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Spatha

The Nintendo DS was a missed opportunity for the FE series.

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When looking at it historically, the Nintendo DS should have had a mainline Fire Emblem game instead of just 2 straightforward remakes of the Archanea Saga.

Judging by the success of Awakening in the 3DS, the many turn based rpgs that took advantage of DS capabilities, the success of Advance Wars,and the 3 GBA games.

Imagine this. A mainline DS game with beautiful 2d sprites and attack animations that evolved from the GBA games and having improved gameplay that Awakening, Fates and Shadows of Valentia only introduced later.

Instead, the DS had to make do with 2 remakes, that when compared to the 3 GBA titles , is an inferior follow-up in the eyes of the western fanbase.

Nintendo has missed an opportunity to make the Fire Emblem series grow even more popular.

Adding the fact that Radiant Dawn was the only major FE game and how New Mystery remains unavailable except through emulation.

Nintendo and IS can only blame themselves for Fire Emblem nearly failing in the west and the need for Awakening to "save the franchise".

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I do think the DS era was a massive case of wasted potential. After Smash the western fans were ready to experience Marth's adventure but then IS gives them a half backed, barely updated remake that lags behind the game the west has already played. 

I think the biggest waste is that the games didn't do anything with the Archenean cast. If they were to get strong representation in crossovers over the likes of Tellius or Elibe then Shadow Dragon should have convinced the west these characters are really special and deserving of it rather than giving us a whole load of blank slates and not releasing the game that actually bothered to characterize them a bit. It would have made crossover stuff a lot easier to swallow for me if Shadow Dragon had done its job properly.  

However the idea of the DS game damaging the FE series is a bit of an outdated one. Now the blame is usually placed on RD tragically not getting the sales it deserved. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Considering of whats known about Japanese RD, i mostly question why the fuck its a thing yes

 

Also a remake of FE3 is something IS SHOULD do at one point. The real mistake of Archanea saga remakes in DS era is remaking Shadow Dragon, the game nobody give a fuck about, not even Japanese themselves because it lost their first game honor to FE3.

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6 hours ago, Spatha said:

Judging by the success of Awakening in the 3DS, the many turn based rpgs that took advantage of DS capabilities, the success of Advance Wars,and the 3 GBA games.

Imagine this. A mainline DS game with beautiful 2d sprites and attack animations that evolved from the GBA games and having improved gameplay that Awakening, Fates and Shadows of Valentia only introduced later.

Instead, the DS had to make do with 2 remakes, that when compared to the 3 GBA titles , is an inferior follow-up in the eyes of the western fanbase.

Nintendo has missed an opportunity to make the Fire Emblem series grow even more popular.

maybe that's because they also worked on their other "twin" franchise back in the days, aka Advance Wars, so they had their hands full.

the problem is that while those 2 series bloomed on the GBA, they slowly ended up dying in the DS era.

AW sadly got the worst fate, as it died entirely. FE at least got saved by Awakening on the 3DS.

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25 minutes ago, Fenreir said:

maybe that's because they also worked on their other "twin" franchise back in the days, aka Advance Wars, so they had their hands full.

the problem is that while those 2 series bloomed on the GBA, they slowly ended up dying in the DS era.

AW sadly got the worst fate, as it died entirely. FE at least got saved by Awakening on the 3DS.

IMO, Advance Wars got the better deal when compared to Fire Emblem in the DS era.

Dual Strike and especially Days of Ruin was certainly better than Shadow Dragon in terms presentation and gameplay.

Alas, the tragedy of games not being able to meet their sales quota despite their quality.

Edited by Spatha

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2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Also a remake of FE3 is something IS SHOULD do at one point.

They've already done a remake of FE3. Why would they remake it again?

Quote

I honestly blame Nintendo for forcing RD to be released as a buggy mess

How is it a "buggy mess", exactly?

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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12 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

They've already done a remake of FE3. Why would they remake it again?

An Echoes style remake would be great for the Archanea series, not that ugly and half-hearted excuse for a remake that are the DS titles.

Edited by Spatha

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7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Now the blame is usually placed on RD tragically not getting the sales it deserved. 

Which makes me ask, who the hell thought it was a good idea to release it in the same month as Super Mario Galaxy?!

Anyways, I kinda agree that the DS games were a blown chance, with Western fans only getting a game that was outdone by all the other games that came west before it (imo, at least).

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I don't think it's up for dispute that the DS remakes were a missed opportunity. That said they did make considerable improvements in writing: Shadow Dragon fleshed out a barebones script while New Mystery expanded on many characters; but they faltered on the opposite end. In terms of gameplay I would call Shadow Dragon faithful in all the wrong ways, although it's still a solid experience on its own.

The true debate should be whether or not Archanea deserves another chance; I'm in the camp that says it does. You can point to New Mystery all you want, but

  1. It was a JP-only release;
  2. Nintendo doesn't localize several-years old games (give me an example if you disagree, and don't say MOTHER); and...
  3. It was only one book of a game that included two.

Shadows of Valentia set a new standard for remakes of older games, and I would love to see Archanea brought up to that standard. Besides, the game would have a lot of source material to pick and choose from when settling on the gameplay, and that's without the possibility of them coming up with entirely new innovations.

Marth's saga is missing proper closure outside of Japan. Marth, the face of the franchise, has an incomplete story. I don't care if he has to wait behind Sigurd and Roy for it, it needs to happen.

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18 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

The true debate should be whether or not Archanea deserves another chance; I'm in the camp that says it does. You can point to New Mystery all you want, but

I think most people think Archenea deserves a better shot. Even I think Archenea should get another remake....but not right now. First Jugdral and Blazing swords need to have their turn and only then can Archenea have its third chance. An Archenean remake coming while those other two are still Japanese only suggest that Jugdral and Elibe must wait just because Archenea(or rather Nintendo) couldn't be bothered to do things properly with the first remakes. 

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I will agree that it was handled poorly. Shadow Dragon mostly to be fair. But the bits of expanded lore we got in both games and the fact we finally got a game with Marth as the main character are its only highlights, at least for Shadow Dragon. New Mystery on the other hand, well I feel that game was amazing. Well as amazing as a remake of an Archenea game can be. The assassin subplot I greatly enjoyed and while playing through the game this honestly had one of the bigger personal story and character impacts for me. Especially concerning Nyna, Hardin, Minerva, and Michalis. I won't say its perfect and I know I'm in the minority here but New Mystery is in my top 5 Fire Emblem games without question.

The other slotholders are Awakening (for introducing me to the series and just being so nostalgic to me), Radiant Dawn (It's just a massive game and story with great characters minus the dawn brigade), Echoes (this is how a remake should be, no a FE game should be, not worried on the blatent fanservice like fates and even awakening to an extent, but fanservice as properly handling the legacy and characters of the source, which I'll briefly compare to Awakening being a culmination of every FE prior), and at the moment Sacred Stones (it's a decent story and plays well, just I haven't finished 6 or 7 so not putting them here and definitely not shadow dragon or fates, so until I get and play through PoR Sacred Stones is here)

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3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

They've already done a remake of FE3. Why would they remake it again?

How is it a "buggy mess", exactly?

I don't know what you used to quote me, but it didn't notify and there's no history in my notifications. I just happened to relook this topic. Anyways, from what I heard the game was buggy upon release in Japan and received game fixing patches in the English localisation

Edited by silveraura25

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I think Archanea should get a third remake in the style of Echoes and have it contain both Book 1 and 2 with elements of the DS remakes...but not immediately. I still feel like Jugdral and Binding Blade need a remake first just so newer fans who became interested in them via Heroes can play them without having to resort to emulation.

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7 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

I think Archanea should get a third remake in the style of Echoes and have it contain both Book 1 and 2 with elements of the DS remakes...but not immediately. I still feel like Jugdral and Binding Blade need a remake first just so newer fans who became interested in them via Heroes can play them without having to resort to emulation.

Yeah, I feel like Jugdral and Elibe should be remade(Also a remaster of Tellius) before they try to do Archanea again.

I do think it should happen eventually. IS is going to have to convince the world that Marth is worth caring about if they're going to keep using him and FE1/3 as the basis for more games.

Edited by Slumber

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, I feel like Jugdral and Elibe should be remade(Also a remaster of Tellius) before they try to do Archanea again.

Tellius too. If nothing else, just give us a Virtual Console release of both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn just so people can play them without having to shill out hundreds of dollars on eBay or trying to get a Dolphin emulator to work. Of course that can only happen if Nintendo actually gives us a damn Virtual Console on the Switch instead of the pathetic excuse of the Online Service they have.

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, I feel like Jugdral and Elibe should be remade(Also a remaster of Tellius) before they try to do Archanea again.

I do think it should happen eventually. IS is going to have to convince the world that Marth is worth caring about if they're going to keep using him and FE1/3 as the basis for more games.

or eventually they could proceed in the following way:

- create a new FE title related to Archanea, but this time around it starts with Anri's story;

- play the game throu Anri's path, leading up to Marth's story upon completion;

- play throu Prince Marth's path, leading up to Marth finally becoming king upon completion;

- play throu Hero King Marth's path, leading to the true end of the war with the empire.

 

all remade in modern graphics, with improved gameplay from New Mystery and new features from recent titles, with either Yusuke Kozaki's art style to keep it connected with Awakening, or eventually Hidari's if we want to keep the art connected with Echoes.

i'd buy something like that without even thinking twice.

[edit] considering these:

latest?cb=20090207150637

640?cb=20120223022321

 

basicly Anri would be a badass as much as adult Ike, just with long hair and different armor colors. or Priam.

damn, i really need to stop dreaming.

Edited by Fenreir

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I don't think the solution to shoddy remakes is to remake them again. If they think they can announce another remake of Marth's dorky game and that I'd slam down sixty dollars immediately they got another thing coming. Especially when there are other classic entries in this series that ought to be next on the list for a remake. I'd rather see full scale remakes of the Judgral and Elibe games as well as HD remasters of Tellius and all of 3DS era before they take another shot at archanea. A straight localized release of FE3 however, I'd buy that in a heart beat like any of FE1-6. 

But yeah, Dual Screen Fire Emblem had a lot of potential. I think the DKC graphics were ill conceived from the start, but you have to admit 3DS era really improved in its battle graphics following Awakening so maybe they could have gotten it to look right on a second attempt.

Edited by Glennstavos

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I love Archanea (and the DS games), but I absolutely don't want another remake. . .well, not before Jugdral/Elibe, at minimum.  The DS games told me who this Marth guy was, and gave me a ton of fanfic ideas.  IMO it did exactly as it should've.

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At the very least, they could have provided an updated Shadow Dragon, with an improved/modernised gameplay with an vastly expanded story. And the Japanese version either:

  • has a free/discounted DLC of the original game mode on the Wii, or
  • detects a copy of my proposed Shadow Dragon on its 3DS, and then allows a free/discounted download of the original NES (or alternately the SNES version) of the game.

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I do agree that the DS era was a missed opportunity, it is hard to say that we would have gotten awakening style gameplay due to the nature of awakening being more of a going out party than a new entry, it is also hard to say that it would have done much better due to general handling not being much better at the time.

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I reckon it would have done a lot better were it released as one game instead of two like FE3. FE3 had the hype in Japan, I expect it would have been a hyped remake there, more so than Shadow Dragon. Splitting them into two made New Mystery feel like half a game as someone else pointed out. A more comprehensive game released in all territories probably would have done better than two games with one of them being Japan only.

On 12/17/2018 at 3:50 AM, X-Naut said:

I don't think it's up for dispute that the DS remakes were a missed opportunity. That said they did make considerable improvements in writing: Shadow Dragon fleshed out a barebones script while New Mystery expanded on many characters; but they faltered on the opposite end. In terms of gameplay I would call Shadow Dragon faithful in all the wrong ways, although it's still a solid experience on its own.

The true debate should be whether or not Archanea deserves another chance; I'm in the camp that says it does. You can point to New Mystery all you want, but

  1. It was a JP-only release;
  2. Nintendo doesn't localize several-years old games (give me an example if you disagree, and don't say MOTHER); and...
  3. It was only one book of a game that included two.

Shadows of Valentia set a new standard for remakes of older games, and I would love to see Archanea brought up to that standard. Besides, the game would have a lot of source material to pick and choose from when settling on the gameplay, and that's without the possibility of them coming up with entirely new innovations.

Marth's saga is missing proper closure outside of Japan. Marth, the face of the franchise, has an incomplete story. I don't care if he has to wait behind Sigurd and Roy for it, it needs to happen.

Super Mario Bros. the lost levels.

Sin and Punishment.

Earthbound Beginnings (hey, you said not to say Mother!)

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2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The first is a platformer with as less text than a menu at McDonald's. The second had a whole bunch of English in it already.

What's your point?

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