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An Analysis of Thracia 776: Realism


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As a fan of Fire Emblem who has seen and played almost every main series title, I have seen for myself just how engaging and difficult some of the main entries can be. However, everything I thought I knew about the series' staple gameplay and even story details were thrown out the window when I booted up Fire Emblem 5: Thracia 776 for the first time. And then Thracia 776 told me to either git good or git lost. I played this game immediately after I finished Genealogy of the Holy War because I wanted to experience the second entry of the Jugdral Saga. The sheer difficulty curve compared to other entries in the series hit me like a truck and it took a little while (and a few file resets) to get the hang of the game's many interesting (and slightly bs) mechanics. However, as I near the end of the game, I think the difficulty with which everyone associates Thracia 776 works its way marvelously into the story.

For starters, you take control of the young prince of Leonster on the run, Leif, who is hiding from an empire that appears to be almost impossible to defeat. Right off the bat, players realize that the odds are not in their favor. This is later realized with mechanics such as Capturing and buying weapons and items at shops. Given that you are leading (at first) a very small and somewhat pathetic Liberation Army in hopes of toppling Reydrick as well as House Friege, it is natural that arming and supplying would not be easy. I realized this immediately when I saw the asking prices for weapons. The prices were ludicrous and I couldn't even buy an iron sword. Combine this with the fact that I have been capturing enemies and STEALING their weapons, and I truly realized how realistic this game is compared to others in the series. Because Leif is leading a puny band of rebels across Thracia, dodging imperial troops and enemies that could turn his army into mincemeat, and even escaping prisons, I should have known that arming my troops wouldn't be easy! You have no money, so the only to get weapons is take the ones your enemies are wielding! As a player, I hated these mechanics and wanted to delete my save data and never play the game again. But it terms of the story, I love how the development team implemented these gameplay mechanics to match Leif's current situation. Just another reason why the Jugdral Saga is my favorite.

What do you all think? Are there other Fire Emblem games in the series that match this sort of idea? I would love to hear other opinions and thoughts!

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Overall it's a pretty accurate description though there are other things like dismounting. Thracia, despite some of the odd mechanics it has, is a rather realistic depiction of FE. I don't think there's another game that really does try to have that kind of gameplay angle. One of the reasons I like it. Though some things like FoW and staves missing isn't exactly what I consider to be strong aspects of it

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I've never played Thracia 776, but that sounds pretty cool. I actually think the other Fire Emblem games are pretty disconnected between narrative and gameplay. In most of the games you're leading a small band of rebels and then end up barging through empires of soldiers. Which is fine, the games are still darn fun, but now I want to play Thracia! Seems like it'd be fun to actually feel like a small band of rebels. I will say that the narratives and gameplay aren't always disconnected. In Shadows of Valentia I thought you had enough units that you could feel like an actual army--even if, y'know, there were way more soldiers in the cutscenes. In Binding Blade/Sword of Seals, it made sense to be so small because you were the allied army of a small nation consisting of several crippled fiefdoms. But how do you invade Bern with such a small force--alone? At least in both that game and Sacred Stones you have help from larger nations--Bern is in a war with Etruria during your invasion during Sword of Seals, and Grado expended many of its armies hunting the sacred stones and battling Frelia.

All in all, I think they go back and forth between united narrative and gameplay, and, y'know--the Shepherds destroying Valm practically on their own in Awakening.

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12 minutes ago, Sand55 said:

I've never played Thracia 776, but that sounds pretty cool. I actually think the other Fire Emblem games are pretty disconnected between narrative and gameplay. In most of the games you're leading a small band of rebels and then end up barging through empires of soldiers. Which is fine, the games are still darn fun, but now I want to play Thracia!

I would (as I would with any Fire Emblem game) definitely recommend it! Similar to what you said, the idea of playing as a group of rebels in an apparent bleak scenario was very interesting to me as well when I first heard of the story. On that note, if you want to play it, I would suggest playing Genealogy of the Holy War first as there many key story aspects that take place in that game that are key to the plot of Thracia 776. But if you don't care about story, then by all means, give it a try! There are a lot of annoying mechanics, but the game also did a lot things that are now staple for the series. I believe Gaiden chapters were first introduced in this game for example.  

Edited by FE_McFly
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2 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Though some things like FoW and staves missing isn't exactly what I consider to be strong aspects of it

I 100% agree that Thracia had some really stupid mechanics. The first time I saw that healing staves could miss was a moment of sheer confusion. But yet Silence, Sleep, etc. could seemingly never miss for me, provided the staff wielder's magic stat was higher than the opponent's.

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Between your OP and Silveraura's few additions, I think that sums up my thoughts on Thracia quite well, though I do enjoy dismounting from an aesthetic PoV. Just wish they kept their weapon ranks. As much as I hate to sound like a nostalgist since I really do like the majority of new FE games, it's little things like these that I really miss about Kaga's involvement. His design decisions were occasionally questionable, but it felt like they always tied into the stories quite well and were interesting on a basic level if not always implemented in a balanced fashion. Capturing and fatigue are two mechanics I still wish would come back in a meaningful way.

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Genealogy and Thracia 776 make interesting partners.

Genealogy is all about large-scale, continental warfare. Every castle you take is literally its own kingdom, and you're fighting through each kingdom's army to get to the castle. The chapters are loooooong and massive, and the flavor text in the game implies all the chapters take place from months to years. Entire Fire Emblem stories could have taken place between two chapters of Genealogy's story.

Then you get to Thracia, and it's about guerilla warfare. It's the smallest conflict in the series, and Leif's army is all about hit and run tactics and raiding strategic outposts of Freege's army. They're desperate and on the run frequently when Freege just flexes a little bit, which helps drive home how scrappy the army is compared to most others in the franchise.

Yet Thracia 776 is the game that set the "modern" FE structure. Every single FE after Thracia(Barring remakes, though even FE12 feels a bit more like this than its original did) feels like Thracia, with their own peculiarities, even though most of their stories are on the scale of Genealogy.

Edited by Slumber
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55 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Genealogy and Thracia 776 make interesting partners.

Genealogy is all about large-scale, continental warfare. Every castle you take is literally its own kingdom, and you're fighting through each kingdom's army to get to the castle. The chapters are loooooong and massive, and the flavor text in the game implies all the chapters take place from months to years. Entire Fire Emblem stories could have taken place between two chapters of Genealogy's story.

Then you get to Thracia, and it's about guerilla warfare. It's the smallest conflict in the series, and Leif's army is all about hit and run tactics and raiding strategic outposts of Freege's army. They're desperate and on the run frequently when Freege just flexes a little bit, which helps drive home how scrappy the army is compared to most others in the franchise.

I haven't play 'em yet myself, but I have noticed and from afar appreciated this difference.

 

One you forgot to mention is the composition of the armies. Genealogy is very heavily blue-bloods, more so than any other game in the franchise. (Fates would be the runner up here, and only on the Hoshidan side, since aren't most Nohrian retainers non-nobles?)

In the first Gen, of 24 PCs, if you exclude Silvia and Chulainn despite their Holy Blood, 14 of the PCs are royalty/nobility. In Gen 2, if you ignore the Subs and go for some fairly conventional pairings like LewynxErinys and ClaudxSilvia, everyone but Finn and Hannibal are nobility or royalty (and even then both of those old men probably are). If you go a little further with your pairings, tossing Lex, Azelle, and Jamke in there, and then make the right 2nd Gen pairings, you end up with a lot of characters who are nobles/royals in 2-3 countries each. It's a little absurd.

Not to mention FE4 introducing Holy Blood means this is a super-elite who are in lore and gameplay a cut above everyone else. They don't just have titles, their fortunate and very rare family histories make them demigods apart from all other human beings.

 

On the other hand, Thracia 776 has a notable lack of nobility and royalty.

The highest you get is Ced, with Leif himself there of course too, plus Nanna and Diarmuid. But that is it for Holy Blooded royals/nobles who actually know their titles and behave accordingly/have others around them behaving accordingly.

Saias has the Holy Blood and knows it, Galzus probably too, but they don't "act like nobles". Because one is a bastard whose possessed half-brother would want dead if he knew the truth, and the other has been exiled from power since probably their childhood. Mareeta and Eyvel have blood, but don't know it and don't act like it. Linoan acts the part, but doesn't know her blood right away.

And mind you, Ced/Galzus/Saias are Gotohs and Diarmuid hasn't much more, their direct aid to the heroes is minimal. And when Ced, the lone character with a Holy Weapon shows up, the game even more than in the last one is making pretty obvious how much he is in his own league. (I wonder if Saias's strategic genius is a gift from Fjalar?)

That is it for the Holy Blooded. And even of them, Linoan is the heir to a city, probably a happy one, but that is it, no duchy, no kingdom. Miranda is the heir to one of the four major kingdoms in the Manster District, but she relatively little in overall Jugdrali status, due to lacking the Blood.

And that is it for the major nobles/royals, the rest are at best retainers. Thracia's cast is very earthly and small fries compared to Genealogy's, it is the war of the common man. Not sure whether it more earthy than other FEs, but the starting crew certainly is.

You have Leif and Finn, the rest of the Chapter 1 playables aren't royals or retainers, and five of whom are bandits. who would certainly rank below mercenaries- to mention PoR's also fairly humble starting team. Yet there, even in PoR Chapter 1, where you only have 4 PCs compared to T766's 8, you're tied or beat when considering Titania and Oscar being former knights of Crimea, (and for beat, it's if you leverage Ike's heritage but don't Eyvel's past).

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54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

On the other hand, Thracia 776 has a notable lack of nobility and royalty.

The highest you get is Ced, with Leif himself there of course too, plus Nanna and Diarmuid. But that is it for Holy Blooded royals/nobles who actually know their titles and behave accordingly/have others around them behaving accordingly.

Saias has the Holy Blood and knows it, Galzus probably too, but they don't "act like nobles". Because one is a bastard whose possessed half-brother would want dead if he knew the truth, and the other has been exiled from power since probably their childhood. Mareeta and Eyvel have blood, but don't know it and don't act like it. Linoan acts the part, but doesn't know her blood right away.

And mind you, Ced/Galzus/Saias are Gotohs and Diarmuid hasn't much more, their direct aid to the heroes is minimal. And when Ced, the lone character with a Holy Weapon shows up, the game even more than in the last one is making pretty obvious how much he is in his own league. (I wonder if Saias's strategic genius is a gift from Fjalar?)

That is it for the Holy Blooded. And even of them, Linoan is the heir to a city, probably a happy one, but that is it, no duchy, no kingdom. Miranda is the heir to one of the four major kingdoms in the Manster District, but she relatively little in overall Jugdrali status, due to lacking the Blood.

And that is it for the major nobles/royals, the rest are at best retainers. Thracia's cast is very earthly and small fries compared to Genealogy's, it is the war of the common man. Not sure whether it more earthy than other FEs, but the starting crew certainly is.

You have Leif and Finn, the rest of the Chapter 1 playables aren't royals or retainers, and five of whom are bandits. who would certainly rank below mercenaries- to mention PoR's also fairly humble starting team. Yet there, even in PoR Chapter 1, where you only have 4 PCs compared to T766's 8, you're tied or beat when considering Titania and Oscar being former knights of Crimea, (and for beat, it's if you leverage Ike's heritage but don't Eyvel's past).

This is mostly true. Some people in Leif's army are people like Hicks, just a simple villager who chose to fight for Leif because Leif saved his son from the Child Hunts. Most of the early game party members, the Fiana Freeblades that make up the early core of Leif's army, are just a tiny militia. Dagdar and Marty specifically used to be common bandits. Leif also recruits the Dandelions, who are just a group of Robin Hood-esque thieves. And then there's Ralph, the dude who's such a normal dude that it's pretty much his defining trait.

Besides the ones you mentioned, there are a few Bluebloods in there. Galzus is explicitly one of the princes of Isaac, and Mareeta would be noble by birth. Both have major Od Blood. Their house was destroyed by the main Isaac family. Eyvel is... an interesting one. She's a noble who was lost as a child, then had trauma-based amnesia which caused her to forget about her birth again. Miranda's the princess of Alster.

There are a bunch of Knights without notable noble blood in their ranks, as well.

The ratio of nobles/knights to commoners is still probably waaaaaaaay lower than most games in the franchise, and you don't really start getting the nobles/knights until about halfway through the game. Then the game kinda starts piling them on.

Edited by Slumber
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I have seen Thracia and have seen how tough it is, and the gameplay integration of their situation is truly something impressive. 

But this is also why I feel that there may be no way that we can get a proper remake for it. There's a chance that such a hard game will end up being downplayed for the sake of newer players. That wouldn't work. If the makers want to make a remake out of this properly to convey the right message, they need to really show the same situation. Of course, this can still be rectified by DLC and such.

Also, I believe that Conquest actually has similar cases, where it isn't that easy to attain resources and income, unlike Birthright, which mirrors how Nohr is a nation that is deprived of the vast resources that Hoshido has. 

Genealogy also does a great job of also showing a nice gameplay integration of story where Holy Weapons are very broken weapons to use, giving huge buffs and such, with Book of Naga giving a total of +80 to its weapon in stat distribution. I wish that they would do something similar with Falchion and the others. 

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I have seen Thracia and have seen how tough it is, and the gameplay integration of their situation is truly something impressive. 

But this is also why I feel that there may be no way that we can get a proper remake for it. There's a chance that such a hard game will end up being downplayed for the sake of newer players. That wouldn't work. If the makers want to make a remake out of this properly to convey the right message, they need to really show the same situation. Of course, this can still be rectified by DLC and such.

Multiple difficulty modes would solve that.  For the easier ones, make items a bit more plentiful or something.  They can always be removed on the harder difficulties.

All I ask is that healing staves don't randomly miss.  I'd rather break my opponent's staves than hope and pray that mine cooperate.  As for the rest of the game. . .sure, bring it.  It's not like the enemy's gonna tell you how to defeat them, so having some relevant surprises is okay.

Edited by eclipse
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FE5 tried to be as most realistic as possible storywise and gameplaywise. The execution was great, but in a very few points it went a bit too far like staff misses, despite I liked the idea behind it.

The only thing which really bothered me is no sure hit and miss. This made this game artifically harder and more luckbased for the player. Oh yeah, and these warptiles in 24x.

But overall FE5 set new measures and is what a modern FE game has to be. Storywise no other part aside of maybe FE9 can build that kind of senseful story. And gameplaywise it took long enough till Tellius to improve a few things.

I really would like to see a remake sometime.

Edited by Necrofantasia
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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Multiple difficulty modes would solve that.  For the easier ones, make items a bit more plentiful or something.  They can always be removed on the harder difficulties.

All I ask is that healing staves don't randomly miss.  I'd rather break my opponent's staves than hope and pray that mine cooperate.  As for the rest of the game. . .sure, bring it.  It's not like the enemy's gonna tell you how to defeat them, so having some relevant surprises is okay.

Oh yeah, missable staves. That's hilarious. XD

Multiple difficulties can definitely be a thing. 

Though I feel that the capture mechanic, while useful, takes something away from the story, being that it removes the concept of death for most enemies. Though some are harder than others, it is theoretically possible to capture the bosses in the chapters and not have to kill them. Meaning even characters that oughta have a form of a grand death like Reinhardt ends up being captured and then released and you have no idea what happens afterward. I feel some opponents should NOT be captured. 

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4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh yeah, missable staves. That's hilarious. XD

Multiple difficulties can definitely be a thing. 

Though I feel that the capture mechanic, while useful, takes something away from the story, being that it removes the concept of death for most enemies. Though some are harder than others, it is theoretically possible to capture the bosses in the chapters and not have to kill them. Meaning even characters that oughta have a form of a grand death like Reinhardt ends up being captured and then released and you have no idea what happens afterward. I feel some opponents should NOT be captured. 

Capturing makes sense in that Leif really holds no grudges against common soldiers, and it makes a good gameplay explanation as to how Leif's army keeps acquiring weapons and supplies by stealing them.

But yeah, people like Reinhardt and Kempf really shouldn't be capturable.

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Capturing makes sense in that Leif really holds no grudges against common soldiers, and it makes a good gameplay explanation as to how Leif's army keeps acquiring weapons and supplies by stealing them.

But yeah, people like Reinhardt and Kempf really shouldn't be capturable.

Sure, capturing the common soldiers is okay. But the bosses, or at the very least specific ones like Reinhardt and Kemph? Not particularly okay with that. Actually, I think you can even capture Veld, the final boss too, which is absurd. 

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Sure, capturing the common soldiers is okay. But the bosses, or at the very least specific ones like Reinhardt and Kemph? Not particularly okay with that. Actually, I think you can even capture Veld, the final boss too, which is absurd. 

The mechanic of Capturing to me is a very interesting idea, but I agree that there should be some form of limitation on who the player can and can not capture. The mechanic adds to the realism of the game, but it can get a bit questionable in some areas, such as the areas you guys have been discussing (capturing Reinhardt, Kempf, etc.). I truly believe that there will be remake of the Jugdral Saga in the near future, so maybe the devs will look back at the things that the original game did wrong.

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2 hours ago, FE_McFly said:

The mechanic of Capturing to me is a very interesting idea, but I agree that there should be some form of limitation on who the player can and can not capture. The mechanic adds to the realism of the game, but it can get a bit questionable in some areas, such as the areas you guys have been discussing (capturing Reinhardt, Kempf, etc.). I truly believe that there will be remake of the Jugdral Saga in the near future, so maybe the devs will look back at the things that the original game did wrong.

It's weird, because the game does place restrictions on who can and can't be captured.

The boss of chapter 8 is a dismounted Wyvern Knight, and you need to capture him alive in order to get the gaiden chapter. But on chapter 16, he mounts his Wyvern, capping his con stat, making him uncapturable, meaning the only way to complete the chapter from then on is to kill him. So clearly there's an intention there, as the devs are using gameplay surrounding the capture mechanic to implement a turn limit.

Why they just wouldn't give Reinhardt, Kempf, and Veld 20 con is beyond me.

Edited by Slumber
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On 12/27/2018 at 9:00 PM, FE_McFly said:

For starters, you take control of the young prince of Leonster on the run, Leif, who is hiding from an empire that appears to be almost impossible to defeat. Right off the bat, players realize that the odds are not in their favor. This is later realized with mechanics such as Capturing and buying weapons and items at shops. Given that you are leading (at first) a very small and somewhat pathetic Liberation Army in hopes of toppling Reydrick as well as House Friege, it is natural that arming and supplying would not be easy. I realized this immediately when I saw the asking prices for weapons. The prices were ludicrous and I couldn't even buy an iron sword. Combine this with the fact that I have been capturing enemies and STEALING their weapons, and I truly realized how realistic this game is compared to others in the series. Because Leif is leading a puny band of rebels across Thracia, dodging imperial troops and enemies that could turn his army into mincemeat, and even escaping prisons, I should have known that arming my troops wouldn't be easy! You have no money, so the only to get weapons is take the ones your enemies are wielding! As a player, I hated these mechanics and wanted to delete my save data and never play the game again. But it terms of the story, I love how the development team implemented these gameplay mechanics to match Leif's current situation. Just another reason why the Jugdral Saga is my favorite.

What do you all think? Are there other Fire Emblem games in the series that match this sort of idea? I would love to hear other opinions and thoughts!

Let's not forget stamina (the army is constantly on the run so the troops tire quickly), escape and defend chapters (fighting against the overwhelming odds) and I believe even the 1-99% hit chance caps play a part here to an extent (nothing is ever certain in a fight to the death). I am also fully here with you that FE 5 goes above and beyond in representing the narrative through gameplay mechanics and that alone makes this game special.

At the same time I don't think every game should match the narrative with gameplay mechanics and vice versa, some games are better off keeping the story and gameplay separate (to a degree, of course). Even more, unless you are gonna go all the way with it, like FE 5 did AND do it well, I think it is better to keep them separate to avoid one or the other feeling forced.

Edited by AwakeningNoob
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4 hours ago, AwakeningNoob said:

Let's not forget stamina (the army is constantly on the run so the troops tire quickly), escape and defend chapters (fighting against the overwhelming odds) and I believe even the 1-99% hit chance caps play a part here to an extent (nothing is ever certain in a fight to the death). I am also fully here with you that FE 5 goes above and beyond in representing the narrative through gameplay mechanics and that alone makes this game special.

The mechanics you mention (Stamina and 1-99% hit chances) are mechanics that I believe will not make an appearance in any upcoming Fire Emblem games (aside from a Thracia 776 remake) simply because of the frustration and anger they have caused some players. I never hated the Stamina feature because I never had too much trouble forming my strategies around it (plus the inclusion of S Drinks made it even less of a burden). I was very frustrated by the 1-99% feature at times (my luck stunk at certain points), but as you said, I believe these features are very special due to their real-world similarities. In real-life, soldiers get tired; it is unavoidable. Especially if they had to travel the distance that Leif and his army traveled (an entire country). Not only that, in real battles, there is no way a soldier would hit every time he/she, for example, swung a sword/axe or shot an arrow. Factors such as nerves, talent with said weapon, etc. would impact their fighting abilities. Thracia 776 did an incredible job of making its warfare-style battles measure up to what real medieval battles with real people fighting would be like. Stamina and 1-99% hit chances may be features that video game players find obnoxious, but they are, to me, what makes Thracia 776 one of the more realistic Fire Emblem games.  

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It really an well-articulated expansion of the situation in chapter 7 of FE4. Leif has acess to Lenster castle, but it is neutral and missing functionalities that you have with castle Seliph conquered. 

On 12/28/2018 at 1:11 AM, omegaxis1 said:

I have seen Thracia and have seen how tough it is, and the gameplay integration of their situation is truly something impressive. 

But this is also why I feel that there may be no way that we can get a proper remake for it. There's a chance that such a hard game will end up being downplayed for the sake of newer players. That wouldn't work. If the makers want to make a remake out of this properly to convey the right message, they need to really show the same situation. Of course, this can still be rectified by DLC and such.

Also, I believe that Conquest actually has similar cases, where it isn't that easy to attain resources and income, unlike Birthright, which mirrors how Nohr is a nation that is deprived of the vast resources that Hoshido has. 

Genealogy also does a great job of also showing a nice gameplay integration of story where Holy Weapons are very broken weapons to use, giving huge buffs and such, with Book of Naga giving a total of +80 to its weapon in stat distribution. I wish that they would do something similar with Falchion and the others. 

Naga is broken because players might not have raised Julia up at all for a non-expert playthrough.

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