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Aether Raids General Thread


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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Still in need of help to win more. Isn't there anything I can do right now? Use fodder that I actually have available at the moment? Change a seal or two? Or change up my offensive team(s) a bit? I posted screenshots of my units. There HAS to be SOMETHING.

Otherwise, I'm pretty certain I'm not maintaining my tier this time.

It is only the first day, so I would not worry too much.

It is cliche, but there is nothing quite like hands on battlefield experience, so I recommend taking whatever teams you have and go to Friend Mock Battle and practice. Pick any Friend and keep practicing against their defense map until you can get any win. Just beat 1 Friend map a day after you expend your daily Aether. It may feel like cheating if you keep doing it over and over since you will know the AI and trap placements on your subsequent attempts, but that is totally okay. You will learn the feel of the AI, how players place their traps, spot weaknesses in enemy formation, etc. It is also totally okay to go to your Barracks and adjust your offense team and then come right back to beat the Friend map; you need to know which units you are actually comfortable and good at using. So if you find that Silas is more useful to you and Frederick is not, you know to keep Silas and not Frederick, and if you find that you keep replacing Frederick with Ike or whatever, then you should probably kick Frederick out and put Ike in.

If you cannot solve a Friend map after 15 to 20 minutes, it is fine to call it quits and move on; the point is not to beat every map, the point is to learn to beat the easier maps so you can maintain your tier. Beating harder maps and getting better wins can come later. Even if you cannot commit 15 or 20 minutes every day, just practicing an extra 5 to 10 minutes every day will still help.

If you have empty team slots available and spare time, I recommend grabbing any 3 nukes and 2 Dancers/Singers together and practice using them too. You will eventually find some maps are easier to deal with one play style over another.

17 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am always surprised with teams without Hardy Bearing.

My CC Vantage unit really likes it...

I dropped to like Tier 20 due to a defense loss, so maybe I got paired with weaker defense teams.

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1 minute ago, XRay said:

It is only the first day, so I would not worry too much.

It is cliche, but there is nothing quite like hands on battlefield experience, so I recommend taking whatever teams you have and go to Friend Mock Battle and practice. Pick any Friend and keep practicing against their defense map until you can get any win. Just beat 1 Friend map a day after you expend your daily Aether. It may feel like cheating if you keep doing it over and over since you will know the AI and trap placements on your subsequent attempts, but that is totally okay. You will learn the feel of the AI, how players place their traps, spot weaknesses in enemy formation, etc. It is also totally okay to go to your Barracks and adjust your offense team and then come right back to beat the Friend map; you need to know which units you are actually comfortable and good at using. So if you find that Silas is more useful to you and Frederick is not, you know to keep Silas and not Frederick, and if you find that you keep replacing Frederick with Ike or whatever, then you should probably kick Frederick out and put Ike in.

If you cannot solve a Friend map after 15 to 20 minutes, it is fine to call it quits and move on; the point is not to beat every map, the point is to learn to beat the easier maps so you can maintain your tier. Beating harder maps and getting better wins can come later. Even if you cannot commit 15 or 20 minutes every day, just practicing an extra 5 to 10 minutes every day will still help.

If you have empty team slots available and spare time, I recommend grabbing any 3 nukes and 2 Dancers/Singers together and practice using them too. You will eventually find some maps are easier to deal with one play style over another.

Alright, I can try that, but I feel like this would only help so much, because obviously these won't be the teams I face when I do use my Aether. But I'll take any progress at this point.

There are certain units I have a hard time with no matter what though. Ophelia for example. I can't ever counter her because she's basically impossible to tank, and so you want to take her out on player phase, but that's about equally impossible because she's probably going to be danced or buffed or whatever unit you would use to take her out will be put in danger of dying to someone else. Fallen Corrin is another bitch to defeat. She's just way too god damn tanky and hits hard right back.

How the heck do people deal with these absurd units?

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Still in need of help to win more. Isn't there anything I can do right now? Use fodder that I actually have available at the moment? Change a seal or two? Or change up my offensive team(s) a bit? I posted screenshots of my units. There HAS to be SOMETHING.

Otherwise, I'm pretty certain I'm not maintaining my tier this time.

Lack of DC fodder really limits some of the best options. DC in particular since omega tank and Vantage are some of the easier ones to run(for me anyways). It is unfortunate you merged your Male Byleths. I see you have Swordhardt. A DC/Ruptured Sky inheritance could have made him a good option to abuse for Vantage play as long as he isn't -ATK. And he makes a good support for himself since his normal form has Goad Cav and can crash through many a defense wall that might slow swordhardt down. But that isn't an option due to lack of DC. Unfortunately I am an EP player so I fear most of my tactics revolve around all counter prospects.

And looking at your barracks it almost looks like Fjorm is one of your better options for my playstyle. But she makes a rather difficult to use tank at times. Still it is water season right now so she can benefit from Naga. So Fjorm, Naga, Kaden, Seth, [Wildcard] would probably be my pick from your barracks.

Seth with his refine can cover green physical units which she can struggle with as well as provide the team with 3 out of 4 tactics. Kaden(I run budget TA on mine) can cover bulky blues that try to cause trouble and runs double drive defense support on top of his weapon support(though I use this in Light so in Astra you might want drive res, or just a mix of drives). So Seth and Kaden play pinch hitter roles and Fjorm just tries to live. I throw the Tactics Defense Seal on Eir(you would put it on Naga) that way Seth can get his defense bolstered along with the rest of the team. As for your wildcard, since bulky greens can be your biggest threat I would probably try to use your TIbarn or maybe Sothis. They and Seth can double team the likes of Sutr. A bonus unit or L!Azura could also be quite helpful. L!Azura can help with Sutr since my Seth usually takes two actions to kill a Wary Sutr.

If you go with L!Azura I would probably water bless Seth.  Elsewise an Astra blessing for scoring should be obvious. Kaden is already water blessed so this route may give your team a fair bit of stat boosts while giving at least a bit of lift boost due to two water legendaries getting the mythic boost. Plus this way ensures you have some ranged damage which can be helpful in whittling away some HP from non-DC threats and Azura can of course dance whomever is best off eliminating a threat making it easier to go on the offense after the tanking start. The way this team plays is obvious. Buff the crap out of Fjorm and Kaden, keep Kaden with one open space between them, and if possible keep Seth and Naga(or whoever has defense tactics) offset to the sides with that space between them all empty. Actually since this is talking about Naga if possible you may want Naga to sit in that space. But you do often want an empty space so unsure how often you would pull that off. If unable to keep everyone buffed, keep Kaden at least buffed since he can easily spread it around as needed.

This team obviously stinks for climbing, but if your only go is to maintain it can work. But you'll really feel defense losses since you lack a full set of Mythic blessings and the lack of using a bonus unit(unless you use your wildcard slot for that). You really have to watch out for panic though. And probably green mages too. I also am unsure of how well she will work in Astra season. I use this basic set up for Light season with a second Eir as my wildcard, so all that extra Res and HP from the second Eir may actually be critical for Fjorm to work when not a bonus unit. In addition this team just simply loses to some setups. So it can be frustrating. Plus it functions far worse off season since you can't keep Fjorm in season all the time.




But as XRay says it is still early. Sometimes the first couple days can just really suck. So I don't worry too much about failing to maintain until closer to the weekend.

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18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Alright, I can try that, but I feel like this would only help so much, because obviously these won't be the teams I face when I do use my Aether. But I'll take any progress at this point.

This is not going to be a quick fix thing. This is going to take some time. While the maps might be different, you will eventually notice a pattern in maps and figure out how to deal with them.

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

There are certain units I have a hard time with no matter what though. Ophelia for example. I can't ever counter her because she's basically impossible to tank, and so you want to take her out on player phase, but that's about equally impossible because she's probably going to be danced or buffed or whatever unit you would use to take her out will be put in danger of dying to someone else. Fallen Corrin is another bitch to defeat. She's just way too god damn tanky and hits hard right back.

Against those teams, if I really cannot find a weak point to exploit, then I just Leroy Jenkins charge the AI and hope for the best. If I cannot beat them, might as well join them and copy the AI's favorite rush tactic. The only down side is that you cannot really use this tactic with an Enemy Phase team with the same level of effectiveness though.

Often times I just send my Galeforcer to break through the enemy front line to kill a Dancer/Singer in the back. This generally means the loss of a Galeforce unit, but at least I have now reached team size parity with four units on each side.

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40 minutes ago, Usana said:

Lack of DC fodder really limits some of the best options. DC in particular since omega tank and Vantage are some of the easier ones to run(for me anyways). It is unfortunate you merged your Male Byleths. I see you have Swordhardt. A DC/Ruptured Sky inheritance could have made him a good option to abuse for Vantage play as long as he isn't -ATK. And he makes a good support for himself since his normal form has Goad Cav and can crash through many a defense wall that might slow swordhardt down. But that isn't an option due to lack of DC. Unfortunately I am an EP player so I fear most of my tactics revolve around all counter prospects.

And looking at your barracks it almost looks like Fjorm is one of your better options for my playstyle. But she makes a rather difficult to use tank at times. Still it is water season right now so she can benefit from Naga. So Fjorm, Naga, Kaden, Seth, [Wildcard] would probably be my pick from your barracks.

Seth with his refine can cover green physical units which she can struggle with as well as provide the team with 3 out of 4 tactics. Kaden(I run budget TA on mine) can cover bulky blues that try to cause trouble and runs double drive defense support on top of his weapon support(though I use this in Light so in Astra you might want drive res, or just a mix of drives). So Seth and Kaden play pinch hitter roles and Fjorm just tries to live. I throw the Tactics Defense Seal on Eir(you would put it on Naga) that way Seth can get his defense bolstered along with the rest of the team. As for your wildcard, since bulky greens can be your biggest threat I would probably try to use your TIbarn or maybe Sothis. They and Seth can double team the likes of Sutr. A bonus unit or L!Azura could also be quite helpful. L!Azura can help with Sutr since my Seth usually takes two actions to kill a Wary Sutr.

If you go with L!Azura I would probably water bless Seth.  Elsewise an Astra blessing for scoring should be obvious. Kaden is already water blessed so this route may give your team a fair bit of stat boosts while giving at least a bit of lift boost due to two water legendaries getting the mythic boost. Plus this way ensures you have some ranged damage which can be helpful in whittling away some HP from non-DC threats and Azura can of course dance whomever is best off eliminating a threat making it easier to go on the offense after the tanking start. The way this team plays is obvious. Buff the crap out of Fjorm and Kaden, keep Kaden with one open space between them, and if possible keep Seth and Naga(or whoever has defense tactics) offset to the sides with that space between them all empty. Actually since this is talking about Naga if possible you may want Naga to sit in that space. But you do often want an empty space so unsure how often you would pull that off. If unable to keep everyone buffed, keep Kaden at least buffed since he can easily spread it around as needed.

This team obviously stinks for climbing, but if your only go is to maintain it can work. But you'll really feel defense losses since you lack a full set of Mythic blessings and the lack of using a bonus unit(unless you use your wildcard slot for that). You really have to watch out for panic though. And probably green mages too. I also am unsure of how well she will work in Astra season. I use this basic set up for Light season with a second Eir as my wildcard, so all that extra Res and HP from the second Eir may actually be critical for Fjorm to work when not a bonus unit. In addition this team just simply loses to some setups. So it can be frustrating. Plus it functions far worse off season since you can't keep Fjorm in season all the time.




But as XRay says it is still early. Sometimes the first couple days can just really suck. So I don't worry too much about failing to maintain until closer to the weekend.

Yeah, I do want more DC fodder some time, as I know Brave Ike kicks ass with it. Btw, I didn't merge ALL the male Byleths I got. I actually foddered two for DC. Halloween Myrrh has DC as a result for instance. This was before Brave Ike got his refine, so back then I didn't think to give him DC.

I have been using Fjorm during water season, yeah. Same with legendary Azura. The only problem is, them and Naga are all blue, so that causes some imbalance. >_> That team idea you gave me sounds good. I don't know if I ever gave Seth his refine though, I have to look. And nope, I didn't. But I believe I have enough dew to do so. And now that's done.

True, sometimes you're going to have a bad day no matter what. I guess every now and then, I forget that. xP

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

This is not going to be a quick fix thing. This is going to take some time. While the maps might be different, you will eventually notice a pattern in maps and figure out how to deal with them.

Well, I sure hope so.

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

Against those teams, if I really cannot find a weak point to exploit, then I just Leroy Jenkins charge the AI and hope for the best. If I cannot beat them, might as well join them and copy the AI's favorite rush tactic. The only down side is that you cannot really use this tactic with an Enemy Phase team with the same level of effectiveness though.

Often times I just send my Galeforcer to break through the enemy front line to kill a Dancer/Singer in the back. This generally means the loss of a Galeforce unit, but at least I have now reached team size parity with four units on each side.

I see. Also doesn't help me that I can't stand Ophelia's design. But oh well.

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I'm probably going to drop out of T21 this week. I don't have a real astra team so I bootleg it most of the time and lost a lot right out of the gate along with all my ladders. Sucks but I'm waiting to make an Astra team until I pull a Nailah to give to B!Ike so I can do the Ike/Lucina pair for Astra season and Matt for light season. Don't really want to invest in a temp solution.

Might pay for that but oh well. I lose 240 lift every season. I'm at 11,150 so I think if I can win one or two more battles this season I'll be safe. Wish me luck I guess.

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Another lucky day with no Counter-Vantage measures on the defense team. I am in the top 1,000 right now! Although I will probably drop lower later.

Having 2 A Monstrous Harvest Hectors is so totally stupid when paired with Kronya. I cannot wait until I get Null C-Disrupt so I can counter-cheese the cheesy Firesweep too. Unless the team runs multiple Hardy Bearing units, Kronya is now practically unstoppable!

Here is my picture. As long as I get 1 Gold Throne, I think I will be super happy.

6hENtv0.png

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5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Alright, I can try that, but I feel like this would only help so much, because obviously these won't be the teams I face when I do use my Aether. But I'll take any progress at this point.

There are certain units I have a hard time with no matter what though. Ophelia for example. I can't ever counter her because she's basically impossible to tank, and so you want to take her out on player phase, but that's about equally impossible because she's probably going to be danced or buffed or whatever unit you would use to take her out will be put in danger of dying to someone else. Fallen Corrin is another bitch to defeat. She's just way too god damn tanky and hits hard right back.

How the heck do people deal with these absurd units?

It's a matter of stacking up enough buffs to minimize damage from the incoming Blazing AoE. Both my Surtr and Fjorm have shrugged it off. Just this previous Light season, I had Fjorm take a whopping 6 damage from one Blazing Light. Fjorm's heavily invested (+10, 9 flowers), but Surtr was only +0 (and +Spd/-Atk...) when he tanked those Ophelias.

I also want to second trying out the nukes and refreshers strat. Have a go at Nino, Rein, L!!Azura, Inigo and Naga. There should be enough raw power there to simply overwhelm most enemies.

Vantage shenanigans would be better, but unless you have very specific CC/DC-Vantage units just lying around, that's not going to be an option without further investment. You might be able to get away with it with Hrid or L!Hector, but they're very likely going to need extra damage support from an upgraded Bolt Tower. In fact, I actually used a neutral L!Hector for that very purpose before I converted Nino to CC-Vantage and built an Ares for DC-Vantage. He really did need that Bolt Tower and Fallen Takumi support, though.

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I just noticed I have to change Cecilia's C skill lol.

But that match was pretty easy. Didn't even needed much of those other 3 units. Lucina helped taking out the healing tower and then later hitting Kagero so Eirika would heal her instead of moving and I could take both on the next turn, but I don't think it was that necessary.

I don't regret foddering my only H!Jakob (who had CC from a Takumi way back) for Cecilia to become a monster. Foddering 5* to make other 5* into better units is the way to go, even if you don't have extra copies of them. 

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3 minutes ago, Rinco said:

But that match was pretty easy. Didn't even needed much of those other 3 units. Lucina helped taking out the healing tower and then later hitting Kagero so Eirika would heal her instead of moving and I could take both on the next turn, but I don't think it was that necessary.

I don't regret foddering my only H!Jakob (who had CC from a Takumi way back) for Cecilia to become a monster. Foddering 5* to make other 5* into better units is the way to go, even if you don't have extra copies of them. 

I need to give mine Vengeful Fighter. Mine has Barb Shuriken, Iceberg, Death Blow and Bold Fighter. She is +5, so I should finish her... She already have CC, but I liked the Bold Fighter set when I used Picnic Flora that I wanted Cecilia to have it as well.

Also... one of your Nagas... she has Chill Spd B Skill and Chill Spd Seal, to inflict Spd-14 on foes. You also should fix that. lol

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On 11/5/2019 at 12:32 AM, Anacybele said:

1:I said I knew what skill synergy was, not that I was an expert at it. 😕 Anyway, I understand what you're saying here. Also, why is your text grayed?

2: And if I had extra copies, I would fodder them. But I have so many units, of course not all get a lot of use. But that doesn't mean I want to get rid of them. I like Laevatein, so I intend to keep her. If I ever get extra copies of the units you think I should fodder, I'll do so.

3: Because I'm constantly losing, and I fear that if this keeps up, there may be a point where I actually won't be able to maintain my tier. And it took me long enough to make tier 20.

4: It's a seal too though. Couldn't I also use that?

5: Okay, fair enough. I understand.

6: Because just about all the advice I got is advice I can't use due to not having the resources. If I have them in the future, I'll use them.

1: Knowing what pieces make up a chess set does not mean you can play chess. It requires insight and seeing how units and skills work together to make a good offense or defense team. 

The grey text was a quote from you. You were only able to identify "some wings of mercy stuff" in that team. That's why I quoted you and wanted to show you why looking at skills and how they work together is so important. Once again, If you're confident in your abilities to know how a defense team works and what it is trying to accomplish, I can make a new set of units and you can tell me how their skills synergise. It's good training for when you have to face an actual defense team during your matches.

 

2: Hoarding is a pitfall. You have the resources available, you want to win more. I can't look at your barracks and say "these units will pretty much win your offense matches with their base kit". If you want to win, you;ll need to invest, and that may require giving good skills to your carry units, and yes, that means foddering off certain units. you can't make a cake without using ingredients. If you really want to keep that piece of butter, you'll need to buy more butter to make a good cake, or you don't and you have a shitty cake or no cake at all.

 

3: Then use the pages and pages of advice that have been pouring in so far. You seem pretty reluctant to try anything at all. You can't win with what you have right now, but you also don;t seem to want to change.

 

4: And how do you want to use 1 seal on five units at the same time? If you want to make a flier ball for defense, or a flying offense team, you'll need multiple copies. A defense needs 6, so you have elincia, the seal, and the 80K worth of feather that I mentioned needed. Offense might be able to make due with Elincia, the seal and two more. Still. You will need to invest for these kinds of things to work.

 

5: Good.

 

6: As stated above, you have the resources, not wanting to use them is not going to help you. 

11 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Still in need of help to win more. Isn't there anything I can do right now? Use fodder that I actually have available at the moment? Change a seal or two? Or change up my offensive team(s) a bit? I posted screenshots of my units. There HAS to be SOMETHING.

Otherwise, I'm pretty certain I'm not maintaining my tier this time.

After this post I'm working on the offense teams. It's going to be quite a read, so I'll be typing for a while. Stay tuned.

 

Next is something I saw in another thread where you posted that is very similar to the situation we're trying to convey to you here. You recommending fury to Chloey:

13 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Are you aware of how much I hate fury Ana?  Like really hate it enough I don't and won't use it on anyone unless I absolutely have to.  

 

 

13 hours ago, Anacybele said:

No, I didn't know you hated it. But you shouldn't hate it. It's really good when used properly. Trust me. I used to dislike it too, but that was before I learned how good it can really be.

 

 

Now let's change the people and the subject, but let the rest of the text stay the same:

13 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

You:

Are you aware of how much I hate Micaiah Vicious Sal?  Like really hate her enough I don't and won't use her or any alt unless I absolutely have to.  

 

 

13 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Me:

No, I didn't know you hated her. But you shouldn't hate her. She's really good when used properly. Trust me. I used to dislike her too, but that was before I learned how good she can really be.

 

I just flipped the people around and changed Fury to Micaiah. See how you are recommending Fury to someone who doesn;t like using fury because you KNOW how good fury can be in certain situation. We are doing the same thing, We're not advocating that you use Micaiah in every single gamemode, we just want to make your AR life easier since we know how useful she can be there. So if you can recommend fury to someone who isn;t a fan of the skill, why do you not see the same way when it is applied to you?

 

12 minutes ago, Rinco said:

I just recorded my match of the day. @Anacybele, you really should reconsider using M!Corrin, he's really good. This was against a stall team that you hate and I even had 3 of my units just strolling on the map, destroying some buildings.

https://youtu.be/3E4bcUEGZfI

 

Well played, I use Micaiah for these kinds of teams, also works like a charm. I didn't check the stats of your units, but do you have corrin and the Naga's built in such a way that they can soak chills from Cecilia as well?

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4 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I need to give mine Vengeful Fighter. Mine has Barb Shuriken, Iceberg, Death Blow and Bold Fighter. She is +5, so I should finish her... She already have CC, but I liked the Bold Fighter set when I used Picnic Flora that I wanted Cecilia to have it as well.

Also... one of your Nagas... she has Chill Spd B Skill and Chill Spd Seal, to inflict Spd-14 on foes. You also should fix that. lol

Lol, I just swapped Seals with the Eirs at the end of last season, I'm dumb. Both Nagas kits are poorly built yet. They're just there for the buffs and score, but I should look better into them.

@Vicious Sal Corrin still need merges for that, maybe flowers even, but I just swapped them from Light Season, so I have to look at it all again. I remember that in Light it was impossible for him to soak Chill Res

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Ok, so here it comes, a somewhat detailed summary of the most used tactics on AR Offense:

 

1: What makes an offense team:

An offense team consists of 5 units, these are usually divided in the following roles:

- 2 Mythics (Eg: 2x Naga)

- 1 Bonus unit (Eg: H!Hector)

- 1 Support units (Eg: Aversa)

- 1 Carry unit (Eg: Kronya)

 

Sometimes the offense mythic will be a bonus unit themselves, this allows for most often a second support or an additional dancer. Or maybe your support unit (Aversa) is a bonus unit, then it is also possible to use an additional support unit. 

When using only one mythic, additional support units are always the best option.

 

2. Using your mythics wisely:

Mythics are a staple of AR and you need to use them to climb higher. Most people are playing with two mythics, so that's what the focus will be about and I will be assuming people will be using two mythics for most of this "guide".

Currently we have two offence mythics, Eir and Naga. Eir is considered a great unit able to fulfil many roles. She can be used offensively and defensively. Naga on the other hand, is more supportive in nature and is mostly used to scavenge for Aether pots and being relegated to smiting carries into favourable positions. This has a few reasons, the first and foremost being Melee vs Eir being ranged. Eir can snipe buildings from two spaces away, can debuff from over a wall and is easier to position. Naga has to go in, whereas Eir can keep distance. 

Naga also has two weaknesses. Dragon and flying. With Naga herself being used by people on defense maps, and thrasir being a thing, Naga is having a harder day than when she was released. Naga is used on defence mainly to provide dragon effectiveness to other units, this way it is easier to snipe offense naga's, which are required to use. 

 

So what can Naga do, and what can Eir do?

- Eir, as said before, can be used offensively, she can kill mages rather easily, and debuff enemy units that cannot counter, snipe buildings and she can also provide support by using positional skills. Furthermore, her high Res and Spd mean that with investment, she can also soak the Chill Res or maybe Chill Spd from your main carry units. Soaking chills means that your support units have a stat that is at least 1 point higher than your main carry units stat. This makes sure that the carry unit will not be affected by the debuffs and that keeps them in a healthier fighting state. This is especially valuable when using a Tank strategy (in order of importance: Chill Res/Def, Spd) or a Galeforce strategy (Chill Atk, Chill Spd)

It is also valuable to fodder units like cynthia for their link skills, if naga is going to be a smitebot, at least have her buff the unit she is smiting.

When fully merged and invested, both can do potential things like tanking with Distant/Close counter or lighting breath. These require dedicated team comps however, like stacking ward fliers on your other units. this effectively makes Eir/Naga the carry unit, freeing one slot for an additional support unit.

 

3: The bonus unit:

Short segment, you have to use a bonus unit, the bonus unit needs te have the appropriate blessing as well. A link skill and smite is always a decent option, drives and tactics can be useful. Most uninvested bonus units are there just for getting pots. H!Rolf for example can take fury2 from jagen for effective fury5. That makes him rather tanky with his bonus stats added, and his range lets him easily snipe fliers or pots. H!hector on the other hand has no movement, so his Duo skill is his main help, and with smite he can send other people ahead.

 

4: Supports:

A support is invaluable. They can do many things, and sometimes even function as a second carry. Here are a few noteworthy supports and why they work:

- M!Corrin: Gives his support partner a spectrum drive, can also use additional drives in his C and S slot to give loads of stats. When merged up, he can soak a lot of chills. With shove and a link skill he can buff even further.

- Aversa: Global debuffs and panic status to adjacent units that have lower Hp. Very valuable, she herself flies and has 2 range, so she can also help with mobility and getting pots.

- Kaden: gives out the stats that are visble on him to units within two spaces. If your carry and Kaden both have 6/6/6/6, your carry effectively has 12/12/12/12 in all stats. Highly susceptible to panic however.

- L!Azura: Additional movement and spectrum buffs, not much else to say here.

- L! Eliwood: Gives bonus doubler to your carry if done correctly. Pretty much kaden without the positional requirement.

There are also some niche supports that fucntion, where some function as a hybrid between carry and support.

- F!Takumi and H!Hector are both units thatdeal damage, this can help Kronya meet her Vantage requirement.

- Velouria provides an easier setup to Galeforce, and with wings of mercy, flashing blade and galeforce herself, she can swoop in and proc galeforce herself, thus supporting and carrying at the same time.

- B!Lucina, with her refine, is a great support unit, who works best with B!Ike, letting him consistently proc higher cooldown specials like aether.

- B!Fjorm/Loki: these can disrupt enemy teams with their isolation effect or gravity ploy effect. this can neuter dance teams severely.

 

5: Carry units:

This list is divided by what role units will perform, and after this I'll be talking about different team designs.

Tanks: Tanks want to have at least 1 great defensive stat (35 or higher usually) and one decent defensive stat(28/30 or so) that can be patched up with the buffs of your mythic. So a unit with high defense and middling res like Donnel will want to have the buffs from Eir during light season. 2 Eirs provide him with +10 Hp and + 10 Res, which makes him a lot tankier. In astra however, Naga provides Defense, which would make his stats very lopsided and easy to get nuked by mages. Tanks also want all the stats they can get, so if they have more merges, flowers and summoner support, their effectives greatly increases. Because of this, most people tend to look for tanks in the 3/4 star pool or in the grail shop.

Examples: 

- Donnel: With Casa blanca+(dull ranged), Distant counter and Null c Disrupt, Donnels is a prime Light season tank, capable of shrugging off most magic attacks and also being able to take on firesweep and Dazzle healers. Lukas however, has too low of a res stat to make this work, Donnel is more suited to the role.

- W!Cecilia: With fantastic mixed defenses and having plenty options for inheritable daggers, Cecilia can tank for days and heal back with special fighter and noontime. She also denies charging enemy specials this way. When she has Svallin Shield, she has no weaknesses aside from her 1 move. She is ranged however, which is better than Caineghis. Her being colourless is also great, as she will almost never have weapon triangle disadvantage.

- B!Ike: With % based damage reduction he can take on attacks for days is they do not have hardy bearing. Support from B!Lucina lets him aether every round if he has special spiral. 

 

"Counters" to tanks: 

- Panic status, often combined with "The cleaner+" or "Broadleaf Fan+" to make it hard for the tank to find a good place to tank from. if they have buffs, The cleaner does massive damage, if they go in without buffs, they are significantly less tanky to the rest of the team. 

- Infantry pulse charged specials: When 4 units carry charged luna, your tank will probably not survive.

- Rally and Restore traps on open maps: When rallied, some units might just blaze past your tank and kill your backline if they have the reach.

- Lunge+Galeforce: The tank and galeforces get swapped, and now a (for example) Tibarn has acces to your backline with three move. The rest of the team has Wings of mercy and your backline is toast.

these are not true counters, but they do make it harder for a Tank to do its job properly, and many defense maps take these ideas into account. 

A showcase of Tanking with Eirika: 

 

 

Hit and run: 

Hit and run is designed to hit the enemy tank, and then retreat back far enough that even after a dance from L!Azura, the defense team will not be able to reach. this will force the defence team to send out their carries(since they got danced) and make the stand at the frontlines. After the enemy defense team has been completely ruined with their new position, the hit and run team can easily pick off the highest threats, and proceed to gather up the Aether.

 

Examples:

 

- B!Lyn, Reinhardt, L!Leif: With their insane range they can attack from afar, get danced, and proceed to reposition themselves and the dancer away from the enemy team.

- Dancers, L!Azura especially: Used to get units out of harms way.

- Savage blow firesweep/razzle dazzle healers: These units often don't do a lot of damage because of lower BST's, so they use splash damage to whittle down the enemy.

 

"Counters"

- Well placed traps and buildings: this can creat chokepoints and dificult decisions for the hit and run team. Sometimes they might have to use up some turns to test the traps, or break enough buildings. Chokepoints also limit the amount of places units can be pulled back to.

- Double dancer restore traps: With multiple dancers and Restore, some maps might get triggered on turn one. this leads to your team getting picked off before getting into position.

Example of effective hit and run: 

 

 

Close counter-Vantage teams:

 

Close counter vantage teams are designed to whittle down the enemy with passive damage and/or debuffs. They want to get their carry into vantage range, so that they can just throw them into the enemy team and see everything expode on enemy phase. They often test traps beforehand and use dancers to multiply the amount of splash damage they can do beforehand. Distant or close counter are absolutely required.

 

Examples:

- Nino, Tarja and Leavatein: All of these are blade- units. They stack buffs on themselves to reach sky high damage numbers and want everything else to explode onto them.

- Sword Reinhardt uses his double attack to simulate high atk stats. Same goes for keaton and L!Leif.

- Kronya: A special case, she wants the enemy Hp to be as low as possible so that she can use her weapon to activate vantage.

- Jeorge: Great vs flier balls because he carries effective damage, and great vs mages because of his added atk bonus and his damage reduction. This allows him to act as a tank vs certain teams even at lowered health.

- Matthew: Gets massive damage boosts from the debuffs enemies carry. 

 

"Counters"

- Unsnipable healing towers: These can be a pain, they can heal a units back to full and that can cause the vantage user to miss a kill, and that can cost them their lives. Vantage teams often throw all their eggs into the one basket of the vantage unit, so if that units dies, they often immediately surrender.

- Low level bolt traps: If the enemy has no way to safely get into vantage range, their strategy fails from the start.

- Firesweep, Razzle dazzle and hardy bearing: All ways to shut down a vantage user, being unable to counterattack is a deathsentence for them (Except Kronya if she has Null C Disrupt) and hardy bearing shuts down vantage itself, so they'll be attack first and die. This shuts down CC vantage units very hard if you have multiple or unsnipeable users of this skill.

 

A good example of Keaton as a CC vantage unit, bad sound: 

 

 

Galeforce:

Galeforce users charge the enemy team very quickly and try to take out as many threats on one turn. they often leave the healer or dancer alive because they are not much of a threat.

Galeforce users often carry wings of mercy so that the entire team can com in and follow up with more gale force procs. Even the dancers often run flashing blade, because if a Dancers WOm's in, kills something and then activates galeforce, she can dance after her galeforce proc, essentially doubling her effectiveness.

Galeforce users also do not want too much attack, if they oneshot the enemy, they don't proc galeforce. 

Galeforce users sometimes want to move on turn one, or they might wait until turn three to have the bolt tower activate.

Galeforce units need a certain combination of things:

- Quickened pulse + heavy/flashing blade

- Slaying weapon + heavy/flashing blade

- Slaying + guaranteed followups mechanics

- Slaying + extra cooldown charges

Etc

 

Examples:

- Peri: With her slaywing weapon that gives extra stats when not at full health, she can use Duma's upheavel to become a monster on turn 2. 

- Edelgard: With her automatic followup when surrounded by enemies, she does not carry about a speed check.

- Navarre: Has - 2 Cooldown as his special refine, and a slaying effect. Can proc Galeforce is he doubles, even without heavy/flashing blade.

- Velouria: Gives herself and a supported all -2 Cooldown. 

 

"Counters:"

- Guard frontline: if you can't charge your special, you can't activate it

- Well placed bolt traps: If the bolt trap is activated an they can't proc galeforce anymore, you might lose your frontline of defensive units, but they won;t be able to sweep your team either. this is a fine line however, bolt trap(or bolt towers of offence) are often used to get units into a good kill range for the galeforce user.

- Vantage: If you carry a vantage user on your defense, the galeforcers might not be able to kill it anymore after they use their bolt tower.

 

A great example of how to run galeforce: 

 

So that was quite a writeup. there is more, and I would appreciate it greatly if others add to this. If you have a strategy that you employ, or have thought of a counter to certain team comps, please do tell.

 

in order of ease of use, i'd rate them as follows: Tank > CC Vantage >Hit and Run=Galeforce

 

 

 

 

Edited by Vicious Sal
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6 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

It's a matter of stacking up enough buffs to minimize damage from the incoming Blazing AoE. Both my Surtr and Fjorm have shrugged it off. Just this previous Light season, I had Fjorm take a whopping 6 damage from one Blazing Light. Fjorm's heavily invested (+10, 9 flowers), but Surtr was only +0 (and +Spd/-Atk...) when he tanked those Ophelias.

I also want to second trying out the nukes and refreshers strat. Have a go at Nino, Rein, L!!Azura, Inigo and Naga. There should be enough raw power there to simply overwhelm most enemies.

Vantage shenanigans would be better, but unless you have very specific CC/DC-Vantage units just lying around, that's not going to be an option without further investment. You might be able to get away with it with Hrid or L!Hector, but they're very likely going to need extra damage support from an upgraded Bolt Tower. In fact, I actually used a neutral L!Hector for that very purpose before I converted Nino to CC-Vantage and built an Ares for DC-Vantage. He really did need that Bolt Tower and Fallen Takumi support, though.

What buffs would I need? Tbh, the descriptions of AoE skills kind of confuse me on how exactly the damage is calculated.

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

2: Hoarding is a pitfall. You have the resources available, you want to win more. I can't look at your barracks and say "these units will pretty much win your offense matches with their base kit". If you want to win, you;ll need to invest, and that may require giving good skills to your carry units, and yes, that means foddering off certain units. you can't make a cake without using ingredients. If you really want to keep that piece of butter, you'll need to buy more butter to make a good cake, or you don't and you have a shitty cake or no cake at all.

How is having a whole bunch of units to use a pitfall when it only increases my options?

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

3: Then use the pages and pages of advice that have been pouring in so far. You seem pretty reluctant to try anything at all. You can't win with what you have right now, but you also don;t seem to want to change.

...Change? What do you mean by change? I'm just trying to improve my win rate, that has nothing to do with changing anything about myself.

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

4: And how do you want to use 1 seal on five units at the same time? If you want to make a flier ball for defense, or a flying offense team, you'll need multiple copies. A defense needs 6, so you have elincia, the seal, and the 80K worth of feather that I mentioned needed. Offense might be able to make due with Elincia, the seal and two more. Still. You will need to invest for these kinds of things to work.

I never said to use the seal on five units. I meant use it on one unit and give the other units inheritance or some other skill.

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

6: As stated above, you have the resources, not wanting to use them is not going to help you. 

Except as I've said more than once, I do NOT have the resources.

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

Next is something I saw in another thread where you posted that is very similar to the situation we're trying to convey to you here. You recommending fury to Chloey:

lol that's not similar at all. A skill and a character are two different things. I don't have to stop disliking a character just because that character might be good in battle. A skill is just a skill. It's either helpful or it isn't. A character has writing, design, backstory, stats, etc. All there is for a skill is its usefulness on a unit. Nothing more. It's not a good comparison.

Also, I don't even have Brave Micaiah or dancing Micaiah, so it doesn't matter anyway.

3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

I didn't check the stats of your units, but do you have corrin and the Naga's built in such a way that they can soak chills from Cecilia as well?

My only built Corrins are Summer Corrin and Adrift female Corrin.

And I see your long post about offensive teams, I'll gradually go through it. It's too long to quote at present.

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41 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Tbh, the descriptions of AoE skills kind of confuse me on how exactly the damage is calculated.

Before combat this unit initiates, foes in a wide area around target take damage equal to (unit's Atk minus foe's Def or Res).

Def is chosen if the unit does physical damage. Res is chosen if the unit does magical damage.

Ophelia, for example, will target foe's Res, while if Ike or Fred have a AoE Special, they will target foe's Def.

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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@Vicious Sal Good post. But I think I kinda disagree on the Tank being easier than Vantage. If you have the resources to pull the vantage strat off it gets pretty darn easy. The problem is that the window of units who can pull it off is far narrower than who can pull of omega tanking, which I suspect is why you rate it as being not quite as easy as omega tanking. But that might change once we get a Light or Astra Mythic that grants atk. A big part of Omega tanking is the blessings after all. It lets a lot of people who normally wouldn't have shot at doing so do so.

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What buffs would I need? Tbh, the descriptions of AoE skills kind of confuse me on how exactly the damage is calculated.

 

Res. Res. and more Res. Or defense for the oddball that puts it on a non-mage. Basically AoE ignores the weapon triangle and in battle buffs. So the only thing that matters are blue numbers, like from tactics. Elsewise it is a simple their atk vs you defense or res stat(depending on what the foe normally targets). Most folks use the 1.5 ones so when battling an Ophelia you simply compare your res to 1.5x Ophelia's ATK(probably around 55-60 at least , so 82-90 atk as her final number is fair to assume). So as you can imagine most folks are going to. . . wait. . . @Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi how did you get Fjorm's visible res up to at least 76? Lets see. +RES is 37. 4 from being +10 is 41. Double light blessing is 51. 2 from Summoner support is 53. 2 from dragon flowers is 55. Fortress DEF/RES is another 6 for 61. A boost from Tactics is 67 or if you use a method for +7 you have 68. Fortress RES in the seal is another 5. 73. . . I don't know where the other at least 3 points come from. And of course I completely forgot that you can debuff. A Chill Attack would cover that gap nicely as would the Shrine, Not hard for Ophelia to have the highest ATK+SPD. She is also vulnerable to panic if the enemy uses visible buffs on her. Still though that is actually a bit more RES than I thought Fjorm could get.

12 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I do want more DC fodder some time, as I know Brave Ike kicks ass with it. Btw, I didn't merge ALL the male Byleths I got. I actually foddered two for DC. Halloween Myrrh has DC as a result for instance. This was before Brave Ike got his refine, so back then I didn't think to give him DC.

 

Yeah that would do it. Part of the reason I ended up being a hoarder for skills like DC was purely because I got burned like that once. Though holding onto two 'fodderable' copies may not count as hoarding per se. Particularly since both have an addition skill slated for inheritance at the same time. Ruptured Sky for my spare M!Byleth and Null C-Disrupt for my spare Nailah.

12 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I have been using Fjorm during water season, yeah. Same with legendary Azura. The only problem is, them and Naga are all blue, so that causes some imbalance. >_> That team idea you gave me sounds good. I don't know if I ever gave Seth his refine though, I have to look. And nope, I didn't. But I believe I have enough dew to do so. And now that's done.

I feel ya there. My Keaton team is Triple Red. And with threats like Ophelia running around you can imagine how that can take some work to get around at times. It is even worse if the bonus unit is red. Then it is a FOUR red team, with only my TA Kaden to offer anti-blue support.

Seth may not be an A-Tier unit, but for any team that wants Tactics he can be a good slot in. SPD is one of the more important stats to pop up and ATK tactic isn't too hard to get as a C Skill. Res or Def in the seal as your needs need. Sadly since you are looking at an Astra team right now you can't do the fun Seth shenanigans. Foe have an L!Azura that you don't want to dance someone? Did the foe put fortress skills on her to try and prevent her from attacking? Well she really has the hots for Seth. Just won't leave him alone. If he is in range she will go and say hi. And with Kaden support he can have enough speed to block the double. Add in Eir Support and he can survive and drain not only her action but an action of one of the other foes(and if they are a green unit he can survive that too sometimes, either way he eats up 2 actions which can really change the tide of battle).  But even if he won't survive it can still be a good choice to sacrifice him to eat L!Azura's action. Thanks to Kaden's B skill he can still provide spd and res to himself and Fjorm even if Seth is taken out. Miss out on attack though. If you goal is sustaining tier rather than climbing, perfect matches are not needed. You can afford to drop 1 or sometimes 2 units each battle as long as you win in the end.

And that brings me back to the 'this team sucks at climbing' mantra. Maybe a better player can climb with it, but this type of setup for me is pure sustain.

 

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

My only built Corrins are Summer Corrin and Adrift female Corrin.

 

 



Pretty sure the part about Corrin's stats was addressed to Rinco and his video.

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21 minutes ago, Usana said:

Res. Res. and more Res. Or defense for the oddball that puts it on a non-mage. Basically AoE ignores the weapon triangle and in battle buffs. So the only thing that matters are blue numbers, like from tactics. Elsewise it is a simple their atk vs you defense or res stat(depending on what the foe normally targets). Most folks use the 1.5 ones so when battling an Ophelia you simply compare your res to 1.5x Ophelia's ATK(probably around 55-60 at least , so 82-90 atk as her final number is fair to assume). So as you can imagine most folks are going to. . . wait. . . @Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi how did you get Fjorm's visible res up to at least 76? Lets see. +RES is 37. 4 from being +10 is 41. Double light blessing is 51. 2 from Summoner support is 53. 2 from dragon flowers is 55. Fortress DEF/RES is another 6 for 61. A boost from Tactics is 67 or if you use a method for +7 you have 68. Fortress RES in the seal is another 5. 73. . . I don't know where the other at least 3 points come from. And of course I completely forgot that you can debuff. A Chill Attack would cover that gap nicely as would the Shrine, Not hard for Ophelia to have the highest ATK+SPD. She is also vulnerable to panic if the enemy uses visible buffs on her. Still though that is actually a bit more RES than I thought Fjorm could get.

That explains it. I don't use many high Res units. Mainly because I don't get many of those to begin with...

23 minutes ago, Usana said:

I feel ya there. My Keaton team is Triple Red. And with threats like Ophelia running around you can imagine how that can take some work to get around at times. It is even worse if the bonus unit is red. Then it is a FOUR red team, with only my TA Kaden to offer anti-blue support.

Seth may not be an A-Tier unit, but for any team that wants Tactics he can be a good slot in. SPD is one of the more important stats to pop up and ATK tactic isn't too hard to get as a C Skill. Res or Def in the seal as your needs need. Sadly since you are looking at an Astra team right now you can't do the fun Seth shenanigans. Foe have an L!Azura that you don't want to dance someone? Did the foe put fortress skills on her to try and prevent her from attacking? Well she really has the hots for Seth. Just won't leave him alone. If he is in range she will go and say hi. And with Kaden support he can have enough speed to block the double. Add in Eir Support and he can survive and drain not only her action but an action of one of the other foes(and if they are a green unit he can survive that too sometimes, either way he eats up 2 actions which can really change the tide of battle).  But even if he won't survive it can still be a good choice to sacrifice him to eat L!Azura's action. Thanks to Kaden's B skill he can still provide spd and res to himself and Fjorm even if Seth is taken out. Miss out on attack though. If you goal is sustaining tier rather than climbing, perfect matches are not needed. You can afford to drop 1 or sometimes 2 units each battle as long as you win in the end.

And that brings me back to the 'this team sucks at climbing' mantra. Maybe a better player can climb with it, but this type of setup for me is pure sustain.

I see. Well, I'm never going to climb to the highest tiers, because I'm incapable of having the skill and/or resources to do so. So if I can sustain tier 20 or 21 (if I ever got to 21, which I also doubt), I'd be satisfied.

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9 hours ago, XRay said:

Another lucky day with no Counter-Vantage measures on the defense team. I am in the top 1,000 right now! Although I will probably drop lower later.

Having 2 A Monstrous Harvest Hectors is so totally stupid when paired with Kronya. I cannot wait until I get Null C-Disrupt so I can counter-cheese the cheesy Firesweep too. Unless the team runs multiple Hardy Bearing units, Kronya is now practically unstoppable!

Here is my picture. As long as I get 1 Gold Throne, I think I will be super happy.

6hENtv0.png

Ayyee good luck, hope you can maintain it!!

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27 minutes ago, Usana said:

Res. Res. and more Res. Or defense for the oddball that puts it on a non-mage. Basically AoE ignores the weapon triangle and in battle buffs. So the only thing that matters are blue numbers, like from tactics. Elsewise it is a simple their atk vs you defense or res stat(depending on what the foe normally targets). Most folks use the 1.5 ones so when battling an Ophelia you simply compare your res to 1.5x Ophelia's ATK(probably around 55-60 at least , so 82-90 atk as her final number is fair to assume). So as you can imagine most folks are going to. . . wait. . . @Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi how did you get Fjorm's visible res up to at least 76? Lets see. +RES is 37. 4 from being +10 is 41. Double light blessing is 51. 2 from Summoner support is 53. 2 from dragon flowers is 55. Fortress DEF/RES is another 6 for 61. A boost from Tactics is 67 or if you use a method for +7 you have 68. Fortress RES in the seal is another 5. 73. . . I don't know where the other at least 3 points come from. And of course I completely forgot that you can debuff. A Chill Attack would cover that gap nicely as would the Shrine, Not hard for Ophelia to have the highest ATK+SPD. She is also vulnerable to panic if the enemy uses visible buffs on her. Still though that is actually a bit more RES than I thought Fjorm could get.

That's only half how it actually works. Yes, the AoE ignores weapon triangle and combat buffs, but Blazing is 1.5*(Atk - Res), not 1.5*Atk - Res. This means that the more you can shorten that gap, the faster Ophelia's damage falls. My Fjorm had 56 Res after Res Tactic and their Ophelia had 60 Atk, which led to 1.5*(60 - 56) = 6 damage. My Fjorm also runs Bonus Doubler, so she had 62 Res in combat, which means that Ophelia's actual attacks then proceeded to do 0. One thing I want to note about these AoE Specials is that even though the AoE itself only compares visible Atk and Res, in-combat Res is still very useful if stacked very high. That's kind of the principle on what made my Surtr able to just face tank his way through, really.  Once you hit about 45 visible Res (can probably get away with 40ish if your HP is really high), if you can stack enough combat Res buffs to make you take 0 damage, then eating a 20ish-damage hit isn't so bad. My Surtr would frequently eat about that much damage, then have Ophelia poke him for 5 damage on her actual attack. Similar result from W!Fae on Astra season (though I've replaced her with B!Ike at this point since everyone and their mother is fielding some kind of anti-dragon after Thrasir's debut).

 

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1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

Ayyee good luck, hope you can maintain it!!

I am thinking about doing the same for Light Season too, but I will need to wait until next year for my wallet to recharge to summon more AMH!Hectors.

Having a Kronya for both seasons would be amazing.

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Just now, XRay said:

I am thinking about doing the same for Light Season too, but I will need to wait until next year for my wallet to recharge to summon more AMH!Hectors.

Having a Kronya for both seasons would be amazing.

Can't you just change her Blessing weekly? I know people do it with B!Fjorm~

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