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Conquest tiering discussion

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Without support grinding, Effie can A+ Mozu very close to their respective marriages, which will always be sooner than Silas’s A+ Kaze (who joins right when the first children are to be unlocked.)

Sniper Mozu and Sniper Effie do different things on PP, in the same way that Sorcerer Odin does tasks that Sorcerer Ophelia cannot do. Mozu is considerably faster, defter and crits more often, while Effie one-shots way more enemies and can take more damage. The situation will tell you who is more effective. (I am not trying to sell you Effie, I would say the same about Sniper Silas. It has more to do with how two Snipers fulfil different tasks.)

So, you are going with Oni Cornflakes, right? I have never tried Blacksmith, but Chieftain is certainly busted as fuck. Along with Berserker, it is the silly powerful foot-class.

It is going to be an interesting read.

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Definitely Oni. Keeps Yato access for Corrin and gives me Jakob with solid 1-2.

Support grinding for faster seal use and because I need 1900 points for the Battle Seal.

Chapter 9 is done. Corrin is a level 11 Oni, +speed -luck; Jakob is a Chieftain; Odin is a Samurai with Malefic Aura and a +2 bronze sword. Captured Haitaka who is actually going to see use this run.

Going to support grind Elise+Azura, Effie+Mozu. Not sure if I'm going to seal Effie before or after Chapter 10.

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On 2/11/2019 at 9:37 PM, starburst said:

I have never tried Blacksmith, but Chieftain is certainly busted as fuck. Along with Berserker, it is the silly powerful foot-class.

I seriously doubt that. Sorry, but with IS' VERY shaky track record with regard to axe infantry (both the units in the classes, and the classes themselves), I do not buy this for a nanosecond.

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13 hours ago, Johnnie said:

Chapter 9 is done. Corrin is a level 11 Oni, +speed -luck; Jakob is a Chieftain; Odin is a Samurai with Malefic Aura and a +2 bronze sword. Captured Haitaka who is actually going to see use this run.

Going to support grind Elise+Azura, Effie+Mozu. Not sure if I'm going to seal Effie before or after Chapter 10.

The one thing to watch out on Onis is Skill, which is significantly lower than that of other busted classes.
Luck will also be bad, but it is easier to manage. While Ninjas also have awful Luck, they hardy ever hit adjacent enemies. Onis, on the other hand, will be hitting adjacent enemies most of the time. So, just assume that your Oni will never dodge and pay attention to high crit enemies --Oni has stupid Defence, though.

Who is marrying Effie? If Silas is, go Cavalier first for Elbow Room and Shelter, then go Archer.

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1 hour ago, starburst said:

The one thing to watch out on Onis is Skill, which is significantly lower than that of other busted classes.

Okay, what gives you the impression that Oni is busted??? Because I have a difficult time seeing it.

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9 minutes ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

He was referring to other classes being busted, not onis.

How do you explain this then?

On 2/11/2019 at 9:37 PM, starburst said:

Chieftain is certainly busted as fuck

Besides, I'd think that "other" busted classes means he's implying Onis are busted.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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3 hours ago, starburst said:

The one thing to watch out on Onis is Skill, which is significantly lower than that of other busted classes.
Luck will also be bad, but it is easier to manage. While Ninjas also have awful Luck, they hardy ever hit adjacent enemies. Onis, on the other hand, will be hitting adjacent enemies most of the time. So, just assume that your Oni will never dodge and pay attention to high crit enemies --Oni has stupid Defence, though.

Who is marrying Effie? If Silas is, go Cavalier first for Elbow Room and Shelter, then go Archer.

Thankfully Corrin has decent Skill and Blacksmith gives a high bonus and growth.

Whoever marries Effie is irrelevant. I'm changing them to their Hoshidan classes and calling it done. I'm even tempted to remove their Nohrian skills but I haven't decided yet.

I'll probably marry Effie to Silas to get the early Partner Seal. I also haven't decided who is marrying Azura; Silas would be a waste. Maybe Niles since he doesn't need the extra damage.

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1 hour ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

I dunno, I thought it was saying otherwise. Maybe @starburst knows why?

He was saying OS is busted because it's a bolt axe + tome using general without the armor flag.

It's not as good in CQ as it is in BR/Rev because 0 damage is bad here, the growths are somewhat awkward, the skills are absolute piss, and it's not really stellar on the lategame mapskip boss rush, but as a finishing combat class it's up there with MK and MN. Not quite Sorc/BE power (IE perfect killing machines), yet still significantly above the assumed power curve.

Ignore Levant, he does this in every single thread.

Edited by joshcja

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Oni Savage and Blacksmith aren't stellar but Chieftain is pretty solid. The Seal skills work better on a ninja.

One of my favorite gimmick builds is MN Rinkah with 3 seals. Ultimate debuffer even with 0 damage. :)

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1 hour ago, joshcja said:

He was saying OS is busted because it's a bolt axe + tome using general without the armor flag.

This.

 

1 hour ago, joshcja said:

It's not as good in CQ as it is in BR/Rev because 0 damage is bad here, the growths are somewhat awkward, the skills are absolute piss, and it's not really stellar on the lategame mapskip boss rush, but as a finishing combat class it's up there with MK and MN.

I agree. The thing is that Johnnie wanted an all-Hoshidian re-class in Conquest. 

And you are right about the zero damage being counterproductive. On one occasion, I had L1 Oni Chieftains Odin and Cornwall in Ch 17, and the enemies would just ignore them. They would rather face GK Sophie/ Silas than mess with the Onis. Annoying.

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17 hours ago, starburst said:

And you are right about the zero damage being counterproductive. On one occasion, I had L1 Oni Chieftains Odin and Cornwall in Ch 17, and the enemies would just ignore them. They would rather face GK Sophie/ Silas than mess with the Onis. Annoying.

In 17 in particular, taking 0 damage is quite useful. It lets you use a fast bow user to take on whole packs of enemy ninjas in one enemy phase. Other setups using Calamity Gate or a strong Hand Axe user often end up being slower, and other 1-2 range weapons like Javelins involve a lot more risk.

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2 hours ago, Zoran said:

In 17 in particular, taking 0 damage is quite useful. It lets you use a fast bow user to take on whole packs of enemy ninjas in one enemy phase. Other setups using Calamity Gate or a strong Hand Axe user often end up being slower, and other 1-2 range weapons like Javelins involve a lot more risk.

I have never had a Sniper or Bow Knight taking zero damage from the Ninjas; and even if they did, they would start taking damage after the first hit and they usually have lower HP. But I am sure that it would work.
My comment was more about moves involving baits, which do not work if the bait takes zero damage.

When are you going to upload more videos? Come on!

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Decided to marry Arthur to Azura. HP +5 would be useful on Shigure, I think. Niles is going to marry Mozu since he needs Elbow Room.

Going to go with Corrin, Jakob, Niles, Kaze, Effie, Silas, Azura, Elise, Camilla, Shigure, Midori for a main team. Camilla is a dread fighter for now, I may marry her to Kaze.

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18 hours ago, starburst said:

I have never had a Sniper or Bow Knight taking zero damage from the Ninjas; and even if they did, they would start taking damage after the first hit and they usually have lower HP. But I am sure that it would work.
My comment was more about moves involving baits, which do not work if the bait takes zero damage.

When are you going to upload more videos? Come on!

Haha, I should clarify, I meant having a fat oni savage or someone else with huge defense and a hand axe is helpful. The bow user's not supposed to be taking zero. That would be counterproductive!

I've been tinkering with slightly different plans for using the resources in the early chapters for my full recruitment challenge run (basically, testing which forges I actually need, and figuring out exactly how extravagantly I can spend resources on the children I’ll eventually recruit), so I haven't gotten around to making more videos.

Lately, solving the problems of maximizing support gains and keeping all my units on-level has been more interesting to me than efficiency-oriented stuff, so I might make more videos aimed at that. I’ve done that challenge run all the way through before, and now I’m trying to optimize it very carefully.

 

I figured out that you can recruit Camilla!Sophie after Chapter 20 with enough power right out of the box to one-shot the Stoneborn on Chapter 21 with the Blessed Lance. There are easier ways to win this map played straight (royal Malig Knights with Lightning come to mind), but the build is so cool that I really want to do it. I think I can scrounge together enough resources to build everything shown here at once.

AF71A3D5-47B2-4479-A2F6-B0280C3377B8.thumb.jpeg.678a7500b84c897f0eb14e16b6811dab.jpeg

  • Shigure inherits Rally Res and Voice of Peace
  • Dwyer inherits Inspiration and Voice of Peace
  • Forrest inherits Malefic Aura & Live to Serve or Lifetaker & Tomebreaker/Demoiselle (if I can level Leo enough)
  • Ignatius gets Wary Fighter and Elbow Room
  • Percy gets Movement +1 and Quick Draw
  • Siegbert gets Sol and Axefaire
  • Midori inherits Poison Strike and Strength +2
  • Nina inherits HP +5 and Lifetaker
  • Ophelia inherits Seal Magic and Lunge (unless I send Odin through samurai instead of dumping extra seals on Elise)
  • Soleil gets HP +5 and Strength +2
  • Sophie gets Sol and Trample
  • Velouria gets Quick Draw and Profiteer
  • Ophelia!Kana (DM talent) is mini Ophelia and inherits Trample & Tomefaire
Edited by Zoran

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1 hour ago, Zoran said:

Haha, I should clarify, I meant having a fat oni savage or someone else with huge defense and a hand axe is helpful. The bow user's not supposed to be taking zero. That would be counterproductive!

Erm, is this in the context of chapter 17? Because I think ninjas would attack anyway even if they did no damage to weaken you and/or hit you with Poison Strike.

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Erm, is this in the context of chapter 17? Because I think ninjas would attack anyway even if they did no damage to weaken you and/or hit you with Poison Strike.

The don’t attack if you can counterattack and they read 0 damage.

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1 hour ago, Zoran said:

I've been tinkering with slightly different plans for using the resources in the early chapters for my full recruitment challenge run (basically, testing which forges I actually need, and figuring out exactly how extravagantly I can spend resources on the children I’ll eventually recruit), so I haven't gotten around to making more videos.

Aw, man! We are currently playing inverse campaigns. Ha ha ha.

After various so-close-to-the-end restarts, I just finished Chapter 26 of Conquest Lunatic using ten units only, with no ‘backpacks’ and no pre-promotes. And then you come with this Latin American wedding idea, where everyone and their pets are invited to. Geez.

Great, informative table, mate. I would never try your run, but it is definitely worth keeping as a detailed reference.

Where did you get the format from? Is it a pretty spreadsheet, or are you using some application?

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Just finished Chapter 12, which is usually one of the more difficult for me. It was a complete cakewalk. I'm honestly finding the early game easier than usual.

Still grinding supports. The only ones not in their Hoshidan class are Niles and Silas.

Going into Chapter 13 I have Oni Savage Corrin, Oni Chieftain Jakob, Falcon Knight Elise, Archer Effie, Ninja Kaze, Dread Fighter Camilla and Spear Fighter Haitaka. Everyone is at or near promotion, so I'll probably start after the next map. I'm planning to recruit Shigure and Midori soon with Arthur and Camilla as their parents. I may use Percy as a pegasus but it'll depend on his stats.

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I'd say he still remains solid without reclassify. He still remains a solid debuffer, Tomebreaker makes for the best magekilling and Butler/Maid is the only class that can S-Rank staves.

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7 minutes ago, Johnnie said:

I'd say he still remains solid without reclassify. He still remains a solid debuffer, Tomebreaker makes for the best magekilling and Butler/Maid is the only class that can S-Rank staves.

So, can we all agree that he would be a solid D, then? [runs]

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