DMan64 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 So I want to start with all my prayers, love and respect goes out to all of those affected by the shooting this past week, and no matter what you may think of Trump's decision to come to Pittsburgh, all I ask is that you keep any discussion respectful here. But the reason I made this post is because I myself live Pittsburgh, and have lived there for all my life, and that day for me was perhaps one of the most intense in my life. My father at that time was in the area at lunch with a date when the events occurred, and without getting too into it unfortunately one of the victims of the shooting happened to be a member of the community I am from, coming only a short walk away from where I live. Honestly, just being able to talk about my feelings anywhere on the matter helps a ton, partly because right now many people in the area are very tense about the situation(even more so now since as I'm writing this Trump will soon be arriving in the city). Part of what made this so hard for everyone around our community was that Pittsburgh, in general, has always been a city about its community, from all walks of life. No matter your ethical background, sexual preference, or political alignment, or religious beliefs, their was always a sense of community, and it felt like no bad could ever happen, and very rarely, if at all has anything truly horrific happened in the city. So when you hear the news that perhaps the most deadly anti-Semitic shootings in the history of our nation happened at your own home, and one so close knit as what I'm used to, there's truly no way I can really describe it other than soul-wrenching. I guess really why I'm making this is that I want to find some semblance of solace with the situation because already I have a lot going on in my life right now; with college, a new job, and a complicated family relationship, and a copious amount of anxiety, so getting out my feelings about the situation right now feels like the best I can do. All I ask is that you remember how precious love and life are, and please send all your prayers to those affected by the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 @Anacybele You Pittsburghers have to stick together! Hugs and prayers from Wyoming. One of the victims survived the Holocaust :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dragoncat said: @Anacybele You Pittsburghers have to stick together! Hugs and prayers from Wyoming. One of the victims survived the Holocaust :( Yes, yes we do! Thanks, Dcat! And yeah... This was not the deadliest anti-Semitic shooting though. Don't forget that gay bar shooting in Florida that cost 50 lives. This was a hate crime too. I might not have lived here all my life, but I spent the first six years of my life here and returned many times for visits until I finally did move back last year. Edited October 30, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Anacybele said: This was not the deadliest anti-Semitic shooting though. Don't forget that gay bar shooting in Florida that cost 50 lives. This was a hate crime too. It seems like EVERY shooting is called the deadliest for some reason. Regardless of how many got killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: It seems like EVERY shooting is called the deadliest for some reason. Regardless of how many got killed. Yeah, that term shouldn't be thrown around like that. Every shooting is deadly, but some are factually worse than others. 50 lives is much worse than the 11 lost in that synagogue. Also, it's worse when children are involved... Sandy Hook Elementary comes to mind. 20 children and two teachers. During Christmas time. I still think that one was worse, despite it not being a hate crime, just some messed up in the head teenage kid and his parents being irresponsible about their weapons. That one could've been avoided entirely if the parents had just been more responsible for their weapons and child. And this is why it's not entirely a gun issue like the Democrats want it to be. We could use better background checks and all, and I think the legal age to own a gun should be higher, but this alone won't fix anything. We have to have more responsibility for PEOPLE too. People kill people, not guns. If this shooter at the synagogue couldn't get a gun, he would've probably made a bomb. Or found a grenade and tossed it in the building. Or something. When someone wants to kill a bunch of people, they'll find a way, guns or not. Mentally ill people need to be kept in check so they don't hurt themselves or others. People need awareness and should report suspicious things they see online and in public. This shooter posted about what he was going to do beforehand and no one did anything about that! Not every post mentioning a gun or some kind of hate is going to lead to violence, but if you see something like "I'm going to kill some gays tomorrow" reporting it is the right thing to do, regardless if it actually leads anywhere. Edited October 30, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Anacybele said: (politics) While those are some good points, I think you should maybe edit out the part about "stupid Democrats" because...yeah. I'm neither but I lean toward Democrat. But the two party system should be done away with. All it does is turn people against each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Changed the topic title because your original one was literal clickbait (as in, I'd have to click on the topic to know WTF it was about). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dragoncat said: While those are some good points, I think you should maybe edit out the part about "stupid Democrats" because...yeah. I'm neither but I lean toward Democrat. But the two party system should be done away with. All it does is turn people against each other. Yeah, perhaps you're right. Democrats just make me so mad sometimes. And I agree, the two party system should go away because lately it's just making people want to rip each other's heads off. Edited October 30, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan64 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Thanks a bunch for all the prayers and support. And for the record I know that every shooting is deadly no matter what, I guess since it was just so close to home and my father was so close when it happened it just really shook me up a lot, and when people throw terms like "deadliest" around it doesn't make things any better. There have of course been higher degrees of violence with other groups, so keeping that perspective is important. And I totally agree, the way the political system is right now is totally a mess and needs to seriously get a change. It really does feel like constant arguing with nothing really getting done, it other words just rhetoric. (NOTE: When I say anti-Semitic, I'm more specifically referring to its uses as essentially a synonym for Jewish, since that's what its typically associated with.) @eclipse Understandable and apologies for that, wasn't my intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, DMan64 said: Thanks a bunch for all the prayers and support. And for the record I know that every shooting is deadly no matter what, I guess since it was just so close to home and my father was so close when it happened it just really shook me up a lot, and when people throw terms like "deadliest" around it doesn't make things any better. There have of course been higher degrees of violence with other groups, so keeping that perspective is important. And I totally agree, the way the political system is right now is totally a mess and needs to seriously get a change. It really does feel like constant arguing with nothing really getting done, it other words just rhetoric. Yeah, exactly. It's just one big stupid mess. 10 minutes ago, DMan64 said: (NOTE: When I say anti-Semitic, I'm more specifically referring to its uses as essentially a synonym for Jewish, since that's what its typically associated with.) Oh, I didn't know that, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodHoms Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) My sincerest condolences to the victims of this terrible crime, and to you two as well @DMan64 and @Anacybele, you guys must be having it pretty rough right now living through it. It unfortunate to say that mass shootings are a multi faceted issue with many contributing factors and no easy solution. Our current gun laws need to be much more strictly enforced with new ones possibly introduced, we need more thorough background checks for the purchase of firearms, we need to take better care of the mentally unstable, we need crack down on black market sales of powerful weapons, and the list just keeps growing and growing. As for the controversial response of our president, I think it's unfair to say we need armed guards protecting our Churches/Synagogues/Mosques. Our places of worship are supposed to be places of peace and unity, the presence of an armed guards conflicts with that mission, driving people away rather than welcoming them in. At least that's how I see things as a lifelong Roman Catholic. But I wouldn't dwell on the president too much, what matters is that we learn from this tragedy and do what we can to prevent it from happening again. Edited October 31, 2018 by TheGoodHoms Spell cheek. Added a sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 This is one of the first times I was informed of something like this only moments after it had happened. I still find it surreal that this tragedy happened only an hour or two earlier when I was reading through an article someone had shared about it. My thoughts and prayers go to the families, communities, and all those involved with this terrible event. It was also a rather nasty reminder of why some of the pastors at my church carry a firearm on them while preaching, as well as why the various police officers that go to our church come to service armed. I still find it sickening that people tried to turn this into a political situation to demonize or blame either side. Are we no longer allowed to mourn the needless loss of life without turning it into a demoralizing debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, Hawkwing said: I still find it sickening that people tried to turn this into a political situation to demonize or blame either side. Are we no longer allowed to mourn the needless loss of life without turning it into a demoralizing debate? Oh man preach it. This is why I said the two party system needs to go away. That and when I went to vote last, I couldn't vote for governor or mayor because I was unaffiliated and my mom could only vote for Republicans because that's what she registered as. It annoys me. Why can't we just vote for whoever we want regardless of party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan64 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Agreed with all of that. I myself am not very religious, though when I used to go to church I always admired how much of a welcoming place it was and how nice the people were, and its sad to see how hard line institutions have become throughout the past few years because of events like these. Just a few weeks ago I found out that my old high school now has security guards throughout, and students used to travel between buildings between certain classes, though not any more, resulting in overcrowded class rooms. @Hawkwing @Dragoncat Sad to say that that's how things have since politics have been a thing, and the two party system, among many other things in the government are so outdated to the way the world is now days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, Hawkwing said: It was also a rather nasty reminder of why some of the pastors at my church carry a firearm on them while preaching, as well as why the various police officers that go to our church come to service armed. Wait WHAT. That's horrifying. Oh, right, my actual thoughts on the topic. My condolences to the family, and I really wish the shooter had been kept anonymous, so he can't be used as a rallying cry. I may not agree with every religion, but I think that people should be allowed to worship in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 49 minutes ago, eclipse said: Wait WHAT. That's horrifying. Something was telling me that I should have gone into more detail with that sentence. I should have listened to it. It's not as bad as it sounds. Far from it, actually. It's not like they're publicly carrying around handguns or the pastor is preaching with a pistol on his hip. They're legally concealed, and if it helps, our pastors house has been robbed before. However, as I said, a fair number of our congregation is in law enforcement, and while shootings are rare, it's still best to be prepared for anything. 1 hour ago, Dragoncat said: Oh man preach it. This is why I said the two party system needs to go away. That and when I went to vote last, I couldn't vote for governor or mayor because I was unaffiliated and my mom could only vote for Republicans because that's what she registered as. It annoys me. Why can't we just vote for whoever we want regardless of party? 1 hour ago, DMan64 said: @Hawkwing @Dragoncat Sad to say that that's how things have since politics have been a thing, and the two party system, among many other things in the government are so outdated to the way the world is now days. I wouldn't say that the two party system is bad in and of itself, but both sides have been extremely polarizing lately, with little middle ground between them. Heck, during the infamous 2016 election, I know of people who hated both sides, but voted anyway simply because they didn't want the other person to win. I have been thinking about how important the citizens are in a democracy, though, and how it's not always the politicians fault for where we are today. Democracy constantly needs to evolve and reform, and perhaps that's a reason why its considered "the worst form of government". Although quotes about how "incompetency" (usually in the sense that it prevents tyranny) is one of Democracies "strengths" are really biting in situations like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottservia Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Geez it just seems to be one shooting after another these days. I honestly don’t know what to say except giving my condolences to those effected. Though I do get what you’re going through as something similar happened to me during the vegas shooting about a year ago. I was there visiting family and we were at the belagio (about a mile off of where it happened) celebrating my grampa’s 93rd birthday. Thankfully we weren’t at all caught up in the incident as we had just entered the highway back to my grandparents’ house when it happened. Though it’s still scary to think about how close I was to it. In fact it happened at a hotel we usually stay at when visiting the city though that year we didn’t cause of the price. Again it still kind of scares me how different things would’ve been if we had stayed there or had we stayed at the restaurant just 10 minutes later. So yeah @DMan64 I get what you’re going through as it truly is a terrifying thought that it happened so close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hawkwing said: Something was telling me that I should have gone into more detail with that sentence. I should have listened to it. It's not as bad as it sounds. Far from it, actually. It's not like they're publicly carrying around handguns or the pastor is preaching with a pistol on his hip. They're legally concealed, and if it helps, our pastors house has been robbed before. However, as I said, a fair number of our congregation is in law enforcement, and while shootings are rare, it's still best to be prepared for anything. I wouldn't say that the two party system is bad in and of itself, but both sides have been extremely polarizing lately, with little middle ground between them. Heck, during the infamous 2016 election, I know of people who hated both sides, but voted anyway simply because they didn't want the other person to win. I have been thinking about how important the citizens are in a democracy, though, and how it's not always the politicians fault for where we are today. Democracy constantly needs to evolve and reform, and perhaps that's a reason why its considered "the worst form of government". Although quotes about how "incompetency" (usually in the sense that it prevents tyranny) is one of Democracies "strengths" are really biting in situations like these. The "worst form of government" line comes from Churchill where the full quote is "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." So, in other words, democracy is the best form of governments, it just happens that governments in general are kind of shit. If anyone is seriously condemning democracy, then I'd like to see what other suggestion they have for running the world. Because it's proven to be by far the safest and most prosperous (shout out to Blah, the Prussian, our resident monarchist. He's still around, right?). Edited October 31, 2018 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 It’s such a terrible tragedy. It’s important to distinguish it as an anti-Semitic crime because it was specifically an attack against Jewish people, not religiosity in general. It was an attack wrapped up in white supremacy. Four armed police responded very swiftly by all accounts (a report I saw originally said they were already on scene, but it appears that was wrong); not sure if armed security could’ve done any better, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 What happened to the shooter? All cursory info I can find just talks about Trump's visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Jotari said: What happened to the shooter? All cursory info I can find just talks about Trump's visit. He was shot, wounded and treated by Jewish hospital staff. He appeared in a wheelchair in court on Monday. Edited October 31, 2018 by Res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Res said: He was shot, wounded and treated by Jewish hospital staff. He appeared in a wheelchair in court on Monday. Oh wow. That went to court quickly. Thought these things useually took more time. Edit: Now I see it was just the preliminary stuff. I'm also curious to know what kind of gun he used. Probably something powerful if he managed to shoot four police officers too. Edited October 31, 2018 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) On 10/31/2018 at 4:18 AM, Jotari said: Oh wow. That went to court quickly. Thought these things useually took more time. Edit: Now I see it was just the preliminary stuff. I'm also curious to know what kind of gun he used. Probably something powerful if he managed to shoot four police officers too. AR-15. It has consistently been used in just about every mass shooting that's been covered in the media this year and most of the time when a gun owner/enthusiast talks about implementing common sense gun control, they will mention that civilians have no business wielding that gun. Edited November 3, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said: AR-15. It has consistently been used in just about every mass shooting that's been covered in the media this year and most of the time when a gun owner/enthusiast talks about implementing common sense gun control, they will mention that civilians have no business wielding that gun. I am completely unsurprised. And that's a little sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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