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Fighter Promotions  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Fighter promotion do you like the most?

    • Berserker (Axes only. Higher Crit rate)
      14
    • Warrior (Axes & Bows)
      9
    • Hero (Axes & Swords)
      13
  2. 2. Which Fighter promotion do you like the least?

    • Berserker (Axes only. Higher Crit rate)
      10
    • Warrior (Axes & Bows)
      19
    • Hero (Axes & Swords)
      7


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12 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Hero is probably the best of these hands down, but I've always found Berserkers more appealing because of how restricted your access to them usually is.

Kinda this. There is an allure to a rare class that has potential to deal the most damage in your army by a hefty margin, even if it's inconsistent.

Hero's overall the best, but there's something fun about Berserkers, even if a lot of them suck eggs.

Warriors are the worst.

Edited by Slumber

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Fighters promoting to Berserker is the thing with the lowest (how-drastic-it-is)-to-(makes-me-a-little-disappointed-I-skipped-Fates) ratio. Since Pirates and Fighters are so similar and Berserker has previously been a very rare class, it's a brilliant move.

While Warrior is the worst class, I have a weird dislike for the Fighter -> Hero promotion for the Hipster-tastic reason that Hero is so much better than Warrior. Since FE7 was my first Fire Emblem game, Warriors were the definitive Fighter promotion to me, and it also bothered me how Fighters lost so much muscle mass when promoting to Hero.

So, even though Warrior is easily the worst class and objectively the best one to ditch from the series, I have weird, too-cool-for-the-mainstream caution of promoting Fighters to Heroes.

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2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Fighters promoting to Berserker is the thing with the lowest (how-drastic-it-is)-to-(makes-me-a-little-disappointed-I-skipped-Fates) ratio. Since Pirates and Fighters are so similar and Berserker has previously been a very rare class, it's a brilliant move.

While Warrior is the worst class, I have a weird dislike for the Fighter -> Hero promotion for the Hipster-tastic reason that Hero is so much better than Warrior. Since FE7 was my first Fire Emblem game, Warriors were the definitive Fighter promotion to me, and it also bothered me how Fighters lost so much muscle mass when promoting to Hero.

So, even though Warrior is easily the worst class and objectively the best one to ditch from the series, I have weird, too-cool-for-the-mainstream caution of promoting Fighters to Heroes.

I don't think Warrior would properly ever get the.... *ahem*, the axe. It is an iconic class, as bad as it is.

I think there just needs to be some rebalancing. Whatever they did in the Tellius games worked fine. Warrior's actually decent there, and they made it a fairly well-balanced class, as opposed to a class that ONLY focuses on HP and Str. Give them decent defense, give them decent skill, give them decent speed, and I think they'd be fine. Make them the "safe" option, compared to the Berserker's high HP, strength and speed that aids in their "high-risk, high-reward" playstyle.

Also, if IS ever made a game where bows weren't shit and a game that also had Warriors, I think they'd fare much better. As it stands, Bows being shit and Warriors being in a game go hand-in-hand.

Edited by Slumber

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8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I don't think Warrior would properly ever get the.... *ahem*, the axe. It is an iconic class, as bad as it is.

I think there just needs to be some rebalancing. Whatever they did in the Tellius games worked fine. Warrior's actually decent there, and they made it a fairly well-balanced class, as opposed to a class that ONLY focuses on HP and Str.

Also, if IS ever made a game where bows weren't shit and a game that also had Warriors, I think they'd fare much better. As it stands, Bows being shit and Warriors being in a game go hand-in-hand.

The first thing I'd do is give Warriors significantly more Skill.  If they're going to be slow, they should at least be able to hit things reliably.  Meanwhile Berserkers can continue to be a kind of high risk/high reward class with their high speed and low accuracy.

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1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The first thing I'd do is give Warriors significantly more Skill.  If they're going to be slow, they should at least be able to hit things reliably.  Meanwhile Berserkers can continue to be a kind of high risk/high reward class with their high speed and low accuracy.

Funny you mentioned that right after my edit.

But yeah. IS needs to stop with the Cord/Bord bullshit. Just base every fighter on Barst.

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

But yeah. IS needs to stop with the Cord/Bord bullshit. Just base every fighter on Barst.

I'd like to see them merge the Bord/Cord and Cain/Abel archetypes for once.  I believe Radiant Dawn almost did this with Nolan and Boyd (correct me if I'm wrong), but the two don't seem to have any special story relationship.

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Base every Warrior on Geitz, who had the weird distinction of being the best bow user in FE7! :P:

Ahem. . .I think the issue is that Heroes have a better stat spread, and 'zerkers can randomly deal way more damage than necessary.  Warriors have a nice high Strength cap, which is great if they need to OHKO something (hence why I like using bows with them).  But how often does that situation come up?

Oh, right, topic.  I like overkill, so 'zerkers for me~!

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2 hours ago, Slumber said:

I don't think Warrior would properly ever get the.... *ahem*, the axe. It is an iconic class, as bad as it is.

Warriors are a staple of sorts, but Fire Emblem could probably use with some streamlining of class options. Don't get me wrong, they're neat and could be rebalanced to the point of being good, but since hand axes are a thing, I don't really know what it would give that Hero and Berserker can't. Then again, I didn't play Fates, which I know made some tweaks to those 1-2 range weapons.

 

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Give them decent defense, give them decent skill, give them decent skill, and I think they'd be fine.

Skill is important, yes.

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6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Warriors are a staple of sorts, but Fire Emblem could probably use with some streamlining of class options. Don't get me wrong, they're neat and could be rebalanced to the point of being good, but since hand axes are a thing, I don't really know what it would give that Hero and Berserker can't. Then again, I didn't play Fates, which I know made some tweaks to those 1-2 range weapons.

I don't think streamlining classes is where the series needs to go. I feel like PoR hit the sweet spot.

I've been against Fates' style of "EVERYTHING IS A CLASS" pretty much since day 1, but the inverse is equally bad. The Fire Emblem series needs a moderate amount of variety, for both good and bad.

6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Skill is important, yes.

Goddammit.

3 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Can someone explain to me why warriors are a bad class? I don't understand what makes them poor.

Typically bad stat distribution. Axes have been iffy throughout the franchise. Bows are an awful addition in every game that Warriors have used them when Hand Axes exist, which just makes the thing that makes them stand out feel really redundant and unnecessary(Unless you're like Geitz and can start out using the best bows in the game).

Edited by Slumber

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6 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Can someone explain to me why warriors are a bad class? I don't understand what makes them poor.

So in most games (except the Tellius ones apparently) Warriors specialize in HP and Str and are poor just about everywhere else.  They have difficulties hitting, they have difficulties double-attacking, and their defenses aren't super outstanding.

Berserkers also have accuracy problems, but at least they're somewhat better at double-attacking.

Which games have you played again?

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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Just now, Slumber said:

I feel like PoR hit the sweet spot.

I would agree, for the most part. It's class system needed a little refining but was honestly pretty solid. Still, even in that game, your selection of axe infantry classes and units was pretty small.

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1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I would agree, for the most part. It's class system needed a little refining but was honestly pretty solid. Still, even in that game, your selection of axe infantry classes and units was pretty small.

That was unit streamlining, though. You still got a Warrior(Boyd) and a Berserker(Largo).

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4 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Which games have you played again?

FE:4,8,9,10,11,12,13,14, 15 and Heroes. I mostly ignored the class in the games I played.

 

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

That was unit streamlining, though. You still got a Warrior(Boyd) and a Berserker(Largo).

I wouldn't say two units merits having three possible promotion options for them- though I am assuming a two-way split promotion path in saying these things, which you might not be.

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8 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

So in most games (except the Tellius ones apparently) Warriors specialize in HP and Str and are poor just about everywhere else.  They have difficulties hitting, they have difficulties double-attacking, and their defenses aren't super outstanding.

Not in the case of Boyd. He's a typical Warrior through and through.

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3 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I wouldn't say two units merits having three possible promotion options for them- though I am assuming a two-way split promotion path in saying these things, which you might not be.

I am assuming a linear promotion.

And if we're talking about a split, the Fighter's options are probably going to be Hero and Warrior, not Hero and Berserker as per Fates.

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1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Not in the case of Boyd. He's a typical Warrior through and through.

Oh.  I haven't played the Tellius games.  I had based my judgement earlier on what Slumber was saying.  Oops.

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I am assuming a linear promotion.

And if we're talking about a split, the Fighter's options are probably going to be Hero and Warrior, not Hero and Berserker as per Fates.

Yeah, that's a difference, alright.

That might be the traditional arrangement, but as indicated, I would probably slim down to one base axe class with the Hero and Berserker promotions if I were the dedicated Senior Class Promotion Option Designer or whatever. With linear promotions, I'd of course still support two axe infantry lines so Berserker could hang around.

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18 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Not in the case of Boyd. He's a typical Warrior through and through.

U srs? Boyd's the closest thing the franchise has ever had to a Barst successor.

PoR Boyd has a 50% skill growth and a 45% speed growth. He even has a pretty standard 25% res growth. He also has a pretty tame HP growth at 75%. The only things typical about him are his 60% strength growth and 25% defense growth. He's very close statistically to Ike, a Mercenary.

RD Boyd isn't much different. RD Boyd's bases, as a mid-tier unit, are pretty indicative of a typical Bord-type Fighter, mostly in that he's slow and bulky. But he brings over his Barst-esque growths, on top of now having doubled his defense growth. He'll start out being a typical Warrior, but after two or 3 levels, he's more or less caught up to certain members of the IM in speed, and will eventually start to catch up to or pass any of the Cavaliers, the Mages, and just about anybody who isn't a Swordmaster or Shinon. His other stats all being very respectable to start with.

Edited by Slumber

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I like heroes the most, but I also feel like they're the most boring to use. I think Fire Emblem often has a huge amount of units with high speed and skill, and those units dominate the battlefield all the time. I can't help but feel like it would ultimately be more interesting to promote to warrior or berserker.

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Fighter > Warrior is a classic for a reason. Axes and bows? You aren't getting that anywhere else. And they both work really well for the image of a powerful, rugged bruiser. Fighter > Hero is an organic way to overlap with the similar Mercenary class, and is a very believable alternative. Fighter > Berserker is just weird to me. Fighters have some discipline, after all.

12 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I'd like to see them merge the Bord/Cord and Cain/Abel archetypes for once.  I believe Radiant Dawn almost did this with Nolan and Boyd (correct me if I'm wrong), but the two don't seem to have any special story relationship.

Orsin and Halvan count, for mine.

Edited by Parrhesia

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Warrior is the best in my opinion. High strength and HP with enough speed to keep up and enough skill to actually hit reliably, plus axes and bows is a unique combination. It conveys the idea of a rugged juggernaut who is at home on the battlefield.

Berserkers capture that Juggernaut image to an extent, but they do not look at home on the battlefield; they tend to look more like crazed bodybuilders wearing inexplicable patches of furs. Berserker has always been better as a bandit promotion in my opinion.

Of course, I could be biased as my favourite FE games are the Tellius games, and I feel that, apart from the amount of fighter units available, they handled the warrior class very well. 

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