New Legendary Hero: Eirika

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Water Mage said:

Again, can’t you read context? Of course Eirika knows Lyon can’t be saved, but she’s having an extremely hard time accepting it. So when Lyon appears before an Eirika , that is incredibly tired after fighting in a volcano, and tell her “I can be saved”, she wants to believe even though she knows it’s impossible to save him.

Again, can't you read that I did read the context? It still. Does not. Make sense. To me.

4 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Well, as has been said to you twice with no contesting from you, said villain did not look like a possessed villain and manipulated the feelings of a very emotional person who considered the same guy she was talking to as one of her best friends.

She knew he was possessed though.

4 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Maybe it's an opinion that you consider morally right, but it's no fact, just like how "Ike is the worst FE lord" is not a fact and you'd consider that morally wrong.

If some people think Ike is the worst, that's their opinion. I don't really care.

[Water Mage]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Again, can't you read that I did read the context? It still. Does not. Make sense. To me.

She was distraught. She was tired after fighting inside a volcano. She wanted to save Lyon. So when the easy solution appeared before while she was incredibly distraught, she obviously fell into the trap, because she was so desperate to save Lyon.

[NoirCore]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Again, can't you read that I did read the context? It still. Does not. Make sense. To me.

She knew he was possessed though.

If some people think Ike is the worst, that's their opinion. I don't really care.

But her emotions still screwed her over. Sometimes, your emotions cause denial to cause you to not think objectively, and that's what happened to Eirika.

And if you think Eirika giving Lyon the stone was not justified at all, that's only your opinion, too. Not a fact as you claim. I said Ike as an example.

Edited October 30, 2018 by NoirCore

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Again, can't you read that I did read the context? It still. Does not. Make sense. To me.

Yes. It does. Lyon was her friend. A dear friend that she knew for a long time. It doesn't matter how much people tell you it's impossible, no matter what your head tells you. The heart doesn't accept things so easily. No matter how much Eirika knows that Lyon is possessed, hears how he cannot be saved, her heart doesn't want to accept that the dear friend that she had cared for is gone forever. 

 

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yes. It does.

You cannot say what does and doesn't make sense to me, so please don't.

[daisy jane]

Gosh. 
all of this arguing is really making me hope that I can play Sacred Stones one day. This sounds so amazingly awesome!
(Make it happen, IS. thanks)

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, daisy jane said:

Gosh. 
all of this arguing is really making me hope that I can play Sacred Stones one day. This sounds so amazingly awesome!
(Make it happen, IS. thanks)

Sacred Stones is a great game. I advise going Ephraim's route though, when you come to the choice between him and Eirika. It's the more difficult route, I think, but the more fun one too, and Ephraim >>>>>>>>> Eirika. At least to me, obviously. But you could also try both routes and see which one you like better for yourself.

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You cannot say what does and doesn't make sense to me, so please don't.

Okay. We can say, however, what makes sense to a normal, rational human being.

We possess this quality called empathy (well, most of us do anyway). That empathy causes us to become attached to other human beings and weigh their well-being over that of some nebulous greater good, which we understand in concept, but cannot comprehend on an emotional level.

Eirika chose wrong in practice. She did not choose wrong in accordance with human empathy.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Etheus

[NoirCore]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yes. It does. Lyon was her friend. A dear friend that she knew for a long time. It doesn't matter how much people tell you it's impossible, no matter what your head tells you. The heart doesn't accept things so easily. No matter how much Eirika knows that Lyon is possessed, hears how he cannot be saved, her heart doesn't want to accept that the dear friend that she had cared for is gone forever. 

 

This. I think I can say many people in life have gone through situations where despite the facts presented to them, they went into denial about it due to their emotions. It's a trope in media, too; look at all the times the hero fights their seemingly lost forever friend possessed by some evil force and despite being told they're lost forever, the hero keeps shouting "I know you're in there somewhere" and the sound of the hero's voice reaches their lost friend and they begin to fight back.

Edited October 30, 2018 by NoirCore

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You cannot say what does and doesn't make sense to me, so please don't.

Oh okay, then how about you actually try to understand? If you refuse to, then please do not say things and say it's 100% fact.

[GrandeRampel]

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Difference is, Ephraim is actually a powerful warrior and very capable leader. Eirika is canonically neither.

Okay, first of all Ephraim trained her so she has to be capable of fighting well, maybe not exactly a powerful warrior, but a skilled and elegant one.

And if that's the difference, then it means that only badass fighters who kick ass can be Legendary Heroes. And yet you want Elincia to be a legendary hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but the most notable thing Elincia did with her sword was dropping it like a dumb-dumb to prove a point in front of two big armies. Thank Naga Ike was there to save her or the senator's men would have killed her right now. How is Elincia more worthy than Eirika? Eirika would kick her butt in a duel any day of the week with her powerful Sieglinde.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Okay. We can say, however, what makes sense to a normal, rational human being.

So you're calling me an abnormal, irrational person? How extremely fucking rude. Please go away.

[Water Mage]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

This. I think I can say many people in life have gone through situations where despite the facts presented to them, they went into denial about it due to their emotions. It's a trope in media, too; look at all the times the hero fights their seemingly lost forever friend possessed by some evil force and despite being told they're lost forever, the sound of the hero's voice reaches their lost friend and they begin to fight back.

And there’s more, Eirika accepting that Lyon is possessed, is accepting that her friend, who she always knew as a kind and gentle person, is the one to blame for alp the atrocities that happened in Magvel and Lyon is the one to blame for her father’s death.

So it’s only natural she can’t accept it!

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

And if that's the difference, then it means that only badass fighters who kick ass can be Legendary Heroes. And yet you want Elincia to be a legendary hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but the most notable thing Elincia did with her sword was dropping it like a dumb-dumb to prove a point in front of two big armies. Thank Naga Ike was there to save her or the senator's men would have killed her right now. How is Elincia more worthy than Eirika? Eirika would kick her butt in a duel any day of the week with her powerful Sieglinde.

She formed an army to take back Crimea from a tyrant. She made the extremely difficult decision to let her sister figure die to protect her people and country. And she later led said country to a golden age. That's pretty legendary. In Elincia's case, it's not so much about her battle skills, but her deeds as a queen to her country.

How do you know whether or not Elincia or Eirika would win in a duel? None of us can really say for sure who would.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Anacybele

[Michelaar]

Can we stop with this complete baloney discussion about whether Eirika is worthy of being legendary or not, or if she is dumb or not. It doesn't matter whether she is dumb or not, different people can have different opinions and views, and I don't think we should insult anyone for it. I personally agree with Water mage and the others, but if Ana doesn't agree with me, that is of no concern to me and it should not be of any concern to you. As for the worthy discussion. It's stupid. You don't get to decide who's worthy. Stop this at once.

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

This. I think I can say many people in life have gone through situations where despite the facts presented to them, they went into denial about it due to their emotions. It's a trope in media, too; look at all the times the hero fights their seemingly lost forever friend possessed by some evil force and despite being told they're lost forever, the hero keeps shouting "I know you're in there somewhere" and the sound of the hero's voice reaches their lost friend and they begin to fight back.

 

2 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

And there’s more, Eirika accepting that Lyon is possessed, is accepting that her friend, who she always knew as a kind and gentle person, is the one to blame for alp the atrocities that happened in Magvel and Lyon is the one to blame for her father’s death.

So it’s only natural she can’t accept it!

Exactly. It's an extremely painful thing for Eirika to accept. 

To refer to another franchise, Naruto:

Spoiler

Naruto's biggest driving force in the series was to get Sasuke back after Sasuke left the village. Naruto was told time and time again, that Sasuke was beyond salvation. His mentor, his friends, even the girl that loved Sasuke, told Naruto that Sasuke was beyond hope. But Naruto refused to give up because Sasuke was his dear friend. And in the end, he did save Sasuke. 

 

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

21 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I mean, going by Ghast's analysis, I think she was written very well until those two scenes when the writing dropped the ball. She's complex. That's why I like Celica.

But I agree with your points on Eirika, not to mention that's not the canon path...I think? In any case, this doesn't happen in Ephraim's route. Eirika's doesn't have the true final boss, so...

In fairness to you then, I will have to make a note to listen to Ghast's analysis.

Though she is starting from a low point where I'm concerned. I have a distaste for religion, for deeply personal reasons, that makes me inherently negatively predisposed towards such characters.

[GrandeRampel]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

She formed an army to take back Crimea from a tyrant. She made the extremely difficult decision to let her sister figure die to protect her people and country. And she later led said country to a golden age. That's pretty legendary. In Elincia's case, it's not so much about her battle skills, but her deeds as a queen to her country.

How do you know whether or not Elincia or Eirika would win in a duel? None of us can really say for sure who would.

So if battle skill is not the only reason acceptable for legendary status and the reason for Elincia's legendary status is her making difficult decision and being a good queen, then I can say Eirika's reason for legendary status is having made the difficult decision to fight and kill her best friend despite her emotional side screaming that there was surely another way.

Every single person has an emotional side and a rational side, some people have both sides in balance, others have one side being particularly prominent. Eirika has the emotional side VEERY prominent and yet she still chose to listen to the rational side and make the right decision in the end. This is not easy feat. And as much as the people with the developed rational side would like you to think otherwise, the rational side isn't always the better one, and without emphatic and emotional people our world would be very grey.

This is the same issue I have with people that say Camus characters are dumb because fighting to the death for the clearly evil side when you are a good person is not rational.

What's rational isn't the point! We are not machines who act only in the most efficient way. There are a lot of contrasting emotions we humans are capable of that often make zero sense. Like when we love someone but also hate them.

If you people aren't capable of noticing such things, or you find them useless that's fine, you do you. But at least try to understand that there are plenty of people who have complicated emotions who would have made the same choice Eirika made. And they are not stupid for it.

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

To add on the list of people not bashing Eirika, I'm also very pleased to see her. Sacred Stones was my first game so I'm quite fond of her as the first character I met. Plus I don't want to start arguing with anyone but I'll say this: Eirika is the protagonist of SS just as much as Ephraim is. She is playable for more chapters than him, she has her own Story Mode who is treated equally to her brother's Story Mode, she can deal the final blow on the final boss (no Radiant Dawn bullshit yey) and no matter how much you dislike her personality, saying she isn't on the same level to Ephraim or that she deserves less than him is quick way to go in my shitlist, and in Ephraim's shitlist too.

Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more, nor can I understand the people who dismiss her and play up Ephraim instead. Thank you! And thank you for speaking up for her after this comment too.

On topic, what other units could use Atk/ Spd Solo well? Not that I'd fodder Eirika, I'm just curious.

Edited October 30, 2018 by DefyingFates

[redlight]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more, nor can I understand the people who dismiss her and play up Ephraim instead. Thank you!

On topic, what other units could use Atk/ Spd Solo well? Not that I'd fodder Eirika, I'm just curious.

Nanna and Genny. Genny can be buffed by speed quite easily with double drive SPD. I'm personally hoping for 3 Eirikas. 1 to keep and the other two for the healers I mentioned

If you think someone is being toxic or you can't stand hearing what they say then either report a toxic post for reviewing (don't use this if you just disagree with someone) with the little flag icon or go up to your username and click the arrow to select "blocked users"

Edited October 30, 2018 by silveraura25

[DefyingFates]

3 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Nanna and Genny. Genny can be buffed by a speed quite easily with double drive SPD. I'm personally hoping for 3 Eirikas. 1 to keep and the other two for the healers I mentioned

That makes sense. It reminds me that I actually have a 4* Nanna too; I should train her.

P.S. As someone used to hearing people bash Eirika and praise Ephraim, it does my heart good to see so many people support her here. Thanks, guys!

Also, @daisy jane; did you buy a 3DS at launch? If so you should have FE8 for free.

[redlight]

People bring up Ephraim taking over castle with just 4 men including himself. I bring up Orson doing most of the job himself

[Anacybele]

22 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

So if battle skill is not the only reason acceptable for legendary status and the reason for Elincia's legendary status is her making difficult decision and being a good queen, then I can say Eirika's reason for legendary status is having made the difficult decision to fight and kill her best friend despite her emotional side screaming that there was surely another way.

Is that all? Did Eirika also become a great/powerful queen? Lead her people to a great age or something? We don't really know. She didn't form an army either, Ephraim mostly took care of that.

11 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

nor can I understand the people who dismiss her and play up Ephraim instead.

I guess we're opposites then. I can't understand those who bash Ephraim, but play up Eirika instead. Just saying.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Anacybele

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

On topic, what other units could use Atk/ Spd Solo well? Not that I'd fodder Eirika, I'm just curious.

Every single player-phase unit in the game. The skill is effectively Swift Sparrow 3 (plus Kestrel Stance 3) with a very lenient positioning restriction.

Right now, the top-end player-phase skills are

• Death Blow 4: Used on units that don't care about their Spd stat at all, either because they are too slow to reliably double anything or because they have a skill that allows them to double based on other criteria.
• Atk/Spd Solo 3: Used on pretty much everything else.
• Swift Sparrow 2: Used in place of Atk/Spd Solo 3 for units that teleport.
• Fury 3: Used on frail units that need the boost to defenses to survive a counterattack.

[Fabulously Olivier]

This entire argument about whether or not Eirika deserves the honor is silly because it stems from an inherently silly post. The same person who started this:

> Claims that Eirika hasn't done anything legendary.

> Immediately states that Hrid should be legendary. This is despite him having done literally nothing but stand there and look muscular in his ridiculous outfit for 5 seconds. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Etheus