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Smash controversy regarding war bonnet

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https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-11-07/nintendo-apologizes-for-offensive-native-american-caricature-will-update-for-super-smash-bros-ultimate/.139168

Yes, Native Americans had issues, but it's headwear that exists. Unless it's disrespectful for non-Native Americans to wear it, it seems silly to me

EDIT: Native Americans have issues with non-Native Americans wearing it. The person that wears it is a video game character who in Smash is 2D and has the aged design from a old video game console.

Edited by silveraura25

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I was iffy about the snipping of the feather myself at first blush. But as the gamexplain video shows it's one canon reference being turned into another canon reference. And that level of integrity is important when dealing with Mr. Game& Watch, who is all references.

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There are less clickbaity ways to make a thread title, you know

Glad that they removed it, because that Chief Wahoo shit doesn't belong in Smash (or anywhere really)

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3 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

People are too sensitive nowadays. 

Yeah, how dare a group of people that have been taken advantage of for hundreds of years get angry when they're depicted as savages

Fire-Attack-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Switch.j

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47 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

EDIT: Native Americans have issues with non-Native Americans wearing it. The person that wears it is a video game character who in Smash is 2D and has the aged design from a old video game console.

well, some native americans. I saw quite a few that either didn't give a shit or thought it was humorous. apathy isn't in opposition to wanting it removed, though.

i believe they already changed the visuals in a rerelease of the game in 2002 - but that didn't change the theme of the game so i don't know what was even the point if that was what they were going for

Edited by Edgelord

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Man, we could use a re-release of those game & watch galleries. I only had one as a kid but I played it to death.

So uh...is there anything more about this discussion that warrants a thread? I can only see this being diluted into a back and forth between somebody saying they're okay with the aesthetic change and some other guy looking to "own the es jay dubs". And y'know there's a politics sub forum you could participate in that back and forth every day.

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43 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

People are too sensitive nowadays. 

Native Americans are one group that has absolutely EVERY right to be offended. They were borderline genocided and are still treated like trash in the country they discovered and inhabited for over ten thousand years.

It'd be one thing if this had a purpose, but... it doesn't. Mr. Game and Watch really doesn't need this. There's 0 harm in removing it, vs. potential harm in keeping it.

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It's Nintendo's choice. I thought it was a neat little nod to the old Game and Watch game, but since that's literally his entire character removing one reference subtracts nothing, and it is kinda distasteful. If anything, the removal of it is additive, since that's one less thing to render, allowing for a slightly (and I mean 0.001% kind of slightly) faster experience. As long as me and my friends can still have cook-offs, anything's fine.

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Like people said, the animation makes no difference. That said, it's dumb that they removed it because two people on ResetEra cried about it. People say it's racist because it depicts Native Americans attacking a fort.....but that's a historical fact. Native Americans did attack settlements. That's not racist at all. Someone's absolute gonna miscontrue this, aren't they?

If you flip the roles, the people crying about it will stop.

Honestly, i didn't even know the origin until ResetEra started crying about it. If people just left it alone, no one would notice. It's not blantly racist like some would claim. You want blatently racist, look at the original sprite for Jynx in Pokemon.

And if you say the animation should be removed because of stereotypes, then i guess we should patch out the Mario Bros too.

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8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Like people said, the animation makes no difference. That said, it's dumb that they removed it because two people on ResetEra cried about it. People say it's racist because it depicts Native Americans attacking a fort.....but that's a historical fact. Native Americans did attack settlements. That's not racist at all. Someone's absolute gonna miscontrue this, aren't they?

 

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

It's not blantly racist like some would claim. You want blatently racist, look at the original sprite for Jynx in Pokemon.

I don't even know where to start with all this. Your little bubble must be incredibly comfortable.

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1 hour ago, Johann said:

Yeah, how dare a group of people that have been taken advantage of for hundreds of years get angry when they're depicted as savages

 

You could say the same for pretty much every minority in existence and basically the entirety of the Age of Discovery. 

It’s just a very old game. Didn’t they remake the G&W games later on and removed the feather to make them look like bandits? They can go with that. 

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the italian stereotype in mario is pretty weak at best

However, Nintendo need to be aware of Aran Ryan the next time they make a Punch-Out! game. Being part Irish, it is disrespectful to myself that the Irish are depicted as psychotic, cheaters, angry and uncivilised. This is despicable. Take Aran Ryan out of the game.

hqdefault.jpg

(punch-out was always kind of like this, even joking about it)

Still, I can definitely see where the stickler is in this particular case and I wouldn't blame anyone for being uncomfortable with it, but also perhaps listen to what at least some Native Americans are talking about when they actually give their views on it or don't care instead of speaking for them collectively.

Edited by Edgelord

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1 hour ago, Lord-Zero said:

People are too sensitive nowadays. 

No shit. I'm rather tired about people crying about minor pre-release changes.

Man, this almost makes me look back to the days were people were going nuts about Wind Waker's artstyle. Yeah, we were morons back then too but at least we were mad about something significant.

Edited by BrightBow

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1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

No shit. I'm rather tired about people crying about minor pre-release changes.

Man, this almost makes me look back to the days were people were going nuts about Wind Waker's artstyle. Yeah, we were morons but at least it was about something significant.

Oh yes, the Cel-da times. People were really freaking out at the time. 

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I suppose my passive-aggressiveness could cause my post to be misinterpreted. Sorry about that.

It's a minor pre-release change. These things happen. Like, for the longest time during the development of Smash 4 Ike's Eruption was red, but at the last minute it was changed to blue. This is entirely normal.

Edited by BrightBow

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I would never have even noticed if people hadn't pointed it out.

I suppose it's for the best that it's patched out - it stops the major source of the controversy.

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28 minutes ago, Florete said:

 

I don't even know where to start with all this. Your little bubble must be incredibly comfortable.

Yeah, it feels nice not being offended by literally everything.

2 minutes ago, Lau said:

I suppose it's for the best that it's patched out - it stops the major source of the controversy

I have a feeling the controversy wouldn't have gotten that far in the long run but you're right. Like, i still think it's dumb that they are patching it out but in the long run, who cares? Would've been nice if they replaced it with something else though as opposed to just making it like Smash 4.

Though i get a feeling Japan's keeping it.

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1 hour ago, Johann said:

There are less clickbaity ways to make a thread title, you know

Glad that they removed it, because that Chief Wahoo shit doesn't belong in Smash (or anywhere really)

Sure I'll change it. I got a bit heated when I read the title of the article without reading much about the cultural importance as I thought this is one of those other PC things. A mistake on my part for getting heated.

I googled Chief Wahoo and I'm struggling to see how this is as near as offensive as that. I get that using red for Native Americans is inaccurately racist, but this is from a primitive era sprite where they're all the same color. I'm at a loss when it comes to skin color. I'm reading about permission to use war bonnets from tribal leaders, but I don't understand if it applies for Native Americans appearing in fiction, games, etc. Does this only apply for real life?

1 hour ago, Johann said:

Yeah, how dare a group of people that have been taken advantage of for hundreds of years get angry when they're depicted as savages

Fire-Attack-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Switch.j

They're attacking a wooden base by setting it on fire. How is that savage (seems smart)? Are they savage for attacking it from the outside or not having a hammer? I get that they were severely mistreated by Americans and I think their lands should be returned to them, but looking at videos of gameplay I can find they're merely "villains" of a mini-game. But it doesn't help that they're probably villains of several movies, because cowboy movies were a big thing in the 20th century. Is this a bad game for having Indians be killed? Yes in the sense than white is hero and Native American bad, but I'm not seeing how in this portrayal there is any justification for them being "devils" other than trying to burn down a fort. Maybe a reinforcement of "Native American is bad" mentality... Oooh. I get it. I finally get it. Apologies for being insensitive. Never really thought this deep about Native American portrayal in fiction and games.

@Florete I was in the wrong. Took me a long think to understand why. See the paragraph above

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Man, we could use a re-release of those game & watch galleries. I only had one as a kid but I played it to death.

So uh...is there anything more about this discussion that warrants a thread? I can only see this being diluted into a back and forth between somebody saying they're okay with the aesthetic change and some other guy looking to "own the es jay dubs". And y'know there's a politics sub forum you could participate in that back and forth every day.

I think a mod could move a topic. I'll try asking

@eclipse This seems... like it's political. Could you please move this into the politics thread? Apologies for sounding like an ass in the OP

The folk hero of my country got drunk and murdered someone's son. I wonder if that says something about people of my nationality. Nah, that's our northern neighbours taking busses to go across two countries to get alcohol

Though even after all this writing I only have one issue. They did attack forts. So why should they censor that? I get that this is one of those things where it gives off the impression of white man good and Indians bad, but it was a circle of hatred. Whites started it (doesn't help scalping was a thing especially with bounties being offered for them), but it doesn't mean that Indians, of those that chose to, didn't kill in retaliation out of hatred by attacking settlements. Most of the times whites were bad, sometimes good (though in fiction there seems to be tendency for white good). Indians were victims for a huge majority of the part, but some of them did to evil in retaliation. Perhaps the issue lies in there being an impression that it's all Indians that did this, but there is also impression that every white in America was to blame. Still, Native Americans are a beaten people and don't need to be continued to beat down in fiction. Their culture has been disgraced throughout these past hundreds of years. So I'd get it if they feel like they are disgraced even today. Uhhh. This one paragraph is such a grey for me

Edited by silveraura25

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Hey wait before we go somebody's gotta propose the idea that "What if Mr. Game&Watch is ACTUALLY a native american, didn't think of that did you?". And nobody could refute that what if since Mr. Game&Watch is not an actual character outside of Smash Bros.

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Would've been nice if they replaced it with something else though as opposed to just making it like Smash 4.

It's not replaced with the Smash 4 version. The character is just missing the feather in the final release. Which is how the injins in the minigame were depicted in its GBA re-release. It's one canonical image swapped out for another canonical image.

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