Aether Raids General Thread

[Punished Dayni]

So, not as grand as some of you, but after nearly a year of struggling, a few weeks ago I finally cracked T21.

Barely, but making it there was really nice and I did it using a flier squad and all. None of that Ophelia/Rein/B!Lyn/L!Lucina/Multidancer cancer.

I've kept up since, I was just happy to make it.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

So, not as grand as some of you, but after nearly a year of struggling, a few weeks ago I finally cracked T21.

Barely, but making it there was really nice and I did it using a flier squad and all. None of that Ophelia/Rein/B!Lyn/L!Lucina/Multidancer cancer.

I've kept up since, I was just happy to make it.

Congratulations! Yeah, climbing is tough but you have made it to the lazy tier now. I have been super lazy the past two weeks and I forgot to play Aether Raids on some days but I still managed to stay in Tier 21, especially with double Lift and a fourth Ladder usage.

I am not sure about Reinhardt being cancer. I find his damage output actually kind of lacking when using Dire Thunder, so I swapped him out for Cordelia. In my opinion, Galeforce and Counter-Vantage is far better at dealing with crazy shenanigans that defense teams often put up.

But yeah, running two Dancers/Singers helps a lot in making the mode more bearable. BH!Lyn with Firesweep Bow is also godsend to counter any annoying builds the defense team can field, but any Firesweep archer will also do.

[Punished Dayni]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

Congratulations! Yeah, climbing is tough but you have made it to the lazy tier now. I have been super lazy the past two weeks and I forgot to play Aether Raids on some days but I still managed to stay in Tier 21, especially with double Lift and a fourth Ladder usage.

I am not sure about Reinhardt being cancer. I find his damage output actually kind of lacking when using Dire Thunder, so I swapped him out for Cordelia. In my opinion, Galeforce and Counter-Vantage is far better at dealing with crazy shenanigans that defense teams often put up.

But yeah, running two Dancers/Singers helps a lot in making the mode more bearable. BH!Lyn with Firesweep Bow is also godsend to counter any annoying builds the defense team can field, but any Firesweep archer will also do.

Well, when your teams are nowhere near built enough to tank a maxed out Rein it becomes challenging, never mind Ophelia (which thankfully Astra has an easy time with because Nagi). I've not exactly been using optimal teams (though as part of my light seasons Est and Pally have been putting in work in particular alongside Eir. My non-use of dancers is a lot of the problems.)

Why Galeforce with Vantage-Counter? Asking just to clarify.

As for Firesweep, I say good luck with getting any Fayes, I'm 0 so far. 😛

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Why Galeforce with Vantage-Counter? Asking just to clarify.

They do not have to be on the same team, although I do run Galeforce, Counter-Vantage, Firesweep, and two Dancers/Singers. I care more about getting easier wins rather than scoring high, but I can get into Tier 23 pretty easily, and can definitely get into Tier 22 even with lots of fuck ups.

Galeforce lets your nuke act twice which means you essentially have an "extra unit" on the team so to speak.

Counter-Vantage is a very flexible. It can kill most things on Player Phase and Enemy Phase. While most teams have some counter measure against Counter-Vantage, those counter measures sometimes is not enough, and sometimes the defense team completely lacks those counter measures.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

As for Firesweep, I say good luck with getting any Fayes, I'm 0 so far. 😛

Yeah, it is an expensive investment, but for players who like Player Phase play style, I think Firesweep Bow is a really good investment. It shuts down a lot of annoying Enemy Phase builds.

[Humanoid]

I thought that getting into T21 might be viable, but it turns out the wider tier 20 range means I can't get away with what I've been doing until now, which is to just eat 65 point defense losses every day. I didn't notice that T19 is only 1200 points wide, where T20 is 1600 points wide. Even if I score perfectly on offense, there are simply not enough points available with the Aether available per week to offset those lost on defense. That, and no longer being able to get away with using mostly PvE-oriented teams versus the defenses at this tier. I think my AR story ends here as I was only ever willing to go as far as zero AR-specific orb and feather expenditure would let me.

[Anacybele]

Another week of this mode being bullshit. When will IS actually make it good and fair? I'm pretty sure I'll keep losing nearly every battle despite using a fully leveled fortress and completely built up units until real improvements are made. Give us more ladder uses (maybe just a few though), maybe add more limitations to defensive map setups, and just overall make it a little easier to win. Right now, it is far too difficult in higher tiers and "pay to win" is definitely not a good idea.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Anacybele

[Diovani Bressan]

15 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Another week of this mode being bullshit. When will IS actually make it good and fair? I'm pretty sure I'll keep losing nearly every battle despite using a fully leveled fortress and completely built up units until real improvements are made. Give us more ladder uses (maybe just a few though), maybe add more limitations to defensive map setups, and just overall make it a little easier to win. Right now, it is far too difficult in higher tiers and "pay to win" is definitely not a good idea.

A lot of players, including myself and most of my friends, reached high tiers and we are all F2P players. If we can do it, you can do it as well.

Having a Fully Leveled Fortress is not a guaranteed victory. It requires the player's ability to use his units to get the victory. In my way to Tier 21, I won matches where I had a Lv 3 fort and my opponent had a Lv 5 fort.

I cannot say about your offensive team, because I don't know what units you use and how often you matches, but your defensive team is not that great. Pretty easy to bait and to get the pots. I hope in the tier you are this team works better. I would also remove that catapult, because outside the schools... it's pretty rare to find Lv 1 structures in the foe's offensive team. A higher level Dark Shrine could be useful as well.

what's the use of giving more ladders if the player don't get better in the mode? I wouldn't mind more ladders, even though some times I reach the end of the season with 1 or 2 ladders left.

I agree that the defensive could have some limitations, but the only thing I think is having only 1 dancer... but this should be for offensive as well.

 

[daisy jane]

16 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Another week of this mode being bullshit. When will IS actually make it good and fair? I'm pretty sure I'll keep losing nearly every battle despite using a fully leveled fortress and completely built up units until real improvements are made. Give us more ladder uses (maybe just a few though), maybe add more limitations to defensive map setups, and just overall make it a little easier to win. Right now, it is far too difficult in higher tiers and "pay to win" is definitely not a good idea.

 

I made tier 21 and I don't pay to win, or +10 every new unit who comes along. 
I didn't even have a fully levelled fortress when i got to tier 21 (I think i had my defense to the highest when i did, but not my offence) i just asked my friends and people around here one season because i was really tired of doing the tier 20 slog, i listened to what they said about fixing my defense (which gets a fair share of successes and losses with the two anchors (dead honest with you) are Camilla (F2P) and Est (F2P).).I'm also slowly cultivating another defense so i can alternate per seasons because this one suffers a lot through astra though two weeks ago when i basically burned through all my ladders and literally had to hope for my defense to carry me through it did  just that. 

a lot of it though is trial and error. sometimes i'm just amazed who moves, and who doesn't. and sometimes i'm able to shock myself and do things. (there are also units i'm surprised who can do things. ie: my Leanne can take out Duma with proper support. who knew? not me). 

 

i will agree though if there were some limitations (ie: one dancer like in Grand Conquest) that would be so much better though.
Honestly. i hate this mode. i legit only do it because i want flowers and grails. if 21 was a safe point i wouldn't even bother playing. i'd be happy at tier 21. (which is probably why there's no cut off safe zone)

[Rinco]

17 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Another week of this mode being bullshit. When will IS actually make it good and fair? I'm pretty sure I'll keep losing nearly every battle despite using a fully leveled fortress and completely built up units until real improvements are made. Give us more ladder uses (maybe just a few though), maybe add more limitations to defensive map setups, and just overall make it a little easier to win. Right now, it is far too difficult in higher tiers and "pay to win" is definitely not a good idea.

You don't need to be a whale to have do well in AR. I'm F2P and I've been on T21 since the 3rd or 4th Light Season, I guess.

AR is a little different in the sense that units that are good in other modes are not that good in AR. You have to build units in a certain way for it to work out.
What I've done from some time ago that makes it really easy for me to have at least a passable score each week is using 1 Tank and 1 Support unit for each season.
For Light, paired with 2 Eirs, I have Male Corrin as the support, pretty easy to have access to, since he's 3-4*, and S Supported with Corrin is Winter Cecilia, the tank. I've invested Grails and Flowers on her to help her get to the best possible stats and gave an extra copy of Close Counter I had to help her kill the melee units, but before that she could do some stuff already and my other units cleared the melees.

For Astra I have Brave Ike with DC and Urvan refined paired with Brave Lucina with her weapon refined. He tanks a lot of stuff and Aether keeps him healthy. 2 Nagas give him more stats to help it work out. 

The 5th unit in each season is just a bonus unit for the points, using some seal for support.

For my defense teams I try to have really aggressive units in a way that makes it hard for the enemy to approach without being compromised. My Dark team is a flyier ball with 2 Yunes, Aversa, Est, Caeda and Camilla. My Anima team is 2 Dumas, Lilina, Celica, Ophelia and Lewyn. All the 5* exclusives are unmerged.

I've saved orbs for the Mythic heroes because having 2 of each makes it much easier to earn lift. You also have to get out of the bubble of only using favorite heroes, since not everyone works out on AR. There are a lot of 3-4* heroes and Grail units that can pull their weight and are easy to merge. Try to test some stuff out, watch videos of ppl going through the process of assembling a defense team and playing their matches while discussing the tactics. It helped me a lot

[Anacybele]

Just because you can do it doesn't mean others can, actually. Other people are not you. I am not you. I just feel the only way I can actually do it is if the mode gets more changes.

Making a good defense team is not my aim since it's not really possible to get defense wins either due to actual players being a lot smarter than the AI. I just lower the potential lift loss as much as possible.

[Landmaster]

18 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Another week of this mode being bullshit. When will IS actually make it good and fair? I'm pretty sure I'll keep losing nearly every battle despite using a fully leveled fortress and completely built up units until real improvements are made. Give us more ladder uses (maybe just a few though), maybe add more limitations to defensive map setups, and just overall make it a little easier to win. Right now, it is far too difficult in higher tiers and "pay to win" is definitely not a good idea.

The mode is good and fair. Your opponents have built units, too, you know. Your units are not going to be any more advantaged than theirs. The Ladder was just recently upgraded and you can double up and fight less, so you don't even need all the ladder uses. You have more of an advantage than your opponent so they really don't need to nerf Defenses any more.

Nothing about AR is P2W. Someone just got T27 without even using SI on his units. 

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

The mode is good and fair. Your opponents have built units, too, you know. Your units are not going to be any more advantaged than theirs. The Ladder was just recently upgraded and you can double up and fight less, so you don't even need all the ladder uses. You have more of an advantage than your opponent so they really don't need to nerf Defenses any more.

Nothing about AR is P2W. Someone just got T27 without even using SI on his units. 

It was upgraded to just having one more use. I thought it might help a bit, but it isn't helping me much. I'm still running out of uses very fast.

Actually, offensive teams are at a big disadvantage because defense teams can have six units while offense teams can't, and offense teams benefit more from the map and trap setup.

Also, I never meant to say that it actually IS pay to win, I just mean turning it into that would be a bad idea.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Anacybele

[Diovani Bressan]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Just because you can do it doesn't mean others can, actually. Other people are not you. I am not you. I just feel the only way I can actually do it is if the mode gets more changes.

 Making a good defense team is not my aim since it's not really possible to get defense wins either due to actual players being a lot smarter than the AI. I just lower the potential lift loss as much as possible.

So you need to learn how AI works. How Rally skills take priority, how to use free movement skills like Guidance and Wings of Mercy. Things like that. Or just copy someone's Def team. It's nothing wrong in doing it.

I believe I already told you this, but I will repeat myself: The game doesn't need to change for you, you is the one that need to change for the game.

Also, I am not you as well, because I accpet that I need to change to make progress, and that I need to learn the rules in how to play the game. The game doesn't need to create new rules just for me to be able to play it. I adapted my playstyle to how this game works. Actually, I became a better player thanks to Aether Raids, because I learned how the AI works in a better way, both in Offensive and Defensive matches.

If you don't want to change and adapt to how the game plays, maybe this game is not for you. 

[Landmaster]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

It was upgraded to just having one more use. I thought it might help a bit, but it isn't helping me much. I'm still running out of uses very fast.

Actually, offensive teams are at a big disadvantage because defense teams can have six units while offense teams can't, and offense teams benefit more from the map and trap setup.

Also, I never meant to say that it actually IS pay to win, I just mean turning it into that would be a bad idea.

Then you must work on how you're tackling the maps. Defensive teams aren't advantaged. The AI can be easily abused if you understand the mechanics. With a good supertank, the team does nothing but suicide into your tank. They could have 7 or 8 units and they would likely add nothing because they just die.

[Anacybele]

Believe me, I've tried to do different things in this mode to get better results. But nothing I did worked. Only conclusion I could come to then is that the mode needs changes.

I do fine in other modes in this game. I struggle at LHBs and MHBs on infernal and abyssal difficulties, but that's the only problem I have outside of AR.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Anacybele

[daisy jane]

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Just because you can do it doesn't mean others can, actually. Other people are not you. I am not you. I just feel the only way I can actually do it is if the mode gets more changes.

Making a good defense team is not my aim since it's not really possible to get defense wins either due to actual players being a lot smarter than the AI. I just lower the potential lift loss as much as possible.

 

what? that doesn't even make any sense. 
No. you are not "Me" or anyone else but it didn't come easy for me. I struggle every week (sometimes thankfully i have a good week, but that's ALWAYS light. until they come up with someone better than naga who quite frankly sucks RIP my flying blue dragon, i'll always struggle, but i try to improve my team. You have to get out of your comfort zone, and create units that potentially win. 

Basically because I can't do the whole 4*+10 i'm limiting myself (am fine with it) but I am building units that will help me that are outside what I like. 
You need some galeforcers. You need some vantage sweepers. you need tanks. You need to be able to look at the team presented and know which one to use. Sometimes you think you can do it and you lose, sometimes your units (or the AI will change weird) and you can get surprised and you can win. every mode is a learning experience in how to get better.

The only way you can actually do it is to take the time to listen to the advice being given, have patience and take the time to learn some aspects. Also build some units that you don't even like (yah sometimes you have to give up your husbando/waifu and use units you don't have time for because they are helpful for the cause. if you choose NOT to do that  - (I have sometimes) then you have to work harder and smarter to overcome that aspect). 

It is possible to get defense wins. Saying that it's not possible it a cop out. You might not get 100 percent perfect all the time but if you took a little time and effort (and just copy some one's defense) you'll get a lot more than you think. I mean good gravy, there is no reason why you shouldn't have a Cav Line set up. You love horses. You have good ones. You've got Hrid, Reinhardt, Gunnthra. Build a Pain WrazzleDazzle, healer, get a firesweep bow slap on a Naga for Astra, slap on a Yune for Dark use the desert map. and poof. you're winning a lot more.  

I struggled.. i asked for help, i had people hold my hand through matches. i learned (for the most part) the ai movements. again sometimes some units move how i don't expect and i have to compensate. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Actually, offensive teams are at a big disadvantage because defense teams can have six units while offense teams can't, and offense teams benefit more from the map and trap setup

 

which is basically every single FE game. it's very rare that you have numbers advantages.

[Landmaster]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Believe me, I've tried to do different things in this mode to get better results. But nothing I did worked. Only conclusion I could come to then is that the mode needs changes.

I do fine in other modes in this game. I struggle at LHBs and MHBs on infernal and abyssal difficulties, but that's the only problem I have outside of AR.

That's not how the game works. The game is not going to get easier for you. You need to adapt to it, or you will not improve. It's as simple as that. If you think it's too much work, then that's fine, but you will have to accept that you will stay where you are in terms of your capability to beat the challenging maps.

[Rinco]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Believe me, I've tried to do different things in this mode to get better results. But nothing I did worked. Only conclusion I could come to then is that the mode needs changes.

I do fine in other modes in this game. I struggle at LHBs and MHBs on infernal and abyssal difficulties, but that's the only problem I have outside of AR.

It's not the mode that needs chance, since a lot of people get by without spending money on the game. You need to change your approach on the mode and on the units/builds you use, learn more about the AI and how it works/acts, try to understand how to build good offense/defense teams.

I find it strange that you say defense teams have advantage by having 6 units while offense only has 5, but at the same time you say it's impossible to have defense wins. Those two can't be a hard fact togheter, maybe it's you who is doing something wrong.

Could you show us your Def setups, with the builds of your units, and your offense teams? Maybe that way we can help better than just arguing without focus.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Rinco

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Rinco said:

Could you show us your Def setups, with the builds of your units, and your offense teams? Maybe that way we can help better than just arguing without focus.

Dont bother with this. Save yourself time and headaches.

[Vicious Sal]

39 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Dont bother with this. Save yourself time and headaches.

Amen to that, this has all been said multiple times before. All the help offered, all of it squandered, ignored, or just refuted. We all want to help each other get better, but if people just outright state that the advice you give does not work without trying it, it's not worth the effort. 

For everyone who wants to evaluate Defense teams and wants help, just add me and the other people in this thread. We're happy to spar over what works and what can be improved. (FC in sig if anyone wants to add.)

this week I am taking a break from AR, I need to get arena teams in a better spot, and I want to farm more feathers. I'm just busy. So far, no matches done on offense, and I have a 100% succes in defense, so still 11K lift. =]

[Maaka]

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Believe me, I've tried to do different things in this mode to get better results. But nothing I did worked. Only conclusion I could come to then is that the mode needs changes.

I do fine in other modes in this game. I struggle at LHBs and MHBs on infernal and abyssal difficulties, but that's the only problem I have outside of AR.

I'm going to leave the AI guide here once again just in case you misplaced it. 

https://vervefeh.github.io/FEH-AI/

Again, this is a great guide that will help you learn how the AI works and how to manipulate it. Doing well in AR requires some time and planning on most matches. I generally spend 5-10 minutes per turn on each of my matches, making sure I'm actually doing everything perfectly so I don't lose any units or miss any aether structures. Generally much more on turn 1 or even before entering the map, just so I can fully plan out the entire match before attempting anything. When I just throw my units randomly into the fray, I generally end up regretting it at the end of the season. Thankfully I still have all the gold chairs, but I have come far too close to missing one because I was being lazy and didn't want to spend the time calculating everything.

[Diovani Bressan]

@Vicious Sal I sent you a friend request. Not to evaluate my Defensive team, because I am happy with it the way it is, but to have you on my friend list. Username: Diovani.

Also, @Rinco, @Hilda (why not):

Spoiler

Ana's Defensive Team for Anima Seasons:

Anna: Nóatún (special refinement), Reposition, Moonbow, Fury 2, Vantage 3, Spur Res 3, Quickenet Pulse Seal;
Duma: Fell Breath, Swap, Draconic Aura, Def/Res Solo 3, Bold Fighter 3, Upheavel, Res+3 Seal;
Summer Cordelia: Shell Lance+, Harsh Command, Dragon Fang, Sturdy Blow 2, Dull CLose 3, Ward Cavalry, no seal;
Phina: Rapier, Dance, Luna, Spd/Def Form 3, Geyser Dance 2, Hone Spd 3, Gale Dance 2 Seal.
Groom Pent: Vessel of Cheer+ (Spd), Rally Up Atk+, Luna, Darting Blow 3, Dull Ranged 3, Pulse Smoke 3, Brazen Atk/Spd 3 3 Seal;
Ike (+2): Ragnell, Reposition, Aether, Heavy Blade 3, Swordbreaker 3, Threaten Spd 3, no seal.

Fortress Lv 5
Healing Tower Lv 3
Dark Shrine Lv 1
Bolt Tower Lv 4
Catapult Lv 1
Bolt Trap Lv 3 (30 damage)
Gravity Trap Lv 2 (45 HP or lower)
 

 

[Landmaster]

Yo @XRay, ran into you today for my first match~ Wanted to ask to see if you'd gotten hit already today but I was in class~ Sorry if you hadn't been >.<

I didn't realize you'd changed your set-up~ Here I thought your first one was impossible levels of evil~

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Yo @XRay, ran into you today for my first match~ Wanted to ask to see if you'd gotten hit already today but I was in class~ Sorry if you hadn't been >.<

I didn't realize you'd changed your set-up~ Here I thought your first one was impossible levels of evil~

Do not worry about it. I am not playing for score so it does not really matter. I think even with full defense loss, I can still easily make it to Tier 22 as long as I remember to play everyday.

I chose semi cavline since the old map seems too tankable as the offensive player can use my Structures (D) to their advantage and funnel my nukes onto their supertanks.

[Othin]

Forgot to do my Aether Raids run for the day before the maintenance, so there's a chunk of wasted aether.