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Jotari

California mass Shooting

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So we're doing this "but feelings" thing? Banning guns doesn't decrease violence with guns. And guns aren't dangerous. Live grenades are, though.

It seems ridiculous to ban guns just because crazy people keep killing people. Outlawing rape is ridiculous because most people don't rape. There's no reason to control guns. In fact, government controlling guns is unconstitutional. It's our right, you know? Change that, and only good suffer. Rapist, thieves, murderers do it cause why not or just because. They don't care about rules.

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29 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Funny how it was decreasing way before 96. The gun ban can't take responsibility for homicide. Which means guns aren't the problem.

True, as the article points out. Would the same trend have continued if guns weren't banned? That's completely impossible to know without a time machine. What we do know though is that deaths involving the specific guns that were targeted by the stricter laws did see a sharp decline, which to me does not seem like coincidence.

18 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

So we're doing this "but feelings" thing? Banning guns doesn't decrease violence with guns. And guns aren't dangerous. Live grenades are, though.

It seems ridiculous to ban guns just because crazy people keep killing people. Outlawing rape is ridiculous because most people don't rape. There's no reason to control guns. In fact, government controlling guns is unconstitutional. It's our right, you know? Change that, and only good suffer. Rapist, thieves, murderers do it cause why not or just because. They don't care about rules.

You really think rape should be legalized?

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4 hours ago, CapnStix said:

law abiding citizenry

take a shot for every time you hear this from somebody pro-guns. there are much better arguments for guns than this...

guns are dangerous. insane people can be dangerous. combining both is even more dangerous. "it's not as simple as that", but they're both obviously problems. if you disagree, tune in to next week's episode of "around 10 people dead from shooting".

edit: holy shit, your last post

damn it i was trolled

Edited by Comet

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No, I don't condone rape. And yet, everyone misquotes the Bible. It's "thou shalt not murder".

Well, typically, laws don't stop crime. It just lets people know what is allowed and not allowed. It's illegal to murder someone, it's not illegal to say "the one thing you don't say to black people". Well, in America, anyway. Sure, it's seen as racist, even though it isn't on its own as context matters, and people will assault you for saying it. Real mature for assaulting someone over a word but you do you, I suppose.

Guns aren't dangerous, actually. It all depends on the user. An AR 15 is as dangerous as a 1911A1, as in they aren't. That is an objective fact.

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13 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Guns aren't dangerous, actually. It all depends on the user. An AR 15 is as dangerous as a 1911A1, as in they aren't. That is an objective fact.

I think this kind of thought is so wrong.

Guns are tools that made for the killing purpose.

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19 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

No, I don't condone rape. And yet, everyone misquotes the Bible. It's "thou shalt not murder".

Well, typically, laws don't stop crime. It just lets people know what is allowed and not allowed. It's illegal to murder someone, it's not illegal to say "the one thing you don't say to black people". Well, in America, anyway. Sure, it's seen as racist, even though it isn't on its own as context matters, and people will assault you for saying it. Real mature for assaulting someone over a word but you do you, I suppose.

Guns aren't dangerous, actually. It all depends on the user. An AR 15 is as dangerous as a 1911A1, as in they aren't. That is an objective fact.

I think it's an objective fact that a knife has less potential to do harm than an AR 15. Whatever way you slice it, the USA is the only country in the developed world that has this kind of problem. From that we can only lead to two conclusions. Either A)America's gun laws and gun culture have a direct correlation to gun deaths; or B)Americans are just inherently more violent and bloodthirsty than people of any other country. I personally don't subscribe to the idea that  a group of people are inherently worse than any other, so I can only lean on A as the major cause. It is possible for a country to have a lot of guns and still be safe. Iceland and Switzerland have a very large population of gun owners and they're two of the safest countries on the planet. The difference is that they have strict gun laws that restrict access to guns that are designed for no other purpose than to massacre large groups of humans and prevent people who would use them to kill from getting them.

Edited by Jotari

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6 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

I think this kind of thought is so wrong.

Guns are tools that made for the killing purpose.

So are arrows, bows, knives and the like. I mean, it's almost as dangerous as straws. Or a spade.

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think it's an objective fact that a knife has less potential to do harm than an AR 15. Whatever way you slice it, the USA is the only country in the developed world that has this kind of problem. From that we can only lead to two conclusions. Either A)America's gun laws and gun culture have a direct correlation to gun deaths; or B)Americans are just inherently more violent and bloodthirsty than people of any other country. I personally don't subscribe to the idea that  a group of people are inherently worse than any other, so I can only lean on A as the major cause. It is possible for a country to have a lot of guns and still be safe. Iceland and Switzerland have a very large population of gun owners and they're two of the safest countries on the planet. The difference is that they have strict gun laws that restrict access to guns that are designed for no other purpose than to massacre large groups of humans and prevent people who would use them to kill from getting them.

Yet thise Europe places seem to have less color people. Just a observation, not saying that's good or bad. Even though white people are a colored people.

So one crazy white guy kills 14 people, we gotta control the guns? Why must everyone suffer for the stupid decisions of a few bad eggs? This "argument" is one of emotion, and emotion doesn't apply in court.

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1 minute ago, CapnStix said:

So are arrows, bows, knives and the like. I mean, it's almost as dangerous as straws. Or a spade.

Yet thise Europe places seem to have less color people. Just a observation, not saying that's good or bad. Even though white people are a colored people.

So one crazy white guy kills 14 people, we gotta control the guns? Why must everyone suffer for the stupid decisions of a few bad eggs? This "argument" is one of emotion, and emotion doesn't apply in court.

It's not one of emotion. It's an argument of statistics. America has a problem with gun violence. That is statistically undeniable. Something has to be done about it. Better mental health care? Yes, absolutely yes. Every country could do with better mental health care. But it's not like the mental health facilities in Europe/Australia/Japan/Korea/Canada etc are monumentally better than America and that's why America has a problem and the rest of the (developed) world doesn't. All of these countries have issues with mental health, it's only in America where these issues result in massacres. Wanting to keep guns laws unrestricted is an argument of emotion, as the only possible justification for wanting to keep gun laws lax is "I like guns" (well, either that or "I want to commit crimes easier"). 

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Well, screw that. It's unconstitutional to control guns. And a lot of gun crimes happen in inner cities. And those have more people of color than where I live. It's rare, less than 1 a year rare, to hear about a gun crime up here. There seems, not saying there is, to be a connection. Again, just an observation.

Tell me something, how do you feel about Trump? Kanye West? Milo Yiannopolus? I have a sneaking suspension that you, at least you two, lean left.

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35 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

So are arrows, bows, knives and the like. I mean, it's almost as dangerous as straws. Or a spade.

If I am in my class, with my classmates, and some crazy mass murderer shows up.

With our chairs and tables, there is higher chance for us to survive against any of those weapon than if he uses a gun.

Edited by hanhnn

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A tad over emotional, I gather. What are the chances? Really? Don't you think you're being a tad paranoid. I'm no expert, but thinking "it might happen to me" is pretty paranoid. Has it happened to you, yet? If not, you shouldn't worry about it. Worry leads to stress, and stress leads to aging.

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20 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Well, screw that. It's unconstitutional to control guns. And a lot of gun crimes happen in inner cities. And those have more people of color than where I live. It's rare, less than 1 a year rare, to hear about a gun crime up here. There seems, not saying there is, to be a connection. Again, just an observation.

Tell me something, how do you feel about Trump? Kanye West? Milo Yiannopolus? I have a sneaking suspension that you, at least you two, lean left.

Attack the logic, not the person. Who is saying something is irrelevant compared to what they're saying. If I happened to be a republican or a democrat or a space alien, it wouldn't actually change the meaning of any of my words. Since you asked though, I don't think Trump's done a terrible job, probably better than Hilary would have, though I do wish he took climate change more seriously. I like Kanye's cover of Daft Punk's Stronger and I don't even know who Milo Yiannoppolus is.

And as far as the American constitution goes, the second Amendments entire purpose is to give the civilian population the ability to overthrow the government, which they absolutely cannot do no matter how many AR15s they have. For the second amendment to work as it was intended, every citizen would need to have easy access to attack copters, nerve gas, tanks etc. How much the USA spends on its defense budget is the only think unconstitutional about the second amendment.

Edited by Jotari

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2 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

So guns are a problem? Why? Cause a scary person killed people. Condemn the idiot, not the tool.

That's not what I said. What I said was the words were the same no matter who's saying them. If you want to legitimately win and argument, attack the logic, not the person. And since words are the tool in that instance, a more accurate representation would be "condemn the tool, not the idiot" (of course we should also condemn the actual criminals, the comparison breaks down slightly because an argument is obviously something different to armed assault).

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8 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

A tad over emotional, I gather. What are the chances? Really? Don't you think you're being a tad paranoid. I'm no expert, but thinking "it might happen to me" is pretty paranoid. Has it happened to you, yet? If not, you shouldn't worry about it. Worry leads to stress, and stress leads to aging.

Yeah, you're absolutely right, when it happens to you, you're already dead by then so why should worry anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, CapnStix said:

So we're doing this "but feelings" thing? Banning guns doesn't decrease violence with guns. And guns aren't dangerous. Live grenades are, though.

Whether or not it does, you can't argue that feelings are totally irrelevant. Emotions and personal experience inform arguments, but arguments are supported by facts.

Either way, there's plenty of stats both ways which show gun control does or does not lead to mass shootings. I don't believe in a blanket ban just because it's not practical, but let's not pretend that sitting on the issue will suddenly make things better either.

1 hour ago, CapnStix said:

It seems ridiculous to ban guns just because crazy people keep killing people. Outlawing rape is ridiculous because most people don't rape. There's no reason to control guns. In fact, government controlling guns is unconstitutional. It's our right, you know? Change that, and only good suffer. Rapist, thieves, murderers do it cause why not or just because. They don't care about rules.

1) So what do you propose doing if it's just *the crazy* killing the crazy? The Vegas shooter wasn't crazy. You're bringing up an extremely broad concept here; what are you defining as crazy here? Depressed? Anyone can snap and kill, regardless of mental health issues.

2) Outlawing rape is ridiculous because most people don't rape? You might wanna check your phrasing. So we should allow crimes and just punish according to the constitution? Should we not have any laws because bad people will do bad things? Because that's really not how society works.

3) Government banning firearms is unconstitutional, but government regulation firearms isn't. Furthermore, laws and the constitution can always be amended so constitutionality is a moot point if we're discussing gun control. Remember when alcohol was illegal under the constitution?

56 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

So are arrows, bows, knives and the like. I mean, it's almost as dangerous as straws. Or a spade.

Knives have much more utility than the rest. Bows and arrows aren't as easy to handle as a gun nor are they as dangerous. Nobody uses bows and arrows anymore unless they're hunting, in which case I'm not even pro-gun banning simply because a lot of Americans need to hunt.

56 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Yet thise Europe places seem to have less color people. Just a observation, not saying that's good or bad. Even though white people are a colored people.

So one crazy white guy kills 14 people, we gotta control the guns? Why must everyone suffer for the stupid decisions of a few bad eggs? This "argument" is one of emotion, and emotion doesn't apply in court.

What are you saying here? Like, I legitimately don't know what point you're trying to make.

35 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Well, screw that. It's unconstitutional to control guns. And a lot of gun crimes happen in inner cities. And those have more people of color than where I live. It's rare, less than 1 a year rare, to hear about a gun crime up here. There seems, not saying there is, to be a connection. Again, just an observation.

That's because crime is linked to poverty much more than race. If you're desperate for food and money, you do desperate things outside the law. The inner cities have a staggeringly high rate of poverty in comparison to much of the US.

35 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Tell me something, how do you feel about Trump? Kanye West? Milo Yiannopolus? I have a sneaking suspension that you, at least you two, lean left.

Like people on the left such as Bill Maher, they're simply shit stirrers whose job it is to divide the nation. They don't give a fuck about the people they're talking to or this country. Only an obsession with their ideology. More specifically, Trump and Kanye are attention whores and nothing more, Milo is a divisive person, and if you want me to criticize everyone to be fair, Bill Maher invites people into his show to condescend. CNN just screams bloody murder and has a heart attack over almost nothing, and just sees a shiny, profitable object and runs with the story.

They're all divisive parties. Don't bring party or ideological bullshit into this. We're speaking about guns, not politics.

For the record, I don't have political leanings. All of my politics are according to one thing and one thing only, and that's the poem on the statue of liberty, if you want to call out my political leanings.

17 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

A tad over emotional, I gather. What are the chances? Really? Don't you think you're being a tad paranoid. I'm no expert, but thinking "it might happen to me" is pretty paranoid. Has it happened to you, yet? If not, you shouldn't worry about it. Worry leads to stress, and stress leads to aging.

It's called empathy. People are allowed to worry about whatever they want.

13 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

So guns are a problem? Why? Cause a scary person killed people. Condemn the idiot, not the tool.

Por que no los dos?

Edited by Lord Raven

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Cause you pissed someone off? That's not a good reason to shoot someone.

Of course I'm right, I called Kavanaugh being confirmed weeks in advance, I called Hilary not being elected and I had a vision of 9/11 happening the night before. No one would believe 9/11 would happen, but it did. I tend to be right about many things. Not everything, I thought Jill Stein was gonna be the president by now.

Kinda pitiful, always worrying about being shot. Shame. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm apparently the happiest person my friends know.

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11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's not what I said. What I said was the words were the same no matter who's saying them. If you want to legitimately win and argument, attack the logic, not the person. And since words are the tool in that instance, a more accurate representation would be "condemn the tool, not the idiot" (of course we should also condemn the actual criminals, the comparison breaks down slightly because an argument is obviously something different to armed assault).

I'm well aware, but there are dangerous people. Acting like the tool they use is bad, is...to be honest, really stupid. Why don't we ban baseball bats while we're at it?

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1 minute ago, Lord Raven said:

Yeah dude, my life sucks.

And? Everyone's life sucks in different ways. Mine sucks because I'm emotional idiots, as in they jump to conclusion.

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4 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

I'm well aware, but there are dangerous people. Acting like the tool they use is bad, is...to be honest, really stupid. Why don't we ban baseball bats while we're at it?

There does not exist a single situation where I bring a baseball bat into a store and I do not get suspicious looks or the cops called on me or something.

You can conceal a hand gun much easier than a baseball bat. You can also shoot someone who's about to call with a gun. Dude with a baseball bat has to fuckin walk to bash someone's head in when they have a phone in their hands.

Dude with the Knife won't be as easy to identify, but MAN he has to do work. One stabbing and he's pretty much done. You can run away much easier than from gunfire.

There are orders of magnitude difference between guns and knives/bats.

Edited by Lord Raven

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2 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Mine sucks because I'm emotional idiots, as in they jump to conclusion.

Uh, so according to your own post, you're an emotional idiot, and someone else jumps to conclusions. Checks out.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

There does not exist a single situation where I bring a baseball bat into a store and I do not get suspicious looks or the cops called on me or something.

You can conceal a hand gun much easier than a baseball bat. You can also shoot someone who's about to call with a gun. Dude with a baseball bat has to fuckin walk to bash someone's head in when they have a phone in their hands.

Dude with the Knife won't be as easy to identify, but MAN he has to do work. One stabbing and he's pretty much done. You can run away much easier than from gunfire.

There are orders of magnitude difference between guns and knives/bats.

Not really. And I've seen that alcohol kills more than guns. So gg, try again next time, please.

But you have to be a freaking crazy person to end another human life. You can be sane one moment then crazy the next.

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4 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Uh, so according to your own post, you're an emotional idiot, and someone else jumps to conclusions. Checks out.

I meant surrounded by. This has been happening as of late, I tried writing begin yet ended with bed. Mayhaps I am tired, mayhaps it's something else.

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