Aether Raids General Thread

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Rework the entire competitive aspect of it. I honestly don't know how, though. The fact that all maps are worth the same number of points regardless of difficulty makes it really hard to actually make a meaningful, yet fair, scoring system.

I would kill the competitive aspect of it, or at least untangle the real rewards from how well you do to make the competition less stressful. I do not see the point in forcing a competitive element into the game just for the sake of competition.

 

[DehNutCase]

Ahahaha shouldn't have went for the pots on my last map.

 

I have no idea how Horse Ephraim with 27 speed and 55 ATK ORKOd Aversa, but apparently he ORKOd aversa. (60 hp and 25 def should've perfectly safe). The only thing I can think of is that his lance counted bolt tower as an 'enemy' for some reason---I moved everyone else away from Aversa deliberately, since I wanted 1 more round for Cordelia to reach a pot.

Edit: Ah wait, it's greater than or equals, not greater than, that makes a lot more sense. (Should've used Horse Lyn to kite him instead.)

 

That makes it 2 units lost in a single season, feelsbadman.

 

Edit:

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Furthermore, the resources coming only at the end of each season and only in discrete chunks means being 10 rocks short of building something means you're stuck waiting a whole week before you can finally build it while others who either saved resources or have a higher acquisition rate will be able to build up a week (or more if the cost is high) earlier.  There are several points where as soon as you reach specific milestones, you jump way ahead of people who are just barely behind you. For example, if you reach Tier 11 and have 300 rocks lying around, you get an extra defense or offense team slot. If you didn't save up rocks, you're now noticeably behind players who did. Tough luck.

Mind that 'normal' seasons are 7 days long, and we get 20 rocks as a daily reward for 4 of those days. Being 10 rocks short shouldn't affect things too much.

 

 

Being 300 short would, but honestly if you've managed to ignore the 300 + T11 cost for a new unit you probably aren't playing the mode seriously enough to care about waiting a week to gather rocks.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Azuris]

On 12.11.2018 at 5:37 PM, Johann said:

and yeah it looks like 3,680 is her top possible score, but with 10 Aether remaining if she plays perfect

Thanks again, your calculation was spot on. I finished with exactly 10 Aether left and.... 3360 score...

But you couldn't calculate how bad I am.

 

Still it's rank 44 at the moment, which will drop over the day, but I may allow myself to be optimistic that top 3k may hold.

I want the 30 grail reward at least once before defense will be my ruin.

 

8 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Not even a season done (well, technically I am done since I dont have any aether left) and I think I'm gonna hate it as much as Arena, while AA will remain as the "most fun" of the PvP modes

I agree with that, AA is still the most enjoyable of these modes.

And I also have to say my Aether Raids hype died down to an extend. I'm still really happy to get grails and merge ghb and tt units, but the mode itself has problems.

I could now go through everything I dislike about it but after reading IceDragon's post, I'll just say I agree with everything he brought up.

 

5 hours ago, Eilanzer said:

for me they should remove AA from the game...or revamp arena with aa in one new mode less boring (and with the lock mode from aether raid) ( ・∀・)っ♨

No, please don't remove AA. That's the only one of these weekly pvp modes that I completely enjoy.

 

It's such a great mode, the only one that actually let's me use all the units I built or get pity broken by, that are just sitting on the bench otherwise.

The season system causes every week to not be completely the same by changing the pool of units I can use. ( Even though with only 6 combinations, it will repeat.) Their other idea of making seasons different is the bonus unit system, which I dislike. In TT it's fine, in Aether Raids it's somewhat tolerable, but in Arena I absolutely despise it, even more so with the bonus unit kill score.

Also it has a really nice long-term goal. Merging up your units, getting high scoring skills for them, so that one day, you can reap the rewards of the higher tiers. I'm still not there yet, I am somewhere between rank 1100 and 1400, but it stills feels good  to collect my top 3k reward every week.

With no bonus unit the scoring between seasons is more consistent, so once you done your work on your units you can score high every week. No good luck with your bonus Anna against a +10 H Myrrh. I know people get around it, with stuff like G Duel Sorin with watersweep poisonstrike and stuff like that, but for 500 feathers and 1 orb every two weeks, I am not putting up with that.

Also AA is way more forgiving. If one match doesn't look good, you can still turn it around with items and even if you lose a run it's completely free to try again.

5 hours ago, Maaka said:

Managed to make it to 3,700 lift.

Good job. Not a single mistake is really impressive. I wondered if you actually are the Maaka I keep seeing when checking top scores, but that would settle that.

 

3 hours ago, Rhein said:

I hope they rework some of the offense buildings or give us a way to exchange them for another. In one of my accounts, I made the mistake of building the healing (O) building and it's completely useless.

It will most likely be a bonus building, so it isn't a total waste. The Bolt Tower is the first building in the list and the Tactics Room the second, so with the Healing Tower being the third it might come soon.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Azuris

[Fleugana]

@Usana 

I agree with you. I think they need the players being active so that they can have more potential players to remain in the game. After all, many players will only stop by a while for a mobile game. The new content is important to maintain the players' interest.

To be honest, the daily missions are keeping me coming back, and it's convenient to auto-battle without paying attention. They can make Aether Raids as similar as Arena but with stamina limitation. But if they do that, the Amphorae and Fountain might be redesigned or removed, so I doubt they will change the stamina system ever (Sadly for me T T). However, I wish they can change the aspect that "forcing players to play every day." (Also Finn + 10 and F!Robin + 10 will take forever for me. Hopefully, we can have other ways to get grail.)

Edited November 18, 2018 by Fleugana

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Usana said:

Games with something akin to stamina to gate that can be pvp or pve or adventure or rpg or whatever. All have a stamina like feature and in my experience many employ daily rewards of some kind to encourage daily logins.

You are conflating two game features that are complementary, but otherwise really have little to do with each other in terms of what they make players do.

Stamina systems exist to prevent players from getting through content too quickly or to force the player to pay to rush through content. However, once the player runs out of content (or runs out of content they're interested in), the player has no compelling reason to log in until new content arrives. While capping the amount of stamina stored so that it fills up in less than a day can prompt players to log in multiple times per day to use that stamina before it goes to waste, they'll only do so if they actually have things to do in the first place.

Daily login rewards prompt players to continue logging in even if they have nothing else to do in the game and basically serves as a reminder of "hey, this game still exists; don't forget about me." Most notably, the daily login typically also serves as a vehicle to show the player the announcements board (something that Heroes doesn't do, probably because its announcements board is ugly), which reminds the player if there is upcoming content to get excited about. And while they're logged in, they might also remember something that they want to do when seeing their full stamina bar.

 

The reason why both systems moved over from browser games that run on ad revenue to games that aren't is because they both serve to pace the game's content for the player and give the developers time to create new content. Both give the developers a means to stall for time with stamina lengthening the amount of time it takes to complete a player's objective and daily login rewards preventing the player from forgetting about the game too quickly.

Generating ad revenue really only needs the daily login rewards.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[redlight]

So now that our first cycle of Aether Raids is almost at an end we can tell a great deal of what this mode is like... and there's quite a bit to unpack though I'm about to go to sleep in a bit so I'll try to keep it as short as I can. I personally liked how @Vaximillian just said it all in one sentence, which I'll use as means of building text upon on all his keywords

People still use the same old units, as is the case of arena, and encouragement to use different units aside from 1 bonus unit isn't implemented. People stick to Rein, Lyn, Veronica, etc (there are obviously more, but these 3 are the "face" of annoying) because they are overpowered in a environment that doesn't factor in arena scoring. Both on offense and defense maps (where you can choose not to have trenches). I wouldn't say a scoring system similar to arena or a unit banlist (or weapon/skill banlist for something like Dire Thunder, Dazzling Staff, etc ) for Aether Domains are the best solutions, but it's something I'd consider. Also, the banlist wouldn't be permanent, just analysis of current trends, freeing some stuff every season if they won't become a problem again. Maybe you have something better to suggest. But what I can say that is that if something is poorly designed then it shouldn't allowed to be used in a competitive environment, be it in a card game or a mobage in this case. I would just personally like to see a breath of fresh air that isn't just one bonus unit among a team of horse or armor emblem. If there is a problem, the admins should deal with it instead of letting it exist. I appreciate trenches, but they didn't have that much of a blow on ranged horses

The fact that you have a bunch of Aether lying around, but "sorry not enough" is rather silly. I've seen people with 42, but need 43 to even play. Just let scoring take a penalty if you can't afford all of the aether. Also, let us play more. I don't care if replays are limited (make it first five defense battles for all I care), that way I can at least, you know, play a mode that you made for playing, instead of just stretching it out to a week and having at most 3 battles in a later part of it daily. They were supposed to make a mode that'll keep players invested and play the game a bit longer, but just give it to you in drops of water

Maps end up being more annoying than interesting due to player control of it, but that's to be expected in something resembling the My Castle from Fates. There's pressure from turn counts and units not moving towards you. A lot worse than what we get in arena, where all of you have to focus is just staying alive and killing your foes. Here you have to kill the enemies as well as get that juicy aether from smashing fountains. Multiple objectives, even if one is optional, but extremely beneficial, don't work IMO in this mode due to pressure. Let me add in the lack of interesting objectives. Just rout all the enemies. Hmm... You'd think they'd learn their lessons from games that have it for almost, if not, every map. Throw in conquer, defend, kill enemy leader and then escape. They can at least test these objectives out with testers, but effort. Or we the players are lazy and don't tell this. I'd recommend sending feedback for more objectives if that's the case

Well that was "I'll try keeping it as short as I can". What a idiot I am

[Sire]

Welp, I was one match away from reaching over 3200 lift (Tier 9). I ran into a Blade team with two dancers, and they had a Desperation Nino. Guess where my Bolt Tower was located...

Needless to say I was rather salty at losing the match since it was all I needed to advance. I could have probably handled them if not for my Bolt Tower triggering Nino's Desperation.

Nino helped me against armor teams, then turns against me on the one match I needed most. Thanks Nino.

[mampfoid]

I like the new mode, but I'm a little disappointed with my own performance: Only tier 8 (20 lift short of tier 9). 

Died one time with the whole team and lost three times one unit. Didn't get all the extra Aether and my defense team lost countless times. (Would I loose lift each time if I was above 4,000?). 

My defense team is basically my arena defense team. Started with my melee Galeforce offense team, but it was too much of a hassle, so I went with Flier Emblem. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Finished at 3260 Aether, and at about 12k rank. Had some shit runs here and there...

43 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Would I loose lift each time if I was above 4,000?

I think you only lose 80 lift from defense losses in a day, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Raven]

I read you can lose Lift once you're above 4,000 lift, once every 20 hours. It will suck if your first defense in a day is a complete failure, but the rest within the next 20 hours are successful.

Or maybe you are simply protected from losing any more Lift for 20 hours once you do lose some Lift, while successful defenses won't start the 20 hour protection. I think this is the most likely scenario.

[mampfoid]

@Raven @SatsumaFSoysoy Already loosing 80 lift once a day would suck, because that's basically the free run of the day and in that tier a battle costs a fortune. 

Don't get why high tier players are punished and have to wait 24 hours to play only 2-3 times. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, mampfoid said:

@Raven @SatsumaFSoysoy Already loosing 80 lift once a day would suck, because that's basically the free run of the day and in that tier a battle costs a fortune. 

Don't get why high tier players are punished and have to wait 24 hours to play only 2-3 times. 

Yeah, I think it needs tweaking. At least, they should let us upgrade the fountain ASAP so we can recover more Lift.

[mampfoid]

Uh, I didn't know you can check the score of your friends (why can't I battle their teams??). You are the best of my friend list in this mode @Alkaid. Congrats, great score! 

26 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

At least, they should let us upgrade the fountain ASAP so we can recover more Lift.

I didn't upgrade the Amphorae so far. What do I get from it? Greater Aether gain destroying enemy Amphorae/Fontains? 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, mampfoid said:

I didn't upgrade the Amphorae so far. What do I get from it? Greater Aether gain destroying enemy Amphorae/Fontains? 

It just makes your max Lift go to 200. Which is actually good because Lift is fully restored at the start of a new season.

[mampfoid]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

It just makes your max Lift go to 200. Which is actually good because Lift is fully restored at the start of a new season.

Aether? Ok I'll upgrade asap. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, mampfoid said:

Aether? Ok I'll upgrade asap. 

Yes, Aether. My brain is good.

[mampfoid]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Yes, Aether. My brain is good.

Ok, level 3 now. But I'll bite myself if the new season only restores 100 Aether equally to all players. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, mampfoid said:

Ok, level 3 now. But I'll bite myself if the new season only restores 100 Aether equally to all players. 

I'm pretty sure it won't do that, don't worry...

[XRay]

Is there a tier list out for Aether Raids yet?

I am placing my bets on fliers and ponies to be near the top since they can get to Aether buildings quickly and have an easier time avoiding enemy units. I think armor units will be in the middle; they do not have to worry about dying quickly like fliers and ponies, but they run the risk of not being able to get to the pots in a timely manner. Infantry are probably bottom of the barrel I think.

I think Dancers/Singers will be good too, since they really increase your mobility.

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

Is there a tier list out for Aether Raids yet?

Why should it be significantly different from the Arena tier list?

Once the dust settles and a stable meta develops, I figure every map is going to just hide the Aether structures behind all of the defending units, meaning the extra movement range doesn't actually help since you can't walk through them, and the 5v6 structure means combat performance is still of significant importance (and adds even more defending units that get between you and the structures).

[Thane]

It just occurred to me that characters like L!Tiki can become bonus units and this enjoy a hefty stat boost. 

Naga have mercy. 

[XRay]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Why should it be significantly different from the Arena tier list?

Once the dust settles and a stable meta develops, I figure every map is going to just hide the Aether structures behind all of the defending units, meaning the extra movement range doesn't actually help since you can't walk through them, and the 5v6 structure means combat performance is still of significant importance (and adds even more defending units that get between you and the structures).

Combat feels sort of less important since without scoring restrictions, any one with nuking potential can just steamroll the enemy team, especially if you have upgraded your Fortress (O) and got a massive stat boost advantage.

[DehNutCase]

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

Combat feels sort of less important since without scoring restrictions, any one with nuking potential can just steamroll the enemy team, especially if you have upgraded your Fortress (O) and got a massive stat boost advantage.

Combat is basically never important---every unit has enough that 3 units covers the whole cast unless you built badly. (Usually you cover the whole cast with 2, letting you branch out into utility like having dancers & running Galeforce.)

 

My personal ranking for units didn't/won't change at all just because Aether Raids was released---everything that made Reinhardt broken was already on Reinhardt before the mode came out. If people change tiering just because Aether Raids came out it meant they mis-judged units in the first place.

 

Off-topic Edit: 3560 was rank 577, meaning I was going to get max rewards regardless---wish I played better so I'm into tier 10, though, but whatever.

Edited November 18, 2018 by DehNutCase

[mampfoid]

What happens in the new season? Will we start with zero lift? 

[Hilda]

7 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

What happens in the new season? Will we start with zero lift? 

I doubt that

On a sidenote my Arvis is now +6 yaie!

Edited November 18, 2018 by Hilda