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Arctic Mafia (Game Thread)

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7 minutes ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

Day 1: Automated Votals from #1 to #299

Ichigo (3): Magnificence Incarnate, Athena_57, Bartozio
Magnificence Incarnate (2): weinerboy, RADicate
RADicate (2): Ampharos, XnadrojX
Bartozio (1): Sully McGully
weinerboy (1): Mitsuru Kirijo
Not voting (4): Shinori, Vi-astra, Ichigo, Jester's Gestures

Phase ends in 25h8m. Hammer at 8.

Vote history:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Ampharos (2): Shinori -> RADicate

Athena_57 (3): Bartozio -> Unvote -> Ichigo

Bartozio (3): Ampharos -> Mitsuru Kirijo -> Ichigo

Magnificence Incarnate (3): Ampharos -> weinerboy -> Ichigo

Mitsuru Kirijo (3): Sully McGully -> Bartozio -> weinerboy

RADicate (3): Bartozio -> XnadrojX -> Magnificence Incarnate

Shinori (7): Sully McGully -> weinerboy -> Magnificence Incarnate -> Unvote -> Ampharos -> Ichigo -> Unvote

Sully McGully (2): Magnificence Incarnate -> Bartozio

weinerboy (2): Shinori -> Magnificence Incarnate

XnadrojX (4): RADicate -> Unvote -> Mitsuru Kirijo -> RADicate

 

<Beta v2.0.4>

 

This votecount is accurate. The one posted right before was an error on my part with the script.

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@RADicate I've played with Dunn before,  weiner and I were scum buddies while Dunn was town.  This guy got flak on him for not doing anything but he was a lot more passive and insightful in his reads. This game he's being reactive but only to things mentioned about him and his arguments feel like tunnel vision to me which I could easily see scum doing. If you want to read more of dunn's town game then you should read Xsite, but that's a hugeass game to read. 

 

Also his argument against me isn't even good.  He starts arguing about how conviction =/= town read which is whatever but in rvs you're going to have to make some kinda read and vote somewhere to get somewhere?  Big deal,  he didn't vote Bartozio, it doesn't change the fact that he entered the thread with scum reading Bartozio as his sole content for that time?  Saying that it could be a knee-jerk reaction from town isn't very good imo because what are the other things that Dunn has done that make you think that he's being pro-town other than scum read the guy everyone itg has been screaming about(hint:that's not necessarily pro-town either). 

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@Mitsuru Kirijo Bart's meta is that he gets scapegoated every rvs for trying to do something and kinda explains things too much in detail so people don't like that and lynch him.  I don't really like the cases on him mostly cuz they focus on what he did during his first few posts in the game instead of after because I think his explanations are good. I also think scum!Bart just legit flakes instead of spending post after post trying to argue with people and I say this as someone who has observed his scum play in a few games as town/mod. So unless someone is willing to give me a convincing case that changes my mind I'm unlikely to change my read here. 

 

Ftr I think your votes are pure and I like your read on Jordan especially the part about self meta, didn't want to push it because I don't know how reliable that is to get a read on Jordan. What do you think of my read on him and his take on Bartozio? 

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First off, apologies for not posting after my first post because the text box to post disappeared and I had to message Fenrir about it and then it told me I had reached my posting limits and I had to wait 24 hours before posting again when I tried to reply probably because my account is new or something. He got an admin to manually validate me so shoutouts to whoever did that. Here's a summary of my thoughts on what I've read so far.

page 1-2: 99% filler no comment

page 3: Not a fan of Bartozio and Ampharos interactions. Bart questions Amph about voting but backs off completely after Amph responds, and Amph did not shift votes. I would be more inclined to believe bart!scum at this point. Also worth noting that he starts off with a vote on Amph, which could be assumed to be rvs since there is no additional reasoning, but only later does he question Amph, which leads to her response and Bart's unlynch. My first impressions say that Bartozio is not the kind of player to "lynch first ask questions later." Possibly could be Bart + Amph scum team, but it's way too early to tell.

page 4: Mindmeld with RAD, but I don't think Claire coming off as defensive is indicative of her being scum. I'm a fan of the Bart wagon.

page 5: weinerboy's vote on Marth rubs me the wrong way, but I can't really explain why, so no further comment. Most of what Refa said I agree with, but personally speaking I would've put my vote on Bart rather than Amph.

page 6: I'm starting to get the impression that Vi-astra is high whenever he posts. Gut reaction to Xnad's posts is to say he's likely town, given that he's one of the people here who I've actually played mafia with before. Bart's comment of "'Besides people will realize I don't actually have someone who only made joke comments as lock scum, right?'" seems like he is walking back his vote, but he does not unlynch which I find strange.

page 7: I'm going to trust everyone who's saying that Vi-astra's tone is natural and put him as a town slot. Putting Xnad as almost locktown. Marth reasoning about Ichigo would've been solid if Ichigo had voted Bart. Comes from a town perspective imo. I think I'll have to spend some time reading Bart's past games and possibly re-evaluate my read on him, but on the other hand I'm very lazy.

page 8: Bart comes back with an immediate jab at Ichigo. Interesting. He keeps saying he grilled Ampharos, but it wasn't really much of a grill imo. I feel like Bart here is trying to build up the Ichigo counterwagon in order to save himself. Not exactly a great look.

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page 9: Bart - "Marth is right that I pushed/grilled Amy" Hold up. Am I reading the right game?
    ampharos: filler
    bartozio: rvs ampharos
    ampharos: non-serious response
    bartozio: why aren't you voting claire?
    ampharos: i'm just like that
    bartozio: unvotes
This doesn't seem like much of a push/grill to me. It was pretty weak and now I am starting to think possibly scripted, at least on Bart's end. RAD's vote on Jordan comes off as a little bit of OMGUS. I'm not a fan of his response to Xnad saying "BTW a very easy way to see if RAD is scum is to see if he reads me wrong. Guy has 100% accuracy on my alignment as Town." RAD say's it doesn't make sense coming from a town POV, but Xnad's statement still has it's merits, although I'd take everything "100%" with a grain of salt. Let's say RAD scum reads Xbad and lynches him. If Xnad were to flip town, RAD would be implicated as scum (assuming Xnad's statement that RAD has 100% accurate reads on him as Town is correct). What confuses me is that RAD proceeds to lynch Xbad right after.

page 10: It looks like RAD's vote was more pressure than an actual read, but it's still a little odd to me. Lots of input from Mitsuru, but somehow my read on them is still null, possibly because I'm bad at making reads.

page 11-12: I feel like Athena has been coasting a little bit, I don't think I've seen anything particularly stand out-ish. It's not sr-worthy, but I'd put him at null/scum as of now. weinerboy has a way of saying things that makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not confident enough to give him a strong townread.

Would anyone be kind enough to link me to a couple of games where Bartozio was mislynched? I'd like to compare some stuff.
My attention span has reached its limit. I'll be back tomorrow.

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I'm caught up on reading. I'm really exhausted tonight but just a few thoughts:

@Athena_57 when I said some defenses of Bart weren't very townsided I was referring mainly to Marth's which I felt like was sugarcoating Bart's scumminess. This logic of mine is getting a little dated at this point and I'll update it later, but here's what I mean:

Bart is definitely acting scummy. 

Anybody who says Bart is town should be saying "I know he looks like scum, but he isn't really." They should not be giving him a pass or acting like this is a normal way for town to act. And IIRC that's what Marth did in his first post regarding Bart. It wasn't until later that Marth started to treat Bart like he actually needed defending.

@Bartozio I'm not saying you're an idiot, sorry if I sounded offensive, but I'm saying that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that you slipped up early on. And then backtracked afterwards when you realized it was a mistake. And the more you post, the more I can see this as being you as frantic town not wanting to be mislynched, but this is all dependent on your meta of being a frequent D1 mislynch. In a vacuum you look scummy. If another player were doing what you're doing they'd look scummy. And I don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I think it was Marth who said they expected you to be lazier as scum, but IMO how lazy/motivated scum is isn't necessarily as tied to an individual player's meta as it is tied to how they fit in/what is required of them by the rest of the scumteam. 

My posts are starting to be less grounded in reality and more grounded in reality as I remember it. I'm too tired to be doing this right now. Sometime soon I'm going to do some rereading and get my reads straight. It's gonna be a while before I post again though. I'll probably be back in before DL but in case I'm not, I'm leaving my vote on Bart because he's the player I feel like is most likely to be scum. And if he isn't, at least it gives us a lot of info to work with regarding Claire, Dunn, Marth and some others.

I was actually considering making a case on Marth while I was gone today, but some things in his later posts have given me a better feeling about him. Like I said early on that I expected better from him and it feels like he's improved his reads a bit. There's probably more there if I read into it. 

Also interesting fact: the entire game's focus is supposedly on Bart right now but I'm the only one voting him. Yet most of his recent content has been devoted to defending himself. Somebody who isn't sleep-deprived should take a look at that, it could be a townie going above and beyond to clear themselves or reactive scum.

Dunn has been really subpar TBH, but they've only posted minimally and the wagon on them popped up pretty suddenly. Not super comfortable lynching there.

I like Jester's content. If I may address some of the cases on Refa before Jester showed up, somebody called him "unmotivated" and I feel like that's wrong. What we saw in this game wasn't lazy Refa. Lazy Refa is very distinctive and annoying. Refa this game seemed pretty much in-line with their town meta and I know they've been busy with making an EiMM which could explain why their posting was infrequent. I seriously wouldn't have signed up for this while designing an EiMM so I can see why he subbed out.

@Fenrir Aesir I can talk about subouts right? The rules don't say anything about it, but I know that's a rule in some games.

@Jester's Gestures Via plays Mafia high. That's pretty much the only way they play, that's why they're pretty easy to read. Refer to their signature if you want.

Goodnight. 

 

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votals have me wrong I'm voting the Xad guy but

 

##unvote
##vote: marth

i Guess it's probably low effort town over low effort scum Whatever

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On 12/29/2018 at 1:48 PM, Refa said:

@Vi-astra Can you explain why Bart explaining himself made you feel better? I think your point about Amy being self conscious meta wise is good. It reads to me as her not wanting to be scumread for a dumb reason (e.g. my actually nonexistent meta knowledge of Amy lmao). I'm kind of conflicted on who to vote because I think what Bartozio is doing is worse than what Amy is doing but like uh...I could see myself mislynching Bartozio more easily than Amy. PEdit: Well now I'm voting Amy just because Bart already has a wagon.

@Shinori

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12 hours ago, Bartozio said:

The argument itself might be sus, but the timing is not.

 

Was refering to this post. First line is what I'm refering to. I could see it be there just to make it look like he's not mindlessly sheeping, because he doesn't really follow up on it/mentions Claire still reads null to him (more townlean but meta I think? not really sus at the very least).

Relevant to the timeline. They don't jump on the wagon, but they still add fuel to it. Possibly because there's already scum on the wagon, and they dislike doubling up.

No, I said I doubt all 3 scum are among the people sussing me. So (at least) one is outside of that. And then I mentioned two people defending me, because it's the most obvious opinion to take to diffirentiate.

I had Sully as town, but not Claire.

Of those three, I have Via as town. Refa and Weiner could go either way (null), slightly more sus of Weiner.

Why am I the likely scum not pushing you? And why do you think all the wolves would try to get involved with you, as opposed to just not caring, dropping some statements on you, and going after someone else, who several people this game has done?

6 hours ago, Jester's Gestures said:

First off, apologies for not posting after my first post because the text box to post disappeared and I had to message Fenrir about it and then it told me I had reached my posting limits and I had to wait 24 hours before posting again when I tried to reply probably because my account is new or something. He got an admin to manually validate me so shoutouts to whoever did that. Here's a summary of my thoughts on what I've read so far.

page 1-2: 99% filler no comment

page 3: Not a fan of Bartozio and Ampharos interactions. Bart questions Amph about voting but backs off completely after Amph responds, and Amph did not shift votes. I would be more inclined to believe bart!scum at this point. Also worth noting that he starts off with a vote on Amph, which could be assumed to be rvs since there is no additional reasoning, but only later does he question Amph, which leads to her response and Bart's unlynch. My first impressions say that Bartozio is not the kind of player to "lynch first ask questions later." Possibly could be Bart + Amph scum team, but it's way too early to tell.

page 4: Mindmeld with RAD, but I don't think Claire coming off as defensive is indicative of her being scum. I'm a fan of the Bart wagon.

page 5: weinerboy's vote on Marth rubs me the wrong way, but I can't really explain why, so no further comment. Most of what Refa said I agree with, but personally speaking I would've put my vote on Bart rather than Amph.

page 6: I'm starting to get the impression that Vi-astra is high whenever he posts. Gut reaction to Xnad's posts is to say he's likely town, given that he's one of the people here who I've actually played mafia with before. Bart's comment of "'Besides people will realize I don't actually have someone who only made joke comments as lock scum, right?'" seems like he is walking back his vote, but he does not unlynch which I find strange.

page 7: I'm going to trust everyone who's saying that Vi-astra's tone is natural and put him as a town slot. Putting Xnad as almost locktown. Marth reasoning about Ichigo would've been solid if Ichigo had voted Bart. Comes from a town perspective imo. I think I'll have to spend some time reading Bart's past games and possibly re-evaluate my read on him, but on the other hand I'm very lazy.

page 8: Bart comes back with an immediate jab at Ichigo. Interesting. He keeps saying he grilled Ampharos, but it wasn't really much of a grill imo. I feel like Bart here is trying to build up the Ichigo counterwagon in order to save himself. Not exactly a great look.

Mind telling everyone why I'm locktown? Also who are you and why have you played with me before >.>

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3 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

votals have me wrong I'm voting the Xad guy but

 

##unvote
##vote: marth

i Guess it's probably low effort town over low effort scum Whatever

You have to vote with the proper syntax.

3 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

PEdit: Well now I'm voting Amy just because Bart already has a wagon.

The above is a quote from refa, not Via.  This one line actually is what stood out to me the most.  Kinda dislike this.

I may have to sub out but im trying to not do that.

4 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Anybody who says Bart is town should be saying "I know he looks like scum, but he isn't really." They should not be giving him a pass or acting like this is a normal way for town to act. And IIRC that's what Marth did in his first post regarding Bart. It wasn't until later that Marth started to treat Bart like he actually needed defending.

I'm not a fan of this.  In all honesty this is now how normal town act but it's how normal bartozio acts.  Bart was scum in a recent game though I think and it might be worth the effort to compare some of his gameplay during this game to him during that game.  We have less than 24 hours though to go looking through another game, and i don't even remember which game it was exactly...

I do agree that Bart's play so far has been scummy, I just heavily dislike the mentality that came from Sully's last post, specifically what I quoted as it makes bart look worse without factoring in meta.

I most likely missed it but @SullyMcGullyWhat are your thoughts on Claire V Bartozio that happened recently?

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13 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

is XnadrojX frozen scum or just someone who plays town very lax?

Is both or neither a valid answer? I've been pretty sporadic in activity, which is probably why you think this.

13 hours ago, RADicate said:

also @XnadrojX i havent forgotten about you, i still want those responses 

also i need to give weiner a reread @Shinori idr anything that really pinged me about their content beyond they are here and they are active enough lmao

listen here you piece of shit there was a one hour gap between those posts and YOU KNOW it was fucking 4 in the morning for me at the time.

13 hours ago, Mitsuru Kirijo said:

 

 

Hard disagree on this. Nothing the adorable weiner has posted has really struck me as something outside their scumrange. The posting makes sense, yes but that’s...really it. I had them more as a scumlean myself. I don’t think they’re doing much to solve the game. They’re just making ok posts.

I like RAD asking me for games to read. Of course, scum can do this too but I don’t think he’s overly scummy and last time I played with Rad in the anon game he got wagoned for reasons just like this as town.  (He was lacking was reactive etc) What do you expect of town Rad that you’re not seeing here?
 

 

 

Like end of the day this feels like a defense of part along with a wall of nothing. Bart and me were the 2 people getting the most heat at the time of course people have stuff to say about it. The way you worded this post comes across as you going ‘whoa guys everyone has something to say about bart this is weird.’ This whole post really is just...lacking to me.

 

 

I liked some of jordans posting but this struck me out as super scummy. It’s basically going ‘Rad has to read me as town or he’s scum.’ That doesn’t feel very towny at all and just because someone has a great read rate on you doesn’t mean mistakes can’t happen. We’re humans who can fuck up. Not robots who are perfect.

Is this bart meta. Because if it is you really just answered your own question on ‘why would bart do this.’  

I... wasn't serious about it? I was making a joke/threatening RAD to give me a pass.

 

Are you the kind of person who scumreads anything you can't townread? Because that's the feeling you give off wrt your weinerboy read rn, "They don't make me townread them, so they're a scumread".

4 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

I'm caught up on reading. I'm really exhausted tonight but just a few thoughts:

@Athena_57 when I said some defenses of Bart weren't very townsided I was referring mainly to Marth's which I felt like was sugarcoating Bart's scumminess. This logic of mine is getting a little dated at this point and I'll update it later, but here's what I mean:

Bart is definitely acting scummy. 

Anybody who says Bart is town should be saying "I know he looks like scum, but he isn't really." They should not be giving him a pass or acting like this is a normal way for town to act. And IIRC that's what Marth did in his first post regarding Bart. It wasn't until later that Marth started to treat Bart like he actually needed defending.

@Bartozio I'm not saying you're an idiot, sorry if I sounded offensive, but I'm saying that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that you slipped up early on. And then backtracked afterwards when you realized it was a mistake. And the more you post, the more I can see this as being you as frantic town not wanting to be mislynched, but this is all dependent on your meta of being a frequent D1 mislynch. In a vacuum you look scummy. If another player were doing what you're doing they'd look scummy. And I don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I think it was Marth who said they expected you to be lazier as scum, but IMO how lazy/motivated scum is isn't necessarily as tied to an individual player's meta as it is tied to how they fit in/what is required of them by the rest of the scumteam. 

My posts are starting to be less grounded in reality and more grounded in reality as I remember it. I'm too tired to be doing this right now. Sometime soon I'm going to do some rereading and get my reads straight. It's gonna be a while before I post again though. I'll probably be back in before DL but in case I'm not, I'm leaving my vote on Bart because he's the player I feel like is most likely to be scum. And if he isn't, at least it gives us a lot of info to work with regarding Claire, Dunn, Marth and some others.

I was actually considering making a case on Marth while I was gone today, but some things in his later posts have given me a better feeling about him. Like I said early on that I expected better from him and it feels like he's improved his reads a bit. There's probably more there if I read into it. 

Also interesting fact: the entire game's focus is supposedly on Bart right now but I'm the only one voting him. Yet most of his recent content has been devoted to defending himself. Somebody who isn't sleep-deprived should take a look at that, it could be a townie going above and beyond to clear themselves or reactive scum.

Dunn has been really subpar TBH, but they've only posted minimally and the wagon on them popped up pretty suddenly. Not super comfortable lynching there.

There isn't really a "should" when it comes to reasoning your reads imo. Bart's recent posts are pretty okay, in both reasoning and in intention, and I don't really see too much of your "he's doing nothing but defend himself" problem you claim to exist.

 

 

 

I actually am going to read marth more in detail because I don't understand anything about the wagon. I prefer when people post pretty posts with their thoughts rather than having to sift through stuff and actually read x.x

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14 hours ago, Shinori said:

I liked a lot of marth's posts on page 7 but I don't know if Marth responded to this and I missed it or if he just ignored it.  Either way it doesn't matter too much for the most part his posts on Page 7 made me feel overall better about him.

I most likely missed it in one of your other posts so I apologize ahead of time but; Why do you feel Claire is a better vote here over Marth?  Unless I'm misunderstanding you seem to imply you don't like what Marth is doing and in my opinion it sounds like he should be slightly worse in your eyes for this.

I explained in some post somewhere that I had to go to lunch for like 2 hours, was a aimless retard, plonked my vote somewhere and planned to move it when I came back from lunch.

As for why it was on Claire, they were one of the 2 major talking points at the time and I already announced that I didn't want to lynch Bart so uh, they were the first name that came to mine.

16 hours ago, RADicate said:

Alright xnad, lets get this out of the way just like every other game. If you are scum you should know better than to pick a fight with me :D

That being said what about amy's read do you agree with? To me amy's comments wrt me weren't much of a read at all and more of a "get your act together and start being productive"?  

So i'm confused as to what you see here?

The former part makes no sense coming from a town POV, if i were to be scum, and if you were to be town, logically I would know you are town and could very easily fabricate a townread on you, why is my read on you at all AI in this scenario?

Also if you could, walk me through your overall thoughts on amy and what about them pings you as town? 

 

One day, many years from now, I'll come back and triumph over your sorry ass!

It's not "agree" per se, more like, "whatever you said sounds good and I'm going to sheep what you're doing".

IT'S A GOD DAMN JOKE ONE DAY I'LL BE A MASTER AT MAKING JOKES AND I WILL RAIN HELL ON YOU.

Amy: Opened in trying to ease the game out of RVS, without really unnaturally trying to rush it like I've seen scum try to do. How do I explain, it was like they were trying to egg on something worth talking about, rather than reaching to make something look like it's worth talking about. Their follow-ups throughout the day has also been pretty good IMO, their logic always check out, which isn't really a townpoint but it makes them a lot more readable, and I feel like their posts try to gamesolve rather than push agenda. I can quote stuff if you want but I assume this is enough for you.

16 hours ago, RADicate said:

yeah and where you stand on marth too @XnadrojX 

my d1 reads are lame as a general rule but ur xnad soooooooo

My marth read is kinda like ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I don't really know where to stand regarding that, I can see why he's scumread because his logic does give me a few question marks, but at the same time I think most of his recent posts are like, ranging between decent to good, so I'd like, put him as Town-ish pending further re-reading.

 

WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN

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9 hours ago, Athena_57 said:

Really? I was doing a reread (well, reskim) there bc I wanted to doublecheck him/refa for having somewhat easy pushes but I really liked his loose posting... What makes you think he's scum?

@Vi-astra

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First reaction to jester was that I didn't like it bc I disagreed with a lot, but after rereading I don't hate it as much. I need to actually get on a computer and pull up the pages he's referring to but idk when that will happen

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

I asked via that question and they gave me a refa quote athena.  Go check it. ^^^^

Aight, will do

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