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Decerd

May I ask why some Fire Emblem fans act like Awakening and Fates were the worst thing to happen to the series?

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I don't understand why some people act like Awakening and Fates are the devil's products and they ruined everything about Fire Emblem. If it weren't for Awakening, this series would be dead alongside the likes of Advance Wars, F-Zero, Earthbound, and Golden Sun, and while Fates's storytelling isn't superb, I think it's gameplay and characters are solid. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but were Awakening and Fates really that bad to them?

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I'm not about to speak for "some people" since I don't know who or what you're referring to. But do you think these games are somehow above criticism? And if so, why?

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2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm not about to speak for "some people" since I don't know who or what you're referring to. But do you think these games are somehow above criticism? And if so, why?

It’s not that these games are above criticism cause they most certainly are not. He’s referring to kind of people who just seem to look at nothing but the games’ flaws without any attempt to give credit to what the games do right. Like these people act as if awakening/fates are nothing but a blight on the franchise and have ZERO redeeming qualities which is just close minded if you ask me

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Because games like Fates and Awakening have fanservice to a point which previous entries did not have. However, you are right: it was exactly this aspect which made the games sell.

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The series is dead, unless you think a brand name is the only thing that matters about a series.

Awakening and Fates turned Fire Emblem from basically being the fantasy version of Mobile Suit Gundam into being the fantasy version of Eromanga Sensei. Needless to say, I do not believe those two things are quite interchangeable.

Edited by BrightBow

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And here we go with the fan service arguments. I honestly do not see the problem with a little fanservice here or there. I mean in fates I get it. The fanservice got waaay to out of hand but why do people say awakening has too much fanservice? I mean as far as I can tell it's not much more than what can be found in the rest of the series and is (tharja and nowi aside) relatively harmless. I mean yeah you can romance whoever you want with your avatar and you get a cute little confession CG with the character telling you they love and all but again I don't see the issue here. I mean it doesn't detract from the overall experience. It doesn't make the characters, story, or gameplay worse by being there and in fact adds to the overall experience. So I don't see the issue with fanservice in awakening it's fine. It makes sense, it doesn't detract from anything(tharja aside anyway), and is overall harmless.

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12 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

And here we go with the fan service arguments. I honestly do not see the problem with a little fanservice here or there. I mean in fates I get it. The fanservice got waaay to out of hand but why do people say awakening has too much fanservice? I mean as far as I can tell it's not much more than what can be found in the rest of the series and is (tharja and nowi aside) relatively harmless. I mean yeah you can romance whoever you want with your avatar and you get a cute little confession CG with the character telling you they love and all but again I don't see the issue here. I mean it doesn't detract from the overall experience. It doesn't make the characters, story, or gameplay worse by being there and in fact adds to the overall experience. So I don't see the issue with fanservice in awakening it's fine. It makes sense, it doesn't detract from anything(tharja aside anyway), and is overall harmless.

Seriously? This is a series that hasn't even used boob armor before. Now it shoves a female characters panties in your face every time they murder someone.

Still, this reminds me of the innocent days when I believed the series was still the same under the crappy female character designs. Then the game burned thousands of people alive just for another chance to suck my Avatar's dick some more.

Edited by BrightBow

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I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of Awakening and Fates, but that's because I hate the story and characters. It's true that it did revive the series, but some didn't like the direction it took, which can be understandable.

As far as those kind of people who say "Awakening and Fates are the Devil and so are you if you like it!!", don't pay attention to em. There idiots who represent a very small part of the fandom and don't deserve to be paid attention too.

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48 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm not about to speak for "some people" since I don't know who or what you're referring to. But do you think these games are somehow above criticism? And if so, why?

It's true the games are not above any kind of criticism, but I do not understand why some fans of the older games will act like Awakening and Fates killed the series stone dead and it will never be good again.

31 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

The series is dead, unless you think a brand name is the only thing that matters about a series.

Awakening and Fates turned Fire Emblem from basically being the fantasy version of Mobile Suit Gundam into being the fantasy version of Eromanga Sensei. Needless to say, I do not believe those two things are quite interchangeable.

People like this guy.

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My first Fire Emblem was Awakening so I don't know for how many people I speak, but I think that this are the main reasons why they're often critisized.

The focus on shipping: Fire Emblem has always had shipping as a mechanic but never with this much detail on the writing part. Many people think that it has become the main focus of these games and that characters are nowadays just designed to appeal to a certain audience (think characters like Nowi & Camilla). If you aren't part of this audience it will quickly annoy you.

The new fans and the attention they get: Fire Emblem has always had influences from anime, but recent games took much more inspiration of anime and not in a subtle way. This attracts certain people to it who can be quite obnoxious. While this doesn't allow someone to throw hate at people for liking Awakening/fates it can be an explanation. Also since this audience is likely bigger then most older fans so they will get more attention. This can be seen in characters like Faye in sov or the amount of representation the new games get in Feh/Few. Older fans will feel neglected and will become bitter to the newer games that get more attention. 

The story: While fire emblem didn't always have the best story (sacred stones had a pretty boring story imo) it was at least competent. Awakening while having some good moments is pretty bad overall (especially after chapter 11). Fates is in my eyes a perfect example of how not to write a story. Long story short, the new games didn't even reach the pretty low standards most people expect from a fire emblem game.

They're new: newer installments often get a lot more criticism in fanbases. Want a good example? Star Wars.

What this all boils down to is that many old fans think that awakening and fates have a to huge focus on appealing to anime fanatics and forget to be interesting games. I have some personal issues with these games (particulary fates) but those aren't a general consensus. I also don't think that they get all that much undeserved hate here. Sure they get criticized but every other game does and people aren't attacked for liking these games. I'm certain that when Three Houses comes out it will get just as much criticism as Awakening and Fates.

23 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Seriously? This is a series that hasn't even used boob armor before. Now it shoves a female characters panties in your face every time they murder someone.

Didn't Petrine & Vaida have cleavages in their armour? But those where mainly official art and not in game if I remember correctly.

35 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

I mean as far as I can tell it's not much more than what can be found in the rest of the series and is (tharja and nowi aside)

Doesn't the fact that these characters exist within the game say that they focus more on fanservice? Also you have Tiki & Aversa and the whole dlc thing which they sexualize some characters that weren't sexualized within the game itself. I would also say Olivia but she is a dancer and dancers where always an excuse for fanservice.

Edited by LJwalhout

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18 minutes ago, LJwalhout said:

Didn't Petrine & Vaida have cleavages in their armour? But those where mainly official art and not in game if I remember correctly.

I was thinking of using the term "boob socks" but I figured I should avoid it since it doesn't come up that often. Like, the two of them show a little cleave but their armor doesn't wrap around their boobs like for example Effie does. Though Petrine most certainly comes close.

Even then that's a design that's picked for her personally. It's not forced on anyone else with the same class with no concern on how it fits their characterization.

Edited by BrightBow

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1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Even then that's a design that's picked for them personally. It's not forced on anyone else with the same class with no concern on how it fits their characterization.

You got me there. Suddenly I remember all the needless fanservice on characters like Nyx, Kagero & Orochi and the fact that almost every female character has a big bust or has a personality in which they're insecure about their small bust. It's like how real life has those dump rules on how a women should look and they should change themselves if they're different.

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Fire Emblem was about the story and gameplay, which means it wanted to have a good story with good maps to play on and good strategies to use. However, people did not want that. Not everyone finds strategic games interesting. People do like anime waifus, which is exactly what was introduced in Awakening and expanded on Fates. The newer entries do retain aspects of the previous ones, that is, they are still tactical role-playing games, but it is overshadowed by the fanservice. Older fans did not like this approach and were disgusted by it because it changed how Fire Emblem was.

Most people who play Fire Emblem nowadays play it for the anime waifus, characters, and the shippings they can do. The developers added fanservice which sold, thus saving the franchise. However, it did not only save it, it changed it as well.

Edited by Manstein
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1 minute ago, Manstein said:

Most people who play Fire Emblem nowadays play it for the anime waifus, characters, and the shippings they can do. The developers added fanservice which sold, thus saving the franchise. However, it did not only saved it, it changed it as well.

Yes, because obviously you know most people who play fire emblem.

Personally the 3DS area is my favourite Era of Fire emblem, and I wouldn't really pay those people that are all like ''Oh man IS sold their soul to the devil for creating Awakening and Fates!'' much attention. Just enjoy what you like!

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4 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Yes, because obviously you know most people who play fire emblem.

Excuse me? Do you not agree this is what people like when you see the community? I do not think whether that is true or not is up to debate. There is a reason these things saved the franchise. Do you seriously think people look for a tactic game in Awakening or Fates?

Edited by Manstein
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47 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Seriously? This is a series that hasn't even used boob armor before. Now it shoves a female characters panties in your face every time they murder someone.

Still, this reminds me of the innocent days when I believed the series was still the same under the crappy female character designs. Then the game burned thousands of people alive just for another chance to suck my Avatar's dick some more.

I will admit the armour designs are stupid but is there any reason to get so worked up over such a small detail. I mean seriously you're just nitpicking at this point.

32 minutes ago, LJwalhout said:

Doesn't the fact that these characters exist within the game say that they focus more on fanservice? Also you have Tiki & Aversa and the whole dlc thing which even sexualizes some characters that weren't sexualized within the game itself. I would also say Olivia but she is a dancer and dancers where always an excuse for fanservice.

Tiki? what fanservice? I mean yeah big boobs but that's it. Breasts are a natural part of the female body so what's so wrong about character having big breasts. I don't see the issue here. With aversa, it makes sense. I mean she's supposed to be the sexy seductress villain type so of course she's gonna have a design like that. The DLC is completely harmless. For one you don't HAVE to buy it and secondly what's so wrong about a simple beach DLC? I mean it's a beach and as such you're obviously gonna see characters in bathing suits that's just a fact of life. I mean it doesn't ruin the story or characters so I fail to see the issue. In fact it actually adds to the characterization of these characters because now we know how they react to situations like this. It's a fun harmless little side adventure that you can buy if you so choose. I mean it doesn't ruin the game by existing so what's wrong with it? the fact that it exists? Well then that's just close minded. Tharja I will grant is a very poor implementation of Fan service because it serves no real purpose other than to pander. It doesn't add anything interesting to tharja's character but in fact makes her character look worse because it just feels so out of place and exploitative. 

My question is why is fan service such a boogeyman to people? if a dev wants to put a sexy character in his game why not let him? What's wrong with that? I mean so long as it doesn't detract from the game at all I don't see the issue. There's nothing wrong with fanservice in it of itself. The problem lies with how it's implemented.

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14 minutes ago, Manstein said:

Excuse me? Do you not agree this is what people like when you see the community? I do not think whether that is true or not is up to debate. There is a reason these things saved the franchise. Do you seriously think people look for a tactic game in Awakening or Fates?

Well, I looked for a good game in Awakening and Fates, which I got with the former and kind of with the latter. So Awakening and Fates gives you the option to date "waifus". Who cares? I didn't play them because they could let me date "Muh Waifus", I play them because I like them. The whole dating thing is something that just happened to come with it. Also, I think you might making a good amount of assumptions when you say the community as a whole likes the idea of the dating mechanics.

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3 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Well, I looked for a good game in Awakening and Fates, which I got with the former and kind of with the latter. So Awakening and Fates gives you the option to date "waifus". Who cares? I didn't play them because they could let me date "Muh Waifus", I play them because I like them. The whole dating thing is something that just happened to come with it. Also, I think you might making a good amount of assumptions when you say the community as a whole likes the idea of the dating mechanics.

exactly and it's not like it's obligatory 

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The games have their flaws, but then again so do older games of the franchise (basically every FE game, with Genealogy, BiB, SS, RD, SD of the games yet to get or already have remakes being the weakest next to Awakening/Fates). If you ask me then I think there's a disconnect with the games before it for a lack of a better wording.

Those critical of Fates/Awakening, be it with constructive criticism or outright hatred, have experienced other games of the franchise and are more familiar with how the games leading up to Awakening were like. Call it culture shock if you will. Not that dramatic, but the direction in Awakening did raise eyebrows is some places.

I've even seen people whose favorite game is Awakening despite playing the entire franchise, but are critical of it nevertheless.

I do think some of the people responsible for making the newer entries in the franchise like Toshiyuki do/say questionable things.

Edited by silveraura25

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18 minutes ago, Manstein said:

Excuse me? Do you not agree this is what people like when you see the community? I do not think whether that is true or not is up to debate. There is a reason these things saved the franchise. Do you seriously think people look for a tactic game in Awakening or Fates?

No I do not agree. I didn't play Fire emblem Awakening and Fates because they have so many waifus and anime fanfiction and whatnot. I played it because it's an RPG, and it's part of my favourite series. I think you're getting a bit rude here by just casually calling people who play and like these games out for just playing it for anime or their precious waifus. Get your head out of your ass and think about this logically. 

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Yeah I've also was annoyed by how much hate FE13 and FE14 get around here, like if someone who's new to this series saw all of that, he would think those games are bad, which they aren't even close to being that.

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