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Arctic Mafia (Game Thread)

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9 minutes ago, Athena_57 said:

 I'm going to read back some games w/ him to see whether I can find the condescendingness in his towngames or not and will get back to you

Okay I tried this but didn't actually find anything spectacular in either his town or scum games so I'm just going to call it scummy in a vacuum. But I also still think stopping the conversation w/ Amy and voting Claire there looks more like a townie that wants to get some pressure going than scum that wants to shut down the argument.

So... mild town?

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1 hour ago, Ampharos said:

Have y'all met me? I'm a self conscious person in general.

expect more when I get home

I don't think being self conscious is that scummy because of stuff like this but it's what bothers me the second most (and Bartozio has enough pressure).

52 minutes ago, Athena_57 said:

I think the word kneejerk is very much accurate, it was also bc my two co-wagoners were people I had a "bad-ish vibes but maybe just null"-read on and I was like maybe it's a bad idea to vote Bart over tone/style when that's what often catches him flak. I'm going to read back some games w/ him to see whether I can find the condescendingness in his towngames or not and will get back to you

Thanks, boss.

49 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

refa are you town

answer honestly 

Hell yeah I am.

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39 minutes ago, Athena_57 said:

Okay I tried this but didn't actually find anything spectacular in either his town or scum games so I'm just going to call it scummy in a vacuum. But I also still think stopping the conversation w/ Amy and voting Claire there looks more like a townie that wants to get some pressure going than scum that wants to shut down the argument.

So... mild town?

I think that's scummy haha. You do you, though.

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I thought Evan was in this game and was like "Evan lurking hard is pretty scummy" until I checked the OP hahaha. I think most people have done enough for me to have some impression on them (not like...a read but I can explain where their head is at) except Dunn and Jordan. @Fenrir Aesir Please get Jordan to post help.

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6 minutes ago, Refa said:

I think that's scummy haha. You do you, though.

Is it? I was working off my own meta here lmao. I think in training me/bart had a similar interaction as bart/amy here and then I was like whatever I'll vote w/ you. Maybe it is just scummy in general :thinking: Would appreciate 3rd/4th opinions from others here!

Also, do you still want me to do me when I tell you I was trying to read into you alphabetically ordering your ping-questions?

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1 minute ago, Athena_57 said:

Is it? I was working off my own meta here lmao. I think in training me/bart had a similar interaction as bart/amy here and then I was like whatever I'll vote w/ you. Maybe it is just scummy in general :thinking: Would appreciate 3rd/4th opinions from others here!

Also, do you still want me to do me when I tell you I was trying to read into you alphabetically ordering your ping-questions?

I'm not going off of meta here cause I've never had a great meta read on Bart's alignment personally. I'm uh assuming he was town in Training. What do you think about my other points?

Kind of reluctant to drop this read because it's my strongest conviction in this game and I'm reading most of the playerbase as null (not even town!!).

It's okay if you drive me crazy as long as you're town. Just ask Conq.

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'm not going off of meta here cause I've never had a great meta read on Bart's alignment personally. I'm uh assuming he was town in Training. What do you think about my other points?

Kind of reluctant to drop this read because it's my strongest conviction in this game and I'm reading most of the playerbase as null (not even town!!).

It's okay if you drive me crazy as long as you're town. Just ask Conq.

No, I mean I'm basing it off of how I personally would act as town in his place, which is the way he did. I agree with your other points and also still like my original points (tone which is condescending/too reasonable/whatever you want to all it). Ngl I was dismissing those a bit bc I'm with you on the massive null list and was trying to move him out

I might go back there or maybe join you on Amy who had some of the same issues but it's just a bit rude to not wait until she gets back

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might vote bart that will be pending until I get back so stay tuned

refa, how town are you on a scale of 1 to 10?

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3 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

might vote bart that will be pending until I get back so stay tuned

refa, how town are you on a scale of 1 to 10?

 

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8 hours ago, Mitsuru Kirijo said:

Also as a blanket response to this: I was very clearly (well I guess not so clearly if I have to answer this) making jokes. I wasn’t impatient or anything of the sort. I’m really confused how you can even get that from my posting. Really I feel from my convo from Sully and overall tone it should be clear I was just making lighthearted posting.

Even jokes are made with some feeling behind them though? You're not a robot, so your head is never/very rarely going to be completely blank when posting something. Trying to get reads during rvs is basicly trying to read into those. Is that a reliable way to find scum on it's own? no. Does it lead to serious conversation sooner and is it thus better than doing nothing? yes.

The above is more a general statement than applying solely here (although it still aplies), but I feel people often forget/don't realize this when talking about reads during early game and it's starting to piss me off a bit.

Moving on.

8 hours ago, Mitsuru Kirijo said:

This is a pretty strange point A to point B mindset that I really really dislike from Bart. He goes on before talking on he’s not so sold on me being scum but I kid you not one post later he goes from ‘ehhh maybe’ to what I just quoted for you. That doesn’t seem real to me. That feels like someone who tried to fake understanding of a read and pretended to buy it right after that as an excuse to vote. His egging on of getting Ampharos to vote doesn’t help either. Just the overall confidence of this post is strange and off.

##Vote: @Bartozio

Maybe I should explain some things here:

1. I liked Amphies case on you from the start, but the not voting thing was giving me nasty flashbacks. So I decided to grill her a little, and didn't want to muddy the water first.

2. I liked her response to said grilling enough to not have her as a slight scum lean, and I wasn't really finding Weiner sus, so at this point you were the obvious person to push for me (those two were the only people who had posted serious content at the moment, and I didn't see something else worth pushing other than you).

3. At that point, I could have made a post saying: "Gee, I don't really have anything else to push, so I guess I'll just sheep this slight scum lean because it's beats doing nothing", or I could think "I'm gonna vote here anyway, might as well dig in my heels and go balls deep because it's fun and more likely to get reactions. Besides people will realize I don't actually have someone who only made joke comments as lock scum, right?". I went with the later.

7 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

@Bartozio Ehhhhhhh you're technically correct but I've got nothing other than it felt like an interjection for the sake of it. 

Technically correct, my favorite type of correct.

9 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Kinda want a response from Claire before I put my thoughts down on her but I didn't like soup presenting a counterargument to amph without really taking reads in a different direction.  This isn't much to go on but ##unvote ##vote: @weinerboy

These are still coming, right? Or are you still waiting for a different type of response?

5 hours ago, weinerboy said:

Catching up and wanted to stop for a moment and say that Bart I don't understand why you're stacking the deck so early, and hopefully I don't make an ass out of myself again but like your exchange with Amy felt like you were planning in accordance and less uh free-flowing? It just seemed like you had a planned answer for everything thrown at you, then coupled with the fact your vote on Mitsuru read less like a decision town made based on knowledge gained and more trying to lead by example which cock-sure scum tend to do.

Gonna refer to my response to Clair for the meat of this, but the short answer is: She's not actually lock scum. I wanted to make sure to keep things going.

About the exchange, part of it might have been that I did agree with her case but wanted to grill her first. Other than that, I can't really say much more than I'm a calculative person in general.

3 hours ago, Refa said:

This is all the reasoning you need for an ED1 vote, but I don't get why you haven't voted based on this. Feels like you're trying to gauge the general consensus before voting her. I don't think that always comes from scum but it's pretty self conscious. FTR, I didn't get any read off of Claire's RVS posts.

Not responding to Amy's read initially bothers me. Just a minor thing, wouldn't vote on it alone. What bothers me more is that your progression on Claire doesn't read as natural to me. You pressed Amy on her read and then switched your vote to Claire because you didn't really have anything else to press Amy on. I don't know how to explain it, I feel like...town in this situation would be more willing to agree to disagree, even if they weren't bothered by Amy. I don't get why you're scumreading Claire. Also his Weiner read doesn't have much thought IMO. Saying "we should look at him if Claire flips scum" just because he defended Claire feels very surface level to me, especially considering he's voting Claire. I might be nitpicking here because I think if he said "I wouldn't townread him if Claire flipped scum" it wouldn't bother me because I don't see an agenda there.

My read on Weiner went kind of like: Only agenda like thinking I can see from him here would be [AGENDA], but [AGENDA] implies Claire is scum, so there's no reason to go after Weiner before Claire.

Where [AGENDA] = Claire and Weiner are both scum and Weiner is trying to protect Claire.

Read my response to Claire for other stuff I guess.

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Day 1: Automated Votals from #118 to #135

Magnificence Incarnate (3): Shinori, SullyMcGully, weinerboy
Bartozio (2): Mitsuru Kirijo, RADicate
Ampharos (1): Refa
Mitsuru Kirijo (1): Bartozio
Shinori (1): Ampharos
weinerboy (1): Magnificence Incarnate
Not voting (4): Athena_57, Ichigo, Vi-astra, XnadrojX

Phase ends in 47h43m. Hammer at 8.

Vote history:

Refa (2): Unvote -> Ampharos

<Beta v2.0.4>

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I don't see Bart as scum here, weirdass progressions are better than no progressions tbh.

 

 

##Vote: @RADicate

 

Popped in with little meaningful content, shitposted a bit, left. I don't really remember RAD's meta but the fact that we were already out of RVS and that he had the opportunity to chat with one of the few contested slots at the time bugs me.

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Thank god this game doesn't have MU bs where people span 1000 posts evert 24 hours. Seems like MS and SF people are cooler than those mean MU-ers :c

 

My only meta on most of the guys here is fron Training so uh, I won't have much reads from that front.

 

No one teally pings me as Town so far, except maybe Ampharos.

I was reading back a bit while posting this and realized I for some reason have missed Marth entirely and am now going to read their posts.

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10 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

@Shinori  not sure what I need to expand upon. Wrt weiner it didn't feel like the convo went anywhere and he could've just not said anything and it would've had the same effect. There isn't much here but I feel like this is a better vote than anything else right now.  And with amph well I think her case is reasonable I'm just not sold on it coming from town necessarily. 

Saw this and felt the need to asl.why do you think that makes him a good vote?

 

Marth just feels like he's being really hedgy while trying to avoid giving off the impression of going after LHF.

Refa picking at Bart and Amph for stuff that feels minor is like... There's nothing wrong there, I just... don't feel comfortable about it? IDK how to explain.

 

##Vote: @Mitsuru Kirijo

 

Gonna put my vote there while I go eat.

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I just got off work but I'm waiting for terrador to get off so he can hitch a ride with me so I'm gonna sit and attempt to play mafia on my phone

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19 hours ago, Ampharos said:

Maybe.

I dunno, I just... if I'm bothered by a lack of content, I get really antsy about it. Faking a scumread was something I considered, too. For Claire to mention that and then decide to ghost the thread in the same breath weirded me out. It seems counterproductive if the point is to force the thread to generate content.

This train of thought is legit but I don't think it's scummy coming from Claire 

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18 hours ago, Bartozio said:

K, fair enough. I liked Weiner's play so far, and I think the only agenda he could have for not joining the Claire band wagon is that they're both scum, which is a scenario we might as well consider after lynching Claire.

So let's make Yolo-sempai proud and clap us some Claire I guess?

If by love you mean "I had a great rvs post all thought out, but then the game already got half serious before I arrived and now I don't wanna post it anymore. Oh god, am I getting lynched for going to bed before deadline again", then yes.

Also like... lol, it's rvs, what were you expecting other than easy accusations? It reminded me a bit of Honneybottoms (played by Walrein, which may or may not have been Amphy, I suck at name changes) in CupHeads mafia going an entire phase without moving off an rvs vote, even though they interjected relevant game thoughts (they were scum, and yes it's early D1, but it started similar). Currently, it being probably more personality than allignment driven and their opinions not being bad is giving me a slight townlean there though.

What are your thoughts on Amphy, Weiner and Claire?

This player came into the thread with an agenda of going along with forming suspicion on Claire and extending it to another slot and trying to gain more echoing opinions

Strikes me as really scummy

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14 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Their tone feels like they have a strong conviction behind their posts. 

Why does that make them town? When does town have strong conviction behind their posts when discussing multiple scumreads on page 3?

 

Seriously - how does "strong conviction behind their posts" make them more likely town? Can you explain this for me like I'm 5

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OK I'm finally in for the night. I did some reading! I actually feel like I might be not-useless this game.

20 hours ago, Ampharos said:

why must you hurt me in this way

You may have the wrong impression of my read, so let me enunciate more clearly.

If Claire was legitimately looking to jumpstart the game out of RVS, to the point that she considered faking a scumread on someone, would she really be content to go afk and wait for other people to do the work for her?

There's a sense of impatience I'd be expecting to feel behind her posting if that was the case, and I'm not picking up any.

Ironically, Amy right here is doing the very thing Claire said she wouldn't do: "faking" a scumread. Basically, when Claire made her "fake scumread" post, that was the first post in the game that was even slightly serious. Amy took the golden opportunity to make bank off of that post, which is honestly something I had considered doing (that post came out right before I went to bed.) I don't think it was scummy for her to do so, and it started some good conversation. But I also don't feel like there's supposed to be any conviction behind Amy's posts. She's just starting the conversation, so when Bart comes in later with a serious scumread on Claire acting like he's just sheeping Amy, it feels off to me. Here's what I mean:

18 hours ago, Bartozio said:

K, fair enough. I liked Weiner's play so far, and I think the only agenda he could have for not joining the Claire band wagon is that they're both scum, which is a scenario we might as well consider after lynching Claire.

So let's make Yolo-sempai proud and clap us some Claire I guess?

If by love you mean "I had a great rvs post all thought out, but then the game already got half serious before I arrived and now I don't wanna post it anymore. Oh god, am I getting lynched for going to bed before deadline again", then yes.

Also like... lol, it's rvs, what were you expecting other than easy accusations? It reminded me a bit of Honneybottoms (played by Walrein, which may or may not have been Amphy, I suck at name changes) in CupHeads mafia going an entire phase without moving off an rvs vote, even though they interjected relevant game thoughts (they were scum, and yes it's early D1, but it started similar). Currently, it being probably more personality than allignment driven and their opinions not being bad is giving me a slight townlean there though.

What are your thoughts on Amphy, Weiner and Claire?

The bolded is supposed to be a joke? That's what one of his later posts would suggest, but I feel like Bart is moving too fast to make Claire into a lynch target based off of marginal reads. Like I said, we're talking about the first game-related post in the game. It'll always get picked on. Bart is taking this too far. Especially considering that Claire hadn't replied to anything on her yet.

14 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Gonna town read the Dutch bros(bart and athena) for having opening posts that seem very gamesolvey. Their tone feels like they have a strong conviction behind their posts. 

 

I thought amph's case on Claire was reasonable but Bart brings up a good point that she did the same thing in the last anon game that she played here as mafia and then suck with the rvs vote so I guess the Claire vote is not telling. 

 

Kinda want a response from Claire before I put my thoughts down on her but I didn't like soup presenting a counterargument to amph without really taking reads in a different direction.  This isn't much to go on but ##unvote ##vote: @weinerboy

This post feels off. The bolded part lumps together two players who I feel have been different this game and acts like they're both doing the same thing. And Bart's posts at this point had been very bare-bones, only providing original content when provided. Bart's play up to this point should look scummy in a lot of ways, and people who think Bart is town should be addressing how despite how it looks, it isn't really scummy, instead of pretending there's nothing suspicious there.

Also I'm OK with Soup, IMO they're just doing the same thing as Amy and starting the conversation. Like yeah it's a weak conversation, but it's better than no conversation. What's important here is saying "just because Soup participated in the early conversation (generally town behavior) doesn't mean he's town." Keeping an open mind is good. However, saying "Soup participated in this conversation, therefore he is scummy," is jumping the gun a bit.

Can't say for certain that I scumread Marth based off of this as I feel like they've been similar as town in the past, but I expect better reads from them. 

13 hours ago, Mitsuru Kirijo said:

Ew it's Rad. I guess it can be kinda seen as defensive. I kinda had a 'really?' moment with the whole first part but eh

This feels natural and helps put to rest some concerns of my own about Claire's reactive behavior in her first reply.

13 hours ago, RADicate said:

also hi @SullyMcGully we are finally in a game together! 

Yeah me too please be town buddy!

12 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

@Shinori  not sure what I need to expand upon. Wrt weiner it didn't feel like the convo went anywhere and he could've just not said anything and it would've had the same effect. There isn't much here but I feel like this is a better vote than anything else right now.  And with amph well I think her case is reasonable I'm just not sold on it coming from town necessarily. 

OK, well you vote people because they're scummy. Not because their behavior doesn't necessarily come from town. Marth feels really weak in these posts, I'll forgive him for now because there's not much content but he needs to get better or else.

4 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Even jokes are made with some feeling behind them though? You're not a robot, so your head is never/very rarely going to be completely blank when posting something. Trying to get reads during rvs is basicly trying to read into those. Is that a reliable way to find scum on it's own? no. Does it lead to serious conversation sooner and is it thus better than doing nothing? yes.

The above is more a general statement than applying solely here (although it still aplies), but I feel people often forget/don't realize this when talking about reads during early game and it's starting to piss me off a bit.

Moving on.

Maybe I should explain some things here:

1. I liked Amphies case on you from the start, but the not voting thing was giving me nasty flashbacks. So I decided to grill her a little, and didn't want to muddy the water first.

2. I liked her response to said grilling enough to not have her as a slight scum lean, and I wasn't really finding Weiner sus, so at this point you were the obvious person to push for me (those two were the only people who had posted serious content at the moment, and I didn't see something else worth pushing other than you).

3. At that point, I could have made a post saying: "Gee, I don't really have anything else to push, so I guess I'll just sheep this slight scum lean because it's beats doing nothing", or I could think "I'm gonna vote here anyway, might as well dig in my heels and go balls deep because it's fun and more likely to get reactions. Besides people will realize I don't actually have someone who only made joke comments as lock scum, right?". I went with the later.

Technically correct, my favorite type of correct.

These are still coming, right? Or are you still waiting for a different type of response?

Gonna refer to my response to Clair for the meat of this, but the short answer is: She's not actually lock scum. I wanted to make sure to keep things going.

About the exchange, part of it might have been that I did agree with her case but wanted to grill her first. Other than that, I can't really say much more than I'm a calculative person in general.

My read on Weiner went kind of like: Only agenda like thinking I can see from him here would be [AGENDA], but [AGENDA] implies Claire is scum, so there's no reason to go after Weiner before Claire.

Where [AGENDA] = Claire and Weiner are both scum and Weiner is trying to protect Claire.

Read my response to Claire for other stuff I guess.

This feels like a rollback. This is why I assume that bit about "clapping Claire" in that earlier post is a joke. His earlier posts have a lot of confidence, which is even why Marth townread him, but now he's saying "oh I wasn't confident really." And this is after he starts to get flak for his scummy behavior. And what Bart did to Amy's read on Claire isn't sheeping, it takes a simple read and treats it as if it could be a ride-or-die case. This just doesn't feel right.

27 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

This player came into the thread with an agenda of going along with forming suspicion on Claire and extending it to another slot and trying to gain more echoing opinions

Strikes me as really scummy

Yeah this. Dunn's posts are a little barebones though and all he's done so far is chainsaw Claire (I think that's the right terminology? What I mean is, he's defending Claire and attacking her attackers.) Looking forward to seeing him interact more.

As for how feel about Claire, I agree with Soup. Claire is really good at mafia, tonereading her is pointless, if we are to lynch her it will be on a later day with associatives to help us. All of the attention Claire has garnered so far is just what you get for making the first serious post in an NOC mafia game.

I'm scumreading Bart. He could fix this by posting some good responses to the points being laid against him, but right now everything he's done feels rather opportunistic. It's almost obviously so, which makes it seem too bold of a move for scum to make. But honestly my faith in Bart's scum ability isn't strong enough for me to think he's beyond drawing too much attention to himself as scum. We'll see how things develop. I'm putting my vote there.

##Vote: @Bartozio

As for reads on other players, I feel like I need to go back and reread Shinori, RAD, and Athena. Especially Athena, there was something about his posts that felt off to me and I need to double-check and see if said suspicion actually exists. Refa could be town, could be scum,  but at least he isn't being lazy! Amy and Soup both feel town based off of early interactions, but aren't confirmed yet. Something about Xnad's posts rubbed me as townie, looking forward to seeing more from him. Via is probably town based off of meta. I need to see more from Dunn. You guys know how I feel about Marth, Bart, and Claire, so I think that's everyone! 

It's very late here, but I'll stay up for 30 more minutes in case any of you have anything to say regarding my wallpost. I'm going to be gone most of tomorrow unfortunately, so if you have anything else for me, let me know soon.

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