How to make Joker feel like a Persona character in Smash

[Jedi]

So I was thinking about all the 3rd party characters so far, and it seems to be a big goal of Sakurai and his team to make them feel as close to their home games as possible.

Sonic being defined by the Genesis’s simple controls. (Stated by Sakurai himself) and taking inspiration from Sonic the Fighters

Snake having tons of his CQC techniques and explosives.

Megaman having the key traits of feeling like he’s still from a Megaman game, including his iconic pellet shots being able to be used while standing, walking and jumping.

The Belmont’s having their supreme range and weaponry but also their slow movement and air speed.

Ryu and Ken having Street Fighter styled combos and inputs.

Cloud having limits be a central aspect of his playstyle while also taking inspiration from his FF7, Dissidia and Advent Children animations.

Bayo focusing on fancy combos that destroy enemies (and witch time).

Pac-Man being a goony mishmash of Namco arcade games.

So how do you think they’ll try to incorporate Persona 5’s aspects into how Joker plays?

[Fabulously Olivier]

The "hold up" team finisher (can't think of the name of it right now) has to be the Final Smash.

Custom victory animation reminiscent of Persona 5's stylish victory UI.

Leave behind pink particle footprints on dash animation.

 

Swap between multiple Personas. Not sure which ones would be most iconic to Joker beyond the obvious Arsene.

 

Also, Futaba would make a perfect Assist Trophy.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Etheus

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Swap between multiple Personas. Not sure which ones would be most iconic to Joker beyond the obvious Arsene.

There's a big one, but it's a Persona 5 spoiler.

He could switch between series classics like Jack Frost.

[Ottservia]

well this brings up the question of if joker will have the wild card or not. if he does, I'd imagine he might work similarly to shulk or pokemon trainer in being to swap between them at the push of a button. Or maybe each special move would be a different persona. Side special would be jack frost's bufulua, neutral special would be arsene's eiha, down special could be a persona with charge/concentrate, etc. 

As for his tilts and such, those would probably be standard dagger attacks with maybe a gun move or two. A couple things I can imagine for his grab would be the ambush animation when you sneak up on a shadow where joker would jump onto the opponent and "rip" their mask off sending them flying. Another grab is that he could throw them to the side and shoot them with his gun. and that's about all I can think of for the moment.

3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

The "hold up" team finisher (can't think of the name of it right now) has to be the Final Smash.

It's called the "All Out Attack" and yeah that would be a great FS with all the phantom thieves posing at the end of it.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Otts486 said:

well this brings up the question of if joker will have the wild card or not. if he does, I'd imagine he might work similarly to shulk or pokemon trainer in being to swap between them at the push of a button. Or maybe each special move would be a different persona. Side special would be jack frost's bufulua, neutral special would be arsene's eiha, down special could be a persona with charge/concentrate, etc. 

It's called the "All Out Attack" and yeah that would be a great FS with all the phantom thieves posing at the end of it.

Yeah Wild Card would be interesting, although they might think it’s too similar to Trainer or Shulk as mentioned, I’m not entirely sure how Sakurai will plan to bring out the key aspects of the game, that would be one way, having the other Phantom Thieves in some of his moves, like how Captain Commando in the Capcom Vs games or Captain Ginyu in Fighterz work, might be another. (For the follow up mechanic based on the Social Links).

Back when Sakurai praised P5 he mostly noted the visuals and menus, which is what I wonder if he’ll try to recapture with Joker in particular.

Also a little off the topic but, I hope they do what they did with Shulk alt wise, have Jokers colors be based off his party members.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mmm, I would say Snake is the exception to the rule. There's only one character with a stealth mechanic in Smash and its Greninja with his Shadow Sneak attack. Snake foregoing firearms is already a little weird, but no tranquilizer gun? He had it in the remake of 1, plus every numbered entry from 2 onward. And of all the cool grenade types they went with frag grenades which they could have saved for my Call of Duty Man concept. His Final Smash neither involves a metal gear nor a gatling gun on the back of a truck. Really only the Nikita Missile and C4 are moves where you look at MGS1 and say "these are perfect for smash". 

Anyway, back to Joker, I'm reminded of the Persona 4 Arena summoning mechanic. Where Persona attacks are that character's "special" moves, and they hang around after their attack. If you hit the enemy's persona enough times, they break and can't be summoned for those moves for a while. I could see them borrowing that mechanic for Joker's B moves. His Up Special will probably be a recreation of his stylish dive in the opening where he goes into a spin dive and ascends quickly in the form of Arsene. Maybe they'll give him multiple personas to switch between, but with only one iconic one related to this character, I'm not anticipating it. His throws will probably be performed from his "unmask" move when he ambushes a persona. Or they'll make a very strong throw out of that unmask move for when he grabs somebody whose back is turned to him.

As for the assist trophy idea, whichever teammate they pick, I hope that character holds their hand up when near the person they summoned, so that you could attack their hand, giving them the Baton Pass boost temporarily. And the Final Smash is very definitely going to be a cinematic hold up and then All Out Attack. The other characters who will show up will probably just be Ryuji, Ann, Morgana unless they want a random element in who appears.

[Ottservia]

5 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Yeah Wild Card would be interesting, although they might think it’s too similar to Trainer or Shulk as mentioned, I’m not entirely sure how Sakurai will plan to bring out the key aspects of the game, that would be one way, having the other Phantom Thieves in some of his moves, like how Captain Commando in the Capcom Vs games or Captain Ginyu in Fighterz work, might be another. (For the follow up mechanic based on the Social Links).

Yeah that's certainly an interesting idea and one I've thought about. Social links are a BIG part of persona after all so incorporating them into his moveset would be an awesome but I've no clue as to how sakurai could do that. I mean for the phantom thieves you could have them help out with certain moves like having him ride on makoto's motor bike for his dash attack for instance. Though maybe they could incorporate other social link abilities into his moveset like using shinya's gun critical as a side air or something.

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

Yeah that's certainly an interesting idea and one I've thought about. Social links are a BIG part of persona after all so incorporating them into his moveset would be an awesome but I've no clue as to how sakurai could do that. I mean for the phantom thieves you could have them help out with certain moves like having him ride on makoto's motor bike for his dash attack for instance. Though maybe they could incorporate other social link abilities into his moveset like using shinya's gun critical as a side air or something.

Referencing the other Phantom Thieves and maybe some of his other links through some of his moves or taunts would be a good way too now that you mention it.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Maybe they could reference Persona's elemental weaknesses by making each character weak to certain elements (ie: Chrom could be weak to Arsene's attacks, and Snake could be weak to radiation - yes, I went there). Striking foes with their weakness would do more damage and build up a stun gauge on them. 

 

It would encourage Joker to play a bit differently against each opponent.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Etheus

[Shiki]

Final Smash really needs to be the All Out attack, preferably with random compositions (though that might be costly). It's one of the most iconic things to the Persona series as a whole and it would be a big miss otherwise.
If they're going to use the spoiler instead I would be a bit upset tbh.

His taunts could be baton passes with his team. I guess they would limit themselves to Ryuji, Morgana, Ann and Yusuke (which are the most advertised ones and the only ones who speak during the announcement). Or in one of the taunts he summons the series' mascot Jack Frost (which doubles as a reference to his Wild Card).
But of course the best would be Codec-style or Palutena's guidance skits with the Phantom Thieves. Let me dream.

... I'm honestly curious how they are going to handle the gun situation with him. If you remember, they omitted guns on Snake entirely and focused solely on explosives for weapons because ... uhhh, what was the reason again? It still works for him because he has another big aspect in CQC.
On the other hand guns are a big part of Joker and otherwise he would be limited to his knives. I guess it's better than fighting barehanded for a teenager? They are pretty much soft airs so it's fine?

Edited December 19, 2018 by The Priest

[Zapp Branniglenn]

21 minutes ago, The Priest said:

 

... I'm honestly curious how they are going to handle the gun situation with him. If you remember, they omitted guns on Snake entirely and focused solely on explosives for weapons because ... uhhh, what was the reason again? It still works for him because he has another big aspect in CQC.
On the other hand guns are a big part of Joker and otherwise he would be limited to his knives. I guess it's better than fighting barehanded for a teenager? They are pretty much soft airs so it's fine?

Do the Bayonetta thing where it's like she's shooting airsoft pellets. The sound effects were altered to sound more like a toy and there's no shell casings either. 

[Zihark11]

All out attack has to be the final smash for sure.

He will definitely have attacks with personas, just which ones? Arsene probably because hes Jokers main one but could incorporate popular ones throughout the series or keep it solely Persona 5. could have some attacks have your friends from the game jump in to help with attacks, for example grabbing and throwing an opponent the animation changes depending on what direction you choose.

All in all neutrals will be his trusty dagger attacks while his specials my guess will be persona based.

[The DanMan]

39 minutes ago, The Priest said:

... I'm honestly curious how they are going to handle the gun situation with him. If you remember, they omitted guns on Snake entirely and focused solely on explosives for weapons because ... uhhh, what was the reason again? It still works for him because he has another big aspect in CQC.
On the other hand guns are a big part of Joker and otherwise he would be limited to his knives. I guess it's better than fighting barehanded for a teenager? They are pretty much soft airs so it's fine?

I could imagine it just shooting a charged beam of darkness or something and only being used as his neutral special or something.

 

Anyways, I sincerely doubt he'll do any sort of Persona switching-- Yu in Arena exclusively sticks to Izanagi, so I'm not expecting anything other than Arsene to show up in his moveset.

 

[Arcphoenix]

Perhaps his Classic route can be against characters that summon things as part of their moveset. Pac-Man, Bayonetta, Pokemon Trainer, Zelda, Duck Hunt Dog, and Game-and-Watch come to mind. If you really want to stretch it, Olimar, Isabelle, Villager,  Mario,and Greninja can count for this as well