Aether Raids General Thread

[XRay]

41 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I haven’t invested into a defense team yet, and now I probably won’t bother. It’s way too expensive and people in high tier AR will just wipe me if my defense is less than perfect.

I just put a bunch of nukes on my defense team, using BH!Lyn, Reinhardt, BB!Cordelia, and NS!F!Corrin, and Olivia and VS!Azura as my Dancers/Singers. It is not great, but it gets some success occasionally.

[Tree]

8 minutes ago, Azuni said:

You'd be surprised how well Duma works

Duma with Distant Counter/Vantage/Quick Riposte seal can be surprisingly effective if someone notices it too late. If your units are injured, you're less likely to survive Vantage. Also you won't double Duma making you vulnerable to the second attack from Quick Riposte. You end up spending turns trying to heal before the turn limit is reached. I've gotten burned by that one before. 😛

Edited June 7, 2019 by Tree

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, Azuni said:

Even some of the other top rankers I hang out with use double Yune/Duma setups, so it's not limited to casual players (although most of them didn't invest more than a few merges in either).

Yeah. Building a strong defense team with Mythics is the best option, but it’s also the most expensive. I do not want to invest heavily into AR defense at the expense of my offense teams. At the moment I just don’t have the resources for it.

Quote

You'd be surprised how well Duma works, he gels perfectly with small-scale IP/pseudo-IP units that benefit from boosting attack (Ophelia, Lilina, etc). Outside of Witchy Wand/Pulse Smoke/Bride Fjorm support or specific strats like Galeforce, this kind of setup usually generates some kills. The aforementioned top rankers I know typically pick up 1-2 kills or better, which is a -20 def loss at worst. A full success is actually unfavorable since then you don't get a free rematch against a weaker opponent.

How do you use Duma on an IP team? Upheaval usually gets replaced because of how low-impact it is. Double Duma can also backfire depending on where the lightning trap is placed too.

I admit I am exaggerating Duma’s ineffectiveness. I don’t think he is a good unit. He has a lot of problems between not being able to negate his weaknesses, running a build that is easily cheesed with a specific strat, or both.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's only the case if you're too lazy, poor, or unlucky to actually build Duma (or his teammates) to do something, which is the case with pretty much every unit in the game aside from a few that actually come pre-built with a near-optimal build (Surtr, Alm, Azura, etc.).

Anima season always runs alongside Astra. A defense team with Duma has to factor in Naga even if the rest of the team isn’t weak to dragon-slaying.

The three issues Duma brings to a defense team are

-Low movement

-Weaknesses to common effective weapons

-Inability to counter at range

Being colorless is a good start since any encounter with Duma comes down to a simple stat check. However, Duma has glaring weaknesses no matter what build he runs. If he uses his Prf, he either can’t counter at range or is weak to armorslaying. If he uses Lightningbreath and Svalinn, he can’t take advantage of his Prf for additional bulk. If he is near the front he can be sniped easily. If he is in the back you have ample time to deal with him as you gather up Aether pots.

If Duma is on a defense team that happens to be good, it’s not likely because he adds anything to it. From what I’ve seen in high-level AR, it’s because those teams make Duma’s weaknesses less apparent.

What build would you use with Duma on a defense team? That’s not rhetorical, I’d like to know.

Edited June 7, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

-Low movement

Fixed by investment in Duma (Armor March, Armored Boots) or in his teammates (Guidance, Ground Orders).

 

14 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

-Weaknesses to common effective weapons

Which can be mitigated by teammates that provide pressure against units with those builds.

 

15 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

-Inability to counter at range

Fixed by investment in Duma (Lightning Breath+, Distant Counter).

 

16 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

What build would you use with Duma on a defense team? That’s not rhetorical, I’d like to know.

One of

• Fell Breath, Moonbow / Glimmer, Distant Counter, Special Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, Quick Riposte 3
• Fell Breath, Bonfire, Death Blow 4 / Distant Counter, Bold Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, [some Sacred Seal]
• Lightning Breath+, Moonbow / Glimmer, Distant Def 4, Bold Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, Close Def 3 / Quick Riposte 3

or a similar variant. Preferably with a Dark Tiki if running Armor March or someone with Guidance if running Upheaval.

[Azuni]

23 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

How do you use Duma on an IP team? Upheaval usually gets replaced because of how low-impact it is. Double Duma can also backfire depending on where the lightning trap is placed too.

What build would you use with Duma on a defense team? That’s not rhetorical, I’d like to know.

An example is with the Dumas in the front, a Mage behind one of them, and a Rally Up Mage off to the side who can guidance in and nuke thanks to the 2 refreshers back there. Ophelia works best of course since she charges herself, and has high enough hp to IP the other mage on the team.

Sure you could snipe a Duma (a good one of these defenses has the Dumas stacked with some drives to make this more difficult) and maybe things would fall apart.
The more likely alternative is other things moving forward afterwards and then someone would fall to the rally up-dance due to extended range (with L!Azura as at least one of the refreshers).
Keep in mind most high rankers don't or can't snipe things, as the main mode of winning is baiting with a mega tank backed by 2-3 Eirs/Nagas.

I've seen a few variations of:

Fell Breath/Luna/Svalinn/Bold or Wary/March or Upheaval/Filler seal

[Prototype Angel]

Hi I’m looking for some help and suggestions for an Astra team for Aether Raids.

i have an unmerged Naga (very lucky free summon on the legendary banner) and have been trying a beast team of Nailah, Tibarn, Reyson +bonus unit (Unmerged L Roy this week) but they lack range offense and the versatility of my light team. Anyone got any suggestions on how they’ve built there Astra team and whether it’s been successful so far?

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Azuni said:

Keep in mind most high rankers don't or can't snipe things, as the main mode of winning is baiting with a mega tank backed by 2-3 Eirs/Nagas.

Or Galeforce or Vantage or just killing all threatening enemies in a single turn and leaving only the dancers or units that don't pose a threat when alone (like Veronica).

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

One of

• Fell Breath, Moonbow / Glimmer, Distant Counter, Special Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, Quick Riposte 3
• Fell Breath, Bonfire, Death Blow 4 / Distant Counter, Bold Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, [some Sacred Seal]
• Lightning Breath+, Moonbow / Glimmer, Distant Def 4, Bold Fighter 3, Upheaval / Armor March 3, Close Def 3 / Quick Riposte 3

or a similar variant. Preferably with a Dark Tiki if running Armor March or someone with Guidance if running Upheaval.

My previous post also explained that you can compensate for two of Duma's three weaknesses, but not all of them at the same time.

To be fair, in an AR defense team, Duma is most likely getting hit with effective damage because Naga is the only Astra Mythic currently. Svalinn with Lightning Breath would have less value than Fell Breath / DC / QR. 

That first build seems pretty good on AR offense. Special Fighter's guard effect means Duma won't fear special damage unless it is precharged. He also gets cooldown acceleration on both phases. If I had to use him on offense I'd swap out Moonbow with Noontime.

Staff Eirika seems like a good support option for Duma. You can proc Armor March and give Duma free stats. Not sure what I would use between her default Restore, Recover, or Physic though.

[Ice Dragon]

45 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

To be fair, in an AR defense team, Duma is most likely getting hit with effective damage because Naga is the only Astra Mythic currently. Svalinn with Lightning Breath would have less value than Fell Breath / DC / QR. 

Most units don't do well against nukes on the nukes' player phase, and all Naga does is temporarily allow more units to be nukes against specific enemies. The defense against nukes is not to have the stats to tank them, but to position your units and structures such that it's hard for nukes to either get in and out or get in and sweep.

[Hilda]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Most units don't do well against nukes on the nukes' player phase, and all Naga does is temporarily allow more units to be nukes against specific enemies. The defense against nukes is not to have the stats to tank them, but to position your units and structures such that it's hard for nukes to either get in and out or get in and sweep.

Which was made alot easier thanks to the nerfing of the maps

[Shoblongoo]

ayyyyyyyyyy finally made the jump from Tier 19 to Tier 20 offense

Did I play better this season? 

lol no

Did I luck out and face really bad teams?

ehhhhhh--same as I've been facing

Did I spend the past two months skipping banners + stockpiling hundreds of orbs, blow my entire load on Naga's banner for a spiffy new mystic, and go into battle with a fully blessed astral squad for +40 bonus lift per offensive clear?



____________

Oh Naga--why u so good???

Edited June 7, 2019 by Shoblongoo

[Ice Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Which was made alot easier thanks to the nerfing of the maps

Getting in and sweeping is give or take just as hard. Getting in and getting out shouldn't be too much easier unless no one decides to change their structure and unit placements.

[colossus86]

I'm so happy I fully embraced playing with no bonus units this week. Only lost one unit so far and no random units that add little of value eating up space on my teams

[Shoblongoo]

1 hour ago, colossus86 said:

I'm so happy I fully embraced playing with no bonus units this week. Only lost one unit so far and no random units that add little of value eating up space on my teams

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Fallen Delthea. Girl puts in a ton of work.

[MrSmokestack]

Spoiler

Since she’s a bonus unit, it came out to something like 98 physical bulk.

The result?

Don’t be that guy who throws the latest “powercreep” onto a map and calls it a defense team. Actually, please do. More free wins for me.

Edited June 8, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[Tybrosion]

32 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Since she’s a bonus unit, it came out to something like 98 physical bulk.

The result?

Don’t be that guy who throws the latest “powercreep” onto a map and calls it a defense team. Actually, please do. More free wins for me.

It’s not even just that. You’re also begging for disaster by sticking dragons, bonus unit or not, on your defense team during Astra season like that guy.

[Vicious Sal]

33 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

  Hide contents

Since she’s a bonus unit, it came out to something like 98 physical bulk.

The result?

Don’t be that guy who throws the latest “powercreep” onto a map and calls it a defense team. Actually, please do. More free wins for me.

Dragons on a defense team in Astra season, ah the merryment!

Except Duma, even though he’s easily dealt with at least he decreases lift loss. 

Naga herself can also work if you have a Line of cavs to force a turn one engage. Since naga then gives the cavs the ability to deal with offense naga’s.

[MrSmokestack]

3 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

Naga herself can also work if you have a Line of cavs to force a turn one engage. Since naga then gives the cavs the ability to deal with offense naga’s.

Fortunately, I have not run into the “cav line” defense team yet. But I’ve seen it in action and it’s disgusting.

6 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

It’s not even just that. You’re also begging for disaster by sticking dragons, bonus unit or not, on your defense team during Astra season like that guy.

More than half the defense teams I’ve run into this season have had at least one dragon, and all-dragon teams have popped up more than once. I have no clue why.

In general, armors and dragons are really easy to deal with in AR Defense. On offense they are usable with the right support, but it’s still a pain between the lack of movement or the hard counters high tier teams use.

My first season of AR ever is going very smoothly all told.

Edited June 8, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[colossus86]

Well we have bonus doubler in the perminant pool now, so we'll probably see a few more of those Null-C BD tanks. Infantry breath requires adjacentcy so I'd say its... High risk high reward at best. Yarne will be an interesting option for galeforce strats on offense and you could probably find a way to make his weapon annoying on defense too. Don't think anything else matters as far as AR is concerned

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, colossus86 said:

Well we have bonus doubler in the perminant pool now, so we'll probably see a few more of those Null-C BD tanks. Infantry breath requires adjacentcy so I'd say its... High risk high reward at best. Yarne will be an interesting option for galeforce strats on offense and you could probably find a way to make his weapon annoying on defense too. Don't think anything else matters as far as AR is concerned

The wording on Infantry breath is odd. From the wording its a visible buff, which means you can give the buff out and then position the supertank which keeps your buffer safe. Not sure if its a misstranslation.

When is Infantry counter? Grants Distant/Close counter to adjacent Infantry units lol.

[colossus86]

22 minutes ago, Hilda said:

The wording on Infantry breath is odd. From the wording its a visible buff, which means you can give the buff out and then position the supertank which keeps your buffer safe. Not sure if its a misstranslation.

When is Infantry counter? Grants Distant/Close counter to adjacent Infantry units lol.

I don't think it's a field buff because it doesn't specify that the effects last for one turn or through their next action

[Landmaster]

3 hours ago, Hilda said:

The wording on Infantry breath is odd. From the wording its a visible buff, which means you can give the buff out and then position the supertank which keeps your buffer safe. Not sure if its a misstranslation.

When is Infantry counter? Grants Distant/Close counter to adjacent Infantry units lol.

It says the buff is "During Combat"  and Breath Skills function giving the buff during combat so it's not a Visible Buff~

[Ice Dragon]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:19 PM, MrSmokestack said:

More than half the defense teams I’ve run into this season have had at least one dragon, and all-dragon teams have popped up more than once. I have no clue why.

Because not everyone has or uses Naga. Just checking my own defense replays, only 3 of the 11 matches played against my team had a Naga in it.

And people still use Duma because he's a guaranteed reduction in Lift loss. A single Duma with 5 blessed units, for example, is equivalent to an additive +31% to your defense team's win rate (i.e. if whatever would replace Duma can't boost your win rate by 31% relative to the team with Duma in it, it's better to leave Duma there).

Edited June 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[MrSmokestack]

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because not everyone has or uses Naga. Just checking my own defense replays, only 3 of the 11 matches played against my team had a Naga in it.

Wouldn't you use at least one copy of a Mythic matching the season to score well? I can understand not having pulled a single copy, but I doubt someone can ladder well by refusing to use her though.

Naga's a new unit, so people not having time to adjust with defense to take her into account is probably why. I'll still giggle when I see a dragon in the higher tiers because I love free wins.

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And people still use Duma because he's a guaranteed reduction in Lift loss.

Yeah. I have Duma on my defense team because it sucks.

[colossus86]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because not everyone has or uses Naga. Just checking my own defense replays, only 3 of the 11 matches played against my team had a Naga in it.

And people still use Duma because he's a guaranteed reduction in Lift loss. A single Duma with 5 blessed units, for example, is equivalent to an additive +31% to your defense team's win rate (i.e. if whatever would replace Duma can't boost your win rate by 31% relative to the team with Duma in it, it's better to leave Duma there).

Yeah these things take time. I'm running over alot of maps with my Bridal Fjorm this week, but so few people actually have her that it wouldn't make sense for people to adjust their maps just for her when that could inadvertently make you worse against more common matchups. I think dragons (sans Duma) will be phased out on Anima over a few Naga reruns.