How would you go about fixing FEH's story and writing?

[Magical Glace]

So, one of the more common complaints about FEH is how sparse the writing is.  Forging Bonds tries to sell characters with writing, but it doesn't do nearly enough.    A few short monologues gushing about the summoner isn't really enough to show the player why they should care about the character.

So, how would you "fix" it?  You can suggest improvements to the specific plots of the first two books, ways to better integrate summoned heroes into the plot, ways to fluff out Zenith's lore, etc.  

Edited November 24, 2018 by Glaceon Mage

[Magical Glace]

So, one of the more common complaints about FEH is how sparse the writing is.  Forging Bonds tries to sell characters with writing, but it doesn't do nearly enough.    A few short monologues gushing about the summoner isn't really enough to show the player why they should care about the character.

So, how would you "fix" it?  You can suggest improvements to the specific plots of the first two books, ways to better integrate summoned heroes into the plot, ways to fluff out Zenith's lore, etc.  

[Etrurian emperor]

For book 1 I'd remove phrases like ''world of blazing'' or any of such nonsense. Names like that really make it clear that its a spin off title who's plot doesn't matter. Veronica doesn't really enslave Marth and the Archeneans after all but just people from ''the world of mystery'' and for some reason even countries from the same game get treated like different worlds altogether as we can see with Hosido and Nohr being the worlds of ''Birthright and conquest''. The writing team seems to have figured that one out in book 2 since they stop using those silly terms in favor of actual locations to ensure there are actual stakes in what's happening. 

I think one cool feature they could add is making little boss conversations if you bring the right people with you. If you face Grima then his dialogue changes if you have Chrom or Lucina in your team or the Nohrians on your team have a special line when deployed in the missions against the Hoshidan royals. It doesn't have to be much but a single line can already go a long way. 

And kill off Surtr a lot sooner. Him randomly surviving his first defeat just ensured that book 2 took months longer just because it refused to end when it reached its logical conclusion. Its not like Surtr did anything interesting between his two boss fights to justify his survival.  

Edited November 24, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Florete]

Remove Alfonse.

[Shiki]

Ahaha. Ahaha. Nice joke.

Heroes really dig their own pitfall with the story. Here are some points where they failed.

1. Glossing over the main series
   Huge waste of potential. Heroes has the advantage of using characters from multiple games (unlike other who have to build up lore) which means it shouldn't have to rely on its OC to tell a compelling tale.
   But what did we get instead? "Chapters", one or two for each game. I wouldn't even call these chapters "barebones" in regards of story-telling, they are a slide show with some iconic characters,  who leave some lines and then get their butt handed down by us.
   Why are fighting? Because Blood pact. A blood pact without any background or explaination. Basically take everything away what might have made the FE10 Blood pact redeemable and toss it out of the window.
   They could have sold the story of being an "interdimensional police" way better by dedicating more time to each world. Have an entire book be about 2 worlds with a common theme (like Birthright + Conquest, Blazing + Binding etc.) and elaborate on "what-if" scenarios or the actual impact from the Emblian invasion. Kinda like how Cipher does for the release of new cards.
   This also would have limited expectations to some degree, reducing disappointment waves like this entire November. The players know what kind of units they can expect during the duration of a book, so they can be hyped or be hopeful that their favorite series gets featured in the next book.
2. Book 2
   I think this speaks for itself and pretty much reinforces what I said about Heroes and its OCs. To be fair some of the earlier chapters had some good moments for Alfonse but outside of that the story is so slow, boring and absolutely non-sensical.
   We chase several chapters after Gunnthra only to find her being barbecued by Sutr? That's fine.
   Sutr turns out to be a filthy casual and has Phoenix mode on? That's the best twist of 2018, nothing wrong with it, right? Right?!
   It really doesn't help that most OCs are one-dimensional or uninteresting. Only Alfonse gets the spotlight among the Askr Trio, with Anna being ridiculed during Paralogues and Sharena seemingly not existing during the entirety of Book II.
3. Tying New Heroes release with story progress
   This is the biggest sin of Heroes. Due to the release of seasonal banners (which is a common part of every gacha game) the story moves slower than a snail. We have entire months where we do not get any progress and by that point how can you possibly care about the story? There is already little that keeps your interest from the little content you get from each chapter, now they pad it out so much that you can't take it seriously. The seasonal Paralogues are way too short to find anything resembling variety in it.

I don't think Book 3 is going to solve any of these problems (or can solve them) unless they somehow salvage their OCs and build some kind of compelling story around them. We are stuck right now in a situation where Askr helped Embla so the conflict between them is in this weird limbo which makes this hard unless they retcon several things (like Bruno or Veronica losing their sanity again) and by that point it's like a reboot.

Edited November 25, 2018 by The Priest

[Dragoncat]

I think it's pretty much unsalvageable at this point...

[redlight]

5 hours ago, Florete said:

Remove Alfonse.

Remove Anna

In all honesty I'd say we'd scrap the Askr/Emblia story and replace it with something like viewing into different events throughout the series. Something a bit like forging bonds, but it's more story and character interactions

It just hit me. Have books be devoted to one game and events take place in their world or at least a projection of it in Zenith. Books would be short. Like around 5 chapters or so

Edited November 24, 2018 by silveraura25

[Granny]

I'd hire a (good) writer. As in, someone who takes pride in their writing.

Seriously, Book 1 was so bad, I skipped it a lot. Book 2 was a little better.

If book 1 must not change too much, the first step would be to make the dialogues more interesting. The characters should not be like "hi, Im a good guy but we must fight!", they could be... cursed or something. And the curse alters their character in a way that makes them unable to fulfill their roles. Chrom became hateful of strangers so that he'd kill any Robin he meets. Corrin became very indecisive. Marth is all about bringing glory to his name alone. Or something.

This setup would make it really easy to write funny dialogue and players who know the main games can easily connect because they understand the significance behind the changed character trait.

It might make people more interested in the real characters, too.

It would fit nicely into an overarching plot of creating chaos.

 

Forging Bonds really should not be between the hero and a mute cardbox.

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Granny
Typo

[Sire]

Copying my impressions of the story from the Book III thread...

On 11/21/2018 at 11:31 AM, Sire said:

I am currently reviewing FEH's story scripts so I can send detailed feedback on the story. Here are some a lot of thoughts I have after the review, which are spoilered to save space.
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  Hide contents

The first half of Book I is rather generic and boring save for the introduction. Most chapters follow the "fight heroes under contract, free them from contract, short story snippet, next chapter" routine. While the introduction itself is still not thrilling and exciting, it is better than most as it lays some lore foundations for FEH.

Now the second half of Book I focuses on the Zacharias/Bruno subplot, which was actually entertaining for its time. This starts picking up during the World of Blazing (Chapter 7) and lasts until the end of Book I. Bruno ends up being the most interesting character of Book I due to the subplot and the curse of the Emblian royalty. We also start to see how amazing Alfonse is since he is the most developed character of the Askr trio (Sharena is friends with everyone while Anna remains gold hungry and is mostly used for event stories). However, some of this development is found in paralogues and xenologues, which can be confusing for newcomers who don't know the release timeline...
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Let us take a short tangent into the paralogues. Funnily enough, I found the paralogues to be more interesting than the main storylines, mostly due to the character interactions. Granted, most of the text is fluff dialogue, but it was entertaining nonetheless. I mean, we got Hector bring Armads to the "Day of Devotion" event (Love Abounds). We have Hector and Ephraim beings bros (Arrival of the Brave).

However, there are some stand-out paralogues. Blazing Shadows delves into Bruno's search for a cure for his curse, references various things in Elibe, and continues the Zacharias/Bruno subplot. Echoes of Mystery supposedly teaches Sharena not to trust everybody, but friendship wins in the end so whatever (I know this storyline originally came from New Mystery, swapping out Kris for Sharena, but it is still something). The Sacred World has Seth lecture Veronica on being a ruler and butt heads a bit with Xander. (If only Seth was as busted in Heroes as he was in Sacred Stones...) Adrift deals with death, dreams, Azura, and may be a lead into Book III.

As for Xenologues, they are probably the most story driven chapters and also represent the height of what FEH has to offer. Detached Princess delves into the mind of Veronica and how she does not understand family, as well as a bit of the Embla curse. The Brink of Chaos introduces Loki (I think) and a storyline reason for why the Tempest Trials exist. A People's Hero is an exception to the rule, having a nonexistent story, but it does grant you a free 5* Vanguard Legend Ike! Finally, the latest Xenologue, Whispers of Death, seeming tease Book III with a new villian: Hel.
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Back to the main story, let us continue to Book II. Again, most of it is fluffy stuff revolving around "Sutr will burn everything! *maniacal laughter,*" but it does have more plot points than Book I.

Some development begins in Chapter 4, Fiery Resolve, where Alfonse (outside of his infamous "Grr") outsmarts his foes by signaling the populace to flee before the town is razed. Veronica, apparently learning a little bit with her encounter with Seth from A Sacred World, butts heads with Sutr on how to rule. Chapter 5, Blood and Snow, actually has Anna do something clever by covering their trail. We also have a good scene with Laevatein and Laegjarn. The best thing about chapter 5 is how there is actual conflict, portrayed here as the Askr army trying to outwit Muspell using tactics. Chapter 6 continues the game of wits, ending with Laegjarn being captured by Askr.

And then Chapter 7 tosses everything into a volcano. Gunnthrá dies (rather pathetically, I might add. It may have helped if she had a CG death instead of just text). I mean seriously, who cares about Gunnthrá outside of her worth as a unit? And then, Laegjarn escapes because why not. Sutr is a boring villain who simply wants to burn everything. If one wants to be one dimensional, at least make it entertaining...

The Rite of Frost (Chapter 8) tries to make Fjorm *cough* relevant *cough*, but the real treat here is Veronica and Xander getting beaten up by Sutr. Veronica is captured and we wonder what will happen next.

Now in Hellfire (Chapter 9), we get introduced to Helbindi and Ylgr. Helbindi acts all tough, but he fights for his sister. Ylgr is Ylgr, and it makes me question if Book II Ylgr is different from the one we can summon. At least it isn't Loki!Ylgr, which everyone saw immediately (Bruno/Zacharias took a little bit more work).

Chapter 10 is a failed attempt to take on Sutr, as he is in Phoenix Mode and can revive. Woo. At least we get more Laevatein and Laegjarn, as well as the first hint of Prince Hrid.

Chapter 11 drops the mention of Zacharias helping out from the shadows, as well as directing the heroes to where the Rite of Flame is performed. We get more Muspell development, learning that Helbindi was saved by Laegjarn. We also get a turnaround where Laegjarm manages to ambush Askr. The chapter ends with the party wondering if they may have a traitor in the ranks.

Chapter 12 goes into some detail of the Rite of Flame, saying sacrifices must be used (currently Veronica and one of Sutr's daughters). Helbindi is released from service after his failure, and learns that his sister has been slain by Sutr. Also, lots of stuff about who the traitor, revealed to be Loki *shock horror,* and after beating her Loki decides to help out the party because why not.

The finale of Chapter 13 has Laegjarm sacrifice herself to save Laevatein from the Rite of Flame. We get to see Helbindi break out Veronica and the real Ylgr. Bruno shows up and saves the day. Then, we fight Sutr and he dies. Fjorm falls for the Summoner. The End.

TLDR BOOK II: All that is awesome in Book II is based around Askr, Embla, and Muspell. Nifl basically has nothing of value (Gunnthrá is pointless and Fjorm is just a figurehead. At least Yglr acts as a support character for Helbindi and Hrid is mostly a blank slate.) The tactical plays between Alfonse and Laegjarm were enjoyable. Laegjarm and Laevatein moments are precious. Helbindi is awesome. Sutr is boring as heck, while Loki just sits in the background and messes with everybody. Veronica, despite her short screen time, had more interesting stuff than Nifl ever did.
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Another tangent, there are storylines in the Tempest Trials. For the sake of time, I'll just say I enjoyed To Die on the Battlefield as well as the callback to an earlier TT by Dorcas and Mia.
* * * * * * * * * *
...So yeah, those are random thoughts that are probably a bunch of nonsense.

Looking back, they did actually keep to their word when they said they'll pay more attention to story for Book II. The only thing going on with the first book is the Bruno/Zacharias arc as well as the curse of Embla (with the curse still ongoing). For the second book, there's Helbindi, the Muspell sisters, and the tactical plays. It's just a shame that Nifl characters and Sutr are so incredibly boring, as well as some poor storytelling (the traitor arc comes to mind).

I can only hope Book III continues to improve on the storytelling. My pie in the sky is to have FEH reach FGO storytelling (especially if we get quality similar to FGO's Camelot chapter), but Fire Emblem never really had super amazing storylines. There are some good ones, but FE always seemed to focus more on the characters themselves instead of the overarching plot.

* * * * * * * * * *

As for how I would actually fix it, I'll need to sit back and think on it. But for some quick thoughts...

1. More text. I found the character interactions in the Prologues to be more interesting than the overall plots of both books. The main reason for this is the amount of text.

2. Flesh out the characters more. At the moment Alfonse has the most development, Sharena is all about friendship, and Anna is a gag character for seasonal events. Anna only shows off her commanding skills once, and that is in Book II where they cover up their tracks when facing Laegjarm.

3. If one wants to kill Gunnthrá, at least give us a reason to care. At the very least, a CG of Gunnthrá dying would be better than just a flash of red on the screen and boring boring boring words.

4. More Fire Emblem references, like in Blazing Shadows. The worlds of the various games have important landmarks and items, make use of them in Heroes!

If I get around to it, I may post more details on how to "fix" the story and writing.

[Arcphoenix]

1. They shouldn't pad things out again just to meet chapter count. Book II was a striking offender of this. So many chapters didn't actually lead to new developments. Killing Surtr in particular dragged out quite some time.
2. Book 2 had way, way, way too many unsatisfying moments and anticlimactic moments. (Gunthra and Helbindi's sisters' deaths come to mind.)
3. I get that as a mobile game, the whole point is that everything is simple. That's fine by me, but I can't help but want a less boring villain than Surtr next time.
4. Maybe some side-media that's free to access which complements the series would be nice? Maybe short videos with pictures and narration giving more details about the world of Zenith and its history
5. Maybe an attempt to reduce redundancy. "Surtr does bad things and burns a different person than last chapter" got pretty old.
6. I want an explanation of the Emblian contracts and an explanation of Muspell's contracts. Well, maybe not the latter as they're no longer relevant anyway

Edited November 24, 2018 by Arcphoenix

[YoungLionofAlistel]

For Book 1, I personally would have shown the effects the Emblians had on the realms that were subjugated. If this is supposed to be a war that spreads across different worlds, at least show the consequences of it.

 

For Book 2, I would have given Surtr a motive for wanting to wage war. Him not having a motive killed Book 2 for me. When I defeated him, I felt no satisfaction whatsoever. I just thought to myself, "Well, that was boring."

[Grandosco]

My thoughts were more lengthy than I thought, so I'll try to put it in spoilers.

To improve it, maybe the story could address (if not focus on) how the various worlds are being affected by portals just being opened up to other places. Maybe the more conquer-savvy antagonists would take advantage of this and subjugate the poorly-defended worlds, or priests trying to spread their religion to other places? Certain worlds like the World of Shadows and the World of Awakening for example, are basically just different time periods, so how would characters from each interact (though we kind of have this with Tiki, though really ONLY with Tiki)?

Speaking of interaction, have more of that. I am actually quite fond of the Forging Bonds support-like structure, though instead of it being the individual characters and just the summoner (who is technically US, the players, and therefore essentially a nobody) have the characters support with one another, like they do in the combined scenes. Make them characters that can have chemistry (Libra/Tharja, Donnel/Mozu, Jill/Lethe, Seth/Frederick, or hey, maybe there could be an April Fool's Day one with 4 different versions of the same character? What on earth would all of the Lyns think running around with three other Lyns? Or better yet, 3 Camillas and one male Corrin for maximum sistership? The hilarity writes itself). Either way, more character interactions would be welcome. The recent Azura/Young Azura Tempest Trial seemed pretty well-written actually, for what it's worth. An older version of Azura reassuring her younger self that staying in dreams is not the way to live, even though reality is extremely painful and misery-inducing at times? That's pretty deep and touching.

But back to the actual main plot, if they kill off a character, make it actually mean something. Gunnthra is cool and all, but we were able to summon her waaaay before her demise, and she got all of zero characterization from her introduction to that point. Laegjarn's sacrifice meant more than that, and she was never on our side throughout the entire story. Helbindi's sacrifice meant more than that, and he's in the same boat. With regards to this, I can understand that killing off characters is difficult due to the nature of the game. I truly believe that they cannot kill off any of the Askr trio since they rotate in and out of Arena for F2P players and they would ignite a volcano of backlash if they did that unless the killed-off character came back to life in the exact same cutscene, so it would be pointless. Meanwhile, if the King and Queen of Askr die, like who cares? We've heard about them sure, but they've never appeared even in just a speaking role. It'd be crazy if IS hired writers who've never heard of the Eight Deadly Words: "I don't care what happens to these people." Make us care! Or at least encourage us to. The King sounds like kind of a jerk and the Queen sounds like she loves cute outfits. That is the extent of what I know of those characters, and that's quite sad.

Furthermore, give Hel a motivation beyond "people gotta die, right?" Given it sounds like she requires help to do whatever it is she's planning, she does sound like there's some semblance of motivation behind her actions. Ashnard was crazy, yes, but his philosophy and the determination to which he was set in it made him memorable to me. Lyon is memorable because of how we learned he always felt inferior and wanted love (or got possessed, which one was it? Probably both? Either way.) Nergal is memorable because of his horrible magic experiments and tragic backstory, among other things. Grima is memorable because HOLY CRAP HAVE YOU SEEN THE SIZE OF THAT DRAGON!? Plus, stuff in Echoes (play it or look it up, it's sweet).

Anyways, much longer than I intended, but that's my two cents. I've never written a novel or anything, though I like to think I'm decent, and I say give the people what they want: Characters we love interacting in meaningful ways with other characters we love.

Hey, it works for Super Smash Bros. and they all beat the crap out of each other constantly.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I mean the big problem is that their is just no reason to care.

The entirety of Book 1 and all the paralogues prior to Book 2 was just fucking about in meaningless conflicts with no stakes in the Worlds of the mainline games so that they have a reason to introduce the latest characters. The only thing close to a story they had going was the sub plot about Bruno and Veronica being cursed which, whilst legitimately interesting, has just been left dangling due to Bruno just having straight up disappeared for the last year or so.

Which would've been fine in all honestly, not everything needs to have a deep and engaging story least of all a mobile spin-off, but when the consequence of going from excuse plot to a legitimate attempt at dramatic storytelling is that they've basically skipped the characters and setting components of a story and just gone straight into plot and conflict. Like, let's break it down; Muspell destroyed Nifl and has now teamed up with Embla to conquer/destroy Askr.

1: Bizzare tonal shift. Going from meaningless excuse plot to attempted genocide doesn't work, especially considering that their was no build up to it.

2. Why do I care about Nifl? Their was no mention of it at all prior to Book 2 and the first thing I learn about it is that it's just been destroyed and we literally don't meet a single character from their until after the fact.

3. Similarly, why do I care about Muspell? Leaving aside it having the same 'we're literally just learning this place' as Nifl, even the stuff we do learn about it is bollocks. At least Embla had the rather thin excuse of trying to gain control of/destroy the Summoning thing, the only reason they have to be literally attempting genocide is 'because Surtr wants to' and the only reason Surtr wants to do so is because their was only two words written on his character sheet snd those words were 'fucking arsehole', so he's gonna do the most one-dimensional, generically evil thing he could do in every situation regardless of whether it makes sense in universe or adds anything to the story.

3. Why do I care about Askr? We've spent literally a year in this country and not only do we know fuck all about it, we've literally only met 3 people from their, one of whom is an Anna and the other says and does literally nothing half the time.

[Sentinel07]

Overall, I think their framework for the story is good. What needs to be done better is development. Some events just go so quickly that nothing really gets to develop. It feels like they're trying way too hard to keep things simple. 

[Icelerate]

Expand on characterization and world building. This would require more lines of dialogue because what we have right now is too bare bones to be considered compelling. 

[NekoKnight]

The biggest thing is to have meaningful developments every chapter. You simply CANNOT have a story that releases 1-2 (usually 1 because of seasonal banners) chapters a month that just faffs about doing nothing. Book II was terrible with this, resetting MONTHS of slow 'development' for uninspired plot twists. To have actually meaningful chapters, they could/should:

>Have more dialogue. So far we've just had a few lines in the first and last map of each chapter. There should be something worth talking about after every map. Let characters discuss what's happening, let them talk to each other and develop their relationships, let them talk about the setting. Fjorm managed to go the entirely of Book II without ever developing a personality because they never bothered to give her meaningful interactions that weren't exposition dumps.
>Actually SHOW us what is happening. Using nothing but portraits (some of which don't even have different expressions) is a very limited form of story telling. I recall the scene in Book II where Loki reveals herself to be incredibly confusing because the game did nothing to differentiate what was a dream and what was actually happening. Showing still images of climatic scenes would be far more effective that the screen flashing red to show someone was killed. And if they wanted to only use existing game resources, they could have animated scenes with the character sprites like they do in Forging Bonds.
>Actually plan out the story events well in advance. Book II's ending was incredibly rushed and that was after several chapters that amounted to filler.

Also, concerning Forging Bonds, let characters talk to each other rather than at our faceless dope of a Summoner. If the story chapters are about telling a story with our OCs, the Forging Bond events can be used to show fun interactions with side characters. I don't know about other players, but I would assume most people would enjoy learning more about the characters rather than another band telling the summoner how wise, charismatic and sexy they are.

[Baldrick]

20 hours ago, Florete said:

Remove Alfonse.

Remove all OCs except Alfonse.

All they do is suck up the limited screen time and banner space. Agree with the Priest that the advantage of Heroes is the established characters. Why do we need Veronica/Loki when Gharnef/Manfroy/Lekain/Validar exist? Why do we need the lava people when Medeus/Zephiel/Duma/Garon exist? Why do we need the snow people when all the lords etc. exist? There's all sorts of potential for interesting inter-game interactions that  goes unused.

[Hilda]

This isnt a triple A title so not sure what people expect. 

1. chapters being bigger

2. chapters focus on OCs and not on the current new banner units. Those allready had their game

3. use forgeing bonds to elaborate on summon banner units

4. progress the chapter meaningfull

5. add chapters everymonth. tie in GHBs into chapter stories if there is a boss battle ahead with high difficulty to amp the adrenalin

6. force people to use the askrtrio on chapters so events can occure on the map!

 

[Florete]

5 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Remove all OCs except Alfonse.

Nah, remove all of them or just Alfonse.

Okay, so my post was half joking, but also half serious. Alfonse is the source of a number of my problems with the story (certainly not all of them, of course). Removing him and simply letting other characters get that screen time would likely improve things a lot.

[Baldrick]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Nah, remove all of them

That’s an acceptable compromise.

Quote

Removing him and simply letting other characters get that screen time would likely improve things a lot.

Not that I think he used it well, but would any OC use it better?

[Thane]

I do find the focus on OC's strange. I understand that they want to sell more characters, I really do, but when the OC's struggle to form even basic personalities and the story ends up being so incredibly lackluster and poorly paced, I don't understand why you would ever be tempted to pull for them specifically outside of liking their art. I play Heroes because I'm a Fire Emblem fan, of the whole series, not because I want some generic anime people in my barracks. I guess they're there for people who have not played any game in the series, maybe? But is this the first impression of Fire Emblem character writing we want them to get?

We had four OC's from what became an allied nation and they all achieved effectively nothing in the plot. I don't remember Anna or Sharena saying or doing anything important, and Laevatein was portrayed as a literal object. It's below even the lowest of standards.

Heroes makes remarkable little use of the fact that it's a crossover game of a series that is almost 30 years old. We should be having fun with odd character interactions and interesting scenarios these characters can find themselves in, not this. Forget Surtr, I think what pissed me off the most in the entire game was when Leif talked about remembering how his kingdom burned when he was a baby...while failing to acknowledge he was fighting for the side that was burning down kingdoms. That shows just what an afterthought the actual Fire Emblem characters are in the Heroes narrative, and I just don't understand why. 

[Rafiel's Aria]

Actual development. (Gonna spoiler since it got long.)
 

Spoiler

 

Tbh, I'm not going to expect a grand adventure from the mobile game spin-off of a series that thrives on tropes. (Don't get me wrong, I find it endearing that FE tends to keep things like the Christmas knights and Camus archetype. Even if the blue-haired lord does get a little old after a while.) But I've played a few games now that have managed to develop their worlds so much better...and those are worlds that are starting from scratch. FEH has the benefit of being able to mooch off of the series. But the writers somehow manage to both drag things out AND blow through the plot all at the same time without taking time for the important stuff. Now that's amazing. 

For the overall story, personally I would take the plot and try to get the characters to form actual relationships with each other DURING the story. Forging Bonds is great for other characters being released, but characters like Alfonse and Sharena hardly ever interact with each other in meaningful ways beyond Alfonse rolling his eyes and Sharena being cute. I want to see them argue or play in the snow or talk about their parents. Same with Anna. Veronica and Xander got more development together than the actual siblings did. Don't get me wrong, villains need better interactions too. As poorly written as I think Loki is, at the very least she interacts with characters a little more than most everyone else who just seems to simply exist in the same story. Are any of those interactions meaningful? Nope. Not at all. I'd rather see short meaningful quips than Loki's random trolling anyday. 

If you're going to have deaths, make those deaths meaningful. Was I hurt by some of the deaths? Yup. Was it because I was super invested in that character? Nope. If anything, I'm hurt by the fact that these characters are gone and no longer have any potential in the story. IS took the characters that they started to give personality to and offed them... In writing, killing someone for drama is BAD. It has to do something for the plot or character development. I suppose you could argue that Gunnthra's death was supposed to be inspiration for Fjorm...but wasn't she already fired up to stop Surtr after he like...destroyed her homeland and murdered her mother? Gunnthra's death was only there to show the audience how evil Surtr is. ...if you couldn't tell already. They could have accomplished the same feat by giving him a novelty t-shirt that says "I BURN STUFF FOR THE LOLS #arsonizkewl" Now if Gunnthra had worked tirelessly to help the heroes and maybe had an arc where she formed a strong relationship with Laevatein because their paths kept crossing, and their interactions made Laevatein question her place in life...and then Gunnthra got captured and her death actually had an impact on Laevatein...that would have been different. (Just a thought. Tbh, both characters might as well be blank slates, so you could probably do anything with them.)

 

I guess that's all I'll write for now. I've toyed around with the idea of re-writing the plot a few times, but if I had to fix one thing, I'd just make interactions more meaningful. And I don't think it would take a lot of effort on anyone's part. Just a little more reading for players.

 

 

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Thane said:

I do find the focus on OC's strange. I understand that they want to sell more characters, I really do, but when the OC's struggle to form even basic personalities and the story ends up being so incredibly lackluster and poorly paced, I don't understand why you would ever be tempted to pull for them specifically outside of liking their art. I play Heroes because I'm a Fire Emblem fan, of the whole series, not because I want some generic anime people in my barracks.

Every character is an OC in their first game. They're only generic anime people because IS doesn't hire (decent) writers. I don't think the writing quality would improve just because they decided to feature characters from the mainline games. On the contrary, it's easier to write a new cast of characters doing their own thing than it would be to effectively utilize a cast of characters from multiple games.

I do think there is a wealth of untapped potential for cross game interaction but I think it would be better in a different mode, like Forging Bonds. There have been little flashes of brilliance like Hector in the LA paralogue or Hector in the Tempest Trial story (just use Hector, writers). But I'd trust them more to have smaller unconnected episodes to explore these interactions.

[Baldrick]

53 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Every character is an OC in their first game. They're only generic anime people because IS doesn't hire (decent) writers. I don't think the writing quality would improve just because they decided to feature characters from the mainline games.

The characters from the mainline games have established personalities and motivations, so some people already care for them. It doesn't mean the writers don't have to put in effort, but they have one less job to do.

In other words, they are cruise control for good writing, but you still have to steer.

 

53 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

On the contrary, it's easier to write a new cast of characters doing their own thing than it would be to effectively utilize a cast of characters from multiple games.

That's what I'd expect/hope Three Houses will do. Heroes was advertised as a crossover game, so that's what I want from it.

[Specta]

I feel the recognizability of characters isn't really cruise control for good writing - the benefit it brings you in the grand scheme of things is the already established fan following, which isn't so much a writing element. looking at fanfiction (literally zero hate, but it's a good example,) you can see how having the characters pre-established isn't really assistance in that aspect if not just because you then have to work to maintain consistent characterization of an already well-known, developed character

I feel like a lot of the Heroes-original characters are on par with FE14 writing at worst

Edited November 26, 2018 by Specta