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Roland

I hope that Awakening and Fates won't influence Three Houses too much

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Despite every game obviously sharing similarities every single one is unique that has something the other hasn't.

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I have become a fates apologist as of late, and I would like to say that conquest, birthright, and even rev have some of my favorite gameplay in the series. (I feel the need to mention that I have been playing the series since the release of FE7, and now have completed every game in the franchise) To say that these games didn’t work on a mechanical level is objectively wrong.

Sure the story was poorly written (though beet for beet it is not a terrible story line, it just needed some help with writing conventions and world building) but replay value and gameplay are at an all time high in my opinion. The reason players think it is bad is because people misconstrue fates’ poor storytelling as a bad gameplay feature. 

For instance, players see children characters as a bad addition to Fates, often citing narrative reasons for why kids should not be in the game. That does not mean it is a poor gameplay element. I would offer the opinion that children characters add depth and replay ability. 

I hope three houses borrows a lot of elements from games across the entire series, including fates and awakening. But whatever happens with it, I am sure it will be a good to great game.

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Birthright's plot isn't even atrocious by Fire Emblem standards. Conquest and Revelation are, but they're both obviously trying to be something other than the classic FE plot structure. Fates should have just abandoned the obvious marketing gimmick and had the narrative start off with a much shorter version of Conquest where Corrin bails out once the mass murder starts and heads to Hoshido where they meet up with the Ryoma/Takumi Crew. Then Birthright happens more or less until Garon is beaten. Then the joint army heads up to Valla to stab Anankos to death.

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I still think it should've been Conquest first, where Corrin leads a successful campaign against Hoshido and shit apocalyptically hits the fan once Garon sits on that throne, then Birthright would be about the kids (y'know, 'birthright') trying to navigate the hellish landscape of the post-Conquest world trying to undo the damage that's been done, and Revelation would introduce the timey-wimey ball and allow you to mix-and-match all the characters from the previous two games in order to finally put down the entity responsible for the madness...and said entity wouldn't actually be a dragon (please).

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9 hours ago, EdeaCreamer said:

I still think it should've been Conquest first, where Corrin leads a successful campaign against Hoshido and shit apocalyptically hits the fan once Garon sits on that throne, then Birthright would be about the kids (y'know, 'birthright') trying to navigate the hellish landscape of the post-Conquest world trying to undo the damage that's been done, and Revelation would introduce the timey-wimey ball and allow you to mix-and-match all the characters from the previous two games in order to finally put down the entity responsible for the madness...and said entity wouldn't actually be a dragon (please).

So Conquest and then Birthright in a sort-of Genealogy-like style? I have to admit that's a pretty intriguing idea that I hadn't considered before. :)

Heck, your idea for Revelation's inclusion even sounds a little like Genealogy's proposed Part 3 that never made it.

Edited by Sentinel07

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On 12/2/2018 at 3:41 PM, Vince777 said:

I love both the Kaga Fire Emblem games a lot and the very recent titles. Fates actually more than Awakening.

Is this really so rare?

Yes, and having such an amazingly reasonable opinion is why I'm banning you! :P:

I think every Fire Emblem title did something-or-other well enough, whether it be how generations were handled in FE4, the "what did I just get myself into?" moment that is the beginning of Chapter 7 in FE6, how RD managed such a huge cast, or how mostly every item is infinite in Awakening.  Take what each game did right, and build on it, and I think Three Houses should be okay.

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Honestly; I'm rather hoping new console, new era. By this, I mean I'm hoping that it doesn't take too much influence from the 3DS FE games or even from the old FE games (despite me personally hoping mechanics from Path of Radiance such as base conversations and actual worldbuilding and character depth). Instead, I hope that instead they focus on making a new game that stands as its own thing while having great gameplay, story, characters and worldbuilding. 

This seems to be what they're going with, based on the trailer, but we don't yet know nearly enough. 

I think it's the only way that they can keep from dividing the fanbase; if the game becomes more of a throwback to the old FE games, that can alienate the Awakening/Fates group of FE fans, while if it is influenced too much by Awakening/Fates, it'll further alienate the already somewhat alienated classic FE fanbase. I think starting something new that doesn't feel too reminiscent of either part of FE's history is the best option. 

For comparison to another popular game series: Skyward Sword attempted to appease both the Wind Waker fans and the Twilight Princess fans, and now it's regarded as one of the worst 3D Zelda games (there were other factors that contributed to that, but I think to disregard the compromised focus as a factor would be a mistake), while Breath of the Wild stood out as its own thing and is now considered one of the best 3D Zelda games. 

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If IS can go fully in the opposite direction of this, where the story and characters feel far more realistic and logical, rather than stuff like this in the newer games, then I think I'll enjoy it.
Echoes was amazing story wise and that was because IS didn't try to go all out anime pandering, at least not in an "in your face" method at least. It took itself seriously and didn't care about letting players marry and have child units with each of the characters. It was focused on telling a story first, gameplay options second...and I respect it immensely for that as those are the things I really enjoy in videogames in general.

Against all odds (like echoes selling horribly sadly) three houses looks like it's taking itself far more seriously in the story and writing departments...as long as they polish everything up from what we saw in the trailer, then I think I could end up loving the game.

Edited by Dinar87

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I'd hope it's heavily influenced by Fates, since everything but the story was very enjoyable. All the new mechanics, the maps, the character designs, etc. were all great while the story was weak. That said, I don't expect much out of IS when it comes to story, as even their best efforts are usually just decent. If I have to pick, I'd still hope that at least the gameplay turns out strong, since Echoes showed me that IS putting story and presentation over gameplay didn't make for as good of an experience. I can overlook a worse story if the gameplay is really good, but not so much the other way around.

Either way, I get more of a RD feel from the trailer rather than anything like the 3DS games.

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On 22/12/2018 at 7:07 PM, Alkaid said:

I'd hope it's heavily influenced by Fates, since everything but the story was very enjoyable. All the new mechanics, the maps, the character designs, etc. were all great while the story was weak. That said, I don't expect much out of IS when it comes to story, as even their best efforts are usually just decent. If I have to pick, I'd still hope that at least the gameplay turns out strong, since Echoes showed me that IS putting story and presentation over gameplay didn't make for as good of an experience. I can overlook a worse story if the gameplay is really good, but not so much the other way around.

Either way, I get more of a RD feel from the trailer rather than anything like the 3DS games.

That's really just how the earlier games were, especially with Echoes being a remake of a game taking a lot of notes from JRPGs. I'd describe Kaga's games as experimental in nature and they don't necessarily hit the mark most of the time when it comes to gameplay. I wouldn't call it a direction that IS is taking with the gameplay because it's a remake, however I do think they took the criticism of Fates's story and tried doing something about it. Unfortunately things don't work out always work out in the end with a hack like Kusakihara.

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I hope Three Houses does its own thing and has its own identity, and that said identity is good. We don't need the series to regurgitate its earlier entries, even if those are good.

That said, there are a bunch of things I'd like them to take from Awakening and (especially) Fates/Conquest, including:

  • well-thought out map design with varied mission objectives
  • weapon durability staying gone in favour of balanced choices
  • having a memorable cast (there's a reason Awakening/Fates dominated the top ~100 of CYL)
  • having a gender-balanced cast (and not subjecting over half of your women to kidnapping, sorry not sorry SoV)

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I enjoyed Awakening and thought Fates was alright, but if this game is its own thing, or more similar to the GBA era, it'll be a pleasant suprise. Unfortunately, since the series recieved a massive spike in popularity when Awakening came out I doubt this will happen.

Other than the level design I don't dislike anything about the modern Fire Emblem games' gameplay. If the characters and writing see an improvement and the game has less annoying fanservice, it could be one of the better Fire Emblem games. I think too much influence from fates could hurt the game a bit, but in my opinion as long as it doesn't take too much from the worsts parts of Fates (mostly writing), it'll probably be fine. I'll probably get some amount of enjoyment out of it no matter what happens.

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I think it'll stand on its own fine other than the fact that its on entirely new hardware with more power if anything it'll retain more core features like the balanced pair up and weapon balance system and run with its own story.

Kids are up in the air 50/50 it happens or doesn't

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Well, that's a shame, and a bit surprising since I feel like I saw a lot more people praising the change than attacking it (which says something given the internet's penchant for negativity) but fortunately not a dealbreaker for me.

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Its near guarantee it'll be everything what Awakening + Fates + new story.

Nintendo was about to pull the plug on Fire emblem franchise as a whole, even if the developers felt brave and trying new directions. It'll get shot down by Nintendo

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On 12/24/2018 at 5:55 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I hope Three Houses does its own thing and has its own identity, and that said identity is good. We don't need the series to regurgitate its earlier entries, even if those are good.

 

That would also be a good idea. Whatever Three Houses does, I hope it won't end up like Awakening and Fates, as those two represent everything wrong with Fire Emblem, but that's just me.

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25 minutes ago, Roland said:

That would also be a good idea. Whatever Three Houses does, I hope it won't end up like Awakening and Fates, as those two represent everything wrong with Fire Emblem, but that's just me.

That's quite the judgmental thing to say, don't you think? Sure they have flaws, but Awakening and Fates are that bad, man.

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4 minutes ago, Decerd said:

That's quite the judgmental thing to say, don't you think? Sure they have flaws, but Awakening and Fates are that bad, man.

D-Did you just call me stating my opinions on two video games "judgmental"?

Well, you can disagree as much as you, but it won't change my thoughts on them.

 

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5 minutes ago, Roland said:

D-Did you just call me stating my opinions on two video games "judgmental"?

Well, you can disagree as much as you, but it won't change my thoughts on them.

 

Yes. I did. Calling Awakening and Fates, in your words, "everything wrong with Fire Emblem" is a rather extreme thing to say, when I and many others, would not agree with that sentiment in the slightest. Do they have flaws? Yes. Are they the absolute thing to ever happen to the series? Hell no, and I would encourage you to reconsider how you speak about them.

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7 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Yes. I did. Calling Awakening and Fates, in your words, "everything wrong with Fire Emblem" is a rather extreme thing to say, when I and many others, would not agree with that sentiment in the slightest. Do they have flaws? Yes. Are they the absolute thing to ever happen to the series? Hell no, and I would encourage you to reconsider how you speak about them.

So, let me see if I get this right. You don't like the fact that I said Awakening and Fates are everything wrong with Fire Emblem, and you somehow think it's judgmental, of all things, to say that, and you don't want me to badmouth it anymore because you and potentially other people will disagree with me?

You pulling some kind of prank here, man?

Edited by Roland

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58 minutes ago, Roland said:

That would also be a good idea. Whatever Three Houses does, I hope it won't end up like Awakening and Fates, as those two represent everything wrong with Fire Emblem, but that's just me.

How so? If you don’t mind me asking, I mean what specifically about awakening and fates rub you the wrong way? To the point where you’d say something as extreme as “...those two represent everything wrong with fire emblem” I am legit curious. 

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On 25-12-2018 at 12:55 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

having a gender-balanced cast (and not subjecting over half of your women to kidnapping, sorry not sorry SoV)

Binding blade is also pretty bad at it with most female characters ending up in the dungeon at one point or another. Even Niime in one route. 

But on the whole Fire Emblem isn't too bad with this trope. Lots of female characters are kidnapped but usually a lot of males too which makes things more even. 

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Binding blade is also pretty bad at it with most female characters ending up in the dungeon at one point or another. Even Niime in one route. 

But on the whole Fire Emblem isn't too bad with this trope. Lots of female characters are kidnapped but usually a lot of males too which makes things more even. 

The series isn't the worst about it but it has been trending in a positive direction (ignoring SoV which was, I suppose, being faithful to FE2) and I was merely expressing a hope that would continue. Awakening and Fates, since they were the point of conversation, more or less got away from it entirely.

 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

So, let me see if I get this right. You don't like the fact that I said Awakening and Fates are everything wrong with Fire Emblem, and you somehow think it's judgmental, of all things, to say that, and you don't want me to badmouth it anymore because you and potentially other people will disagree with me?

You pulling some kind of prank here, man?

You're entitled to your opinion, although as you already stated it in the original post, I'm not sure how much restating it (and in stronger terms than before) was going to help with anything besides getting people angry. Also, I'd invite you to think more constructively about the games; every game in the series has both good and bad points, and in a thread like this (i.e. how might the games influence Three Houses) it's worth keeping the good in mind too.

My personal least favourite game in the series is Shadow Dragon but I can still point at some good things it did, and in fact it ended up having some influences on Awakening and Fates (which I do like) I consider to be good.

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3 hours ago, Roland said:

That would also be a good idea. Whatever Three Houses does, I hope it won't end up like Awakening and Fates, as those two represent everything wrong with Fire Emblem, but that's just me.

Would you like it if I called you everything wrong with the FE fandom?  Pretty sure the answer is "no", and you'd be absolutely right about that.  I'm also 90% certain that your issues with the 3DS games didn't originate with the 3DS games.

See, every FE game did certain things well.  And they also did certain things horribly wrong.  But this isn't the topic to hash out what went right or wrong in every FE.  There will probably be elements of the 3DS games in Three Houses.  The question is whether or not you can live with that.

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