De-echoing the Echoes

[Jotari]

So branding clone fighters as Echoes seems like it was a great idea. However, I feel like it might now encourage a lack of innovation when it comes to these characters in the future. In the past, when a clone appeared in one game, they returned with a lot of changes to make them a more distinct character, yet the SSB4 clones didn't see many changes when they were made in Smash 5. Dark Pit in particular has a lot going for him that could have been added. But what changes should these characters actually get? I'd like to hear your thoughts. What new standard and/or special moves would you give the Echo fighters in future installments to make them stand out from their original counterparts?

EDIT: You can also suggest changes for the original character too. Not always is Decloning done with the original character. See Roy keeping the old neutral special animation

Edited December 18, 2018 by Jotari

[Punished Dayni]

Lucina and Chrom: Jumping spin attack for their final smash or an aerial.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Lucina and Chrom: Jumping spin attack for their final smash or an aerial.

I was actually thinking the same thing. It's pretty darn distinctive yet represented absolutely nowhere.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Richter - make him faster, jump higher, shorten the whip, make holy water bounce but deal less damage, and cross deal less damage on throw, more on return.

Chrom and Lucina - increase jump height, down aerial to their iconic spin jump

Roy - sword wave on Neutral Special akin to Cloud's

[Perkilator]

Dark Samus

-Make the down-Smash summon her Phazon tentacle thingies.

-Make the Phazon bullets her side-B

-Make the three Phazon orbs her neutral-B.

-Let her turn into Metroid Prime for her Final Smash.

 

Daisy

-Have a Crazee Dayzee for her down-B.

-Have her Final Smash be a monochrome Sky Pop.

 

Lucina

-Make that spinning wheel attack be a side-B.

-Make Aether her Final Smash.

 

Chrom

-Refer to Lucina for side-B.

-MAKE ?? A ?? CONFESSION ?? HIS ?? FINAL ?? SMASH.

 

Dark Pit

-Make Arrow Rain his Final Smash.

 

Richter

-Make Holy Water work like it did in Rondo of Blood.

-Increase Uppercut height (since Richter’s the more agile one).

-Change Final Smash to Hydro Storm.

[Dragoncat]

13 minutes ago, Jingilator said:

-MAKE ?? A ?? CONFESSION ?? HIS ?? FINAL ?? SMASH.

How would that work though? Killing the foe with love? LOL!

[Etrurian emperor]

Dark Pit

-Replace the bow with a staff: With a staff in Uprising carrying his name and with his final Smash using it its safe to say that Pittoo favors the staff as a weapon. They could replace the bow with a  staff that works similar to how the staff works as an item. A greater distance when using it means greater damage.

-Replace the guardian orbitars with attacking orbitars: Pit using his down special to shield and reflect and Pittoo using it to attack would reflect his more violent nature. He'd pull the orbitars out just like Pit but rather than shield it fires two blasts at the opponents.

- Longer flight: In canon Pittoo can no longer fly and they should stick to that, but him being able to fly faster and higher than Pit would reference the fact that he spend a good deal of Uprising flying just fine on his own.

[Dismissed]

12 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

How would that work though? Killing the foe with love? LOL!

CHROM-FESSION TIME!

[CatManThree]

All I can really say to be honest is that I am pretty sure Sakurai is done with smash after this, so the creativity will likely be gone regardless.

[Jotari]

Just now, CatManThree said:

All I can really say to be honest is that I am pretty sure Sakurai is done with smash after this, so the creativity will likely be gone regardless.

Sakurai's great and all, but it'd be a bit of a fallacy to believe he's the only one on the planet that could make a decent Smash game.

[CatManThree]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Sakurai's great and all, but it'd be a bit of a fallacy to believe he's the only one on the planet that could make a decent Smash game.

Yeah that is true. I guess its just that Sakurai has always been presented as the man behind everything and the visionary behind every smash game, so a game without him at the helm is rather hard to imagine and is honestly somewhat scary to try and do so.

Anyway relating to the actual topic of this thread, I definitely see what you mean but I have to disagree on the part of them making character creation incredibly lazy. Echo fighters are seamingly much more of an expansion off of the idea for how Lucina and Dark Pit were originally supposed to be in Smash 4 as special reskins of Marth and Pit. The reason I bring this up is that echo fighters always have some sort of relation to the character they are echoing and are always from the same franchise. As such, Smash's development team can't simply turn a random character into an echo of an unrelated other character. There absolutely has to be some form of justification for doing so in terms of which character the echo fighter is and who that fighter is echoing.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, CatManThree said:

Yeah that is true. I guess its just that Sakurai has always been presented as the man behind everything and the visionary behind every smash game, so a game without him at the helm is rather hard to imagine and is honestly somewhat scary to try and do so.

Anyway relating to the actual topic of this thread, I definitely see what you mean but I have to disagree on the part of them making character creation incredibly lazy. Echo fighters are seamingly much more of an expansion off of the idea for how Lucina and Dark Pit were originally supposed to be in Smash 4 as special reskins of Marth and Pit. The reason I bring this up is that echo fighters always have some sort of relation to the character they are echoing and are always from the same franchise. As such, Smash's development team can't simply turn a random character into an echo of an unrelated other character. There absolutely has to be some form of justification for doing so in terms of which character the echo fighter is and who that fighter is echoing.

I didn't say it makes character creation lazy, I said I fear it'll be used to avoid innovation. I've no problem with them making Echoes to beef out the roster, I would just like the characters to stop being Echoes or be less of an Echo in the next installment. I really like how they handled Ganondorf and Falco in Brawl and Roy in SSB4. That's what I want to see going forward. But I think now that they've solidified the idea of clones being called Echo fighters, they'll just keep them the way they are. IE, Richter will be seen as an Echo of Simon, therefore he must always be near identical to Simon in every installment he appears in. Instead of viewing Richter and Simon as separate characters that can both be developed in different ways.

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Dark Pit

-Replace the bow with a staff: With a staff in Uprising carrying his name and with his final Smash using it its safe to say that Pittoo favors the staff as a weapon. They could replace the bow with a  staff that works similar to how the staff works as an item. A greater distance when using it means greater damage.

-Replace the guardian orbitars with attacking orbitars: Pit using his down special to shield and reflect and Pittoo using it to attack would reflect his more violent nature. He'd pull the orbitars out just like Pit but rather than shield it fires two blasts at the opponents.

- Longer flight: In canon Pittoo can no longer fly and they should stick to that, but him being able to fly faster and higher than Pit would reference the fact that he spend a good deal of Uprising flying just fine on his own.

I agree on the orbitars, but him favoring the staff just isn't true. If you recall, the only time he ever actually uses different weapons (the staff included) is on the one chapter named after him, with which being dependent on where he decides to go on the map. After that, he strictly sticks with the Silver bow for the rest of the game (sans CH22, of course). 

On the last point, I don't think that can be helped, considering how they seem to be drawing from a post game cast, where he no longer can on his own. And even then, his wasn't any superior to goddess given flight, save for not having a time limit. Doubling as an attack however, would have been nice (which i think was one of their custom moves in the last game?)