Aether Raids General Thread

[Strullemia]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

1. The only way to refill your Aether is to wait for the daily regen from your Aether Fountain. You can increase the amount of Aether regenerated by upgrading the Fountain.
2. If you watch the replay, you can check the level of their offense Fortress and the number of merges on their units, which lets you guess the level of their defense Fortress and the number of merges on their defense team. The opponent also does not have the option of rematching your rematch, which can help reduce the chance that your defense team is challenged.
3. Check your Aether Fountain structure's description.

Gotcha! Thanks for the good explanation. 

 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Seems like quite a few people forgot to swap bonus structures yesterday, including me (on defense, anyway). Got attacked by someone who forgot to change the Manor out, so I bet he was pretty relieved to see I hadn't changed my Manor (otherwise he would have been at a two-level disadvantage). When I did my offense rus late yesterday, I encountered someone who still hadn't changed the Manor out, so I had a three-level advantage. Fjorm was pretty much invincible. Funnily enough, I actually lost a pot there because my units were too good at killing.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

@DehNutCase You use(d?) CC-Vantage Reinhardt, right? Could you give me some advice on what I have to pay attention to?

I'm trying for the general "can't be arsed to waste too much time on this" approach (also something you apparently do), redoing my offense team to make it quicker. Right now I'll either do Eir/ Eir/ Bonus/ Full-buff Seth with refine, Att/Res Link, Def Tactic (seal probably) and Smite/ Bladetome user

OR

Eir/ Eir (both Eirs together with all the Tactic skills combined)/ Leanne (for increased reach of the dance, even if it means the fliers don't get the buffs; but also for flexibility of being swapped out for Aversa/other dancer if needed)/ Bladetome user

Most CC-Vantage Bladetomes should have moderate success at least, but I can't decide on the "best" one. My guesses are lowish HP, High as possible Attack, high speed preferable, and decent bulk, and I only have one Close Counter to fodder off, so I have to be smart about my chosen CC-Vantage unit.

[Opdepov]

4 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Seems like quite a few people forgot to swap bonus structures yesterday, including me (on defense, anyway). 

Dang, totally forgot that! I was wondering why I was struggling so much... 

[DehNutCase]

5 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

@DehNutCase You use(d?) CC-Vantage Reinhardt, right? Could you give me some advice on what I have to pay attention to?

I'm trying for the general "can't be arsed to waste too much time on this" approach (also something you apparently do), redoing my offense team to make it quicker. Right now I'll either do Eir/ Eir/ Bonus/ Full-buff Seth with refine, Att/Res Link, Def Tactic (seal probably) and Smite/ Bladetome user

OR

Eir/ Eir (both Eirs together with all the Tactic skills combined)/ Leanne (for increased reach of the dance, even if it means the fliers don't get the buffs; but also for flexibility of being swapped out for Aversa/other dancer if needed)/ Bladetome user

Most CC-Vantage Bladetomes should have moderate success at least, but I can't decide on the "best" one. My guesses are lowish HP, High as possible Attack, high speed preferable, and decent bulk, and I only have one Close Counter to fodder off, so I have to be smart about my chosen CC-Vantage unit.

Vantage Rein is only relatively simple to use, that is, it needs less effort compared to my Galeforce + 2 Dancer + double ranged horse setup*, but it still needs effort. The reason Rein's good with Vantage CC is because he can pretty consistently snipe one person before starting the EP, and occasionally snipe 2 people before starting EP. This depends a lot on knowing how to position yourself properly, doing combat math, and knowing that just because he has Vantage CC doesn't mean he can't just pretend to be a regular player phase Reinhardt if the map demands it.

*Which can take 30 minutes a map to solve.

That is, I'm using Rein for his 3 move primarily, and his optimized stat spread secondarily. His stats are not good enough to just brute force the kind of maps I tend to run into---most maps tend to have 2-3 units that can OHKO him when it's not light season, meaning I need to make use of my team's obscene mobility to get him to step on shock traps to get into Vantage range, while also sniping the Hardy Bearing Ophelia while I'm at it.

 

If you really want 'can't be arsed' setups a good armor emblem team + a good Null C-Disrupt team should be ideal. Armor emblem smacks the people trying to stack a bunch of mages (use Fae or something with high Res and just brute force all the useless mages to death), and Null C-Disrupt kills people trying to use firesweeps. Basically just stack as much stats on your main armor/main Null C-Disrupt user and just kill everything.

 

Regarding -blade tome users for Vantage, speed is actually useless. If you have enough speed to leverage using doubles for your first combat to get into Vantage range then you don't have enough Atk to survive the enemy phase using just Vantage. Since you need 2 hits to kill people.

Stat priority is just Atk and Bulk. With the odd case where if you have exactly 40 hp you might want to stay there so level 1 shock traps and level 1 bolt towers can put you into Vantage range. But that's not a priority since most +10 units will have more than 40 hp thanks to flower stats & bane being removed.

 

Problems are mostly Hardy Bearing users (primarily Ophelia and Festival Micaiah) and people who run some variant of Dull Ranged. Everything else can be covered by leveraging the fact that -hp on the enemy team is the same as +Atk for your -blade tomer, meaning Pain and Savage Blow are obscene.

My team for CC Rein at the moment is 2 dancers (Legendary Azura + 1), CC Rein, Savage Blow Pain Staffer, bonus unit. This team plays more like a regular player phase team that happens to have CC Rein than a enemy phase team, which fits more with my playstyle, but more defensive styles should be possible.

Like it should be possible to just run a high Res, high Atk -blade CC user that just face-tanks Ophelia with a shitton of Res and using defensive positioning to ignore the need for a ton of mobility. Edit: Loki would help here, letting the team control enemy phase combats better.

Edited February 13, 2019 by DehNutCase

[MonkeyCheez3K]

56 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Snip

Should have known it wouldn't be that easy. I wish I had a Null C-Disrupt, or a Loki, alas i never got them when pulling for them. I need to think thoroughly about my approach... thanks for the input. I especially see the issue with my assumption on speed.

[Johann]

2 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Should have known it wouldn't be that easy. I wish I had a Null C-Disrupt, or a Loki, alas i never got them when pulling for them. I need to think thoroughly about my approach... thanks for the input. I especially see the issue with my assumption on speed.

I have neither Null C-Disrupt nor Loki and I do fine, the real trick to building a strong offense team is having a variety of good options:

• Super Bulky DC Unit: Notable examples being Fjorm, Ike, Hrid, Legendary Robin, and pretty much any unit that you're willing to invest in that can perform similarly. Relying on their bulk, these units can be buffed and sent to take on everything. Armored units are not usually good for this due to their poor mobility-- ideally, this unit can kill the most immediate threat and tank everything else, though there are situations where armors can safely bait stuff closer to the starting point. Atk Smoke for C is amazing, and if the B slot is open, skills like Null Ranged 2 are good. This unit should also probably have Distant Def 3 seal unless you can't spare it or they need something else like QR.
• DC Vantage Person: I used Camus for this when he was a bonus unit, but generally any unit who has the Atk to kill anything that comes at them. This is a very strong counter to many frail units, but keep in mind that many players have wised up to this and put Hardy Bearing on units like Ophelia. I haven't used a unit like this since Camus' bonus week though.
• Aversa's Night: I don't care for Aversa, but I long ago accepted that her tome is vital against many enemy setups (especially when I'm using Hrid). It's astounding how often it works, with many players using overall low HP units. Make sure her A and seal slots are giving her extra HP, and she really should have a Light Blessing. B and C slot are optional, I just give her Axebreaker in case there's a Surtr or Hector.
• Dancers: Always have at least one dancer on every team. One of your teams may do well to have 2 dancers if possible. Wings of Mercy is essential, and flying dancers will probably want either Flier Formation or Aerobatics.
• Effective Weapons: If you're not bringing a Surtr counter of some kind, you're asking for trouble. I have Frederick and Ursula on a team since they perfectly cover each other's weaknesses, while also being able to wipe out most armored and cavalry units. Micaiah (either version) is exceptional as well, though I don't have either. Given the addition of Duma, having a dragon killer on hand is a decent idea, though most armor killers are probably ok too.
• Poison Strike/Savage Blow/Pain: You don't need all of these, but it helps against many maps to have at least one person with one of those skills/seals. I have my two Eirs with Savage and Poison just in case I go up against someone too bulky.
• Staves: I only really have one good staff user (Clarine) who is far too weak to do anything aside from debuff, so I can't say much about a strategy here aside from bringing units like Loki or Veronica. That said, the best two staff choices are probably Pain+ and Gravity+, but due to all the enemy dancers, both can be a liability or little help against some enemy setups. Other issue with healers is their lack of positioning skills, which are extremely valuable in making some strategies work.

Most of all, it's important to understand how the AI works, at the very least being what factors determine if an enemy will attack or use an assist skill instead.

[DehNutCase]

52 minutes ago, Johann said:

I have neither Null C-Disrupt nor Loki and I do fine, the real trick to building a strong offense team is having a variety of good options:

Having good options takes effort, is the main thing.

 

It's not that I don't know I can breeze through this season if I just swapped Corrin to supporting Fjorm & giving my Summoner support over to her as well, it's that I don't care to spend the 30 min - 1 hour doing that. I usually don't even change bother changing skill sets for different modes on my units. (Which is actually the biggest reason I'm using CC Rein in GHB maps recently---the set isn't actually good enough to bring to most Abyssal GHBs, but my AR teams prefer that build so I just leave it like that.)

[Johann]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Having good options takes effort, is the main thing.

There's a pretty stark difference between "here are some strategic ideas most players can use with some available resources" and "here are two extremely specific new skills/units that might not even solve the problems you're having"

[XRay]

11 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

I'm trying for the general "can't be arsed to waste too much time on this" approach (also something you apparently do), redoing my offense team to make it quicker. Right now I'll either do Eir/ Eir/ Bonus/ Full-buff Seth with refine, Att/Res Link, Def Tactic (seal probably) and Smite/ Bladetome user

If you have spare Distant Counter fodder, Sharena is pretty good at carrying the team when she is a bonus unit. I am waiting for Sharena to return as a bonus unit so I can climb to Tier 21. She runs Distant Counter and is Ally Supported by 2 M!Corrins and have 2 Eirs in the back for healing and scoring. She can nullify buffs with her Fensalir and it is very helpful with so many VS!Azuras flying around. With 12/12/12/12 from 2 M!Corrins with Drives, she is very bulky.

Edited February 14, 2019 by XRay

[DehNutCase]

19 minutes ago, Johann said:

There's a pretty stark difference between "here are some strategic ideas most players can use with some available resources" and "here are two extremely specific new skills/units that might not even solve the problems you're having"

As far as I'm aware, his problem isn't that he can't win, it's that he can't win easily, that is, with a minimum of effort.

 

Mind, I could be colored by my own impression, but I believe he specifically mentioned "can't be arsed to waste too much time on this" as a style.

Learning AI movement & having multiple different lineups & changing teams based on bonus unit lineup + seasonal variation (unless you're using F!Grima outside of Earth Season, or Fjorm outside Water season) runs directly counter to that. And that's ignoring the time he'd need to learn AI movement + apply it.

 

To win with a minimum of effort you have to run teams that either play the same way every time (armors + Null C-Disrupt do this, because they just send the one guy out and kill everything as long as you have the placement down pat), or teams that remove enough options from the enemy team that what threats remain are trivial (Loki & CC -blade are variants of this, when certain conditions are fulfilled the teams they're on just win.)

 

I'm not saying your options don't work, mind, I'm saying they need effort to work. Most notably because most of your options are what I consider 'checks' rather than 'counters,' a counter will ruin a particular lineup every single time---like Null C-Disrupt vs. Firesweepers---but a check can be fought through---like -blade with rally + dancers vs. Aversa, or Hardy Bearing vs. CC -blade. Because of that you need to spend more team slots than my cookie cutter suggestions, which creates both more teambuilding complexity (since you'd need to juggle multiple teams) and more piloting complexity, since you'd need to determine which team to run---which, depending on piloting difficulty, might need you to play out the map for every team.

[DehNutCase]

Double posting since the forums won't let me edit.

 

Mind, I suggested against CC -blade, because it's basically cheese unless you pilot it 'properly,' which takes a ton of effort. Cheese lineups auto-win vs. certain lineups, but they cost team slots (which automatically cause complexity issues).

Cheese teams are more like 'flavor' than anything else. The laziest AR setup should be 5 4 unit teams that just drag a bonus unit around. 1 should be the 'main' team (which would be Null C-Disrupt or some kind of stat stacking build---which should be easiest with armors since they have the highest stats, but anything with a bunch of stats + easy access to buffs would work), and the other 4 would be cheese teams that just auto-win versus certain lineups.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

4 hours ago, Johann said:

Snip

Well, a lot of these are just.. unuseable for me. What I need is an approach where the two Eirs I'm forced to use actually help since they already waste two slots. Right now, I use Myrrh for the Bulky DC approach, two Eirs with Ward/Fortify Fliers/Drives, Aversa or Bride Ninian and garbage bonus. I just don't have a whole lot of options left. I can't save and apply different builds on units when attacking, so the Eirs are locked to Myrrh support (Bulky flier support rather). All I need is to reach 21, after that I'll create new offense teams that have a single purpose, keeping me in T21. Only then will I be able to apply effective teams and finally get rid of the trashy Light blessing on my Myrrh that I want back on my Earth team. But right now, just put dragon effectiveness or obnoxious Firesweepers + dancers and I'm screwed if the enemy isn't garbage at map building.

This mode is the worst, forces me to play almost every day (The last changes barely did anything if I still need to play 5/7 days), presents the worst aspects of the game (fuck dancers, blessings, etc), and I just want to check out of it. Maybe I'll just stick to T20 for a while, before I waste CC on a unit that might not help me out, and thus will make me feel even more miserable.

I will, however, give my Myrrh Att Smoke or something since she has no useful C-skill equipped for AR right now. I might manage at least that skill swap everytime.

With all that said, thanks for the input. It's not like you didn't give sound advice, but I couldn't add a whole lot of it to my team, I'm already forced three out of five slots.

EDIT since I missed some responses:

What DehNutCase added is basically it, I really don't want to put the effort in. I've seen people like Akariss on Twitch, waste hours on this stupid mode to think out everything and what not, and I just cannot do it with something I hate. I admit, however, that I do not belong at the top because of it. I shouldn't be the laziest sucker and be rewarded with the best, but I feel T21 needs to happen once, in the hopes of just staying there without any effort, especially now with the stupid dragonflowers... (it was already bad enough with grails)

@XRay I really like your approach, sounds like great fun actually, but investing DC (no spares, can't sacc ny L!Hector, maybe there will be some DC on the voting banner, I'd consider it then), building more M!Corrins, swapping out supports, limiting Sharena's use to ~1/4 of all seasons, etc. already seems impractical to my lazy/annoyed approach. It really does look like fun with her weapon, though.

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by MonkeyCheez3K

[XRay]

43 minutes ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

I really like your approach, sounds like great fun actually, but investing DC (no spares, can't sacc ny L!Hector, maybe there will be some DC on the voting banner, I'd consider it then), building more M!Corrins, swapping out supports, limiting Sharena's use to ~1/4 of all seasons, etc. already seems impractical to my lazy/annoyed approach. It really does look like fun with her weapon, though.

I got the idea from @DehNutCase when FV!F!Robin was a bonus unit. The set up is not exactly cheap with 400 Dew, requiring an extra Eir, and Distant Counter if the team carrier does not have it, but it is relatively affordable and brain dead easy to use compared to other team setups. After her season as a bonus unit, I tried to find a substitute and Sharena was a bonus unit at the time and I figured her nullification is pretty handy, mostly for tackling Reinhardt and Blade mages. Then VS!Azura started to show up more and more frequently and Sharena's buff nullification became very useful.

Ophelia is still a problem though. Surtr is a bit more manageable after I gave my M!Corrins Axebreakers, but he can still be a pain in the ass since he is just so bulky.

[Syllabear]

Today my Cecilia survived with a sliver of health remaining tanking instant aoe Ophelia, Lyn and Veronica and she killed the two on retaliation. Pretty satisfying.

That aside, is Fjorm is on permanent rotation in AR? Think I want to invest on her. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Syllabear

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I believe Fjorm gets her usual turn in the Askr slot. Even if she wasn't, they seem to be pushing legendaries fairly aggressively with the AR rotation, so she'd invariably be back.

8 hours ago, XRay said:

Ophelia is still a problem though. Surtr is a bit more manageable after I gave my M!Corrins Axebreakers, but he can still be a pain in the ass since he is just so bulky.

Are yours running TA? It's what I've got on mine and sometimes he can one-round Surtrs that run DC. A little bit of chip lets him get through Steady Stance, too.

Finally decided to pull the trigger on my Odin and make him +10. Even though L!Azura is an even better support in a vacuum, she won't always be viable for score during Light season. He's also got better personal combat than her, so he can bait more aggressively (or even PP, since his Spd is more than respectable and the blade tome actually puts his Atk into usable range for that). Probably merging M!Corrin next, though I'm short on copies and not entirely sure I want to take him to +10, anyway. Was also considering building original Marth to run as a secondary support for teams where I might want another red over Odin, but the idea of two M!Corrins has me reconsidering.

[Chrom-ulent]

Can I just vent? I'm sick of F2Ps wiping me and then me failing to beat their teams. I can tell they're F2Ps, the only merged units are non-5-exclusives. I may end up falling out of T19 from the defense losses and failing to get offense wins. And then T18 is even worse because without the sixth member, full defense losses are guaranteed.

I think the first problem is that I'm trying to use off-the-beaten-path units on my defense team. I think I'll resort to a cancer competitive team. I don't have time to piece together a defense map, I'll just take screenshots and steal maps I lose to.

...now that I've calmed down a little, I'll make it a creative cancer team. I gave Valentine's Roy a Brave Bow+, now he's basically Reinhardt with a bow. L'Arachel with Blarblade+ takes Brave Lyn's place.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Chrom-ulent

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Are yours running TA? It's what I've got on mine and sometimes he can one-round Surtrs that run DC. A little bit of chip lets him get through Steady Stance, too.

Both are running Death Blow. I will try out Triangle Adept though.

I was hesitant using Triangle Adept since my M!Corrins can occasionally survive a blur hit, but I guess if they get hit at all by blue units, that means Sharena has already fallen so my chances of winning would be slim anyways.

[a bear]

12 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Well, a lot of these are just.. unuseable for me. What I need is an approach where the two Eirs I'm forced to use actually help since they already waste two slots.

This is probably unthinkable to a lot of people: what if you set a team or two with one Eir and 4 blessed? Dropping an Eir is scoring-wise equivalent to one death, but you might find that to be a better trade-off to using twosies against some teams.

The only other solution to two Eirs I can think of is to radically transform one of them. Give em some sort of seasonal effectiveness dagger, have one as a Res tank and one as an attacker, that sort of thing.

[Baldrick]

6 hours ago, Chrom-ulent said:

I think the first problem is that I'm trying to use off-the-beaten-path units on my defense team. I think I'll resort to a cancer competitive team. I don't have time to piece together a defense map, I'll just take screenshots and steal maps I lose to.

Your offence team/structures is the first thing I would look at, you can get up to a guaranteed 15 matches a week, whereas only 7 defence matches at the most will count. And even if you make a competitive defence team, you may still lose lift anyway.

[Chrom-ulent]

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

Your offence team/structures is the first thing I would look at, you can get up to a guaranteed 15 matches a week, whereas only 7 defence matches at the most will count. And even if you make a competitive defence team, you may still lose lift anyway.

I really shouldn't have upgraded the defense to 4 before upgrading the offense to 3, should I? I may have gotten complacent with my +10s.

[Tarilaan]

I've been seeing a lot of posts about people having to resort to cancer teams to get any defense wins. So can I just take this moment to say how proud I am of the Hoshidan family for holding the wall so well for me?

Spoiler

 

I've probably managed something like a 90% win rate with this defense team since setting it up. It's great and I love them all for it!

[DehNutCase]

With the nerfs to Spring Breeze + that Volcano map CC -blade has been getting more consistent & easier to use, which is nice. More open maps = tons easier to smack someone with a pain staff while also sniping problem units on player phase.

 

Too bad 'easier to use' still means I have to stare at a map for 5-10 minutes to clear without deaths. (& CC -blade is kind of hilariously unforgiving if you fuck up*, since I only run the one -blade tomer. If Reinhardt dies it's basically game over.) The consistency thing is nice, though, main reason I'm not using CC -blade for everything is just the time thing rather than a 'this map hard-counters CC Vantage' thing. Even Dull effects can be brute forced if I get enough Savage Blow stacks.

*Which is a common theme about teams I pilot...

 

Hopefully the next offensive mythic has either +Def or +Res so I can run another Null C-Disrupt set and just potato through AR forever.

[Javi Blizz]

@Chrom-ulent, have you any problem with F2P? Because I can be completely wrong, but what I get from your latests posts is that you think that throwing money to the game makes you a better/more skillfull player :/

Also, interesting to know that by your definition I’m no longer a F2P :O 

Didn’t know that having a 5*+10 Brave Ike without spending a cent had taken me out of my F2P status.

Also, you can set up whatever you want for defense, cancer or not. I have been ~300 points short of reaching T21 twice getting -80 lift from defenses everyday, so imagine a more skillfull player (which is not very difficult, since I make to many mistakes), they would be able to reach T21 easily with those -80 daily lift.

[Chrom-ulent]

1 hour ago, Javi Blizz said:

@Chrom-ulent, have you any problem with F2P? Because I can be completely wrong, but what I get from your latests posts is that you think that throwing money to the game makes you a better/more skillfull player :/

Sorry. It's just the pain of being a whale getting eaten by sharks - spending so much to lose.

Feeling a little better today. My Not Reinhardt, Not Brave Lyn, and Not Veronica saved me from a total loss, and I won the rematch so I'm not going to fall out of T19. I'll save the tears for if I fall.