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How did Marth get to Talys?


Ninjato
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Altea and Talys are literally on complete opposite sides of the freaking map, after leaving Altea he'd have to sail through Gra-Dolhr controlled waters and either sail around Archanea or travel through; doesn't seem like the best idea given that, if I recall correctly, it was being invaded at the time given the continental war Medeus started. I mean Jesus Marth's perilous journey TO Talys could be a game all on it's own, it's a miracle be made it with a just a handful of knights.

Edit: I just looked at the map again and Altea is completely surrounded by belligerent countries! I never noticed this before somehow but you've got Grust to the Southwest, Khadein to the North, Gra to the East and Dolhr/Macedon to the south, wow...

Edited by Ninjato
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  • Marth's group traveled via waters from the very beginning of their journey, which is shown in the prologue of SD.  This means they will not go through any enemy territory.  At worst, they'll have to stop into ports along the way, but they aren't going through land to get to their destination.
  • It's implied the continent is still heavily engulfed in war when Marth's leaving.  This means the vast majority of aggressors are still fighting in Pales.  As was demonstrated in Path of Radiance, war does not reach smaller towns until after the big cities are taken.  Port Town Warren, for example, would be quite a safe haven for Marth's ship to stop in at, and it's roughly halfway between Altea and Talys.  The only ports that would be controlled are the ones within the immediate vicinity of Gra.
  • Khadein and Orleans were still neutral and untouched by the war when Marth was fleeing.  Khadein was only taken over by Gharnef after the war settled a bit, and Orleans was only attacked just before Marth arrived to unite his forces with Nyna.  If he couldn't have traveled all the way through sea, he could've safely traveled through the two nations (or just through Orleans), reach a port, and sail away much more easily to Talys, likely only having to stop into Lefcandy (which would definitely have only been taken over after Pales was taken first).
  • The fact that he had so few knights with him was actually an advantage.  If he was traveling with a giant army, he would've been easily picked out and entrenched along his journey.  But because he had only enough to fill up one ship, he could afford to travel light.  Less time spent at ports, able to travel between ports faster, and much less likely he'd be noticed by enemies.
  • And lastly there's the fact that Altea technically was only at conflict with Gra in the beginning.  Of course, they were going to assist Archanea in fending off the rest of the continent, but Gra intercepted the main force before they could even make their intentions known to the world.  Gra is a small country like Altea, so they wouldn't have been able to properly seek out Marth while also assisting the war effort with Grust, Doluna, and Macedon.

So all things considered, it's rather easy to see how Marth could've slipped past everyone in all the confusion.

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Ah that makes sense.

16 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Marth's group traveled via waters from the very beginning of their journey, which is shown in the prologue of SD.  This means they will not go through any enemy territory.  At worst, they'll have to stop into ports along the way, but they aren't going through land to get to their destination.

To this point, I originally thought that this very reason was how Marth escaped so easily, but as I stated in the post Marth would've had to sail past Gra, I imagine these nations have fleets, especially the islands who need them the most. I assumed Gra ships would've intercepted Marth at some point which is why I was a bit skeptical, but it's possible Gra either hadn't deployed enough ships or Marth likely went the long way past Grust who wouldn't really care about Marth given your other point about how Gra and Altea were technically only at war with each other at this point.

Edited by Ninjato
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3 minutes ago, Ninjato said:

To this point, I originally thought that this very reason was how Marth escaped so easily, but as I stated in the post Marth would've had to sail past Gra, I imagine these nations have fleets, especially the islands who need them the most.

I don't remember the game ever implying any of the nations have proper navies.  They have ships, sure, but it seems to me like most combatants are trained only in land combat.  Also, there's the fact that Gra actually thought they did have Marth due to the diversion deployed by Frey (canonically).  By the time they discovered the ruse, Marth was long gone.

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14 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I don't remember the game ever implying any of the nations have proper navies.  They have ships, sure, but it seems to me like most combatants are trained only in land combat

Oh I was just making an assumption really, given that we know Valm and Plegia have proper navies in the future I don't think it's to far fetched of an idea. But you are correct however that the nations of Archanea (and just about every FE title really) seem to have armies trained only or primarily for land combat. Outside of Awakening I can only think of Hoshido and Nohr as two other exceptions but I'm on the fence about that as well, in Birthright it seems implied the Hoshidans are simply using a transport while in Conquest a fleet seems to be implied but it could've been apart of Nestra's Navy rather than Nohr.

Edited by Ninjato
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If Crusader Kings has taught me anything is that naval combat doesn't exist. Ships pass each other even if they belong to countries that are currently at war with each other.

Jokes aside, my guess on the matter is support the idea that they probably only sailed up to Aurelis, to avoid passing around Dohlr and currently-a-battlefield Archanea, then take another ship on the other side to reach Talys. Also, I'd think that despite being island nations, Altea and Gra might not really have that much of a military fleet. Chances are as well that the ship Marth took wasn't the only one that left the small kingdom. By the time Gra's forces found out about the decoy, by the time it would reach Gra proper to start searching the ships and mobilize their ships, it might be too late. Or, Marth simply took on a disguise during the journey.

That'd be my take on the matter. Oh, in case they did sailed around Archanea, don't forget about neutral Pyrathis. One thing was Marth marching with an army, but mere ships carrying refugees? The manakete King would probably be more lenient on that.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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Back in ye olde era of NES storytelling, they probably weren't thinking too much about making things logical, or explaining them well.

 

32 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I don't remember the game ever implying any of the nations have proper navies.  They have ships, sure, but it seems to me like most combatants are trained only in land combat.  Also, there's the fact that Gra actually thought they did have Marth due to the diversion deployed by Frey (canonically).  By the time they discovered the ruse, Marth was long gone.

Well neither Archanea game has ship battles. Gaiden had a ton, but none in Archanea. Perhaps they weren't suited for sea combat indeed. Given the relative smallness of the waters, perhaps they didn't find it necessary when there is always land in sight?

Archanea's plentitude and centrality of waterways, unique among FE worlds, is strangely underemphasized in the games.

 

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

Port Town Warren, for example, would be quite a safe haven for Marth's ship to stop in at, and it's roughly halfway between Altea and Talys.

The game even makes it clear that, probably by being peripheral, it was able to avoid a direct Dolhrian hand years later.

Port Warren, a harbor town known for commerce. Coin alone kept the town free and they paid Doluna dearly in taxes to preserve their autonomy

If it wasn't further away, I'm not sure if Dolhr would have accepted this compromise.

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The OVA took a different turn by having Elice hand down her tiara to Marth, and then use her Warp staff to whisk him along with Jagen and Ogma away to Talys. Props for showing us how Marth got his tiara, but in this day and age we'd probably expect more creative explanations for how he escaped than just being Warped to safety.

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On 12/22/2018 at 1:44 PM, Ninjato said:

Oh I was just making an assumption really, given that we know Valm and Plegia have proper navies in the future I don't think it's to far fetched of an idea. But you are correct however that the nations of Archanea (and just about every FE title really) seem to have armies trained only or primarily for land combat. Outside of Awakening I can only think of Hoshido and Nohr as two other exceptions but I'm on the fence about that as well, in Birthright it seems implied the Hoshidans are simply using a transport while in Conquest a fleet seems to be implied but it could've been apart of Nestra's Navy rather than Nohr.

Valm and Plegia are also 1000 years or so into the future, so it is a bit far fetched to assume they had navies. They probably only had fishing + trade ships. No nation was mentioned to have a grand naval force, so none of them probably had one. Not that it was really needed, since all of the nations were connected by land. The only exception was Macedon, which had wyverns to fly over the channel separating it from the rest of the continent.

Although they are both Medieval, Awakening does seem to be in more of a Renaissance era judging by some things. Their attire is much more modern than Marth's timeline, there are less countries (there are far more medieval countries than there are modern countries because areas tend to get unified over time- Germany and China are examples of this), there is mention of navies, and there is more attention to the arts. By Chrom's time, there seems to have been many advancements.

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13 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Valm and Plegia are also 1000 years or so into the future, so it is a bit far fetched to assume they had navies. They probably only had fishing + trade ships. No nation was mentioned to have a grand naval force, so none of them probably had one. Not that it was really needed, since all of the nations were connected by land. The only exception was Macedon, which had wyverns to fly over the channel separating it from the rest of the continent.

Yeah I can see that, I figure for the most part that the nations separate from the mainland would want at least a small naval force to defend from Pirates for one thing if nothing else. And to perhaps at least have some way to intercept a possible invading force, given that Marth seemed to have the ability to just waltz into Macedon, Gra, and Grust with virtually no resistance on the sea itself, you'd figure someone would be like "Hey, wouldn't it be a good idea to, ya know, arm some of our ships and try to sink the army of heavy plate armor wearing invaders?"

Edit: On that note I just thought of how funny Marth's reaction would be to having Grust or Gra coming at him with Ballistae attached to large imposing ships. Perhaps have a chapter similar to the Winter Solstice episode in ATLA where Marth has to break through a heavily armed blockade to reach his next destination.

13 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Although they are both Medieval, Awakening does seem to be in more of a Renaissance era judging by some things. Their attire is much more modern than Marth's timeline, there are less countries (there are far more medieval countries than there are modern countries because areas tend to get unified over time- Germany and China are examples of this), there is mention of navies, and there is more attention to the arts. By Chrom's time, there seems to have been many advancements.

I noticed this as well, that was very interesting imo. I just assumed the lesser countries was due to the whole two continents thing going on, may be the out of universe explanation but looking back on it in universe it's an explanation I had overlooked it seems.

Edited by Ninjato
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13 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Valm and Plegia are also 1000 years or so into the future, so it is a bit far fetched to assume they had navies. They probably only had fishing + trade ships. No nation was mentioned to have a grand naval force, so none of them probably had one. Not that it was really needed, since all of the nations were connected by land. The only exception was Macedon, which had wyverns to fly over the channel separating it from the rest of the continent.

Actually half of the continent doesn't seem connected by land. Altea, Gra, Grust and Talys are all island nations and Macedon and Dolhr also form their own landmass separated from the continent. Archenea would probably be the continent most required to have a navy.

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6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Actually half of the continent doesn't seem connected by land. Altea, Gra, Grust and Talys are all island nations and Macedon and Dolhr also form their own landmass separated from the continent. Archenea would probably be the continent most required to have a navy.

My bad. I must have mixed up Marth's continent with the one in Awakening, which changed the map.

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58 minutes ago, Luis Liberato said:

He got warp staffed by Elisse? Doesn't that happen in the prologue, though it can be argued that it would only get him out of the castle

In the games? No, she just tells him to run. Prologue-II is about heading for the castle exit.

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