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2 hours ago, Usana said:

Alright. I am confused. My Larum on my defense team REALLY does not like dancing. She would rather attack Libra for zero damage than to dance Amelia or in this case attack the Altina. Part of the reason I am using her is because her weapon is a Hardy Bearing weapon to get around Vantage. Even if she couldn't quite get the kill on Altina(looks like she misses it by 1hp), I don't get why she went after the Libra. Particularly since Amelia would have killed Altina if danced.  Does the AI prioritize the Savage Blow + Dagger Debuff to Corrin that much?

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The only thing I can think of is the savage blow. That is a leftover from using her elsewhere that I just never bothered to take off since I figured the chip might help Thrasir in some rare instances and I didn't really have anything else for her C that I thought would make a bigger difference. But she will do this routinely. Suiciding into things rather than dancing(she actually survived this time which is kinda surprising). Does Savage blow really break the dancer AI or is something else afoot that I am missing?

BTW, I still won that defense. They couldn't cut through my armors in the time limit. However, Larum preferring to attack vs dancing even when she can't do damage has worked against me many times. So if that is Savage Blow's fault, then savage blow must go.

Well she does have two Atk boosting Skills on her right now so it may be a good idea to lower her Atk rather than raising it. I would take Savage Blow off of her and see if it makes any difference to her attack pattern since debuffs are prioritized by the AI to an extent, but I'm not sure about chip damage.

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On 1/5/2020 at 3:03 AM, Usana said:

Alright. I am confused. My Larum on my defense team REALLY does not like dancing. She would rather attack Libra for zero damage than to dance Amelia or in this case attack the Altina. Part of the reason I am using her is because her weapon is a Hardy Bearing weapon to get around Vantage. Even if she couldn't quite get the kill on Altina(looks like she misses it by 1hp), I don't get why she went after the Libra. Particularly since Amelia would have killed Altina if danced.  Does the AI prioritize the Savage Blow + Dagger Debuff to Corrin that much?

I tried a quick mock-up with my own units. I don’t have Larum, so I had to work with Olivia (Savage Blow C, Hardy Bearing Seal).

The conclusion I drew is that if a refresher is capable of dealing at least five damage to any unit in their range, then they must attack one of them. However, outside of the fact that they must attack, they seem to use the same priority order as anyone else (i.e. they don’t necessarily attack the unit they can deal at least 5 damage to). Savage Blow doesn’t seem to make a difference. I would agree with Landmaster’s assessment that you should try reducing her Atk.

Here are the tests I ran:

Spoiler

Visual:

Description:

In my first two tests, she was able to deal 1 damage to Caeda, and danced Camilla both with and without Savage Blow. I ran a third test with Lucina not in range, but close enough to provide Distant Guard. Olivia still refreshed Camilla.

I was puzzled for a bit, but then got a sneaking suspicion and switched one of the Nagas to Altina, so Olivia was able to deal 6 damage to Caeda. Three more tests: for the two with Lucina in range, Olivia attacked Lucina, both with and without Savage Blow. When Lucina was not in range, she attacked Caeda, dying to Glimmer.

Finally, I gave Camilla Spur Atk, and left Lucina in Olivia’s attack range. After Camilla attacked, Olivia attacked and KO’d Caeda.

So, based on those tests, I conclude that Olivia’s ability to deal at least five damage is what causes her to attack, and after that, she follows the usual priority rules that we all know and love....Ok, I actually don’t know them, but I believe it has something to do with (1) getting KOs, (2) not dying, (3) maximum damage dealt, and (4) debuffing.

 

Edited by LordFrigid
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@Landmaster@LordFrigid Thanks for the insights and in LordFrigid's case the tests. I guess what I had been wondering was if the savage blow counted for the must attack 5 damage. LordFrigid shows that isn't the case. In fact

Quote

i.e. they don’t necessarily attack the unit they can deal at least 5 damage to)

I think this from LordFrigid explains why Larum didn't dance in this case. While I know she didn't have enough attack to KO Altina, she probably had enough to do 5 damage. And obviously Larum doesn't have the defense to take a brave attack. Had she suicided into Altina doing 5 or so damage in the process I would have understood why, it was the going after Libra that confused me. I think I didn't realize that they could choose to attack the person they couldn't damage over attacking the one that triggered that clause and thus was thinking Savage Blow damage must have counted.

The unfortunate thing is that Larum's whole point of being this team's refresher is in being a back up Hardy Bearing hammer for people like Altina or the bulky dragons that try it. The dragons are usually the most problematic ones. Both Amelia and Myrrh can soak hits from Altina, and even Jakob doesn't fair too badly since she is too slow to quad and hit him with her special. So Larum is my dragon killer. And those things get rather bulky at times. Anyways looks like my real problem her is that I thought Larum could get a high enough attack to take out Vantage users when she doesn't have the stat total to pull that off. I was willing to deal with her attacking and suiciding some of the time if it meant having a backup for eliminating vantage users, but apparently she can't do that.

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Here are some tips for AR that I learned today and want to share with you guys:

  • Do not remove Flashing Blade 4 from your Thrasir, unless the team has Infantry Pulse units. I won a match today because Thrasir had double Swift Sparrow, and without FB 4 she was not able to trigger her special and failed to kill Altina.
  • In defense, do not leave your  L!Leif in range of the lighting trap unless the healing tower heals more than the trap. I was able to bait and kill a Leif because the trap did 30, and the tower healed 25. Hawkeye did the amount of damage needed to kill him.
  • If you use two Nagas, at least change the B skill of one of them. Chill Spd do not stack
  • Check foe's skills before starting the match, so you will not place your Kronya without CC in range of Duma that has both armored boots and is adjacent to an ally that has Armor March.
  • Also, do not make a Kronya with Obstruct B skill. lol   I still don't know why that.
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9 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

If you want to achieve that, you'll likely need to find a way to have her Special pre-charged, which probably isn't possibly with your current team comp unless you have a spare Sothis so she can run Time's Pulse + Quickened Pulse + Moonbow.

I do indeed have a spare Sothis I have been sitting on. I had originally thought to give Larum Quickened Pulse since Jakob isn't using it in this setup, but discarded the idea since she doesn't usually handle a counter attack too well. But I did this set up back when I didn't have a spare Sothis sitting around. Though not sure if she would be worth it since I only use Larum in AR defense and it isn't like the current defense losses to the point where I have to worry about rewards from defense or dropping.

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2 hours ago, Usana said:

I do indeed have a spare Sothis I have been sitting on. I had originally thought to give Larum Quickened Pulse since Jakob isn't using it in this setup, but discarded the idea since she doesn't usually handle a counter attack too well. But I did this set up back when I didn't have a spare Sothis sitting around. Though not sure if she would be worth it since I only use Larum in AR defense and it isn't like the current defense losses to the point where I have to worry about rewards from defense or dropping.

Yeah, if that's all you're using her for, then that definitely doesn't sound like a great investment.

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Thanks to everyone who gave feedback for my Defense team. I'm ending off the Season with 7 Successes, 3 from a team I made spur of the moment on yesterday. It's only a slight deviation from the original team because Duma just doesn't add much to the team at the moment and I reaaallyy am a bit too obsessed with Panic at the moment~

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Pretty bleh week for me. I played far too sloppily at the end. I could probably blame the fact that I tried to play AR on Friday afternoon instead of taking a nap that I really needed (it did not end well), but there's really no excuse. I wound up in T26 thanks to a solid -18 performance on defense.

~

6 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Thanks to everyone who gave feedback for my Defense team. I'm ending off the Season with 7 Successes, 3 from a team I made spur of the moment on yesterday. It's only a slight deviation from the original team because Duma just doesn't add much to the team at the moment...

Congratulations! I'm jealous that you got a defense setup to work well on Wintry. I've always low-key wanted to have a defense map on that terrain, for thematic purposes.

6 hours ago, Landmaster said:

...I reaaallyy am a bit too obsessed with Panic at the moment~

> Implying that it's even possible to be too obsessed with Panic. Tsk.

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

The fruits of your labor

Happy to be of assistance! I have to edit something really quick, but I'll be sure to check it out!

Edited by LordFrigid
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2 hours ago, LordFrigid said:

Pretty bleh week for me. I played far too sloppily at the end. I could probably blame the fact that I tried to play AR on Friday afternoon instead of taking a nap that I really needed (it did not end well), but there's really no excuse. I wound up in T26 thanks to a solid -18 performance on defense.

~

Congratulations! I'm jealous that you got a defense setup to work well on Wintry. I've always low-key wanted to have a defense map on that terrain, for thematic purposes.

> Implying that it's even possible to be too obsessed with Panic. Tsk.

Edit:

Happy to be of assistance! I have to edit something really quick, but I'll be sure to check it out!

I wish I could play sloppily and end up in T26

I was gonna keep the same terrain but W!Sothis on a defensive panel is not something we can handle so I was really looking for damn near any terrain where we could force people into going for straight for Raven. Ironically I missed the oversight that people can just choose to try to bait Alfonse instead but fortunately the AI outplayed the opponents that tried that~

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3 hours ago, Landmaster said:

I wish I could play sloppily and end up in T26

I was gonna keep the same terrain but W!Sothis on a defensive panel is not something we can handle so I was really looking for damn near any terrain where we could force people into going for straight for Raven. Ironically I missed the oversight that people can just choose to try to bait Alfonse instead but fortunately the AI outplayed the opponents that tried that~

Ah, I see what you mean...I too was treated to the bonus unit Winter Sothis experience. I could do without another round of that. Actually, now that I think about it, my own Dark defense map has that same terrain. I should probably change it. No way is my cobbled-together defense team going to be able to deal with that.

I see Legion’s Axe Raven allowed you to add more Infantry Pulse fun. Highlights for me were Alfonse & Sharena taking out every Altina, and Naga marveling at Thrasir’s power every time the latter defeated her (don’t ask why that caught my attention, because I have no idea). Honorable mention to the Draw Back loops.

I was surprised that more of the Altina users didn’t go up the left edge and stick her on the other side of the Healing Tower (though it looks like she’d need some support to eat the Luna). Sure, Alfonse & Sharena take Silvia’s dance and blow her up, but at that point she would already have dispatched Alm, Celica, and Thrasir. Seems like a better option than, say, sticking Donnel in range of 2 tank-busting green mages. Nice job catching that vulnerability, by the way.

Edited by LordFrigid
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I just promoted Sothe to 5* with the possible intention of making him a cc/vantage sweeper with Broadleaf Fan. I'm going with a dagger unit because I haven't had much success with my +10 Tharja, I guess all the panic in AR not being able to reliably keep her buffed up sometimes hurts. I was just wondering what blessing I should give Sothe so I can take advantage of the extra SP while training him. Since I don't have a lot of extra blessings to waste, I'd like to give him either Astra or Light, depending on which season he would be better at. My Thraja is light blessed, but like I said I'm probably gonna stop using her as a core component of a team so I don't mind also blessing Sothe light if it makes more sense.

EDIT: I'm also open to the ideas of other Broadleaf Fan users if someone is better or as good. I don't particularly like Sothe as a unit, I much prefer Kagero, but I read Sothe uses it better so I'll deal. I'll stick Kagero with her PRF on AR-D one day I guess. So anybody else besides Sothe?

Edited by TEKWRX
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I just read about someone being attacked 12 times today. I have a sneaking suspicion that the match making may not take pending battles into account when picking a defense. Which means if a number of people suspend their match until later, someone might get targeted an inordinate amount of times. Compound this with the fact that the start of the season has a very large number of people hammering the servers out the gate and I think that's the most likely explanation for weird streaks like this.

39 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

I just promoted Sothe to 5* with the possible intention of making him a cc/vantage sweeper with Broadleaf Fan. I'm going with a dagger unit because I haven't had much success with my +10 Tharja, I guess all the panic in AR not being able to reliably keep her buffed up sometimes hurts. I was just wondering what blessing I should give Sothe so I can take advantage of the extra SP while training him. Since I don't have a lot of extra blessings to waste, I'd like to give him either Astra or Light, depending on which season he would be better at. My Thraja is light blessed, but like I said I'm probably gonna stop using her as a core component of a team so I don't mind also blessing Sothe light if it makes more sense.

EDIT: I'm also open to the ideas of other Broadleaf Fan users if someone is better or as good. I don't particularly like Sothe as a unit, I much prefer Kagero, but I read Sothe uses it better so I'll deal. I'll stick Kagero with her PRF on AR-D one day I guess. So anybody else besides Sothe?

Sothe is about as good as it gets. If you do prefer a different unit, you might be able to make it work because Matthew essentially has a prf Broadleaf and his stat line is not nearly as offense-oriented, yet people have had success with him.

 

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20 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Sothe is about as good as it gets. If you do prefer a different unit, you might be able to make it work because Matthew essentially has a prf Broadleaf and his stat line is not nearly as offense-oriented, yet people have had success with him.

Thanks. I'll stick with Sothe. Does it matter which blessing I give him? My only team type I have success with in AR is tanking (Cecilia Astra, B!Ike Light), so I guess it doesn't matter I'll just score better in one or the other. Maybe Astra is better because Altina gives +Atk?

 

EDIT: I just read that Ares works better in Astra as a vantage sweeper due to Naga boosting his Def for Bonfire. Since I will be deploying Ares once I get some DC fodder, maybe I should just make Sothe a Light blessed unit so then I have both seasons covered?

Edited by TEKWRX
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It's unlikely he'll need the extra Atk most of the time (assuming you set up the debuffs on the whole enemy team), but I'd probably put him there because, even though you're not feeling Tharja right now, you still have her in Light. I guess one synergistic thing to consider: having him on the same team as Aversa.

Also, be really careful of enemy rally traps when you use Broadleaf. If someone rallies and then gets refreshed, all debuffs fall off, which can be a huge damage loss.

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3 hours ago, TEKWRX said:

I just promoted Sothe to 5* with the possible intention of making him a cc/vantage sweeper with Broadleaf Fan. I'm going with a dagger unit because I haven't had much success with my +10 Tharja, I guess all the panic in AR not being able to reliably keep her buffed up sometimes hurts. I was just wondering what blessing I should give Sothe so I can take advantage of the extra SP while training him. Since I don't have a lot of extra blessings to waste, I'd like to give him either Astra or Light, depending on which season he would be better at. My Thraja is light blessed, but like I said I'm probably gonna stop using her as a core component of a team so I don't mind also blessing Sothe light if it makes more sense.

In my opinion, Broadleaf Fan is a bit more risky than Blade mages for Counter-Vantage. A Blade mages' high Atk is self contained in the unit, while Broadleaf Fan's Atk depends on the enemy being debuffed, which can be an issue if the first enemy that attacks you is not debuffed enough or the enemies (especially cavalry and mages for example) that follow up are not debuffed because the debuffs from Broadleaf did not reach them. You are less susceptible to Panic though since you are not relying on your own buffs to deal damage.

2 hours ago, TEKWRX said:

EDIT: I just read that Ares works better in Astra as a vantage sweeper due to Naga boosting his Def for Bonfire. Since I will be deploying Ares once I get some DC fodder, maybe I should just make Sothe a Light blessed unit so then I have both seasons covered?

He is not that bad once he gets started, but he requires Velouria to get his Bonfire going.

Edited by XRay
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He doesn't necessarily need Velouria to get going, as I don't run her with him and have had plenty of success. He does need to attack into something that doesn't have a Guard effect and then get hit by an enemy without a Guard effect, though, so there is a bit of a limitation there. The upside is that if he does get to attack into something, he spread Def Smoke right away.

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Well, I do have Velouria so that's not an issue and will make things easier. Just need to get some DC fodder. I have an extra Nagi, but that's a waste because of Special Fighter, and an extra Byleth, but I really like him and just merged my other two copies so I may end up making him a 5* exclusive merge project. IDK. I'll wait and see what the upcoming Hector revival banner gives me

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On 1/7/2020 at 2:47 AM, LordFrigid said:

Ah, I see what you mean...I too was treated to the bonus unit Winter Sothis experience. I could do without another round of that. Actually, now that I think about it, my own Dark defense map has that same terrain. I should probably change it. No way is my cobbled-together defense team going to be able to deal with that.

I see Legion’s Axe Raven allowed you to add more Infantry Pulse fun. Highlights for me were Alfonse & Sharena taking out every Altina, and Naga marveling at Thrasir’s power every time the latter defeated her (don’t ask why that caught my attention, because I have no idea). Honorable mention to the Draw Back loops.

I was surprised that more of the Altina users didn’t go up the left edge and stick her on the other side of the Healing Tower (though it looks like she’d need some support to eat the Luna). Sure, Alfonse & Sharena take Silvia’s dance and blow her up, but at that point she would already have dispatched Alm, Celica, and Thrasir. Seems like a better option than, say, sticking Donnel in range of 2 tank-busting green mages. Nice job catching that vulnerability, by the way.

Yeah, Askran Kiddos are really great for Altina, since I didn't have much able to stop her before. I'm not really sure why Altina users just kinda let her get Panicked. Maybe they missed it on Silvia or just didn't want to waste the time to break the Tower, but I feel it would have probably worked out better since, true, everyone else would pretty much be dead by then.

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