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Arctic Mafia (Game Thread)


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Oh @XnadrojX shinori's vote is an rvs vote on me that has stuck without anything other than some kinda gut read so I don't care about it. Already explained about weiner's vote on me but  I liked his recent post so I'll let it slide for now.

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21 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Gonna town read the Dutch bros(bart and athena) for having opening posts that seem very gamesolvey. Their tone feels like they have a strong conviction behind their posts. 

did you ever explain what this "strong conviction" was in your eyes because I'm curious WRT your thoughts on this. haven't read the whole thread yet but this is burning in my head LOL

claire's response to the votes on her is really town. it was also exactly as I thought it was--she was joking, and people took it the wrong way, perhaps from how she acted in that other game (which was for good reason and I think this subject is best left untouched aside from that) but she's shot up high townread for me and that's both a mix of what I already explained yesterday & this train of thought just lines up with what I would expect from a nonscum claire. the bart vote is also a huge town point up there as it naturally feels like a town feeling that mafia is being opportunistic and pushing her wagon. (definitely something I've done before LOL.) so I'm not voting claire lol.

I don't really know what to think of Bart because he gets mislynched all the time and I think I'm just bad at reading him. the game he was ACTUALLY scum I thought he was town. meta is an exception here because I really feel like Bart's playstyle just pings everybody every game and he gets wagoned fairly early. there is something off about his tone though that I can't shake off, something that feels fabricated I guess, just generally, not really any specific examples here that I can provide. 

RAD's bart vote I can't tell if it's scum who then Immediately started hiding behind roleplay or what. don't really like it

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10 minutes ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Via is locktown in my eyes cuz as scum he just freezes forever. 

this is arctic mafia so if I were scum I would have frozen so hard I'd swing back around and actually play a good scumgame

 

but good thing we don't have to worry about that because I'm town 8)

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20 hours ago, Athena_57 said:

This actually made me want to

##Unvote

because I went back to check this opinionswap and it's not really true in that there's a post in between those (which you may have actually missed), which is where the actual vote happens. I agree his opinions-swap is still sudden, but I actually like that here bc I feel scum is more careful about that shit whereas town is likelier to flip reads to add pressure somewhere. Also something something quick wagon growth on Bart.

this is a good point I like this and I agree. makes me a little more, I think, me being hesitant to vote Bart is for good reason. so I might not do that after all.

18 hours ago, weinerboy said:

I'd say Bart/Amy were far more telling wrt alignment, and athena was more like a third-party observation (e.g Did not get any tells). My thought is compounded by my previous part and I see your amy read as polar opposite cuz I felt like her eagerness was not forced

I'm not actually scumreading Amph anymore, I was Paranoid at first but the self-consciousness thing is null for me now

I was referring to how bart and athena interacted with each other, as I have seen them interact before in previous games and I think it helps me get an idea of their alignments sometimes idk. 

marth's first post was admittedly bad but I wanna see how it compares to his new content after I'm done with thread read

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15 hours ago, Refa said:

He's the Jeigan, here to carry us early game before dying N1.

"carry" is a pretty heavy claim here but I'll take it

15 hours ago, Refa said:

@Vi-astra Can you explain why Bart explaining himself made you feel better? I think your point about Amy being self conscious meta wise is good. It reads to me as her not wanting to be scumread for a dumb reason (e.g. my actually nonexistent meta knowledge of Amy lmao). I'm kind of conflicted on who to vote because I think what Bartozio is doing is worse than what Amy is doing but like uh...I could see myself mislynching Bartozio more easily than Amy. PEdit: Well now I'm voting Amy just because Bart already has a wagon.

what Bart is doing is worse than what Amph is doing, I agree, and after reading again I agree more, but I'm already paranoid cuz Bart gets mislynched all the time, and his wagon did grow pretty fast. not that these are good reasons necessarily to not scumread someone you otherwise would be scumreading, but they're good enough for me right now

 

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8 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

oh duck I skipped like most of page 5

 

##Unvote

can you explain what convinced you to unvote rad?

I don't understand the claire vote after you expressed feeling vaguely scummy about other not-claire people. there's nothing here about claire or what you think about her. need more from you because this is pinging me a little.

auuugh suilly wall post. i have to get through it before my sleeping meds kick in so let's see.

okay okay like if Bart was the wagon we had to consolidate on, I would go there--he's definitely not on my "never-vote-ever" list like claire is and a few other people I won't name. 

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shinori is the biggest null in the game for me right now LMAO

##vote:  XnadrojX 

@SullyMcGully can you explain why you think this dude is town? cuz I'm not really seeing it ATM.

I read whole thread and I'm ready to go retreat into my cave now. until next time fellow water breathers

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1 hour ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Ah ok,  gotcha. Also athena yeah I get your point but idk don't really have another argument for that. 

 

Via is locktown in my eyes cuz as scum he just freezes forever. 

Ah so one of those guys. I see.

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1 hour ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Oh @XnadrojX shinori's vote is an rvs vote on me that has stuck without anything other than some kinda gut read so I don't care about it. Already explained about weiner's vote on me but  I liked his recent post so I'll let it slide for now.

What about Sully's scumread on you?

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7 hours ago, Ichigo said:

This player came into the thread with an agenda of going along with forming suspicion on Claire and extending it to another slot and trying to gain more echoing opinions

Strikes me as really scummy

My "agenda" would be getting things going so people post serious content to analyze? Super scummy, you're right.

Do I need to mention this is sarcasm?

6 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

OK I'm finally in for the night. I did some reading! I actually feel like I might be not-useless this game.

Ironically, Amy right here is doing the very thing Claire said she wouldn't do: "faking" a scumread. Basically, when Claire made her "fake scumread" post, that was the first post in the game that was even slightly serious. Amy took the golden opportunity to make bank off of that post, which is honestly something I had considered doing (that post came out right before I went to bed.) I don't think it was scummy for her to do so, and it started some good conversation. But I also don't feel like there's supposed to be any conviction behind Amy's posts. She's just starting the conversation, so when Bart comes in later with a serious scumread on Claire acting like he's just sheeping Amy, it feels off to me. Here's what I mean:

The bolded is supposed to be a joke? That's what one of his later posts would suggest, but I feel like Bart is moving too fast to make Claire into a lynch target based off of marginal reads. Like I said, we're talking about the first game-related post in the game. It'll always get picked on. Bart is taking this too far. Especially considering that Claire hadn't replied to anything on her yet.

You... you get what a joke means, right?

Everything around rvs is based on marginal reads Sully. And yes, I could have gone over this weakly by saying "Eh, Amy's case is pretty nitpicky, but it's the best we got, so meh" and then disapear and hope other people start things in earnest, but why do I have to wait for other people to do something I can do myself? Me have limited time in a phase, and the more of that time is spend on serious content, the better.

6 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Also I'm OK with Soup, IMO they're just doing the same thing as Amy and starting the conversation. Like yeah it's a weak conversation, but it's better than no conversation. What's important here is saying "just because Soup participated in the early conversation (generally town behavior) doesn't mean he's town." Keeping an open mind is good. However, saying "Soup participated in this conversation, therefore he is scummy," is jumping the gun a bit.

It's how he participated, not that he participated.

6 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

This feels like a rollback. This is why I assume that bit about "clapping Claire" in that earlier post is a joke. His earlier posts have a lot of confidence, which is even why Marth townread him, but now he's saying "oh I wasn't confident really." And this is after he starts to get flak for his scummy behavior. And what Bart did to Amy's read on Claire isn't sheeping, it takes a simple read and treats it as if it could be a ride-or-die case. This just doesn't feel right.

Right, because it's the logical conclusion that I'm super confident about lynching someone with no serious content. You'd have to be an actual genius to see that I might be exaggerating things a little. My bad there.

6 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Yeah this. Dunn's posts are a little barebones though and all he's done so far is chainsaw Claire (I think that's the right terminology? What I mean is, he's defending Claire and attacking her attackers.) Looking forward to seeing him interact more.

As for how feel about Claire, I agree with Soup. Claire is really good at mafia, tonereading her is pointless, if we are to lynch her it will be on a later day with associatives to help us. All of the attention Claire has garnered so far is just what you get for making the first serious post in an NOC mafia game.

This is such a huge cop out it's not even funny anymore. If you can't toneread her, so what? Look into her actual actions and whether those make sense as scum/town. Look at the logic behind her arguments and whether those make sense/feel natural. You're saying that because one of your tools is ineffective, you can't read her at all, which is utterly ridiculous.

6 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

I'm scumreading Bart. He could fix this by posting some good responses to the points being laid against him, but right now everything he's done feels rather opportunistic. It's almost obviously so, which makes it seem too bold of a move for scum to make. But honestly my faith in Bart's scum ability isn't strong enough for me to think he's beyond drawing too much attention to himself as scum. We'll see how things develop. I'm putting my vote there.

I'll have you know my survival rate as scum is leaps and bounds ahead of my survival rate as town.

As much as I disagree with this post, it's a lot closer to what Sully's posts where like in his first town game, as opposed to his first scum game (which I still insist didn't happen, because Anti hero mafia was not a thing), so begrudging town lean here.

5 hours ago, Ampharos said:

The more I read weiner's posts, the more I feel good about his alignment. Just think his general train of thought is something that's difficult for scum to fake.

Can you explain this a bit more? I feel like he's mostly sticking to the sidelines and making general comments, which shouldn't be that hard to fake?

I don't have him as a hard scum read or anything, but I don't really see where the townread is coming from.

5 hours ago, Ampharos said:

Bart... I need to reread his posts in deeper detail, but if there's anything that pings me about him, it's that he feels almost too focused. I hesitate to call it an "agenda" because I almost think it's too early to truly have one, but his actions feel kinda... scripted. I would expect a villager this early in the game to be kind of poking around and looking at multiple avenues, but Bart feels very "explore X, ok X didn't pan out let's explore Y", and the conclusions he's coming up with don't feel super organic?

I guess I am calling him agenda-y, oops.

Question then, what would you see as poking around in my shoes?

I grilled you and I asked Athena about his reads on people. I didn't ask Weiner, but he had already given an opinion about Claire and was asking for your meta, so I didn't see much point in asking for a read on you there. Via and Marth already gave opinions about the whole gamestate on their own.

Soooo... where should I have poked around that I didn't?

4 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

This feels like the most scripted response ever. "Put your vote where your mouth is" is like the most passive aggressive way of taking a stab at someone and the timing he did it at was like ???

Me being passive aggresive? Why I'd never

52 minutes ago, Athena_57 said:

Okay, maybe I should dial down my townread on jordan bc the context of his posts that other game was pretty different (under pressure, in a 1v1)

Still think it holds a little bit of merit though

Maybe look into his play when I stopped the 1v1? I think that was still midway through D1 and the context should be more similar.

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7 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

OK I'm finally in for the night. I did some reading! I actually feel like I might be not-useless this game.

Ironically, Amy right here is doing the very thing Claire said she wouldn't do: "faking" a scumread. Basically, when Claire made her "fake scumread" post, that was the first post in the game that was even slightly serious. Amy took the golden opportunity to make bank off of that post, which is honestly something I had considered doing (that post came out right before I went to bed.) I don't think it was scummy for her to do so, and it started some good conversation. But I also don't feel like there's supposed to be any conviction behind Amy's posts. She's just starting the conversation, so when Bart comes in later with a serious scumread on Claire acting like he's just sheeping Amy, it feels off to me. Here's what I mean:

The bolded is supposed to be a joke? That's what one of his later posts would suggest, but I feel like Bart is moving too fast to make Claire into a lynch target based off of marginal reads. Like I said, we're talking about the first game-related post in the game. It'll always get picked on. Bart is taking this too far. Especially considering that Claire hadn't replied to anything on her yet.

This post feels off. The bolded part lumps together two players who I feel have been different this game and acts like they're both doing the same thing. And Bart's posts at this point had been very bare-bones, only providing original content when provided. Bart's play up to this point should look scummy in a lot of ways, and people who think Bart is town should be addressing how despite how it looks, it isn't really scummy, instead of pretending there's nothing suspicious there.

Also I'm OK with Soup, IMO they're just doing the same thing as Amy and starting the conversation. Like yeah it's a weak conversation, but it's better than no conversation. What's important here is saying "just because Soup participated in the early conversation (generally town behavior) doesn't mean he's town." Keeping an open mind is good. However, saying "Soup participated in this conversation, therefore he is scummy," is jumping the gun a bit.

Can't say for certain that I scumread Marth based off of this as I feel like they've been similar as town in the past, but I expect better reads from them. 

This feels natural and helps put to rest some concerns of my own about Claire's reactive behavior in her first reply.

Yeah me too please be town buddy!

OK, well you vote people because they're scummy. Not because their behavior doesn't necessarily come from town. Marth feels really weak in these posts, I'll forgive him for now because there's not much content but he needs to get better or else.

This feels like a rollback. This is why I assume that bit about "clapping Claire" in that earlier post is a joke. His earlier posts have a lot of confidence, which is even why Marth townread him, but now he's saying "oh I wasn't confident really." And this is after he starts to get flak for his scummy behavior. And what Bart did to Amy's read on Claire isn't sheeping, it takes a simple read and treats it as if it could be a ride-or-die case. This just doesn't feel right.

Yeah this. Dunn's posts are a little barebones though and all he's done so far is chainsaw Claire (I think that's the right terminology? What I mean is, he's defending Claire and attacking her attackers.) Looking forward to seeing him interact more.

As for how feel about Claire, I agree with Soup. Claire is really good at mafia, tonereading her is pointless, if we are to lynch her it will be on a later day with associatives to help us. All of the attention Claire has garnered so far is just what you get for making the first serious post in an NOC mafia game.

I'm scumreading Bart. He could fix this by posting some good responses to the points being laid against him, but right now everything he's done feels rather opportunistic. It's almost obviously so, which makes it seem too bold of a move for scum to make. But honestly my faith in Bart's scum ability isn't strong enough for me to think he's beyond drawing too much attention to himself as scum. We'll see how things develop. I'm putting my vote there.

##Vote: @Bartozio

As for reads on other players, I feel like I need to go back and reread Shinori, RAD, and Athena. Especially Athena, there was something about his posts that felt off to me and I need to double-check and see if said suspicion actually exists. Refa could be town, could be scum,  but at least he isn't being lazy! Amy and Soup both feel town based off of early interactions, but aren't confirmed yet. Something about Xnad's posts rubbed me as townie, looking forward to seeing more from him. Via is probably town based off of meta. I need to see more from Dunn. You guys know how I feel about Marth, Bart, and Claire, so I think that's everyone! 

It's very late here, but I'll stay up for 30 more minutes in case any of you have anything to say regarding my wallpost. I'm going to be gone most of tomorrow unfortunately, so if you have anything else for me, let me know soon.

Your post has me feeling worse about Magnificence incarnate than Bartozio now

Saying I'm chainsawing someone is whatever, I was just giving my opinion on something I felt was wrong and then pointing out that someone else had an agenda

And you'll be able to see plenty of me, we've got plenty of time

 

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3 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Well their tone felt like it had strong conviction in what they were trying to do?

...Right, how does that make them town? Don't just explain what they're doing, explain why it's town.

3 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Scum want to stay in the background and keep their options open for which wagon to push while town want to solve the game so they are proactive in their approach and are more confident in what they're trying to do. 

Wanting to solve the game does not equal "and are more confident in what they're trying to do." - this isn't your first game of mafia, you've never seen a town player that was less than confident? You've never seen a scum player that carried themself with confidence? Where are you getting your information?

3 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Hmm at this point since the narrative is a scum!Bart tunnel I'd expect scum to add fuel to the fire while maintaining a low presence/making safe votes. I'm confident in my town read on Bart for now so, 

##unvote ##vote: @Ichigo

 

You fit the bill!  Also you've got your evidence wrong, 

9 hours ago, Ichigo said:

This player came into the thread with an agenda of going along with forming suspicion on Claire and extending it to another slot and trying to gain more echoing opinions

Strikes me as really scummy

No he didn't, he voted amph for what he perceived to be a shady vote on Claire and then sheeped amph's vote when he got her explanation.  This sounds like an argument tailored to suit the consensus narrative on Bart, which is p scummy. 

There are a lot of things wrong with this

First of all you say I fit the bill of someone making safe votes, yet I haven't voted anyone yet. This means that you probably didn't iso me, and just assumed that I must have voted somewhere.

Second of all,  according to you, town should want to be more proactive in their approach and solve the game, so why didn't you iso me? I'll argue that failing to iso me and instead voting me based off of something I said is instead reactive play.

Third, there was no 'consensus narrative' on Bart when I was posting, both in terms of where I was replying to the thread and really in general

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3 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

You should totally sheep my case on ichigo, his content doesn't push the game state forward as town, easily fakeable as mafia and is exactly what I'd expect mafia to do at this point of the game. 

But it is, objectively, incorrect?

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51 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

My "agenda" would be getting things going so people post serious content to analyze? Super scummy, you're right.

Do I need to mention this is sarcasm?

Funny (Do I need to mention this is sarcasm?), but the agenda would be to get other players scumread, to get the snowball rolling, I think you understand where I'm coming from so acting like you're oblivious is not helpful

1 hour ago, Vi-astra said:

hmmm weiner feels kinda coasty what do you guys think..............

I think he doesn't feel coasty

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Okay, so lets see here:

Town(lean):

Via is town.

Marth felt a bit stuck at first, but he got moving and it's looking good now. Town lean here.

Sully I explained in my post above as a town lean.

If I take into account Amy is bad at commiting to reads, her last post looks pretty good.

Null:

Refa's posts looked good, and while they're not standout'ish (me and Amy were the easiest people to suspect at that point I feel), I don't see a good reason to suspect/lynch him here.

Shinori's content so far was fine, can't really blame him for going after Marth at that point in time. Not enough game relevant content that I can't just see scumnori faking it though.

With Weiner I can see his logic, which is good, but his play does feel a bit stand-offish and non-commital.

Xnad is basicly Weiner with less content for me here, honestly.

scum(lean):

Athena I'm at this point where I like his thoughts and progression on me (might be a bit biased there), but his content outside of that feels a bit lackluster. I guess that's somewhat understandable with me just being the main topic this phase apparently, but it still gives me bad vibes.

With Claire I'm like... on one hand I've seen her BS scumreads onto people before, and her read on me feels like that, but on the other hand there's enough people sheeping it that I'm like... they can't be all scum, so am I just wrong about how obvious the BS is? Add the fact that I don't mind her defence but really don't get why people hard townread her for it, and this makes for a really frustrating slot.

Rads only real content was sheeping Claire's vote on me and not being convinced when Athena brought stuff up. The later part isn't an issue on it's own, but the lack of content and safe vote here is.

Dunn is basicly Rad, but with even less content. I guess there's his comment about Marth being scummy for not iso'ing him properly now but.... am I even supposed to count that?

##Unvote

##Vote: @Ichigo

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28 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

Funny (Do I need to mention this is sarcasm?), but the agenda would be to get other players scumread, to get the snowball rolling, I think you understand where I'm coming from so acting like you're oblivious is not helpful

Uhm... right.. you caught my master plan of getting everyone to lynch someone who hadn't posted any serious content yet... because I totally believed that would work...

Sorry, I just really don't know how to respond seriously to this.

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6 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Hmm at this point since the narrative is a scum!Bart tunnel I'd expect scum to add fuel to the fire while maintaining a low presence/making safe votes. I'm confident in my town read on Bart for now so, 

##unvote ##vote: @Ichigo

 

You fit the bill!  Also you've got your evidence wrong, 

No he didn't, he voted amph for what he perceived to be a shady vote on Claire and then sheeped amph's vote when he got her explanation.  This sounds like an argument tailored to suit the consensus narrative on Bart, which is p scummy. 

 

You've got your evidence wrong. Bart's vote on Any wasn't reasonable at all, it was pure RVS. Look at the timestamps if you have to. There wasn't any reasoning behind it, he was just joking. 

4 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

Why is via locktown?

Have you played with Via before?

3 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

shinori is the biggest null in the game for me right now LMAO

##vote:  XnadrojX 

@SullyMcGully can you explain why you think this dude is town? cuz I'm not really seeing it ATM.

I read whole thread and I'm ready to go retreat into my cave now. until next time fellow water breathers

Because he started pushing a case without reading the entire thread. It's weak, but I feel like scum would have been better informed. That's all that really stood out to me on my first readthrough. 

3 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

What about Sully's scumread on you?

I thought I said this: I don't have a "scumread" on Marth. At least not yet. Marth is super annoying to read in these games even as town. Their latest posts aren't quite showing the logic and conviction I was hoping for.

Bart made a big post mostly addressed to me. I won't have time to address that for a while. I guess as my final thoughts for the next 12+ hours: 

I think this kind of reactive behavior could easily be townie Bart, seeing his N1 mislynch looming again. But if he's scared of getting mislynched, then why is he so confident at first? And Bart's main argument right now is "do you really think I'm that stupid?" I mean, what if I do? What if you are that stupid?

I don't feel like the wagon on Bart is entirely scum-motivated, and I don't feel like the people who are scumreading Bart are tunneling him. People are keeping other reads open. A good many of you need to stop trying to make this out to be the entire game hating on a single poor player and accept that Bart's behavior has raised valid concerns that need addressing. It makes sense to be paranoid about mislynching Bart given his record but stop making it out to be some kind of scum agenda being the only reason he's under pressure.

Overall, I feel better about Bart but some things are still nagging me + some player's defenses of Bart have been very weak and lack town motivation. 

I'll take a look at some other people whenever I get done with my other obligations today. I just wanted to reply to the stuff directed at me for now.

 

 

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