherae's army hasn't yet gone there. Considering the troops that were still in Ostia, Thria, Laus, etc, it sounds each territory has it's own army in addition to the main Lycian one. As someone who plays Crusader Kings 2, this is totally a case of Hector having called his vassals to raise their personal levies to complement his own, so Roy leads the percentage of Eliwood's personal levy that Hector is authorized to command. Adding to that the narrative states Roy brings the whole of the (reorganized) Lycian Army to the Western Isles, and then the before mentioned merge with the Etrurian Army to liberate Illia and Sacae, then yes, Binding Blade as a whole is no exception. Roy is always commanding redshirts in addition to the PC's.

55 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Fire Emblem 8, basically the entire early game before the route split. I'd actually wager that you stick to a small force throughout the game. Ephraim has only the men he brings since he is a perfect and unkillable tactician, and Eirika since Renais doesn't really have many troops who can spare. Plus their world seems pretty small, Eirika is basically able to traverse the entire continent's y-axis in a few short days. Maybe when they reach Raustean, maybe, they get more troops, but I still doubt it.

I'd half disagree here. Ephraim at least is definitely leading the Freilan army to attack Grado in either route, so in his route we can say there are more people than we see. So it can only count as "we only have what we see" for Eirika's route, at least until the reunion, since I'd think Freila's army is still accompanying them for the liberation of Renair and the trip to Rausten.

55 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Fire Emblem 3, remake, although some things might have changed.

Fire Emblem 12, same as above.

I would say Marth's second adventure is not an exception either. Since the start, it's stated Marth brought at the least a good portion of Altea's army with him to Grust, and that's the beginning of the game (discounting the remake's prologue chapters).

---

Unless I'm missing something, I agree with the rest of the post.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[eclipse]

FE9 would like to have a word with you.

Spoiler

There's a pic of Ike addressing an army in-game, and there's no way that all of those guys are your playable units.

Anyway, off to General FE with you~!

[Ertrick36]

Yeah, I at least feel like it'd be the case in games like Genealogy or Fates.  I even remember someone calling Oboro "captain" in Warriors, and there's a scene where you see Takumi running onto the battlefield with a personal vanguard and then the next moment you see pretty much no one by his side on the map.  And as someone said, there's a part in Thracia where August - a well informed man - straight up says Seliph's army is massive.  So I feel like most characters in those games hold authority over a number of troops.  Only exception would be Nyx; her having a detachment would defeat the purpose of her character as a societal reject.

In Awakening, it doesn't feel like you have a proper army until you engage in open warfare with Gangrel.  Every chapter leading up to that, it's more like a tight knit detachment of elite soldiers.  But by the time you're storming forts in Valm, you definitely have a full army.

In Marth's games, I feel like he always has an army at his back.  There's no way they sailed off to Talys with only six guys and then went on to fight the most powerful nations in the world with a small, ragtag band of heroes.  This applies even moreso in Book 2, where he's ordered to quell a rebellion; he ain't just going there with a few recruit officers.

Thracia definitely feels like they're all just going in on their own.  The whole point of the game was to take on a smaller scale than Genealogy, and it'd feel a little weird if characters like Homer or Shannam were leading teams of their own.  Though it'd be absolutely hilarious if those hypothetical teams were actually just girls fawning over them.

And Alm's side in Gaiden/Echoes is definitely an army.  Celica could maybe have a few from the clergy helping her out, and maybe Saber has a small mercenary band... but there's no way her army is of the same scale as Alm's.  The only characters who'd have bulk units would be the Whitewings (respected captains) and maybe Valbar, though the latter would, at best, be the leader of a larger mercenary band than Saber's.

 

In any event, I do enjoy the fact that FE is now having all the units as proper detachments.  I feel like it'll give the story a sense of realism, knowing that it isn't just a small band of animes but several teams of soldiers.  Oh, and formations...  I can't wait to finally form a proper phalanx with some armor knights to make an impenetrable defense, or a square formation to crush those pesky cavaliers.

[Vince777]

I generally just assume my units are a smaller elite hit squad within a much larger army.

 

[Sand55]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:49 PM, Francie said:

Bit of a thought I had and decided to expand on after watching the three houses trailer again.

What if every unit in the fire emblem games is actually a unit of soldiers, and the lead unit is the captain.

it would give some realism to genealogy because one horse taking up what is essentially a 10km^2 space is pretty unrealistic.

And the healers are mostly religious because they can make the soldiers in the unit pray, boosting morale and to some extent regaining their health.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but it's something interesting to consider.

Yeah I sometimes think of each individual character as being representative of a military unit consisting of multiple people. But sometimes I just indulge in the idea that Walhart's massive, continent-spanning army only consists of like 40 people.