World of Light Discussion/Hype Check

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Okay, so this new mode caught a lot of us off guard. It's nice to see a major single player mode to set this game apart from the previous Smash Bros. game, and I feel like it's a fun idea to justify the inclusion of Spirits, which also serve as this game's version of collectible Stickers from Brawl or custom equipment in 4. The Skill Tree is also a neat surprise. It appears the Skill Tree corresponds to all characters at once, rather than any individual character. However, it is massive, and will probably take quite a lot of play time to complete. I'm also anticipating we'll unlock a Boss Rush mode after completion of World of Light, as all of the bosses appear to be featured in the mode itself - even if we now know they can be encountered in Classic mode campaigns as well.

What details have you noticed about the mode? What do you hope to see or experience in it? Did Smash Ultimate become any more ultimate when this mode was revealed?

Edited November 20, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Tootsie]

honestly I just don't want the game to take more than 20 hours to unlock every character lol, I'm a T.O. for my local Smash club and I wanna have a setup lol. But yeah it's neat that the Mii Fighters are unlockable! I wonder if we can stack them like in Sm4sh or like Echo Fighters. Because it really bugged me how the roster wasn't a perfect square last time.

[Jotari]

I'm on the hype train. Event matches have always been some of my favorite aspects of Smash, so a shit tonne of them really appeals to me. Sub Space Emissary was cool and all, but I don't think turning a fighting game into a platformer without changing any of the mechanics really worked for it.

[Ertrick36]

I'm honestly just glad I have something more to do than just Classic mode and all the other little challenge modes.

I have barely seen anything about this, btw.  I try to keep from looking up information about upcoming games unless I have severe doubt and am also a fan (e.g. Soul Calibur VI).  But hearing about a mode akin to a story mode made me quite pleased.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Sub Space Emissary was cool and all, but I don't think turning a fighting game into a platformer without changing any of the mechanics really worked for it.

I don't know, I thought it was fine.  I mean, apart from the annoying pratfall mechanic that'd frequently rear its ugly head in that game (I still have no idea how that was supposed to improve the game in any capacity).  Quite a bit of Smash involves good platforming so that you don't get KO'd.

Then again, I don't really see Smash as a true "fighting game".  It's not like turning Street Fighter or Tekken into a platformer, you have a lot more freedom of movement, air time, and camera space to maneuver around/see where you're going.  And as I said before, good platforming is, like, half of Smash.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Ertrick36

[TheGoodHoms]

9 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Did Smash Ultimate become any more ultimate when this mode was revealed?

Heck yeah it did! While still a great game, Smash 4 always felt a little incomplete without an adventure mode to me at least. Now that adventure mode is back, Smash Ultimate truly feels like a love letter to all fans of the series.

2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Then again, I don't really see Smash as a true "fighting game".  It's not like turning Street Fighter or Tekken into a platformer, you have a lot more freedom of movement, air time, and camera space to maneuver around/see where you're going.  And as I said before, good platforming is, like, half of Smash.

Let me introduce you to Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero, Avalanche Software's premiere fighting game platformer. Yeah it's garbage.

Edited November 20, 2018 by TheGoodHoms

[Ertrick36]

2 minutes ago, TheGoodHoms said:

Let me introduce you to Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero, Avalanche Software's premiere fighting game platformer. Yeah it's garbage.

Oh yeah, I should've just mentioned that game, I know it.  I mean, it's almost more of a beat-em-up than anything, but I definitely remember it having some stupid platforming and that the controls were all based off of the main Mortal Kombat games.

Why anyone thought the Mortal Kombat engine would work great for platforming, I have no idea.  When you even have trouble just jumping on a little ledge without just straight up vaulting over it and into a chasm, you know it's not a good platformer.  Or how about the inability to accurately control Sub-Zero's speed?  Come on, Super Mario Bros. 1 came out more than ten years before that game, and you had better control over Mario than you had over Sub-Zero in Mythologies.  When you play enough poorly designed bootleg/fan-designed platformers, you start to realize just how well-designed and fluid the Mario games actually are.

[Dragoncat]

Kirby go for the parents ASAP, they've got mouths to feed! Shulk for one is feeling really guilty right now...poor boy. Once he's free everyone's going to be giving him crap for months. He'll have to snuggle with his wife and kids and eat cold pizza as comfort food.

World of Light looks great, even if I was like wtf, a few more than Kirby could probably survive that.

[PeaceRibbon]

Marth's Route is currently winning in the poll. Thank goodness I'm still on the correct timeline!

Edited November 20, 2018 by PeaceRibbon

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm cautiously exited for Spirits modes but I'm also keeping my expectations low. I have a feeling most bosses will be imported from Subspace and that there won't be as many cutscenes as I'm hoping for. And that's fine as long as I know that in advance rather than have it be an unpleasant surprise. 

It certainly is mostly event matches from a gameplay perspective but that's not a ''meh'' for me. I always really liked event matches and from what I heard they seem to be really clever with it this time. 

Which route I pick depends on a single thing and that's which one leads to my favorites. If one of them leads to Pit, Bowser or Ganon then I'll take that route. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, PeaceRibbon said:

Marth's Route is currently winning in the poll. Thank goodness I'm still on the correct timeline!

I suppose I shouldn't act surprised given this is a fire emblem forum. I wish I knew what the second character just beyond Marth was, but the only footage I've seen of that route being taken had the player going in every other direction. It should be noted that the routes continue to be non linear after making this choice, but that fork in the road is the only thing I've seen where one choice locks out the immediate content of another choice, forcing you to find a way around if you want those other characters.

I'm also kind of just surprised the first characters immediately available aren't the original 12. You start with Kirby, pick up Mario, then begin adding to your roster.

1 hour ago, Dragoncat said:

World of Light looks great, even if I was like wtf, a few more than Kirby could probably survive that.

do do do do do ~ oh don't mind me, I'm just being vindicated for acknowledging the actual strongest character in the series.

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

 Come on, Super Mario Bros. 1 came out more than ten years before that game, and you had better control over Mario than you had over Sub-Zero in Mythologies.  When you play enough poorly designed bootleg/fan-designed platformers, you start to realize just how well-designed and fluid the Mario games actually are.

You know what Mario 1 has over Smash? The momentum of your running speed gets carried into your jump's air speed, letting you go farther than a walking jump. What a basic platforming concept. Can't find that in Smash. Melee was the only entry in the series to have that, but then it was removed in Brawl. Probably as one of many changes to make SSE platforming easier, such as the much slower fall speeds, ledge snapping, and a more zoomed out camera in general. I wish they put it back in.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I'm honestly just glad I have something more to do than just Classic mode and all the other little challenge modes.

I have barely seen anything about this, btw.  I try to keep from looking up information about upcoming games unless I have severe doubt and am also a fan (e.g. Soul Calibur VI).  But hearing about a mode akin to a story mode made me quite pleased.

I don't know, I thought it was fine.  I mean, apart from the annoying pratfall mechanic that'd frequently rear its ugly head in that game (I still have no idea how that was supposed to improve the game in any capacity).  Quite a bit of Smash involves good platforming so that you don't get KO'd.

Then again, I don't really see Smash as a true "fighting game".  It's not like turning Street Fighter or Tekken into a platformer, you have a lot more freedom of movement, air time, and camera space to maneuver around/see where you're going.  And as I said before, good platforming is, like, half of Smash.

"Fine" is a good description. It's not terrible, but it's not terribly great either.

[Armagon]

I'll probably just look up the path that gets me Shulk and just take that route.

But yeah, i'm pretty hyped for World of Light. My only problem with it is that it seems to be doing the thing that SSE did by having completely original levels instead of having them based of the various games represented like Melee's Adventure Mode did.

Also, here's a cool detail

 

[Tybrosion]

I’m taking Marth’s path because he’s easily the character I’m the best with / like to play as the most out of those three choices. With any luck, maybe Lucina isn’t too far down that path too.

As far WoL is as a whole, I am genuinely interested in finding out just how much there is to it. Regardless, I see myself enjoying it a lot.

[Arcphoenix]

I'm one of the minority that actually liked SSE I suppose. Despite the gameplay being different, I honestly did enjoy it as its own game-within-a-game. I suppose in hindsight that its level design wasn't always the best, but I did love it for its charm, the gameplay style of itself, and how it brought all the fighters together to work towards some common objective. I feel it might have been better as a separate project with more attention and care, though that is unlikely to happen and besides the point.

Is World of Light a replacement? Sort of. At the surface, it's really not too different from classic mode. It does have the same charm as SSE with the characters working together towards a common objective. The spirits and "event match" styles of battles keep things from being too repetitive and keep things interesting. 

Honestly, I'm going to miss SSE's adventure-platforming gameplay, though I suppose World of Light better appeals to the playerbase at large and that's what matters.

While I won't say I feel that one is better than the other or that either could conceivably be considered alternatives to eachother, World of Light esssentially cancels out any feelings of missing SSE for myself.

On one specific note: Spirits. I'm really looking forward to this aspect. Honestly, I didn't really pay much attention to Brawl's stickers and they never really felt that significant to SSE. (I only really felt they were nice for giving more representation than the trophies provided). Choice of spirits, on the other hand, seem much more crucial in determining winning vs losing. They are also equipped in a much more organized and consistent way than Brawl's stickers were.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

But yeah, i'm pretty hyped for World of Light. My only problem with it is that it seems to be doing the thing that SSE did by having completely original levels instead of having them based of the various games represented like Melee's Adventure Mode did.

I'm not so sure about that. Don't we have a town from Pokemon X and Y be part of the world map and Falco being recruited in space? Another part of the map shown in the trailer looked pretty close to Boswers castle too. 

[TheGoodHoms]

1 hour ago, Arcphoenix said:

On one specific note: Spirits. I'm really looking forward to this aspect. Honestly, I didn't really pay much attention to Brawl's stickers and they never really felt that significant to SSE. (I only really felt they were nice for giving more representation than the trophies provided). Choice of spirits, on the other hand, seem much more crucial in determining winning vs losing. They are also equipped in a much more organized and consistent way than Brawl's stickers were.

Back when I played Brawl I practically never went to the sticker book solely because they felt like such an after though despite the fact they added a few more characters that the trophies didn't have. Spirits are a great middle ground between the two and the fact that they'll effect the game play drastically adds a level of experimentation I can't wait to dive into.

Also I love the reference in your profile picture. MUSIIIIIC COME OOOOOON!!!

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not so sure about that. Don't we have a town from Pokemon X and Y be part of the world map and Falco being recruited in space? Another part of the map shown in the trailer looked pretty close to Boswers castle too. 

I don't remember seeing these. I know there was a lava level but i think that was just the overall aesthetic. Like, how SSE had a castle stage with Marth and Ike but it wasn't really an FE based location.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

oh right, suppose I could have linked this in the OP. But if you're interested in the world map locales, Gamexplain shows off many in their analysis. Check that out if you've got 50 minutes to burn. Off the top of my head, locations include:

• A "Nintendo City" featuring many buildings in the shape of classic consoles. With the splatoon stage also there.
• A Mario Kart track 
• A Gourmet Race reference in a kitchen area.
• A place that resembles the Sacred Grounds you fight the Imprisoned in Skyward Sword.
• Planets in space that may resemble various planets from the Star Fox universe, but nothing looks exactly right and those planet designs have changed several times in that series anyway.
• Some mechanical place that resembles Midgar. But nobody really believes it's Midgar because of lack of Squeenix content additions.
• Wuhu Island
• Bowser's Castle looking lava area

And I certainly hope Dracula's Castle is hiding somewhere in the world. 

PS: still hunting for footage of Marth's path to see what his next character is. No luck yet. That fighter is being guarded by a Rabbid Kong spirit however.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Glennstavos

[TheGoodHoms]

6 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

And I certainly hope Dracula's Castle is hiding somewhere in the world.

I'm sure it will be, where else would the Dracula boss fight take place?

Speaking of which I wonder how many bosses more bosses there are aside from the ones we know about? I wouldn't be surprised if there are at lest two or three more bosses they're hiding from us.

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:36 PM, Glennstavos said:

 I wish I knew what the second character just beyond Marth was, but the only footage I've seen of that route being taken had the player going in every other direction

 

Spoiler

It's Olimar.

Anyway, I'm going the Villager route so I can get Captain Falcon early.

Edited November 30, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Dragoncat]

After playing it, it's good and neat, but I kinda miss Subspace style adventuring with generic enemies. Anyone else feel the same?

[Robin126]

The only reason I choose Sheik's route is because I had already unlocked Marth and Villager normal Smash mode. I wanted to see if Sheik would appear on smash mode if I unlocked her in World of Light, and I was right, but nowI'm also forced into learning how to play as Sheik. Because I hate playing as Mario and I don't really enjoy Kirby. So well, I'm regretting my choices, but I'll live. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Robin126

[Anomalocaris]

5 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

After playing it, it's good and neat, but I kinda miss Subspace style adventuring with generic enemies. Anyone else feel the same?

Same.

Ideally, we get a mode where it's World of Light's type of map setup but with at least a few token platforming stages amongst the Spirit, Fighter, and Boss battles. Maybe even some other modes like fighting a gauntlet of enemies, odd minigames, ect.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Anomalocaris said:

Same.

Ideally, we get a mode where it's World of Light's type of map setup but with at least a few token platforming stages amongst the Spirit, Fighter, and Boss battles. Maybe even some other modes like fighting a gauntlet of enemies, odd minigames, ect.

That's not an unreasonable request at all. Even the event mode in Melee included one pure platforming event by using the Mute City adventure mode map (and turning on super speed).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just finished the mode myself. Some thoughts:

Spoiler

Wow that was a longer mode than I anticipated. I know we saw a variety of environments in the trailer. But games these days tend to show or allude to almost all of their content so I wasn't anticipating much more than a five hour campaign. Especially if this was their premier way of unlocking characters which we now know its not. Love the twist with Galeem and Darkhon. The "Helping is actually hurting" trope is especially common in the Kirby series, both before and after Sakurai's departure. While I would have ultimately preferred a SSE/Kirby style game with classic enemies to fight, this mode makes a lot of sense for this particular game's collection of assets. You've got all these characters, stages, and music to create a thousand or so scenarios for spirit battles. Some truly evoking the feeling or character of that spirit. The fights for The Boss and Hinawa are particularly heartbreaking recreations of tear-jerking scenes from their games. To contrast, the SSE sequel would have made the most sense for Smash 4 where they went to the trouble of creating and programming all those enemies that only exist in Smash run and bizarrely nowhere in the Wii U version.

The lack of cutscenes similar to the first one is something I did anticipate though. It's not just the development resources making the cutscenes, but all the time you need to spend in constant contact with the creators and rights holders of these characters if you want them hanging out together in one cutscene.  I've always believed that SSE was solely responsible for one or both of Brawl's major delays and cutscenes were likely a major factor. Overall, this is a meaty, 20 hour campaign that makes use of Spirits in ways we've not seen with stickers and trophies. It sort of harkens back to how you needed to "capture" enemies with trophy stands in SSE, but now collection directly ties into your ability to face these opponents on equal terms. By the end of the campaign I had 95.6% completion and I do intend to go back for the few spirits I left behind.